As a decent human and lover of games he’ll be missed, and I’ll always appreciate what he did bringing Xbox back from the brink, as well as championing things like backwards compatibility, cross play and play anywhere that have made the entire industry better.
But at the same time it was time for a change, the last few years have been mostly rough for Xbox as a brand.
To be honest seeing this list makes me feel they’ve down a pretty good job with the games they have added. There are a lot of licensed games there like Spider-man, Transformers, 007 that sadly will likely never come unless someone makes it their mission to convince all parties. (Fingers crossed)
I’m not usually a huge fan of re-releasing racing games as they usually age pretty badly, I suspect a lot of people wanting Project Gotham might play it once or twice for nostalgia, then realise that it’s not as great as they remember anymore, time and games have moved on. I’d make an exception for Burnout takedown though.
@Balaam_ People often say this but for me around 80% - 90% of the games I play I know I will never play again so what’s the point of owning it. I can’t even remotely keep up with up all the NEW releases so what chance is there to replay most games.
For the few games I think I might want to keep playing I either buy, there is still that option, or play on game pass and buy much later when it’s in a bargain basement sale.
At the end of the day I think ownership is overrated. But we all play differently.
@Gemini53 Jez Corden (not that I think he’s very accurate all that often, but he’s not bad on Xbox news) suggested that there may only be one official Xbox but they will allow OEMs like ASUS to also build them to different specs. Effectively prebuilt pcs probably with a custom hardware layer to make them an “Xbox” this is another solution. I’m just not sure if they will want to ONLY go the premium user route. That doesn’t make sense to me.
@UnlimitedSevens I think you are 100% right. I have no doubt this will be a very niche device. Microsoft EITHER:
Know that and don't care moving to a premium user model only
OR will release a lower spec model too. Remember we knew nothing about Series S until it announced.
But it just so happens I am in that target demographic. I need to rebuild my PC rig, but i'd prefer to play on console and would happily pay for a powerful under the TV PC with a more console like experience. In a perfect world this would have been the Steam Machine but their weak specs, slower than current gen, left me cold.
However it's not a lock yet. It depends on what the ACTUAL specs, price and feature set are. Seeing how Microsoft have done business for the last few years i'm sure they'll find SOME way to EFF it up. But fingers crossed they don't.
Unless there is a cheaper option it will be niche.
It just happens I might be in that niche, but I don't think it will sell well... at all, if the price is as high as we fear.
While it's true there are a LOT of games that only release on PC that is a little deceptive because most of these are exceptionally small or niche games that aren't going to convince many console players to switch to PC, especially from PS5 or Switch 2.
With few exceptions if the game is big enough or popular enough it comes to console even for indies. (Citizen Sleeper, Obra Dinn, Inscryption, etc.) Of course there are still a few worthwhile exclusives, especially KBM games but not many I think are system sellers likely to make people jump ship.
I noticed this yesterday. I assumed it was because I had hit a 50 day streak. It's not JUST the daily sets it's many of the other random 10 point click rewards that have reduced to 5 points.
Honestly don't know why I am still doing it, with nerf after nerf after nerf, and increases to what redeeming rewards costs, the juice just isn't worth the squeeze anymore. But old habits die hard!
@TheGameThrifter I never said it would pan out. Odds are strongly against them, but I’m still excited for a fresh start for Xbox and think this is the right approach considering how good the Series X was as a console and yet it still lost market share. They need something more drastic and to focus on other metrics than “consoles sold”.
@ZeD It would although as FraserG pointed out there just isn't the bandwidth for staff to do that. Even reviewers have the same problem... say it together now... "Too many games, not enough time"
@ZeD I think for MOST games Day 1 review scores make sense, if your single player game is broken at launch and gets lower review scores that's your fault as a publisher/dev. But the game is usually more or less feature complete. A few things added aren't likely to change the score much.
But Day 1 review scores for live service games make very little sense at all to me. Not only are the games not even close to finished but so much of what makes an online service game great is the community and how they play / react to things, you don't know that until it's matured.
It does actually make sense to me to hold back review SCORES until they have played the end game, but I would publish review-in-progress / initial impressions articles instead.
In truth almost all early review scores for live services are pointless, you are reviewing a small fraction of what the game will be. Early impressions and whether you think it's worth playing makes a lot more sense to me.
@Banjo- I think there's a small chance they might try a cheeky earlier launch in 2027, mix it up a little. Though like you I think the safe money is on Nov 2027.
But it is a little earlier to announce than usual:
Xbox One was announced May 21 2013 and released Nov 22 2013
Project Scorpio (Xbox One X) was announced June 13th 2016 (at E3) and didn't launch till Nov 7 2017.
XSX was announced on Dec 12 2019 (at the Game Awards) and launched Nov 10 2020.
@Balaam_ RAM is HIGHLY unlikely to get any cheaper by 2028, according to most analysts, in fact many think it might even get more expensive. So why wait due to RAM?
@TheGameThrifter Play Anywhere isn't useless. It means you can play on your phone, ROG Ally, cloud or other Xbox enabled device. Just pick up where you left off and play on the go.
I didn't say some devs won't bother making an Xbox version. It's true some won't. In fact many already don't! But this is a calculated risk on Microsoft's part. I agree it's one of the biggest concerns with this strategy.
No point speculating too much until we actually here more, hopefully next week. Fingers crossed it ticks a lot of those boxes. Would be great to see a lot more positive Xbox news!
If they add Steam, no developer will bring their games to the Xbox Store
I suspect they will make some benefits to choosing Xbox store over Steam e.g.
Xbox play anywhere
Pre-optimised graphical settings for a console like experience
Pre-compiled shaders again for a more console like experience
Using the dedicated hardware more efficiently than a general PC spec. effectively we'll get visual upgrades for games running via Xbox store / APIs.
etc. etc.
All in all it will just be more convenient to use the Xbox store so most will use that. They may even do what Android etc. does and add some scare notices for installing from other stores that will scare all but power users off. Or just make installing games from other launchers possible, but just a little finickity making most users stick to the convenient option. It's like it's cheaper to pay for Game pass, or Xbox credit by buying codes online, but do many actually do this outside enthusiasts? Convenience is key.
I don't necessarily think ALL these will happen, it's just a list of ideas, but i'm sure SOME will happen.
