It makes very little sense to release an expensive Elite Series 3 so late in the generation that will (hopefully) be superseded by a controller with many more features next gen.
The exclusives don't make sense right now, but they have acknowledged that, but said they have a plan they just can't share it yet. I'll hold them to that.
As for older games, more than anything I just want Dishonored 2 at 60fps on my Xbox - it's the only one in the series not to be at that on Xbox. I don't care if it's backwards compatibility, smart delivery or a paid upgrade, just make it happen.
This was all very obvious, but it's always nice to have it confirmed regardless. Xbox wouldn't lower the prices of Game Pass out of the goodness in their hearts, it's because they priced it too high, and that backfired when too many cancelled. It was bad for business. The market ultimately decides.
Auto SR currently has some pros and cons. The biggest pros are:
it runs on a separate Neural Processing Unit (NPU) meaning it doesn't really affect GPU frame time in the same way that most AI/ML upscalers do.
as a post process filter it can run on any game old or new.
The cons however are quite large
as a post process filter it doesn't use motion vectors and other data from engines to improve frame clarity, this leads to more shimmering, more blur and more motion trails.
It typically over sharpens the image, especially text / UI
TLDR: Typically this all means that Auto SR's image clarity is considerably worse and a large downgrade over current top-end AI/ML upscalers.
Where it has an advantage is with older titles and backwards compatibility as it can run on any game / image.
FYI according to leaks Helix has a large NPU so it will be interesting to see what they do with this. I am sure Auto SR will be updated, but it is fundamentally a little different to things like DLSS, FSR or PSSR and I think the performance ceiling is more limited.
I think they will possibly use both Auto SR for older titles, and Custom FSR, or their own upscaling tech, for new ones.
@ilyn THIS! People assume many of the scalpers aren't just opportunist Xbox players. Limiting it to Xbox accounts would help, but it's still going to get scalped by Xbox fans. For some, any way to turn a quick profit is fine, especially when cost of living is making things tight.
I look forward to seeing what they do here, but just 2 games initially is about as token an effort as they could have managed.
But it also makes sense considering Xbox's current market share. Hopefully we don't see the closure of studios off the back of this if, for example, Clockwork Revolution doesn't sell or Blade (or whatever game is next exclusive) fails to hit targets, that would be a disaster.
@MaccaMUFC I don't think anyone is expecting all the games to go exclusive, but to announce around 10-12 first party games or updates and only make 2 exclusive, one this year one undated for 2027 seems a bit token imo.
They also haven't made their reasoning clear at all with Booty saying big multiplayer live services will go multiplatform on the same day they announce Gears won't be.
Poor messaging even if i'm happy to see some exclusives.
@TheSimulator Maybe… but the point is it isn’t clear at all, breaking the rules they just set with the very first announcement.
Honestly it feels to me like they just plucked a couple of games out to try and appease Xbox fans clamouring for exclusives. But as a fan their approach isn’t clear at all.
I also don’t think those two exclusives are going to make much difference to market share (which is the point of exclusives). They might sell a few more units but will it noticeably shift the needle. Highly doubtful imo? It feels more a PR exercise to try and appease fans for a year or so, buy some time until Helix, rather than an actual workable strategy to turn things around.
@Banjo- I appreciate your positivity but I don’t think it’s clear at all. They say “our big multiplayer games and live service games are going to continue to be multiplatform” so why is Gears exclusive, is it not big, multiplayer or live service? They’re already breaking their own rules.
Additionally they announced single player games like Senua and Spyro as multiplatform; plus announced platforms for State of Decay 3 that’s on PS5 and other platforms. It still feels scattergun, case-by-case basis and seems like most will be multiplatform to me.
@BacklogBrad as influencers they are often the ones that complain loudly and are heard by many others when they do, that’s what makes it an easy PR win. Asha is getting the influencers back onside including returning fan fest in the first place. Smart PR move.
Was pretty disappointed by Hellbalde 2, though I still enjoyed it, as it was a step down in almost all areas except graphics on the first game. Hopefully this is better, especially gameplay.
