theduckofdeath

@GuyinPA75 Digital Foundry would like a word with you.

@InterceptorAlpha

"While he didn't directly fill the position, he is essentially Major Nelson's replacement with a manager title attached."

I do NOT think that is accurate.

Of course, Spencer needs Satya and board approval for large purchases like ABK and even Bethesda. Otherwise, I think he is afforded a fair amount of latitude in recent years. The situation that led to these studio closures is a confluence of issues. Chances are the Xbox team were ultimately directed or put under significant pressure.

Phil Spencer has probably been chugging Pepto for a while.

Honestly, how many of the people in an uproar bought or at least played through Hi-Fi Rush or GWT on any platform? The Evil Within 1 or 2? I bought and completed TEW 1 & 2 on PC near release. I completed Hi-Fi Rush on Series X Game Pass. GWT is a game I waited the year for not just for it to hit Xbox, but for improvements to the PC version that never came. I still have not made the time to play it.

@Fishmasterflex96 Ninja Theory explained in their "making of" video for the first Hellblade why they keep the price $50 and do digital only releases.

@Weapon_Wheel I am pretty sure MS has been there the whole time, granting and revoking permissions and funding. Xbox did not gain any new studios until 2018 (a deficit stretching back to the 360 days). Scalebound, Quantum Break, ReCore, Fable 4, and Crackdown were long in development and a paltry set of titles. Most of these games either never arrived or were not in the greatest shape when they did.

While a company needs to keep spending in check, Phil and crew has been handcuffed for much of their run. He was promoted after the Kinect investment went down to the toilet.

@TakeItEasy I've played on PC since PS1 launched. All platforms have their uses. I play on PC and Xbox now (along with Steam Deck). The convenience of having PC and a machine in the living room with "Play Anywhere" is welcome.

An alarming percentage of non-MS published games that I have bought have come to Game Pass. Oh well.

@shoeses This should never have been. SE skipped Xbox and PC. That is tantamount to seeking bankruptcy in 2024. Sony was paying hundreds of millions of dollars a year to keep games off of those platforms. Games that would not have skipped PS, anyway. The more you avoid a platform, the more your undermine chances of ever building a following there.

Look at Koei Tecmo; you take a Game Pass deal for Wo Long, then think it wise to make Rise of Ronin exclusive to PS? What were they thinking? Millions of Wo Long players would picked RoR on impulse.

No third party game should ever skip PC.

@Gamer_X Win an an even number of rewards and you're good; win an odd number, and it's curtains for you.

Obsidian has other projects in the works, unlike poor Tango. No need to staff up and long hammer out project details before beginning development one day.

@BRT15 That's how I've felt about games for years. The last time I could say I was excited for a game was MGS5. I'm older, though.

Regardless, I'll watch the show and it will be interesting to see what is presented. HB2 will be here in a week or so.

@Lanmanna I'm not defending a big corp, I am defending reason. Tango's last four game releases are not what you would call financial successes. Hi-Fi Rush was critically acclaimed, deservedly. Great...but few played it and even less bought it.

If HFR had not been in GP, I sincerely doubt I would have bought it, and there is no guarantee I would have played it (and I'm not alone). GWT had relatively poor performance (sales and compute) on Series X and PC.

There are people at MS whose job is to scrutinize spending and make sure everything is on the up & up. ABK will make the money back; that doesn't mean you ignore the studios that are not profitable. We don't know what state Tango was in, we only have rumors of a desire to staff up for a new project (Hi-Fi 2?). That means it would not be delivered for 3-5 years (3 being courteous since it is a sequel). The studio did not have the staff on hand.

So, MAYBE an unprofitable studio needs time & money to staff up for a sequel to a game that did not sell. Had Bethesda not been acquired, who knows if HFR would have even released? Or that Tango would not have been closed sooner? It is easy to make demands when someone else is footing the $100 million bill. You and I (and probably Xbox leadership) would say do keep Tango, however, they all answer to someone.

The most important fact is that we don't know what the hell happened. We only have bits of information.

@GeeEssEff It is pretty easy to setup XCloud/XPlay on Steam Deck. I've done it twice manually; there are probably scripts to do it for you. There are plenty good guides. Pretty much you install Microsoft Edge as a Steam app, then configure it to launch straight to the XPlay page, at the Steam Deck resolution. It works really well and looks good.