We know almost nothing for certain, it's mostly all rumour, but I am excited for it and IF they can deliver on the promise of what it COULD be, removing the need for me to build a separate gaming PC, then I will be willing to pay plenty for it.
However that does make me wonder if they will abandon other gamers or produce a lower spec, more affordable, model. That would make sense to me, though isn't without a few issues.
I also think Xbox needs to turn a new page ASAP so expect this 2027.
@mac_da_man I don’t like that you basically need a keyboard and mouse to boot up a tv based pc. Plus other inconveniences updating drivers having to optimise settings yourself, else you leave performance on the table etc.
I just prefer the streamlined console experience.
That said if I was able to also have it a bit to allow emulation etc. as on a PC, Steam Decl (or an Xbox with a developer account) then that also holds value.
@mac_da_man I had a look at my PC library and across Steam, GoG, Epic, Amazon, etc. I have over 1,000 PC games, and that’s before Xbox Play Anywhere / Game Pass so would be keen to have access to them all on one TV based device.
For me this is going to heavily depend on the software, how close it is to a console like experience and not a PC one. I used to game a lot more on PC but much prefer the "it just works" simplicity of console. ROG Ally X user experience isn't it, they need to do better.
I am rooting for them though, i'd love to be able to buy this instead of a gaming PC.
@mac_da_man I think the other things that REALLY important (apart from specs and price) is the user experience. How close to a console experience and not like a PC is it? Does it have some of the downsides of PC? Do we keep console features like quick boot, Quick Resume etc.
Fingers crossed and looking forward to hearing more.
@Grumblevolcano it is of course possible, but I think RockstR like to have their cake and eat it too. A massive console launch and the. Several months later many players double dipping on PC. This ha worked for them in the past, why change it?
@Questionable_Duck also enjoyed the discussions. The one thing i’d ad dos that it’s more likely the smaller games, Keeper, etc. remain exclusive than the “big heavy hitters”, those need all the sales they can get.
@darylb24 for sure. But considering it’s been a frequent complaint from long time series fans who have put in hundreds and hundreds of hours and want something a little bit more fresh than FH5 which, good as it was, felt a bit like a reskin of FH4 but with more map markers than an Ubisoft game. I’d think the first thing they might want to do is dispel that. No?
What a bizarre choice. If you were going to show almost 10 minutes of uninterrupted footage you'd think they might show off how the new progression works, or things they have changed, instead it's just a look at our world scenic tour.
@Questionable_Duck I will leave you with one thought before I head off for meetings for the rest of the day.
I like the IDEA of getting rid of exclusives. For starters it costs a LOT of money to keep up with all the platforms (my profile pic isn't just for show!) and being able to play all the games I wanted on one platform sounds great... on paper.
...it might even reduce the amount of bloody console warring!
But without exclusives would platform holders even invest in games in the same way? Would Nintendo ever have even created Mario, would Microsoft have made Halo, would Sony have made The Last of Us, if not to push their platforms? Probably not to the same extent. Would they have hired third parties to make games like Gears of War, Bayonetta 2/3 or Bloodborne? I think in all likelihood we would probably have less great generation defining games as a result of no exclusives.
No exclusives is a nice utopian dream, but like most utopian dreams I think it would become a utopian nightmare with severe unforeseen consequences.
For now, exclusives matter, it will be interesting to see what new Xbox leadership does about it. Peace out!
@Questionable_Duck I think you can do damage to a brand without it showing on the surface immediately, it takes time. And I think PlayStation HAS damaged their brand by putting gaming on PC (as has Xbox for that matter).
Brand damage can't just be measured in spreadsheets today it's in people's opinion of the brand, mindshare and other far less tangible factors. I have seen people questioning PlayStation more than ever this gen (due to MANY factors, live service etc.) and I think that damage will have a more tangible overall impact given time. This policy change is just ONE step towards righting their reputation in the eyes of many PlayStation players.
Importantly it's what Microsoft needs to fix more than anyone! Unless you are a diehard, consumer confidence in the Xbox brand is generally at a low, even some long term Xbox players are skittish, or have jumped ship already. I hope the new leadership turns this around. But it's a long, long road.
The trouble with the PC numbers will save us argument is that while SOME games sell very well day 1 on PC (especially certain genres) many AAA games don't sell as well as on console. I don't know why this is, perhaps having 100,000+ games to choose from on Steam and being spread too thin, or having keyboard and mouse as default means they prefer different experiences. It's the reason most AAA publishers aim for console sales primarily in their advertising and marketing often partnering with a console platform. It's very rare to see games pushed for PC in the same way because most AAAs doesn't usually sell the same on Day 1. Players spend a LOT of money on Steam overall, but it isn't on the same things as on console, historically it's a lot more indies, games in sales and more PC centric games.
That list of games you said did poorly on PS5 for example, most of them, Call of Duty excepted, range from 300 concurrent for As Dusk Falls on Steam, through 2.2k for THPS 3+4, to 31k for Doom the Dark Ages. Avowed and TOW2 don't even break 20k, that wouldn't even break into the top 100 most played games on Steam on any given weekend. Bear in mind these are RPGs which are usually popular on PC. As I said they appear to have sold poorly everywhere and Microsoft likely NEED the PS5 sales else they flop. (Some might have flopped anyway)
But my overarching point is PC sales isn't the silver bullet for many of these games that some Xbox gamers think despite the larger player numbers Steam/PC has. That all said for some games it's the right platform - Age of Mythology Retold with it's 25k concurrents, a remaster on a much smaller budget, will be seen as a success. Different games are popular there.
It will be interesting to see what Microsoft / Xbox do under new leadership, but I would be amazed if it's a lot of exclusives, I just don't think the numbers work out for them.
I assume virtually everyone here has got stuck in game and had to look a solution online, maybe watching a youtube video. Imagine not having to go outside the game to be able to get past that more quickly. That COULD be helpful if handled correctly, it's a more streamlined user experience.
I'd prefer it to show me what I was missing (probably right under our nose) and then allow me to do it myself.
Putting games on PC hasn't impacted PlayStation in the slightest.
@Questionable_Duck Honestly we can't say that for sure, perhaps Sony would have sold 5-10+ million more consoles if they were dedicated to exclusives. But I suspect you are right.