@BacklogBrad Free Limited edition Xbox 25 year consoles for those people. It’s an easy PR win that will win a lot of positive engagement from some of their core fans
Will be interesting to see how Xbox handles exclusives over time. So far it’s 2, not world changing, and not enough to buy an Xbox specifically for, but it’s a start.
2 console exclusives is cool, but it’s only 2 so far and around 10 first party games in the show weren’t. Will be interesting to see how they navigate this as time goes on. But sensible to start again!
Solid 9 out of 10. Missing perhaps an exciting new first party announcement*, it was mostly things we already knew about, and ending with COD was weak AF.
(* Senua didn’t get me all that excited after Hellblade 2)
I don't know what level, I uninstalled it. It's undeniably a well made game but it just feels like I have played it before multiple times. Once the novelty of the Japan may wears off it's just the same game reskinned. Glad others are enjoying it more, it's just not for me.
B+ there were a lot of games I was interested in but nothing new that really made me really excited. Few too many slated for "2027"' or just "In development" too
It may not be popular but she’s absolutely right, it isn’t an easy decision and really has to be on a case by case basis for now. Xbox has too many studios and spends too much on them to have all those games as exclusives, they simply won’t see a return on investment.
Outside of COD, Minecraft and Forza, I don’t think there is anything that really needs to be available on the PlayStation
I see your point… but you could also argue it the other way, that Forza (for example) makes enough money as an Xbox (incl. PC) exclusive so doesn’t need to be multiplatform, whereas the other games are not making a profit, or enough of a profit, on Xbox platforms alone and therefore need to sell on multiple platforms just to be financially viable.
If the games don’t make enough money on Xbox platforms alone what will they do? Shrink the scope to make them smaller, not build those games at all, or close studios? Do gamers actually want that?
I do wonder about everyone avoiding GTA6, months like September, October and February already stacked with so many games. Might some do better in November, not everyone likes or plays GTA.
It was a good show, not the best, but plenty of single player games I want to play.
Biggest complaints were not enough new games announced, and GoW: Faufey, which though it looked excellent, was only “in production”, no date not even 2027.
Still a LOT of games I want to play and most will be available to play soon. That’s enough to keep me more than happy.
Oof! I'd be pissed off. We should be past this. Why aren't there backups? Virtually every game does this nowadays, if your existing save is corrupted for any reason there should be backup saves.
Looking forward to seeing what the campaign is like, and what The Coalition have pulled off with UE5 after so long in development.
As @Skinny-Pete said, hoping for more of a return to Gears of War of old in tone as the recent ones have been a step back, but could also do with a bit of refresh in terms of gameplay which is tired imo
Sounds like sensible upgrades, the smaller screen and IPS panel came up as cons in several reviews and they seem to have addressed some of the other failings.
I wonder how much it will cost? Rog Allly X is already $1000, Xreal R1's are $750, perhaps $2k total? Cool tech, but very pricey.
The main difference is Xbox is (for now at least) primarily a multi-platform publisher, Nintendo and PS are not. Hence it makes more sense to have logos on their videos. But it would be nice if the others did the few times their games are day 1 on other platforms.
Yes I feel more positive, but Game Pass price cut aside which was a business necessity, it's all been very small incremental changes most of which should have been done years ago. They haven't actually done anything else truly meaningful yet.
Changing Xbox to XBOX, refreshing logos, adding QoL features to the dashboard, being far better with communication etc. these things are all nice, but they don't fundamentally change much.
Yet there is more optimism, and I am looking forward to seeing how it plays out over time with the larger things that do matter.
Not unexpected at all - we were speculating on this earlier in the week - just make the game great.
However I do wonder how many games will be pushed to February to avoid GTA6, you might dodge one massive game and end up landing in a veritable pile of them.
@Sol4ris The 2 big ones are larger GDDR7 memory allocation - super expensive stuff right now - and a MUCH larger die size of 408mm2 on Helix vs PS6's more modest 280mm2, which is in fact smaller than launch PS5 die (again showing Sony were trying to keep costs down with AMD).
It's a little hard to explain how die size affects the costs, it's all a bit techy, but I'll try! They are all made on a circular silicon wafer (typically 12" and costing around $20k+ each), the larger the die size the fewer rectangular dies you can fit on each wafer, and the more you lose to lost space and defective dies.
