Coletrain

@BAMozzy did I dispute that a mobile player was a MAU? No, I didn't. I said it inflates the figures.

And yes, as an Xbox gamer I very much do want to see how that translates to console and PC users without mobile. My PERSONAL OPINION is that presenting these figures like this is BS because it presents a mobile player as no different from a hardcore gamer like me, so it tells me nothing interesting about my hobby and it's success

@BAMozzy which was exactly my point, in that including mobile users (NOT game pass cloud mobile), which is the biggest market in gaming BY FAR inflates that figure significantly.

I want to see what is gaming revenue Vs MAUs for real games, not trash mobile games, regardless of if Microsoft have now inherited them through ABK.

@Weebleman ah, so even when I turn on my PC I'm a MAU. Makes it even weirder to say this alongside gaming revenue in articles then

@BAMozzy I'm not taking about people playing GP on phones though mate, there literally wouldn't be enough subscribers to even slightly affect the 500m MAU claim. I'm on about these numbers including people playing King games on mobile and tablet, not me playing cloud on an iPhone

@themightyant yep, very fair points mate

I like Xbox PC for now, but eventually I'd like if everything was just labelled as "Xbox" if things are amalgamated. Maybe keep a tagline like "Also available on Xbox Series" for cross-gen gaming

@Ricky-Spanish no offence taken bud, no disputing how successful the gaming division has been at all and I'm a huge Xbox fan now.

I'm thinking more that the total addressable console and PC market that can access Xbox games (let's just ignore grannies and kids playing candy crush on iPad for a minute lol) is probably 500m on its own, so when they say that stat alongside gaming revenue and services growth, its just misleading

@BAMozzy mobile does matter because it's a huge market and isn't comparable to the types of games on console/PC. I'm not disputing the numbers, I just find it disingenuous not to split the figures

@Ricky-Spanish just on about those 500m MAUs bud, not doing conspiracy theories. I don't use this forum to bash Xbox, quite the opposite

@themightyant I just mean by the comment that including mobile F2P games massively inflates the stat. I'd be more interested in knowing MAUs for game pass and paid for Xbox/PC games TBH, it gives us a better comparison for engagement Vs Sony and Nintendo

500m MAUs needs to be scrutinised. That's more of less bigger than all console market combined. Bet it includes people playing candy crush

@VoidPunk I don't like that they fired turn 10 but as a game, FM8 was trash. Low effort, nothing fun to do. Once I was over the initial thrill of it being a new game I drifted away quick.

I mean that we (consumers) are still being supported with games, I was replying to a comment around someone being worried about hardware sales affecting Xbox consumers. Not sure what you mean about the Xbox exclusives losing $100 though sorry

@huroma yeah hard to really form an opinion isn't it. My hope is that a complete alignment of Xbox console and PC takes place so that only one game needs to be coded for, at which point hardware sales don't matter.

Failing that, it's ps6 really, for all the things I don't care for with ps right now you at least know they're gonna be supported

@huroma I'd be more concerned if we weren't getting game support. I know there are a small number of specific examples like no rest for the wicked, Wu Kong and delays on BG3 (can't say I care much about the first two TBH) but then you have things like square enix back in the fold, marketing rights for ninja garden 4 and metaphor, and I'm like...nah this is fine right now.

@Elbow hell yeah it does. It was one of the main motivators for me when I moved from PS4 to XSX

@Millionski I think naughty dog would chart high too. They and Insomniac are top tier in terms of technical ability

@fatpunkslim no no, I saw that news several times over. Generated a lot of clicks I'm sure!

I agree, Sony will follow at their own pace, but it's not their business model right now. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in the camp of "if you think that means god of war and the last of us you're a simp", but one job listing means nothing in terms of broad strategy. Now Helldivers 2, that's more a signal of intent

@TrollOfWar no, not at all, it would be a great move for consumers! I'm more meaning how it's used for fake engagement and baiting instead of genuine discourse

Yeah I mean it's good for MS but really only FH5 is an Xbox game, the rest are typically multiplat studios acquired by MS (and that takes nothing away from Machine games, Indy was excellent)

Problem is this will lead to online posturing from "influencers" saying look Sony you're so dumb you should do multiplat too, but that's just not their business model

@Gabrie Xbox is sort of integrated with PC store already, the achievements on play anywhere titles are the same. But yeah I get you, you want basically a unified interface so they both act identically. I'll be honest, it's not miles off now from my experience

@dskatter you must see the UK news online and just think "what the hell is your government doing to you"

We are wondering the exact same thing, because we certainly didn't vote for Orwellian politics!

It has a hell of a legacy to live up to, but it's unfortunately been over hyped to the point where people won't be happy unless it's a proper masterpiece now.

It'll be good, because it'll be like the first game, but probably not worth the delays!

Verrrry excited to see what the ROG is all about, MS having a stab at an OS layer optimized for handheld is a big thing

@Banjo- haha I was gonna guess at Psygnosis and wipeout, that's what become Liverpool right?

Probably would want gran turismo just with Forza dieing on its backside, but honestly I'm not really wanting any of the Sony games. Would have bought a ps5 if I did. I burned out on cinematic 3rd person action adventure story games during the PS4 era.