Yet I don't think this proposed change is for past console sales, it's for future ones. Would more people buy a Steam Machine, PC, or an XboxPC when all the single player games come to those platforms under the old strategy? There's a lot of people not happy with how PlayStation has been managed for the last few years, live service push etc., and I think a lot of gamers are wavering about whether to jump ship to PC, this decision is to make those on the fence stop and think again, they aren't going to change the mind of those who have firmly planted their flags.
I've literally seen several people I know, or those I've chatted to for years on Discord, do exactly that off the back of this announcement and PSSR2, they feel more positive about PlayStation. Two have even picked up PS5 Pro's in the last few days, i'm sure there are many others that will consider sticking with, or moving to PlayStation because of this next gen.
You pointed out Sony's razor thin profit margins so you know the difference between what they crow about loudly to investors "most profits etc." and the actual more precarious position they are in. This is a calculated risk, but they will have the numbers to show how little they gain from this in terms of revenue, if it was the difference between profit and loss they likely wouldn't do it. Don't you think?
Re: Microsoft sales on PS5. I am not doubting SOME of them sold poorly on PS5, but my point is I think most of them ALSO sold poorly on Xbox, if Microsoft can't cover costs on their own platforms first that doesn't leave them much room to have exclusives.
Yet I do think, and have said for a while, that Xbox has enough studios to have SOME exclusives, and I think we will see more of that even if only timed. But I don't think they can afford to make more than a few exclusive without many of those games turn a loss. That's the problem with only selling circa 35 million consoles and convincing many not to buy games due to Game Pass. Microsoft could do with making their position clearer too.
I think we actually agree on more than we disagree on here.
@Questionable_Duck do we have sales numbers for these, with platform splits? I’d posit that many of those haven’t sold well on Xbox either it’s not just a platform thing.
@PsBoxSwitchOwner It is less than 2% of their TOTAL revenue (1.53% last quarter) but that isn’t actually very useful on its own. Physical sales were only 3% of total revenue… should those also stop? Physical games were also 24% of all units sold on PlayStation, 1 in 4, so you can quickly see how these numbers turn around when reframed.
I think what people are trying to understand is how much of Sony’s first party revenue they would lose, and it’s a fair question, but the fact is we don’t know.
What we do know is that sales of their single player games haven’t been great on PC recently. At what point do you say this isn’t worth it v the potential brand damage?
Need to play To a T. Several gamers here loved it.
Might give F1 a go race around Australia before the season opener… but the download is so big. I wonder if if works through XCloud? Still need to give the cloud update a try and fast paced games are usually a problem for cloud. I’ll report back.
@Fiendish-Beaver I don’t need everyone to believe me. I’ve been posting here for a long time now and I hope I’ve built up at least a little credibility in some areas like numbers from the other gamers I respect here. I do try and add sources, more often than not, so people can judge for themselves the validity of the sources. Not all are equal or accurate.
But I also get things wrong. I quoted a widely reported stat on Push Square yesterday and rightly got called out for it as it was from Alinea Analytics. That’s actually appreciated! Would always rather be corrected, I don’t knowingly spread misinformation. We try and keep each other honest and call out BS when we see it. We all have our biases but I always TRY to be balanced… except when I’m having a Mighty Rant!
@Coletrain I agree that would be useful, but as I said Sony doesn’t publish the data in a way that we have, or could accurately predict, that metric or something like it. There’s too many variables that would make it a wild guess.
I think the important thing to realise is they are 3 different businesses with 3 different strategies, what works for one may not work for the other. I.e.
I believe Sony would be willing to take a small loss on some of their first party games in order to keep gamers playing and paying on PSN. As I’ve said many times this is wheee Sony makes most of their money, NOT through first party.
Whereas Nintendo makes around 80% of games revenue from first party, hence they NEED it to be really profitable.
And I believe Xbox is somewhere in between, split between services and publishing as key areas (Microsoft is the least forthcoming with actual useful data). But having by far the smallest console install base majorly affects their options. E.g. I don’t think they could afford to make all their games exclusive without massive losses.
@Fiendish-Beaver the 40% number is made up, there’s no reliable data to back it up, as the article linked to even states it’s based on napkin maths, it isn’t even slightly reliable.
But the point it was trying to make is that the 2% (it was actually 1.53%) last quarter is for all revenue Sony made from games NOT on PlayStation (PC, Switch, Xbox etc) as a percentage of ALL PlayStation revenue (hardware, software, PS+ etc)
When we narrow it down as a percentage of revenue Sony made JUST from games this increases to 2.95%. This includes revenue from third party games and MTX of course.
What the article was trying to do, unsuccessfully I should add, was to further narrow it down as a percentage of ONLY Sony first party revenue, which will be higher.
There is perhaps some merit in that, but Sony doesn’t provide enough data to accurately even guess at this, the methodology used in the linked article is WAY off, you just can’t extrapolate numbers accurately in the way they are attempting, which makes it pretty useless.
It’s also ignoring the key point that most of that revenue was reportedly from Helldivers 2 and will keep being made on PC and Xbox. Single player revenue, which is what is reportedly being removed, is only a fraction of that. Sony doesn’t appear to be losing much.
@Fiendish-Beaver I don’t believe DF, or anyone, has their hands on the full game yet. They’ve just done a round of in person preview events - all reportedly on PC where it reportedly runs well on the provided hardware.
DF couldn’t attend as Alex has chronic back pain, but the devs went out of their way to provide footage to DFs specifications, which bodes quite well imo.
My 2 cents on where you should play… nowhere yet. Just wait, the game isn’t going anywhere and APPEARS to be coming in quite hot - else why not get ahead of this press and provide console footage and previews on console. I strongly suspect it will be better after some patches like most AAA games.
You said you don’t like playing on PC so that seems to rule that out. (Though the play anywhere PC/xbox suggestion makes some sense). The dev has already touted decent PS5 Pro support on paper but until we see this in action all bets are off. I’d DEFINITELY wait both for reviews on the game and for reviews on actual console, there’s a chance they might initially only supply pc codes.
All in all I’m cautiously optimistic for this game, but I think it’s going to be quite divisive. Possibly some people’s GOTY but others will find it quite unfocused and unpolished if the previews I’ve seen are anything to go by. There’s no doubting its ambition though.
The TechSpot article that says 30% of PlayStation’s revenue comes from PC only includes first‑party games, which is a much more accurate way to calculate it.