As a visual perhaps imagine two 12" circular bits of pastry and you have a smaller (PS6) and a larger (Helix) rectangular cutter which you use on each to cut out as many as possible from their circle. Not only will you cut out fewer with the larger cutter but you will also lose a lot more excess pastry from the sides (aka edge loss). This drastically ramps up production costs.
The Helix die is 45% larger, but on a wafer you might perhaps be able to get around 50% or more PS6 dies per wafer, making it significantly cheaper to produce. As this is one of the most expensive parts of the system that has a large effect on the final price.
Additionally yields have an effect on cost, typically it's between 50-80% for 3nm process node (i.e. 20% - 50% of the produced chips are unusable) so if one has a much higher yield than the other this will also drastically affect costs. But the larger the die size the lower the yields, in fact this is typically exponential, so a 45% larger die actually has a much lower yield which will raise costs for Helix. It all adds up.
Microsoft were aiming for something special with Helix, but the timing with elevated prices couldn't be any worse, any global production cost increases will affect them worse and make Helix look even more expensive by comparison.
@Exerion76 It's not JUST AI, it's rising costs of materials, manufacture, distribution and more due to world events like wars. The price of oil also affects just about everything. Yes AI is a big part of it, and an easy scapegoat, but prices would be massively up without AI.
@Weebleman @GoldenPants Won't make you feel any better but Western Digital's stock has gone up over 4000% in the last year, though this is an outlier, most like TSMC have "only" gone up 150% - 500% 💀
@Sol4ris Long post alert, but you asked the question, and it requires a longer answer. (also tagged @abe_hikura)
If the leaked specs and docs from both Kepler_L2 and Moore's Law is Dead (MLID) are accurate then Helix and PS6 had slightly different design philosophies. (Considering their accurate history with AMD leaks, considering it's both of them and they match, then there's little reason to doubt the leaks imo, though they could be outdated).
So what was the difference? Helix was aiming to be a super high-end PC-console hybrid, whereas PS6 was aiming to be a tier below and specifically according to the AMD documents was designed to be more affordable. Of course with rising parts prices, increased tariffs and other logistical costs increases it's never going to be be considered "affordable" anymore - unless world events change rapidly - but PS6 should still be cheaper.
Based on those specs the Bill of Materials (BOM) cost for Helix was initially estimated to be around $150 - $200+ more than PS6 - primarily based on it's monstrous 408mm2 die and larger VRAM allocation - but that was before price hikes, increased tariffs and other rising costs, it would be wider now.
People are also speculating that if you can just install Steam, Epic games on Helix and forego the Xbox store entirely then Microsoft will potentially lose some revenue from games on the platform which means they likely can't subsidise it as much as Sony, as they may never see that return on investment.
When you add all that together it really doesn't look great for Helix pricing - it's the worst time to sell a super high-end console. The chipsets are locked and likely can't be changed this late in the game without incurring massive costs, so what can they feasibly change to actually reduce costs:
VRAM allocation
SSD storage size
Box parts / materials and other smaller parts changes
You can reduce the amount of VRAM, and considering the sky-high costs both Microsoft and Sony will go with the lowest in the window they designed for, but for Helix that was still more. It's worth noting the whole system will have been designed and balanced around a minimum VRAM allocation if you go too low you will just bottleneck the system and will be wasting money elsewhere, so that isn't all that advisable either... but could perhaps be a possibility considering how crazy expensive high performance RAM is.
They will also go with a tiny SSD to keep costs down, at least on a base model. The other possible cost savings are pretty insignificant compared to these right now.
TLDR: When you look at all that, and assuming the leaks are accurate, it's hard to see Helix being in the same price bracket as PS6. Considering the constant fluctuations of parts prices and other costs it would be a foolish to put an exact number on it today, but it doesn't look good in terms of cost, especially when comparing specs.
The upside is Helix should be significantly more powerful than PS6, whereas this gen it's only really on paper, we haven't really seen it in reality. MLID has Helix at around +25% faster on paper... however with diminishing returns, with AI upscaling and framegen becoming more and more pivotal will that actually be worth it, or all that noticeable, especially on 4K up to 120Hz displays? Only time will tell.