The thing to consider is that if you set the Deck down or let it go to sleep, you might disconnect. Or XPlay may boot you for being idle. Best to just sign out explicitly then and sign back in.

@Banjo- The media keeps saying that Xbox has poor messaging on mixed messaging. On the exclusivity topic, they have said ad nauseum that it will be on a case-by-case basis. The response it ask them about each game and say the messaging is unclear. Xbox will not commit to absolute exclusivity for any title because someone will bring up a quote from 5-10 years ago.

I want Xbox games to exclusive (console & PC) more than most. However, I understand that it is a business (where goals are to profit) and has overlords. The ABK deal and the nature of ABK's success brought up the uncomfortable question, "Why NOT publish our games on more platforms?"

@GeeEssEff Works well for me, these days. Sometimes the picture quality can vary. We're on WiFi, after all. If your WiFi is poor, that is not going to help. I've played a few games start to finish. Usually, I use it when I don't want to install a game, or to play GP on Steam Deck.

@nomither6 He's a CEO; that is a large part of his role. He's the public face of the company. All CEOs are beholden to the board.

@SolarSailor What do you mean "no plan what to do with them?" The plan has always been pretty obvious and buying ABK was not Spencer's unilateral decision.

@OldGamer999 That quote is silly — all the platform holders are doing it for money. They are not artist.

@Krazee5255 Current Game Pass Ultimate becomes "Penultimate." A new Game Pass Ultimate tier is installed with CoD (3-day early access) and a higher price. Thirty-five dollar package with battle pass, coins, weapons, skins, and 5-day early access. Sell the $35 package on all platforms.

@VoidPunk It's like they are not satisfied with half a glass of water and are trying to make two full glasses out of it. No amount of pouring one into the other will do it.

Porting to PC was inevitable and I was all for that years before it happened. Porting to PS is untenable. I understand how they got there, but no. It creates the notion that any game could go over. Xbox is already missing too many 3rd party titles for that not further impact console sales, which is the reason you're porting in the first place.

@101Force I don't think there is anything "wrong" with Game Pass. There was nothing wrong with Hi-Fi Rush (in fact it was excellent and praised), and still it failed to sell on three platforms. People simply choose not to subscribe on PC. On console, there is a 30 million potential subscribers plus whomever still plays on an XB1. PC players won't be indoctrinated to the Xbox ecosystem and thus are more difficult to bring in.

As for playing on PC, I've been doing that since '95.

@Tecinthehead Sony has always kept those second party studios locked down in publishing deals.

@BacklogBrad I would tweak you offer a little bit; 3-4 years between new Fallout/ES games and we keep just about everything else.

How about this; don't add the new CoD to Game Pass Ultimate. Just leave things status quo in that regard. Keep all your earnings nice and neat. Same model as before, only the profit goes to Xbox. If they roll the dice and launch the new CoD in GPU, somebody is going to take the heat if profits are not as expected.

Add some kind of CoD perks for GPU subscribers. Battle Pass, discounts on the new title, coins or whatever, maybe skins. Add last year's CoD to GPU when the new one launches. Use the steady, predictable profit to fund other ventures.

@101Force The things is, there is cap on Game Pass growth. There's only about 30 million consoles out there, and not everyone will have a player sign up. Not everyone will stay subbed continually. It is not like Netflix where all you need is a screen, and you could even listen while driving — games are interactive. NTM, PC players are more numerous but not as readily accepting of a sub service.

@OldGamer999 Xbox can't just keep stuffing games into Game Pass. When it was the Forzas, Gears, and Halo every couple of years it was one thing. Once these new games start rolling out at a steady pace, they will have to reconsider — and not just the financial guys. I was never convinced Xbox would launch the new CoD into Game Pass — that would be a ballsy gamble. Even the previous year's CoD continues to make serious profit.

As far as a GPU price hike, my sub has been pure rewards points for a year and expires 9/27 at the moment. I've been expecting them to throttle back the points for a while.

@carlos82 Yeah, selling consoles is their best chance on increasing likely adopters, and sales have slowed down.

The offline patch was reportedly due this month and the DLC in October...Just got to say, I can't deny suspicions that the team asked Xbox for more time (again) and subsequently caught the axe in the forehead.