@fatpunkslim If it were accurate i'd agree. But the numbers are basically made up. Unless you can tell me how you RELIABLY get from 96 billion Yen for PC / 'Other games' sales and 28.9 million first party units sold to this suddenly being 30% of Sony's first party revenue. You can't, the two are unrelated bits of data. The author clearly needs to go back to school, but even he states it's inaccurate napkin maths. It's not something to be touted as fact as you are doing.
But more to the point, as the article points out this sales bump on PC was down to Helldivers 2, this and other live services would still be multiplatform if their new plans are accurate. It's ONLY single player games that are reportedly being made exclusive, understandably as sales for these have been tailing off on PC. We can see that both in the reduced 'other games' revenue and from analysts sales estimates.
Let me ask you this. If you were Sony and making approx. $75 million USD a quarter from putting your first party single-player games on PC would you keep doing that knowing it weakens your brand? The juice has to be worth the squeeze. For Sony it isn't, for Microsoft it is. Different positions, different strategies needed.
@fatpunkslim @TrollOfWar FYI That article has some very dubious maths, assumption after assumption, extrapolating data from one data point (boosted that quarter due to Helldivers 2), comparing one metric to another unrelated metric and incorrectly assuming it would carry over for several years. It's like comparing apples and oranges. You can't do calculations like that. It's like pissing in the wind. (They do say it's napkin maths to be fair, but the point is it's not reliable)
But even if it were accurate, you are missing the point that Helldivers 2 would still be making it's way to PC and Xbox, they are only talking about single player games. Live services will still be cross platform.
What I can tell you for a fact is that in the last quarter it was 1.53% of ALL PlayStation revenue (24.670 bn yen of 1613 bn yen), and 2.95% of all revenue from games (24.670bn yen of 835bn yen).
Sony don't break down the data in the way the article you linked is suggesting they only show how many first party sales there were, 39.7 million units. The two aren't linked and can't be calculated like they suggest.
This makes sense for Sony. Their games started off selling quite well on PC but sales have significantly tailed off. While they don't give exact sales numbers on individual games we have sales estimates from analysts as well as accurate financial data directly from Sony that shows this is tailing off. i.e.
It peaked at 54,456 Million Yen (circa 350 million USD) in Q4 2023 but is averaging less than half that (23,190 m. Yen / 150 M USD) last 6 quarters and most of that appears to be Helldivers 2 which won't be changing.
Assuming most of that is Helldivers 2, which won't change, is it really worth them putting their exclusives on PC (and Xbox in future) for the rest? No, in my view.
Whereas Xbox sells massively on PlayStation. They don't break this down, but it has to multiple billions per year.
"The puzzle difficulty is flawlessly pitched, with just enough challenge to tickle your little grey cells without resorting to a rage-quit scenario!"
That sounds perfect. I loved the aesthetic and vibe of the original but found the gameplay mind numbingly basic, I just walked through puzzles without blinking. Hopefully this puts up more of a challenge. Looking forward to it. Fingers crossed.
@Fiendish-Beaver Code Veronica is one of the few RE games I didn't finish. Not because it wasn't good but because I used up all my good ammo and healing items on a boss somewhere in the game (deliberately being vague to avoid spoilers) that I thought was perhaps the last boss. It wasn't, and I hadn't realised there was a trick to that boss fight and just wasted it all and then stupidly overwrote my save.
This was in the day of expensive memory cards with limited storage and I didn't have a back up save from earlier (we all learn this lesson at some point!), I then had to try and get through the next part that was a step up in difficulty with a few pistol rounds and no healing items. I was also quite young and didn't quite realise you could run past most enemies in Resident Evil. lol.
All that to say I am excited to finally play and finish it.
Comments 8,253
Re: Xbox's Phil Spencer Was Asked About Retirement A Year Ago, And Here's What He Said
As a decent human and lover of games he’ll be missed, and I’ll always appreciate what he did bringing Xbox back from the brink, as well as championing things like backwards compatibility, cross play and play anywhere that have made the entire industry better.
But at the same time it was time for a change, the last few years have been mostly rough for Xbox as a brand.
Take a well deserved rest Phil.
Re: The 10 Most Wanted Backwards Compatibility Games According To 'Xbox Game Preservation'
To be honest seeing this list makes me feel they’ve down a pretty good job with the games they have added. There are a lot of licensed games there like Spider-man, Transformers, 007 that sadly will likely never come unless someone makes it their mission to convince all parties. (Fingers crossed)
I’m not usually a huge fan of re-releasing racing games as they usually age pretty badly, I suspect a lot of people wanting Project Gotham might play it once or twice for nostalgia, then realise that it’s not as great as they remember anymore, time and games have moved on. I’d make an exception for Burnout takedown though.
Will have to have a think what else is missing.
Re: Talking Point: Are You Happy With Xbox Game Pass Ultimate In 2026?
@Balaam_ People often say this but for me around 80% - 90% of the games I play I know I will never play again so what’s the point of owning it. I can’t even remotely keep up with up all the NEW releases so what chance is there to replay most games.
For the few games I think I might want to keep playing I either buy, there is still that option, or play on game pass and buy much later when it’s in a bargain basement sale.
At the end of the day I think ownership is overrated. But we all play differently.
Re: Next Xbox Console: Everything We Know So Far About Microsoft's Next-Gen System
@Gemini53 Jez Corden (not that I think he’s very accurate all that often, but he’s not bad on Xbox news) suggested that there may only be one official Xbox but they will allow OEMs like ASUS to also build them to different specs. Effectively prebuilt pcs probably with a custom hardware layer to make them an “Xbox” this is another solution. I’m just not sure if they will want to ONLY go the premium user route. That doesn’t make sense to me.
Re: Here's What Might Leave Xbox Game Pass In April 2026
@Kramlar Also find these VERY useful, you've saved me on more than one occasion it's much appreciated Ben, Fraser and Co.
Re: Next Xbox Console: Everything We Know So Far About Microsoft's Next-Gen System
@UnlimitedSevens I think you are 100% right. I have no doubt this will be a very niche device. Microsoft EITHER:
But it just so happens I am in that target demographic. I need to rebuild my PC rig, but i'd prefer to play on console and would happily pay for a powerful under the TV PC with a more console like experience. In a perfect world this would have been the Steam Machine but their weak specs, slower than current gen, left me cold.
However it's not a lock yet. It depends on what the ACTUAL specs, price and feature set are. Seeing how Microsoft have done business for the last few years i'm sure they'll find SOME way to EFF it up. But fingers crossed they don't.