I'm honestly considering selling my Steam Deck OLED. It's a great bit of kit, but I just don't use it enough, and CEX are offering the same as I paid for it at launch.
I noticed this last night. Fable and Clockwork Revolution are the two I am most looking forward to from Xbox. Looking forward to playing Final Fantasy VI pixel remaster this month too.
@LaurenceJ1987 yep, saw that, though there’s always a chance a game gets delayed I agree the signs are strong it will be this year, probably sooner rather than later 🤞
@Fiendish-Beaver I have no idea how far along they are, could they not launch in August or October? (September seems busy!) If GTA6 isn't coming out till Nov 19th there's still time before. But I agree you wouldn't want to be in November or December, better to delay it. I suspect we don't have long to wait to find out.
@Fiendish-Beaver They just reiterated that it was coming this year on 19th November in an earnings call, so it seems pretty likely it will hit that date. The closer we get the less likely it will be delayed, it will likely have one of the largest marketing campaigns we've ever seen and these are often arranged months and months in advance.
Comments 8,931
Re: Three Questions We Still Have After The Incredible Xbox Games Showcase 2026
It makes very little sense to release an expensive Elite Series 3 so late in the generation that will (hopefully) be superseded by a controller with many more features next gen.
The exclusives don't make sense right now, but they have acknowledged that, but said they have a plan they just can't share it yet. I'll hold them to that.
As for older games, more than anything I just want Dishonored 2 at 60fps on my Xbox - it's the only one in the series not to be at that on Xbox. I don't care if it's backwards compatibility, smart delivery or a paid upgrade, just make it happen.
Re: Xbox Game Pass Lost 'Millions' Of Subscribers Following October 2025 Price Increase
This was all very obvious, but it's always nice to have it confirmed regardless. Xbox wouldn't lower the prices of Game Pass out of the goodness in their hearts, it's because they priced it too high, and that backfired when too many cancelled. It was bad for business. The market ultimately decides.
Re: Xbox CSO Says Console Demand Is Outstripping Supply Amidst A 'Crisis' For Component Prices
@AverageGamer @datamonkey @DesertRanger
Auto SR currently has some pros and cons. The biggest pros are:
The cons however are quite large
TLDR: Typically this all means that Auto SR's image clarity is considerably worse and a large downgrade over current top-end AI/ML upscalers.
Where it has an advantage is with older titles and backwards compatibility as it can run on any game / image.
FYI according to leaks Helix has a large NPU so it will be interesting to see what they do with this. I am sure Auto SR will be updated, but it is fundamentally a little different to things like DLSS, FSR or PSSR and I think the performance ceiling is more limited.
I think they will possibly use both Auto SR for older titles, and Custom FSR, or their own upscaling tech, for new ones.
Re: Microsoft Aims To Ensure Scalpers Don't Ruin Xbox Series X25 Release
@ilyn THIS! People assume many of the scalpers aren't just opportunist Xbox players. Limiting it to Xbox accounts would help, but it's still going to get scalped by Xbox fans. For some, any way to turn a quick profit is fine, especially when cost of living is making things tight.
Re: Roundup: 10 Of The Best Xbox Announcements We Saw At IGN Live 2026
Hopefully Moss translates well from VR as it was an adorable little adventure.
Re: Here's What Might Leave Xbox Game Pass In July 2026
Always appreciate these lists. You've saved me a few times in the past, Xbox often leaves it too late.
Re: 'It Doesn't End With Gears & Clockwork' - Xbox Reporter Teases More Console Exclusives
I look forward to seeing what they do here, but just 2 games initially is about as token an effort as they could have managed.
But it also makes sense considering Xbox's current market share. Hopefully we don't see the closure of studios off the back of this if, for example, Clockwork Revolution doesn't sell or Blade (or whatever game is next exclusive) fails to hit targets, that would be a disaster.
Re: Matt Booty Explains Xbox's Plans For Exclusive Games Going Forward
@MaccaMUFC I don't think anyone is expecting all the games to go exclusive, but to announce around 10-12 first party games or updates and only make 2 exclusive, one this year one undated for 2027 seems a bit token imo.