Still, really cool to see them at least planning for this kind of thing, I don't think it devalues the brand because it's already so, so strong

Should be a strong Gamescom, go team green!

@Nintendo4Sonic completion stats on trophies and achievements are very rarely high. Usually below 30%. Can we take from that that non game pass users also don't finish games?

Stop talking Nadella, nobody cares. We just want your grubby mitts to stay away from the game studios

@themightyant I think they all had frame pacing issues, that's always my worry with UE5 (or 4 for that matter!)

@themightyant any shooters off top of your head that use UE5? Kinda makes me think that FPS multiplayer games have their own engines for a reason

@themightyant I was just about to comment the same thing, it was too samy and lacking in variety. Unless using UE5 somehow would have afforded them more time to work on different biomes and set pieces etc

@Scrubchub of course they would, who would pay £/$70 for Spiderman 2 if you could pay 15/20 and complete it in a month.

I know the internet is a crappy place for discourse a lot of the time, but I just hate this sentiment that ps buyers sometimes act morally superior based on their choice of console (I know, it's not all of you ps buyers!) It really wouldn't cost me much to trade in my XSX and get a ps5, it's a choice I've made because it suits my gaming needs better and it costs me a heck of a lot less

@Scrubchub obviously you have to buy the games if you want the latest and greatest on ps5, and I think because the choice isn't there (like with GPU) then some people end up with a tribal mentality that game pass users and the option to have it is killing the industry. Xbox bad, PS good etc.

Like, if that turns out to be the case MS will stop doing it and I'll happily stop using it, but we're not some inferior beings incapable of rational decisions on how we consume games and services. On forums you get "Xbox trains users not to buy games" like we're Pavlov's dogs!

@Titntin good life lesson. Never trust what someone says they'll do, look at what they do do and trust that it will happen again.

Please straighten up your messaging MS and for the love of god reduce console pricing before GTAVI hits if you want to sell anything

@themightyant yep, that critical period once stock availability increased post COVID Sony had good games and MS didn't.

Thankfully that's now flipped and us formerly oppressed minority Xbox users are fit to burst!

So weird when there's such a big swing in scores. Wuchang looks like a game that rewards people for taking their time, exploring and engaging with different systems but doesn't reward those who mainline it (from the reviews)

I've said this on a post before but I actually enjoyed this at 30fps. I think it suited the cinematic gameplay, and the frame pacing and motion blur were so good that it didn't even matter.

I know 60 is the gold standard now, but sometimes I just like a good 30 game

@Weebleman i feel like what we see with the Xbox ally and ally x is more important than people think. The prototype of the environment if you will 🤞

@Weebleman re: skipping Xbox for steam, I presume they're trying to find a way to run PC code on console with system level optimisation. Agree that if it's it's own OS and dev environment then it'll be overlooked for the most part like this gen

@IOI yeah that seems more likely. Seems like a rare opportunity for Xbox to say absolutely nothing, avoid any additional press coz for Mahler to do a social media statement like that he's possibly begging for marketing or game pass costs

@IOI surely the port cost of a fairly simple isometric game can't be that off putting though? This isn't some AAA behemoth that will sell millions on ps5 and switch

@Trmn8r I don't think this smells like an exclusivity deal, the game simply doesn't have enough reach for that to be worthwhile

I'm not a fan of these being added later. When a game is built in 1st person it's usually for an aesthetic reason (much easier if other way round from 3rd to 1st person)

Like with indy, I loved it being 1st person and I wouldn't want it any other way because it was a design choice

Well this is certainly...a feature

What are the market conditions that they don't like? I know I know the obvious one of "games don't sell on Xbox" but any further insight from Moon?

I buy games and turn game pass on for short periods of time when something I want is on there. I wouldn't use GP for something like Metaphor coz that would take me too long to finish, but I subbed for 3 months to play SoM and E33 with no regrets as I'll "beat the banker" with those being shorter games

Studio famed for incredible games with engrossing stories and weird but wonderful worlds makes live service game, flops.

You don't need to do this remedy, just stop.

@Millionski always been intrigued about a user point of view, did you use the ps5 pro with a VRR TV and oled all the bells and whistles etc?

It always looks to me like the upgrades aren't totally worth it (subjective of course, I'm sure there are many happy users)

@Banjo- oh man I hate the digital card thing from Nintendo, I understand it from a cost perspective but it makes the switch 2 lose a bit of magic for me. Unless CEX still do good trade in on them!

Yes, I agree windows looks like the direction of travel, much as it's hard to see how they do it I'm still intrigued by the thought of it man

@Banjo- switch oled, nice!

The doom and gloom from my perspective is just the total lack of clear messaging from Xbox. And I know that's likely down to MS as the parent company, but with Sony you know that next gen you'll be able to get a ps6 and you know what it is, no drama.

I personally find it exciting because it's the first time we're moving to a new gen with no idea what we could get. But it doesn't sell the brand too well!

@Banjo- did you 100% it? That adamantoise took some time and willpower for me lol