Re: Talking Point: Are You Happy With Xbox Game Pass Ultimate In 2026?
Yes, i'm happy enough. But mostly because I stacked at a much lower rate. If I was paying £23 a month, or playing far fewer games, then maybe not.
Re: Talking Point: Will 'Project Helix' Be A Niche Device, Or An Xbox Console For The Masses?
Unless there is a cheaper option it will be niche.
It just happens I might be in that niche, but I don't think it will sell well... at all, if the price is as high as we fear.
While it's true there are a LOT of games that only release on PC that is a little deceptive because most of these are exceptionally small or niche games that aren't going to convince many console players to switch to PC, especially from PS5 or Switch 2.
With few exceptions if the game is big enough or popular enough it comes to console even for indies. (Citizen Sleeper, Obra Dinn, Inscryption, etc.) Of course there are still a few worthwhile exclusives, especially KBM games but not many I think are system sellers likely to make people jump ship.
Re: Microsoft Rewards Reduces 'Daily Set' Points Across Multiple Regions
I noticed this yesterday. I assumed it was because I had hit a 50 day streak. It's not JUST the daily sets it's many of the other random 10 point click rewards that have reduced to 5 points.
Honestly don't know why I am still doing it, with nerf after nerf after nerf, and increases to what redeeming rewards costs, the juice just isn't worth the squeeze anymore. But old habits die hard!
Re: Next Xbox Console: Everything We Know So Far About Microsoft's Next-Gen System
@TheGameThrifter I never said it would pan out. Odds are strongly against them, but I’m still excited for a fresh start for Xbox and think this is the right approach considering how good the Series X was as a console and yet it still lost market share. They need something more drastic and to focus on other metrics than “consoles sold”.
Re: Marathon's Final Reviews Are Mostly Being Held Back, So Here's What Xbox Players Are Saying
@ZeD It would although as FraserG pointed out there just isn't the bandwidth for staff to do that. Even reviewers have the same problem... say it together now... "Too many games, not enough time"
Re: Marathon's Final Reviews Are Mostly Being Held Back, So Here's What Xbox Players Are Saying
@ZeD I think for MOST games Day 1 review scores make sense, if your single player game is broken at launch and gets lower review scores that's your fault as a publisher/dev. But the game is usually more or less feature complete. A few things added aren't likely to change the score much.
But Day 1 review scores for live service games make very little sense at all to me. Not only are the games not even close to finished but so much of what makes an online service game great is the community and how they play / react to things, you don't know that until it's matured.
Re: Next Xbox Console: Everything We Know So Far About Microsoft's Next-Gen System
@kmtrain83 It means you can pick up your phone, or Xbox Rog Ally or any device with Xbox app or cloud and pick up where you left off.
Re: Marathon's Final Reviews Are Mostly Being Held Back, So Here's What Xbox Players Are Saying
It does actually make sense to me to hold back review SCORES until they have played the end game, but I would publish review-in-progress / initial impressions articles instead.
In truth almost all early review scores for live services are pointless, you are reviewing a small fraction of what the game will be. Early impressions and whether you think it's worth playing makes a lot more sense to me.
Re: With Xbox's 'Project Helix' Revealed, How Likely Is A 2027 Release Date?
@Banjo- I think there's a small chance they might try a cheeky earlier launch in 2027, mix it up a little. Though like you I think the safe money is on Nov 2027.
But it is a little earlier to announce than usual:
So. Many. Questions. Can't wait to hear more.
Re: With Xbox's 'Project Helix' Revealed, How Likely Is A 2027 Release Date?
@Balaam_ RAM is HIGHLY unlikely to get any cheaper by 2028, according to most analysts, in fact many think it might even get more expensive. So why wait due to RAM?
Re: With Xbox's 'Project Helix' Revealed, How Likely Is A 2027 Release Date?
Almost certain, unless they are being super cheeky with a 2026 date!
I can't see them announcing it this week, telling us more at GDC next week and then waiting till 2028+. That would be madness.
Then again... Xbox loves stepping on rakes. First it giveth, then it taketh away!
Re: Next Xbox Console: Everything We Know So Far About Microsoft's Next-Gen System
@TheGameThrifter Play Anywhere isn't useless. It means you can play on your phone, ROG Ally, cloud or other Xbox enabled device. Just pick up where you left off and play on the go.
I didn't say some devs won't bother making an Xbox version. It's true some won't. In fact many already don't! But this is a calculated risk on Microsoft's part. I agree it's one of the biggest concerns with this strategy.
No point speculating too much until we actually here more, hopefully next week. Fingers crossed it ticks a lot of those boxes. Would be great to see a lot more positive Xbox news!
Re: Next Xbox Console: Everything We Know So Far About Microsoft's Next-Gen System
Gabrie wrote:
I suspect they will make some benefits to choosing Xbox store over Steam e.g.
All in all it will just be more convenient to use the Xbox store so most will use that. They may even do what Android etc. does and add some scare notices for installing from other stores that will scare all but power users off. Or just make installing games from other launchers possible, but just a little finickity making most users stick to the convenient option. It's like it's cheaper to pay for Game pass, or Xbox credit by buying codes online, but do many actually do this outside enthusiasts? Convenience is key.
I don't necessarily think ALL these will happen, it's just a list of ideas, but i'm sure SOME will happen.
Re: Next Xbox Console: Everything We Know So Far About Microsoft's Next-Gen System
We know almost nothing for certain, it's mostly all rumour, but I am excited for it and IF they can deliver on the promise of what it COULD be, removing the need for me to build a separate gaming PC, then I will be willing to pay plenty for it.
However that does make me wonder if they will abandon other gamers or produce a lower spec, more affordable, model. That would make sense to me, though isn't without a few issues.
I also think Xbox needs to turn a new page ASAP so expect this 2027.
Re: Xbox Announces New 'Project Helix' Console, Says It Will Play PC Games
@mac_da_man I don’t like that you basically need a keyboard and mouse to boot up a tv based pc. Plus other inconveniences updating drivers having to optimise settings yourself, else you leave performance on the table etc.
I just prefer the streamlined console experience.
That said if I was able to also have it a bit to allow emulation etc. as on a PC, Steam Decl (or an Xbox with a developer account) then that also holds value.