They also haven't made their reasoning clear at all with Booty saying big multiplayer live services will go multiplatform on the same day they announce Gears won't be.
Poor messaging even if i'm happy to see some exclusives.
Re: Fable Reappears At Xbox Showcase With Confirmed February 2027 Release Date
Brilliant showing, really looking forward to it, but it's also 8+ months away.
Re: Persona Dominates The Early Viewing Figures Following Xbox Games Showcase 2026
Kinda bizarre as the P6 video is basically a splash screen stretched out to a minute and a half. Nothing to see here.
Still cool its announced and coming to Game Pass Day 1.
Re: Matt Booty Explains Xbox's Plans For Exclusive Games Going Forward
@TheSimulator Maybe… but the point is it isn’t clear at all, breaking the rules they just set with the very first announcement.
Honestly it feels to me like they just plucked a couple of games out to try and appease Xbox fans clamouring for exclusives. But as a fan their approach isn’t clear at all.
I also don’t think those two exclusives are going to make much difference to market share (which is the point of exclusives). They might sell a few more units but will it noticeably shift the needle. Highly doubtful imo? It feels more a PR exercise to try and appease fans for a year or so, buy some time until Helix, rather than an actual workable strategy to turn things around.
Re: Matt Booty Explains Xbox's Plans For Exclusive Games Going Forward
@Banjo- I appreciate your positivity but I don’t think it’s clear at all. They say “our big multiplayer games and live service games are going to continue to be multiplatform” so why is Gears exclusive, is it not big, multiplayer or live service? They’re already breaking their own rules.
Additionally they announced single player games like Senua and Spyro as multiplatform; plus announced platforms for State of Decay 3 that’s on PS5 and other platforms. It still feels scattergun, case-by-case basis and seems like most will be multiplatform to me.
But it’s a start.
Re: Gears Of War: E-Day Releases October 2026, And It's An Xbox Console Exclusive
@PieGutz most games have a toggle for this to only play against those on your platform
Re: Xbox Fans Go Wild As Asha Sharma Gives Free Consoles To Everyone At FanFest LA
@BacklogBrad as influencers they are often the ones that complain loudly and are heard by many others when they do, that’s what makes it an easy PR win. Asha is getting the influencers back onside including returning fan fest in the first place. Smart PR move.
Re: Senua Brings A 'Different Kind' Of Hellblade Game To Xbox Game Pass In 2027
Was pretty disappointed by Hellbalde 2, though I still enjoyed it, as it was a step down in almost all areas except graphics on the first game. Hopefully this is better, especially gameplay.
Re: 21 Game Pass Titles Get New Announcements At The Xbox Showcase 2026
Great show for Game Pass subscribers, plenty of games I was interested in had the GP logo.
Re: Xbox Fans Go Wild As Asha Sharma Gives Free Consoles To Everyone At FanFest LA
@BacklogBrad Free Limited edition Xbox 25 year consoles for those people. It’s an easy PR win that will win a lot of positive engagement from some of their core fans
Re: Gears Of War: E-Day Releases October 2026, And It's An Xbox Console Exclusive
Will be interesting to see how Xbox handles exclusives over time. So far it’s 2, not world changing, and not enough to buy an Xbox specifically for, but it’s a start.
Re: Xbox First-Party Title 'Clockwork Revolution' Is Yet Another Console Exclusive
2 console exclusives is cool, but it’s only 2 so far and around 10 first party games in the show weren’t. Will be interesting to see how they navigate this as time goes on. But sensible to start again!
Re: Poll: How Would You Grade The Xbox Games Showcase 2026?
Solid 9 out of 10. Missing perhaps an exciting new first party announcement*, it was mostly things we already knew about, and ending with COD was weak AF.
(* Senua didn’t get me all that excited after Hellblade 2)
Re: Talking Point: What Level Are You In Forza Horizon 6, And How Many Cars Do You Have?
