WildConcept6

@Ricky-Spanish I'm not sure Xbox would actually track it as their revenue. It'd probably just be a value added to Windows OEM. The ROG Xbox Ally is still a 100% ASUS produced device just with Microsoft's help, mainly on the software side. Microsoft probably cares less about raw sales and more about having an optimized proof of concept for their Xbox gaming mode. I thinn they want to make the Windows OEM more valuable and keep pace with valve whose now selling SteamOS to OEMs (and it both costs less than a windows license and gives a more optimized better performance gaming experience than windows). After the Xbox Ally launches, they'll bring the software updates to all handhelds. And I imagine further down the line we'll see more Xbox named windows gaming OEMs

I think some of the comments are missing that this is a prediction of a decline for Q1 of 2026 and Q1 2026 is OCTOBER 30, 2025. This is how businesses do stuff for... reasons (idk). The earnings report that just came out was for Q4 2025. And this is year over year, so Microsoft is saying that compared to Q1 2025 (October 2024), Microsoft is expecting less consumer spending overall across all their services. That makes sense. @BAMozzy hey don't feel bad about it. None of us can ever truly escape the dreaded politics or reality of what's happening in the world. There's also nothing to get dramatic about when these are the facts. Compared to last year the global economy is facing a lot more challenges and as a result people have less discretionary income to spend on what's ultimately a hobby. Gaming is also just not pumping out as much compared to last year (last year really felt like all those games that got delayed by COVID were coming out). GTA VI probably would've changed these predictions if not for the delay. And prior to October Xbox doesn't have any huge releases. COD is a November title this time around and even Keeper and Ninja Gaiden would've been out barely a week (well not even that for Keeper). There's also no new hardware (the ROG probably won't be sold by October 30 (maybe pre-orders will be out) but regardless I don't think that'd be counted in gaming revenue; probably windows OEM revenue as it's an ASUS manufactured, distributed, and sold product; ASUS, not Xbox Or Microsoft)).

The real significance to me is that gaming revenue has grown 10% you and we're now PUT of the massive ABK gains honey moon period. This shows Xbox's ability to grow beyond the massive boom they got from ABK and that it was indeed an investment.

The biggest concern from the earnings report overall is how well Microsoft is truly doing. Azure alone made 75 billion USD (that's how much ABK cost; more technically). And then you see all the recent cuts and the fact Satya Nadella himself said they were to "restructure for AI" and Microsoft's own researchers keep putting out jobs in danger of being replaced by AI. Phil Spencer as well stated that the Xbox layoffs and cancelations were coming at a time when Xbox was growing and doing better than ever. It's just all so bleak on the business and workplace side. As a consumer I can sit back and enjoy the games, and it's been a great year for first party releases from Xbox. But as a human being it's hard not to feel concerned in these times. It's certainly not just gaming, but the gaming industry is not immune and is a constant reminder of what's happening.

@huroma Its concerning, but not in the way people keep saying. For one we already know raw hardware sales are at least 30 million in 5 years. That's not bad. These are year over year percentage declines. What that means is that less people bought an Xbox this quarter this year than they did last year in the same quarter. That honestly doesn't say much when we don't know how many people bought an Xbox then. That's like saying I have 10% of "question mark". Then there's a LOT of reasons why hardware could be selling less this year in this quarter vs last year in the same quarter. Time is the most basic reason. With every year the Series consoles get older and people anticipate a new generation. This year also unfortunately saw price increases due to Trump's policies. Then there's the fact that last gen is still holding on. We saw PS's top sellers chart and a non zero number of games are still on last gen (GTA V & Minecraft) and some others are releasing cross Gen (COD). And that's only the paid games. There's still Microsoft's trash consumer marketing and poor regional support. And that's all BEFORE cloud gaming, day one PC, and multiplatform console releases. I think those three reasons in particular aren't really contributing as much as people want to think.

I'm disappointed in how nothing Xbox did or Playstation or Nintendo for that matter truly revitalized the console space. Like the best success we can point to is Nintendo, but they didn't really. They sorta just combined their handheld and home console market consolidating their user base. And that brought them up from the pitiful 13mil of the WiiU (in five years) and like 80 mil of the 3ds, but in terms of "growth" pure hardware sales are still much lower than peak for everyone. The Wii sold 100m and the DS like 150+ (so low balling 200m total) and yeah those would've had double dipping, but that's still another console sale. Nintendo doesn't have those number anymore and costs keep rising, so we see that cost put on gamers. We keep seeing the same for Xbox and PlayStation.