Excited to see what they have for us
Re: Xbox Announces New 'Project Helix' Console, Says It Will Play PC Games
@mac_da_man I had a look at my PC library and across Steam, GoG, Epic, Amazon, etc. I have over 1,000 PC games, and that’s before Xbox Play Anywhere / Game Pass so would be keen to have access to them all on one TV based device.
Re: Windows & Steam Support Will Make Project Helix 'The Most Open Xbox Ever', Says Report
For me this is going to heavily depend on the software, how close it is to a console like experience and not a PC one. I used to game a lot more on PC but much prefer the "it just works" simplicity of console. ROG Ally X user experience isn't it, they need to do better.
I am rooting for them though, i'd love to be able to buy this instead of a gaming PC.
Re: 'It Will Lead In Performance' - Xbox's Price Tag For Project Helix Could Be Pretty High
If it REALLY does it all I’d pay a lot for it, as it would effectively replace buying a gaming PC for me, this includes
I’m perhaps not expecting it to do ALL that but for for everything it DOESN’T do, or doesn’t do well, it’d pay less. Look forward to finding out more.
Re: Xbox Announces New 'Project Helix' Console, Says It Will Play PC Games
@mac_da_man I think the other things that REALLY important (apart from specs and price) is the user experience. How close to a console experience and not like a PC is it? Does it have some of the downsides of PC? Do we keep console features like quick boot, Quick Resume etc.
Fingers crossed and looking forward to hearing more.
Re: Assassin's Creed Unity Is Getting A Free Xbox Series X|S Upgrade This Week
@LostInBlue0 it’s awesome! While I don’t watch it that often the wood kid track it on my frequent playlist and I think about it every week.
I liked the game, but the trailer was even better that the game. lol.
Re: Next Xbox Console Could Be Affected By PlayStation Pulling Back On PC
@Grumblevolcano it is of course possible, but I think RockstR like to have their cake and eat it too. A massive console launch and the. Several months later many players double dipping on PC. This ha worked for them in the past, why change it?
Re: Next Xbox Console Could Be Affected By PlayStation Pulling Back On PC
@Questionable_Duck also enjoyed the discussions. The one thing i’d ad dos that it’s more likely the smaller games, Keeper, etc. remain exclusive than the “big heavy hitters”, those need all the sales they can get.
Re: Xbox Announces New 'Project Helix' Console, Says It Will Play PC Games
Fantastic to have something concrete, look forward to hearing more.
Will be interesting to see if leaked specs end up being accurate.
Re: Here's Almost 10 Minutes Of Uncut Gameplay Footage From Forza Horizon 6
@darylb24 for sure. But considering it’s been a frequent complaint from long time series fans who have put in hundreds and hundreds of hours and want something a little bit more fresh than FH5 which, good as it was, felt a bit like a reskin of FH4 but with more map markers than an Ubisoft game. I’d think the first thing they might want to do is dispel that. No?
Re: Here's Almost 10 Minutes Of Uncut Gameplay Footage From Forza Horizon 6
What a bizarre choice. If you were going to show almost 10 minutes of uninterrupted footage you'd think they might show off how the new progression works, or things they have changed, instead it's just a look at our world scenic tour.
Re: Next Xbox Console Could Be Affected By PlayStation Pulling Back On PC
@Questionable_Duck I will leave you with one thought before I head off for meetings for the rest of the day.
I like the IDEA of getting rid of exclusives. For starters it costs a LOT of money to keep up with all the platforms (my profile pic isn't just for show!) and being able to play all the games I wanted on one platform sounds great... on paper.
...it might even reduce the amount of bloody console warring!
But without exclusives would platform holders even invest in games in the same way? Would Nintendo ever have even created Mario, would Microsoft have made Halo, would Sony have made The Last of Us, if not to push their platforms? Probably not to the same extent. Would they have hired third parties to make games like Gears of War, Bayonetta 2/3 or Bloodborne? I think in all likelihood we would probably have less great generation defining games as a result of no exclusives.
No exclusives is a nice utopian dream, but like most utopian dreams I think it would become a utopian nightmare with severe unforeseen consequences.
For now, exclusives matter, it will be interesting to see what new Xbox leadership does about it. Peace out!
Re: Next Xbox Console Could Be Affected By PlayStation Pulling Back On PC
@Questionable_Duck I think you can do damage to a brand without it showing on the surface immediately, it takes time. And I think PlayStation HAS damaged their brand by putting gaming on PC (as has Xbox for that matter).
Brand damage can't just be measured in spreadsheets today it's in people's opinion of the brand, mindshare and other far less tangible factors. I have seen people questioning PlayStation more than ever this gen (due to MANY factors, live service etc.) and I think that damage will have a more tangible overall impact given time. This policy change is just ONE step towards righting their reputation in the eyes of many PlayStation players.
Importantly it's what Microsoft needs to fix more than anyone! Unless you are a diehard, consumer confidence in the Xbox brand is generally at a low, even some long term Xbox players are skittish, or have jumped ship already. I hope the new leadership turns this around. But it's a long, long road.
The trouble with the PC numbers will save us argument is that while SOME games sell very well day 1 on PC (especially certain genres) many AAA games don't sell as well as on console. I don't know why this is, perhaps having 100,000+ games to choose from on Steam and being spread too thin, or having keyboard and mouse as default means they prefer different experiences. It's the reason most AAA publishers aim for console sales primarily in their advertising and marketing often partnering with a console platform. It's very rare to see games pushed for PC in the same way because most AAAs doesn't usually sell the same on Day 1. Players spend a LOT of money on Steam overall, but it isn't on the same things as on console, historically it's a lot more indies, games in sales and more PC centric games.
That list of games you said did poorly on PS5 for example, most of them, Call of Duty excepted, range from 300 concurrent for As Dusk Falls on Steam, through 2.2k for THPS 3+4, to 31k for Doom the Dark Ages. Avowed and TOW2 don't even break 20k, that wouldn't even break into the top 100 most played games on Steam on any given weekend. Bear in mind these are RPGs which are usually popular on PC. As I said they appear to have sold poorly everywhere and Microsoft likely NEED the PS5 sales else they flop. (Some might have flopped anyway)
But my overarching point is PC sales isn't the silver bullet for many of these games that some Xbox gamers think despite the larger player numbers Steam/PC has. That all said for some games it's the right platform - Age of Mythology Retold with it's 25k concurrents, a remaster on a much smaller budget, will be seen as a success. Different games are popular there.