I don't know what level, I uninstalled it. It's undeniably a well made game but it just feels like I have played it before multiple times. Once the novelty of the Japan may wears off it's just the same game reskinned. Glad others are enjoying it more, it's just not for me.
Re: Final Fantasy VII Revelation Announced By Square Enix, Xbox Release On Day One
Awesome it's coming to all platforms Day 1
Re: Poll: How Would You Grade The Summer Game Fest 2026 Showcase?
B+ there were a lot of games I was interested in but nothing new that really made me really excited. Few too many slated for "2027"' or just "In development" too
Re: 'It's A Tough Topic' - Xbox CEO Shares Her Latest Thoughts On Exclusives
It may not be popular but she’s absolutely right, it isn’t an easy decision and really has to be on a case by case basis for now. Xbox has too many studios and spends too much on them to have all those games as exclusives, they simply won’t see a return on investment.
Re: 'It's A Tough Topic' - Xbox CEO Shares Her Latest Thoughts On Exclusives
Camble_Refuge wrote:
I see your point… but you could also argue it the other way, that Forza (for example) makes enough money as an Xbox (incl. PC) exclusive so doesn’t need to be multiplatform, whereas the other games are not making a profit, or enough of a profit, on Xbox platforms alone and therefore need to sell on multiple platforms just to be financially viable.
If the games don’t make enough money on Xbox platforms alone what will they do? Shrink the scope to make them smaller, not build those games at all, or close studios? Do gamers actually want that?
Re: Five New 'Xbox Player Voice' Requests That Have Been Trending Over The Past Week
@Skinny-Pete a poor far cry at that. There wasn’t anything interesting in the open world and basically it all looked the same everywhere.
Re: Xbox's CCO Might Have Just Revealed The First-Party Order For Late 2026
I do wonder about everyone avoiding GTA6, months like September, October and February already stacked with so many games. Might some do better in November, not everyone likes or plays GTA.
Re: Stuntman: Hollywood Is Reviving A Series That Hasn't Existed Since The Xbox 360 Era
Loved the tie ins Knight Rider, Back to the Future etc. hopefully this is more than a token inclusion.
Re: Roundup: All The Biggest Xbox Reveals From June's State Of Play
It was a good show, not the best, but plenty of single player games I want to play.
Biggest complaints were not enough new games announced, and GoW: Faufey, which though it looked excellent, was only “in production”, no date not even 2027.
Still a LOT of games I want to play and most will be available to play soon. That’s enough to keep me more than happy.
Re: 'Lost 255 Hours Of Progress' - Forza Horizon 6 Players Warn Of Xbox & PC Saving Issue
Oof! I'd be pissed off. We should be past this. Why aren't there backups? Virtually every game does this nowadays, if your existing save is corrupted for any reason there should be backup saves.
Re: 'My Favourite We've Ever Done' - Xbox Employee Hypes Up Gears Of War: E-Day Direct
Looking forward to seeing what the campaign is like, and what The Coalition have pulled off with UE5 after so long in development.
As @Skinny-Pete said, hoping for more of a return to Gears of War of old in tone as the recent ones have been a step back, but could also do with a bit of refresh in terms of gameplay which is tired imo
Re: Here's What The First 'Hands On' Previews Say About The ROG Xbox Ally X20
Sounds like sensible upgrades, the smaller screen and IPS panel came up as cons in several reviews and they seem to have addressed some of the other failings.
I wonder how much it will cost? Rog Allly X is already $1000, Xreal R1's are $750, perhaps $2k total? Cool tech, but very pricey.
Re: 'It Was A Miss, And I Own It' - Xbox CEO Hints At Removing PS5 & Switch Logos From Showcases
The main difference is Xbox is (for now at least) primarily a multi-platform publisher, Nintendo and PS are not. Hence it makes more sense to have logos on their videos. But it would be nice if the others did the few times their games are day 1 on other platforms.
Re: Xbox Is Gaining Momentum With US Gamers, As Highlighted In New YouGov Report
Yes I feel more positive, but Game Pass price cut aside which was a business necessity, it's all been very small incremental changes most of which should have been done years ago. They haven't actually done anything else truly meaningful yet.