@Nic-Noc20th-C I had some fun with Redfall despite it having serious development & design issues. Total playtime was 45-65 hours, though I can't be sure because even the playtime clock was bugged.

@MaseSco What the closure of Tango reminds me of, unfavorably, is the robotic nature with which MS closed the MechAssault studio after the second game underperformed.

@NEStalgia That's pretty much where I'm at with the platform as well. MS provides so much news for these sites/YTbers because the company has massive potential as well as erratic spurts. The porting rumor fiasco, slow response, and eventual ports were point where I began to disengage. After a decade of watching Xbox pull itself back together, have another good Direct and new games on the way, they throw the car in reverse gear at speed.

I still play some games(s) for a bit each day (more consistently than I play on PC), Game Pass doesn't expire until almost 2028, and I'm not selling anything. I'll probably buy the next console just because. There is an overall disinterest, however, where platforms tend to foster the opposite. Capcom releases great games (for my entire life, and I'm older now), and have been on great streak, but I never think to visit a Capcom site, you know?

@mousieone Makes me wonder if in the last 6 months MS told Xbox to make some cuts. "If Hi-Fi Rush does not sell on its third platform, we close the studio." Arkane-Austin's days were numbered.

If I remember correctly, from the ABK trial, the fiscal year for MS ends in June. That is probably weighs in on the cutting of those drowning and those treading water now.

@NEStalgia I sincerely doubt any company would relinquish the foothold that MS has in gaming, and that includes the console. The nonsense of "Xbox is in third place" or "Xbox isn't successful" or "consoles don't matter" is online trash talk. Google and Apple would like to have that third place. Thirty million consoles sold is significant. Day & date on PC is significant.

Unfortunately, Tango titles were not exactly lighting up the charts prior to acquisition, and the same goes for Arkane Austin. Greenberg's tweet about Hi-Fi likely referred to MAU metrics and internal Xbox metrics. MICROSOFT metrics are a whole different story. Business factors and decisions are not frozen in time or etched in stone. I think the ABK acquisition changed a lot between Xbox and MS.

@mousieone Toys for Bob had or raised enough money to buy themselves out. Also, I think MS/Xbox retained the IP and some other assets. TfB now has a contract to develop a game for Xbox. Maybe the cards did not fall in place for this to be an option for Tango (them being a Japanese studio may also factor in). Booty's email said that no one from Tango was joining other Bethesda teams.

@Fenbops He can't speak out or reverse course (too late for that), he works for MS. He can say he regrets what happened. I doubt he could even say he fought against any of the closures, publicly. All he can do is still around and try to do the best he can internally.

@Grackler So, in the sentence I quoted, you are stating things you have no knowledge of as fact. The reason people always pull Iwata taking a pay cut one year out their a@@ is because it does not happen. Not often, certainly not in America. Sometimes execs have to take pay cuts, don't get bonuses, or are targeted for layoffs because of high salaries. That is about it.

Companies are not in the business of paying people who don't have tasks to work on. None of Tango's last 4 games were great financial successes. I wish MS could have given them a new project, but would it sell? People did not buy their games in large numbers and that cannot be ignored.

Nintendo has children captive so they can sell a Fischer-Price console for $300-$350 for 7 years. The games can be simple and have short dev cycles. Sony and MS don't have that luxury.

@GADG3Tx87 If MS didn't buy those studios, there were not many other or better options? Embracer, anyone? Google? Bethesda and ABK were looking to be sold. They would have closed studios and enacted layoffs, perhaps sooner and on a grander scale. Unfortunately, the bail out didn't go the way we all wanted. I don't have all the information, regardless, I think they should have kept Tango.

The Perfect Dark situation (if these rumors are true) is just baffling. First, they had too many studio heads and visionaries; seems like the picked one. Then they brought in Crystal Dynamics. Great — they released out 3 Tomb Raider games in 4-5 years. So why can't the make & release SOMETHING?

@Grackler "No exec pay cuts beforehand, no attempts to sell the studio to the staff."

You are not privy to any of that information. Those are private business matters. We only know of the public information.

@GamingSince84 Why are people pushing this "plastic box" rhetoric? YTbers makes sure to toss it in the script, it doesn't make sense. It's a cookie--cutter talking points.