It will be interesting to see what Microsoft / Xbox do under new leadership, but I would be amazed if it's a lot of exclusives, I just don't think the numbers work out for them.
Re: Microsoft Has Explored Allowing AI & Other Xbox Players To Help Control Your Games
I assume virtually everyone here has got stuck in game and had to look a solution online, maybe watching a youtube video. Imagine not having to go outside the game to be able to get past that more quickly. That COULD be helpful if handled correctly, it's a more streamlined user experience.
I'd prefer it to show me what I was missing (probably right under our nose) and then allow me to do it myself.
Re: Next Xbox Console Could Be Affected By PlayStation Pulling Back On PC
@Questionable_Duck Honestly we can't say that for sure, perhaps Sony would have sold 5-10+ million more consoles if they were dedicated to exclusives. But I suspect you are right.
Yet I don't think this proposed change is for past console sales, it's for future ones. Would more people buy a Steam Machine, PC, or an XboxPC when all the single player games come to those platforms under the old strategy? There's a lot of people not happy with how PlayStation has been managed for the last few years, live service push etc., and I think a lot of gamers are wavering about whether to jump ship to PC, this decision is to make those on the fence stop and think again, they aren't going to change the mind of those who have firmly planted their flags.
I've literally seen several people I know, or those I've chatted to for years on Discord, do exactly that off the back of this announcement and PSSR2, they feel more positive about PlayStation. Two have even picked up PS5 Pro's in the last few days, i'm sure there are many others that will consider sticking with, or moving to PlayStation because of this next gen.
You pointed out Sony's razor thin profit margins so you know the difference between what they crow about loudly to investors "most profits etc." and the actual more precarious position they are in. This is a calculated risk, but they will have the numbers to show how little they gain from this in terms of revenue, if it was the difference between profit and loss they likely wouldn't do it. Don't you think?
Re: Microsoft sales on PS5. I am not doubting SOME of them sold poorly on PS5, but my point is I think most of them ALSO sold poorly on Xbox, if Microsoft can't cover costs on their own platforms first that doesn't leave them much room to have exclusives.
Yet I do think, and have said for a while, that Xbox has enough studios to have SOME exclusives, and I think we will see more of that even if only timed. But I don't think they can afford to make more than a few exclusive without many of those games turn a loss. That's the problem with only selling circa 35 million consoles and convincing many not to buy games due to Game Pass. Microsoft could do with making their position clearer too.
I think we actually agree on more than we disagree on here.
Re: Next Xbox Console Could Be Affected By PlayStation Pulling Back On PC
@Questionable_Duck do we have sales numbers for these, with platform splits? I’d posit that many of those haven’t sold well on Xbox either it’s not just a platform thing.
Re: Next Xbox Console Could Be Affected By PlayStation Pulling Back On PC
@PsBoxSwitchOwner It is less than 2% of their TOTAL revenue (1.53% last quarter) but that isn’t actually very useful on its own. Physical sales were only 3% of total revenue… should those also stop? Physical games were also 24% of all units sold on PlayStation, 1 in 4, so you can quickly see how these numbers turn around when reframed.
I think what people are trying to understand is how much of Sony’s first party revenue they would lose, and it’s a fair question, but the fact is we don’t know.
What we do know is that sales of their single player games haven’t been great on PC recently. At what point do you say this isn’t worth it v the potential brand damage?
Re: Next Xbox Console Could Be Affected By PlayStation Pulling Back On PC
@Fiendish-Beaver Appreciated dude. Keep fighting the good fight and may our willpower protect us from trolls and timewasters!
Re: The Gorgeous Planet Of Lana 2 Is Available Today With Xbox Game Pass (March 5)
Downloading now (EDIT: not downloading, not available yet). Looking forward to giving it a go this weekend. Just finishing Donkey Kong Bananza first.
Thanks for the heads up.
Re: Two Games Are Available Across Xbox Game Pass Ultimate & Premium Today (March 4)
Need to play To a T. Several gamers here loved it.
Might give F1 a go race around Australia before the season opener… but the download is so big. I wonder if if works through XCloud? Still need to give the cloud update a try and fast paced games are usually a problem for cloud. I’ll report back.
Re: Next Xbox Console Could Be Affected By PlayStation Pulling Back On PC
@Fiendish-Beaver I don’t need everyone to believe me. I’ve been posting here for a long time now and I hope I’ve built up at least a little credibility in some areas like numbers from the other gamers I respect here. I do try and add sources, more often than not, so people can judge for themselves the validity of the sources. Not all are equal or accurate.
But I also get things wrong. I quoted a widely reported stat on Push Square yesterday and rightly got called out for it as it was from Alinea Analytics. That’s actually appreciated! Would always rather be corrected, I don’t knowingly spread misinformation. We try and keep each other honest and call out BS when we see it. We all have our biases but I always TRY to be balanced… except when I’m having a Mighty Rant!
Re: Next Xbox Console Could Be Affected By PlayStation Pulling Back On PC
@Coletrain I agree that would be useful, but as I said Sony doesn’t publish the data in a way that we have, or could accurately predict, that metric or something like it. There’s too many variables that would make it a wild guess.
I think the important thing to realise is they are 3 different businesses with 3 different strategies, what works for one may not work for the other. I.e.
I believe Sony would be willing to take a small loss on some of their first party games in order to keep gamers playing and paying on PSN. As I’ve said many times this is wheee Sony makes most of their money, NOT through first party.
Whereas Nintendo makes around 80% of games revenue from first party, hence they NEED it to be really profitable.
And I believe Xbox is somewhere in between, split between services and publishing as key areas (Microsoft is the least forthcoming with actual useful data). But having by far the smallest console install base majorly affects their options. E.g. I don’t think they could afford to make all their games exclusive without massive losses.
Re: Next Xbox Console Could Be Affected By PlayStation Pulling Back On PC
@Fiendish-Beaver the 40% number is made up, there’s no reliable data to back it up, as the article linked to even states it’s based on napkin maths, it isn’t even slightly reliable.
But the point it was trying to make is that the 2% (it was actually 1.53%) last quarter is for all revenue Sony made from games NOT on PlayStation (PC, Switch, Xbox etc) as a percentage of ALL PlayStation revenue (hardware, software, PS+ etc)
When we narrow it down as a percentage of revenue Sony made JUST from games this increases to 2.95%. This includes revenue from third party games and MTX of course.