Changing Xbox to XBOX, refreshing logos, adding QoL features to the dashboard, being far better with communication etc. these things are all nice, but they don't fundamentally change much.
Yet there is more optimism, and I am looking forward to seeing how it plays out over time with the larger things that do matter.
Re: Xbox Delays Fable To February 2027, And It's Basically Because Of GTA 6
Not unexpected at all - we were speculating on this earlier in the week - just make the game great.
However I do wonder how many games will be pushed to February to avoid GTA6, you might dodge one massive game and end up landing in a veritable pile of them.
Re: Matt Booty Explains Why Xbox Won't Talk About Project Helix At June's Showcase
If it’s not this year, or early next, they really shouldn’t talk about it.
However what makes it a bit awkward is they heave been skirting around it for months.
Re: Steam Deck Has Gone Up In Price Massively, And It Makes ROG Xbox Ally Look Great Value In 2026
@Sol4ris The 2 big ones are larger GDDR7 memory allocation - super expensive stuff right now - and a MUCH larger die size of 408mm2 on Helix vs PS6's more modest 280mm2, which is in fact smaller than launch PS5 die (again showing Sony were trying to keep costs down with AMD).
It's a little hard to explain how die size affects the costs, it's all a bit techy, but I'll try! They are all made on a circular silicon wafer (typically 12" and costing around $20k+ each), the larger the die size the fewer rectangular dies you can fit on each wafer, and the more you lose to lost space and defective dies.
As a visual perhaps imagine two 12" circular bits of pastry and you have a smaller (PS6) and a larger (Helix) rectangular cutter which you use on each to cut out as many as possible from their circle. Not only will you cut out fewer with the larger cutter but you will also lose a lot more excess pastry from the sides (aka edge loss). This drastically ramps up production costs.
The Helix die is 45% larger, but on a wafer you might perhaps be able to get around 50% or more PS6 dies per wafer, making it significantly cheaper to produce. As this is one of the most expensive parts of the system that has a large effect on the final price.
Additionally yields have an effect on cost, typically it's between 50-80% for 3nm process node (i.e. 20% - 50% of the produced chips are unusable) so if one has a much higher yield than the other this will also drastically affect costs. But the larger the die size the lower the yields, in fact this is typically exponential, so a 45% larger die actually has a much lower yield which will raise costs for Helix. It all adds up.
Microsoft were aiming for something special with Helix, but the timing with elevated prices couldn't be any worse, any global production cost increases will affect them worse and make Helix look even more expensive by comparison.
Re: Steam Deck Has Gone Up In Price Massively, And It Makes ROG Xbox Ally Look Great Value In 2026
@Exerion76 It's not JUST AI, it's rising costs of materials, manufacture, distribution and more due to world events like wars. The price of oil also affects just about everything. Yes AI is a big part of it, and an easy scapegoat, but prices would be massively up without AI.
Re: Steam Deck Has Gone Up In Price Massively, And It Makes ROG Xbox Ally Look Great Value In 2026
@Weebleman @GoldenPants Won't make you feel any better but Western Digital's stock has gone up over 4000% in the last year, though this is an outlier, most like TSMC have "only" gone up 150% - 500% 💀
Re: Steam Deck Has Gone Up In Price Massively, And It Makes ROG Xbox Ally Look Great Value In 2026
@Sol4ris Long post alert, but you asked the question, and it requires a longer answer. (also tagged @abe_hikura)
If the leaked specs and docs from both Kepler_L2 and Moore's Law is Dead (MLID) are accurate then Helix and PS6 had slightly different design philosophies. (Considering their accurate history with AMD leaks, considering it's both of them and they match, then there's little reason to doubt the leaks imo, though they could be outdated).
So what was the difference? Helix was aiming to be a super high-end PC-console hybrid, whereas PS6 was aiming to be a tier below and specifically according to the AMD documents was designed to be more affordable. Of course with rising parts prices, increased tariffs and other logistical costs increases it's never going to be be considered "affordable" anymore - unless world events change rapidly - but PS6 should still be cheaper.
Based on those specs the Bill of Materials (BOM) cost for Helix was initially estimated to be around $150 - $200+ more than PS6 - primarily based on it's monstrous 408mm2 die and larger VRAM allocation - but that was before price hikes, increased tariffs and other rising costs, it would be wider now.