The moment there are two consoles targeting the same audience, they are at odds. Platforms need exclusives to differentiate themselves and spur creativity. If your platform is has a smaller installed base, it assuredly needs exclusives, more than ever. Releasing games on PC is wise, releasing on the competing platform is confused.

Porting Hi-Fi Rush was probably more of an ultimatum than a test.

@Kooky_Geezer Redfall didn't just flop (deservedly), it decimated the studio. Much of the Prey team left during Redfall's development.

@MrReaps What is this "Microsoft Gaming" suddenly being pushed? More rumors out of the rumor mill? That is a horrible name, BTW. Just stick with Xbox, no matter the hardware.

@Reaper_cet Because most people are selfish and self-centered in their thinking, especially regarding esoteric or obscured business factors. YTbers dumb everything down and cater to their audience (the more they amp it up the more money they make). The fuels the engine and the cycle continues.

Closing Tango hurts. No doubt they simply were not making money (despite multi-plat status). I like their games and wish there was a way to hold onto them. No doubt the squeeze is on Xbox due to the upfront expenditure for ABK. That money won't be recouped to 8-10 years, though its far better than having it sit in banks.

Arkane Austin, well...Redfall was not soon forgotten. Prey was great, yet a commercial failure.

The other closures/dissolutions would have gone unnoticed.

@P3nguinprisM @abe_hikura I have serious doubts about that. Bethesda was looking to be acquired because going it alone was becoming risky. They would have been forced to make some cuts, far sooner than the MS acquisition.

Now, would Hi-Fi Rush have done better if not in Game Pass? That is hard to say — Game Pass was and is automatic advertising and caused many people to give it some consideration. Far greater numbers of people dismissed it and advertising wouldn't have done much to prevent that. I can admit that the announcement mid-show of a "rhythm game" was not immediately palatable to me. Chai's character design was also unappealing.

However, Hi-Fi was in GP and I started the download before the show completed. It turned out to be a great game. Would I have bought it otherwise, most likely not.

@rustyduck What I think is a major problem was raising the spectre of "no more exclusives." Specifically, porting games to PS a year later, sooner, or ever. That will hang over them and deter people from picking up the next machine. MS pulled this3.5 years into the Series S|X gen, after selling 27-30 million units. What happens after two years of living under this threat (and any ports during that period), then expecting to launch a new console to higher demand?

The closure of Tango is another major blow to public interesting in Xbox.

@GamingFan4Lyf Come on. This news is unfortunate, but let's be serious.

The expenditure for ABK will take years to recoup (and then profit) and I think those financial types are impatient. I imagine if the PalWorld devs were owned by a large publisher and put out one more miss before Palworld, they would have been canned, too.

@Mooky779 I played all of Sea of Stars on Steam Deck through XPlay/XCloud. My only gripe is that you still can't play your own games that way, so I have to consider this when buying games.

I've seen multiple YTbers blame Series S for "holding back" the Xbox and in the same breath, say Xbox should put a portable in the place of Series S next gen. How wide do you think the performance divide would be then? They could even shrink a current Series S down (with more RAM, of course) 4 years after launch.

Don't care much about there being letterboxing. I will probably bounce between Series X on the big screen and PC with 3440x1440 monitor.

@Trmn8r Some information came regarding how Redfall came to be. From what was reported, the studio and/or Bethesda wanted to make a co-op live service type of game. Only they didn't know exactly what that meant. As well, this was not the studio's (Arkane's) expertise.

The plan never solidified, and dev became disillusioned and apathetic. As time went on, many developers quit. I believe it was reported that 1/3 of the studio left. Those remaining were hoping MS would free them by cancelling Redfall, once the acquisition was complete.

I have a Xbox/Windows PC save that is over 11 days of playtime and Steam save that is very early (got coerced into the Crimson fleet storyline for a 600-credit bounty ). I will continue with both.

@fbnaulin Todd is the director/visionary and also the public mouthpiece — it is a difficult position to be in. I think he was on that Lex Friedman guy's show months before release. He said they were focusing on 30 FPS but did not rule out other modes at a later time. Can't remember if vehicles were brought up.

Obviously, if there was no 30 FPS lock at launch, the framerate would have been all over the place, which does not look good. They've now had the time tweak the game so the avg FPS is good enough to cap at 60 FPS. It will probably still bounce around at times.