What the article was trying to do, unsuccessfully I should add, was to further narrow it down as a percentage of ONLY Sony first party revenue, which will be higher.
There is perhaps some merit in that, but Sony doesn’t provide enough data to accurately even guess at this, the methodology used in the linked article is WAY off, you just can’t extrapolate numbers accurately in the way they are attempting, which makes it pretty useless.
It’s also ignoring the key point that most of that revenue was reportedly from Helldivers 2 and will keep being made on PC and Xbox. Single player revenue, which is what is reportedly being removed, is only a fraction of that. Sony doesn’t appear to be losing much.
Re: Crimson Desert Impresses In Previews As Dev Urges Patience For Xbox & PS5 Footage
@Fiendish-Beaver I don’t believe DF, or anyone, has their hands on the full game yet. They’ve just done a round of in person preview events - all reportedly on PC where it reportedly runs well on the provided hardware.
DF couldn’t attend as Alex has chronic back pain, but the devs went out of their way to provide footage to DFs specifications, which bodes quite well imo.
My 2 cents on where you should play… nowhere yet. Just wait, the game isn’t going anywhere and APPEARS to be coming in quite hot - else why not get ahead of this press and provide console footage and previews on console. I strongly suspect it will be better after some patches like most AAA games.
You said you don’t like playing on PC so that seems to rule that out. (Though the play anywhere PC/xbox suggestion makes some sense). The dev has already touted decent PS5 Pro support on paper but until we see this in action all bets are off. I’d DEFINITELY wait both for reviews on the game and for reviews on actual console, there’s a chance they might initially only supply pc codes.
All in all I’m cautiously optimistic for this game, but I think it’s going to be quite divisive. Possibly some people’s GOTY but others will find it quite unfocused and unpolished if the previews I’ve seen are anything to go by. There’s no doubting its ambition though.
Re: Assassin's Creed Unity Is Getting A Free Xbox Series X|S Upgrade This Week
For all the bad things about Ubisoft this needs to be repeatedly praised they are great at updating their games years later for free. Appreciated!
@Kaloudz It's brilliant. Ubisoft were on another level for ads around that time. I still love the AC: Revelations one best.
Re: Next Xbox Console Could Be Affected By PlayStation Pulling Back On PC
@fatpunkslim If it were accurate i'd agree. But the numbers are basically made up. Unless you can tell me how you RELIABLY get from 96 billion Yen for PC / 'Other games' sales and 28.9 million first party units sold to this suddenly being 30% of Sony's first party revenue. You can't, the two are unrelated bits of data. The author clearly needs to go back to school, but even he states it's inaccurate napkin maths. It's not something to be touted as fact as you are doing.
But more to the point, as the article points out this sales bump on PC was down to Helldivers 2, this and other live services would still be multiplatform if their new plans are accurate. It's ONLY single player games that are reportedly being made exclusive, understandably as sales for these have been tailing off on PC. We can see that both in the reduced 'other games' revenue and from analysts sales estimates.
Let me ask you this. If you were Sony and making approx. $75 million USD a quarter from putting your first party single-player games on PC would you keep doing that knowing it weakens your brand? The juice has to be worth the squeeze. For Sony it isn't, for Microsoft it is. Different positions, different strategies needed.
Re: Next Xbox Console Could Be Affected By PlayStation Pulling Back On PC
@fatpunkslim @TrollOfWar FYI That article has some very dubious maths, assumption after assumption, extrapolating data from one data point (boosted that quarter due to Helldivers 2), comparing one metric to another unrelated metric and incorrectly assuming it would carry over for several years. It's like comparing apples and oranges. You can't do calculations like that. It's like pissing in the wind. (They do say it's napkin maths to be fair, but the point is it's not reliable)
But even if it were accurate, you are missing the point that Helldivers 2 would still be making it's way to PC and Xbox, they are only talking about single player games. Live services will still be cross platform.
What I can tell you for a fact is that in the last quarter it was 1.53% of ALL PlayStation revenue (24.670 bn yen of 1613 bn yen), and 2.95% of all revenue from games (24.670bn yen of 835bn yen).
Sony don't break down the data in the way the article you linked is suggesting they only show how many first party sales there were, 39.7 million units. The two aren't linked and can't be calculated like they suggest.
You can see all the actual data here yourself.
Re: Next Xbox Console Could Be Affected By PlayStation Pulling Back On PC
This makes sense for Sony. Their games started off selling quite well on PC but sales have significantly tailed off. While they don't give exact sales numbers on individual games we have sales estimates from analysts as well as accurate financial data directly from Sony that shows this is tailing off. i.e.
It peaked at 54,456 Million Yen (circa 350 million USD) in Q4 2023 but is averaging less than half that (23,190 m. Yen / 150 M USD) last 6 quarters and most of that appears to be Helldivers 2 which won't be changing.
Assuming most of that is Helldivers 2, which won't change, is it really worth them putting their exclusives on PC (and Xbox in future) for the rest? No, in my view.
Whereas Xbox sells massively on PlayStation. They don't break this down, but it has to multiple billions per year.
Re: Roundup: Here's What The Reviews Say About Planet Of Lana 2 On Xbox Game Pass
That sounds perfect. I loved the aesthetic and vibe of the original but found the gameplay mind numbingly basic, I just walked through puzzles without blinking. Hopefully this puts up more of a challenge. Looking forward to it. Fingers crossed.
Re: Resident Evil Requiem Hits Incredible Sales Milestone In Less Than A Week
Great sales numbers. Well done Capgod.
@Fiendish-Beaver Code Veronica is one of the few RE games I didn't finish. Not because it wasn't good but because I used up all my good ammo and healing items on a boss somewhere in the game (deliberately being vague to avoid spoilers) that I thought was perhaps the last boss. It wasn't, and I hadn't realised there was a trick to that boss fight and just wasted it all and then stupidly overwrote my save.
This was in the day of expensive memory cards with limited storage and I didn't have a back up save from earlier (we all learn this lesson at some point!), I then had to try and get through the next part that was a step up in difficulty with a few pistol rounds and no healing items. I was also quite young and didn't quite realise you could run past most enemies in Resident Evil. lol.
All that to say I am excited to finally play and finish it.