People are also speculating that if you can just install Steam, Epic games on Helix and forego the Xbox store entirely then Microsoft will potentially lose some revenue from games on the platform which means they likely can't subsidise it as much as Sony, as they may never see that return on investment.
When you add all that together it really doesn't look great for Helix pricing - it's the worst time to sell a super high-end console. The chipsets are locked and likely can't be changed this late in the game without incurring massive costs, so what can they feasibly change to actually reduce costs:
You can reduce the amount of VRAM, and considering the sky-high costs both Microsoft and Sony will go with the lowest in the window they designed for, but for Helix that was still more. It's worth noting the whole system will have been designed and balanced around a minimum VRAM allocation if you go too low you will just bottleneck the system and will be wasting money elsewhere, so that isn't all that advisable either... but could perhaps be a possibility considering how crazy expensive high performance RAM is.
They will also go with a tiny SSD to keep costs down, at least on a base model. The other possible cost savings are pretty insignificant compared to these right now.
TLDR: When you look at all that, and assuming the leaks are accurate, it's hard to see Helix being in the same price bracket as PS6. Considering the constant fluctuations of parts prices and other costs it would be a foolish to put an exact number on it today, but it doesn't look good in terms of cost, especially when comparing specs.
The upside is Helix should be significantly more powerful than PS6, whereas this gen it's only really on paper, we haven't really seen it in reality. MLID has Helix at around +25% faster on paper... however with diminishing returns, with AI upscaling and framegen becoming more and more pivotal will that actually be worth it, or all that noticeable, especially on 4K up to 120Hz displays? Only time will tell.
I'd welcome your thoughts.
Re: Steam Deck Has Gone Up In Price Massively, And It Makes ROG Xbox Ally Look Great Value In 2026
I'm honestly considering selling my Steam Deck OLED. It's a great bit of kit, but I just don't use it enough, and CEX are offering the same as I paid for it at launch.
Re: Microsoft Changes Game Pass Font To Match New Xbox Logo
GAME PASS. ALL CAPS NECESSARY
Jokes aside it does look more refined than the old logo pyramid.
Re: The Outer Worlds Dev Alters Free Xbox & PS5 Upgrade Due To 'Platform Limitations'
And we call it... "Smart Delivery". /jk
Re: 8BitDo Unveils New 'Pro-Level' Xbox Wireless Controller Built For 'Serious Players'
Looks cool but far too late in the generation for me.
Re: Is Forza Horizon 6 About To Get Some Competition? Former Director Plots New Racing Game Reveal Next Week
I assumed it was cancelled with the loss of Amazon funding. Hopefully they can make something work.
Re: Lots Of Highly-Anticipated Xbox Titles Added To 'Coming Soon' On Game Pass App
I noticed this last night. Fable and Clockwork Revolution are the two I am most looking forward to from Xbox. Looking forward to playing Final Fantasy VI pixel remaster this month too.
Re: Mina The Hollower Hits Xbox This Week, And It's Metacritic's 'Best Game' Of 2026 So Far
Looking forward to it. I'll get to it eventually, but too much to play already.
Re: Xbox Racks Up 37 Million Views With A Single Post About GTA 6
@LaurenceJ1987 yep, saw that, though there’s always a chance a game gets delayed I agree the signs are strong it will be this year, probably sooner rather than later 🤞
Re: Xbox Racks Up 37 Million Views With A Single Post About GTA 6
@Fiendish-Beaver I have no idea how far along they are, could they not launch in August or October? (September seems busy!) If GTA6 isn't coming out till Nov 19th there's still time before. But I agree you wouldn't want to be in November or December, better to delay it. I suspect we don't have long to wait to find out.
Re: Xbox Racks Up 37 Million Views With A Single Post About GTA 6
@Fiendish-Beaver They just reiterated that it was coming this year on 19th November in an earnings call, so it seems pretty likely it will hit that date. The closer we get the less likely it will be delayed, it will likely have one of the largest marketing campaigns we've ever seen and these are often arranged months and months in advance.