I don't suspect Xbox will go away. Microsoft reports higher player engagement than ever and higher spending than ever on their consoles specifically, but what Microsoft can't (none of them can) is really pull in NEW gamers. So stuff like subsidizing hardware and being aggressive with it makes less and less sense. I suspect Xbox will never do something like the Series S again nor will they do a mid gen upgrade like the Xbox One X. But they will probably continue to do their own proprietary hardware because that's a strong consumer base that continues to prove their value to the business. Then they'll just try to expand through a wider ecosystem that includes cloud and PC and other console platforms. My concern as a consumer is price related, but that's already worsening. Otherwise I don't expect Xbox consoles to disappear anytime soon.

It's the law so what can you do, right? Right? What I hate about all these "protect the children online" laws and initiatives, is that they don't work. At all. Everyone involved knows they don't work. Everyone's already talking about the privacy concerns with big companies, so I'll skirt that and just say kids are smart. And they're also very good at sharing information with one another. Already we have reports about these systems being bypassed and tricked. The only real way to improve online safety is to educate children and insist that their guardians are attentive and pay attention to what's on their phones (maybe don't even give them phones at early ages).

@HardRockGamer Not saying they need to hurry up or anything, but part of marketing is setting accurate expectations. Announcing it so early and Hollow Knihjt being so good (not like that's a bad thing, but it is a reality Hollow Knight didn't have to deal with) is just naturally going to set unrealistic explainations up for some people.

@Millionski ABK is your biggest sign that consolidation in of itself is a sign that the industry is shrinking. With that size of aquistion a lot of fat will be trimmed to bring it under Microsoft Gaming slowly. It'll be a while before it even feels incorporated. Plus the whole process was complicated by the FTC and CMA. And it also still came as the industry was shrinking and facing turmoil. Microsoft specifically is in a transitionary period moving toward their next cash cow (AI). Microsoft execs now probably wish they used that money for AI 🙃.

Also oh boy Sony's aquistions. They really got played by Bungie. Their live service push in general is a tragic tale. As consumers we can question ABK, but as a business Microsoft now has COD. They instantly got a new money boon. Sony now has... Destiny and oh gosh marathon. And Concord was reduced to atoms. Part of me wonders that if Live Service had succeeded and a few more Sony titles dotted that chart, then would they have even ported Helldivers 2.

Ya'll Forza Horizon 5 is four years old. Playground deserves all the flowers. Also, speaking of we seriously do need to acknowledge how many of those games are also super old. Minecraft and GTA V were literally originally Xbox 360 games. People talk about the state of the industry, and I mean there it is: most people are still playing the same handful of games. That's gotta make it so hard for any new individual game to succeed. It's probably a big reason why so many publishers are doing multiplatform day one.

Also worth acknowledging is that this really isn't all sunshine for Playstation. One of those games on that list they get 100% of the sales from and the others they get only 30%. I mean as a platform holder they do still get that benefit, but also as a publisher they are funding the development for their own games, funding all costs associated with distributing them, and finding increased competition on their own platform. If Xbox had kept all those first party games exclusive (including the newly acquired ones) except let's say COD and Minecraft, then how many gamers would abandon PS and how many would just have bought more PS exclusive games that Sony funded and gets more money from? I mean that's incredibly difficult to calculate and compare, but it's something to think about. Companies compete on their own storefront. Consumers only have so much time and money (and both are getting squeezed now more than ever), so is it necessarily a good thing to Sony how much time and money Microsoft is capturing on Playstation?

@Kilamanjaro it's been really strange recently with the "rollouts". The incubation time in the insider rings is much shorter than usual and less consistent than usual. I'm alpha skip ahead and didn't get game hubs until like right before public release. Cloud gaming on PC and play history also only just came to insiders a few weeks ago, but they're already pushing those out to general availability. It's... odd. They aren't getting that much time for feedback and bug fixes.

@kmtrain83 That can be said of any company and unfortunately the current laws in place give them all the power over not just our game licenses but even the hardware used to play them. The sentiment of gamers was NEVER in question. Nintendo today is selling the most consoles and still spitting in that sentiment. It's gotten to the point that a government is fighting them on the power they hold to brick consoles. Publishers in general haven't hesitated to shut down games to save on overhead. These companies aren't your friends. For now, I look at where Xbox is and has been and that makes me secure in its existence. Microsoft makes billions off Xbox. The console market on the whole I'd struggling to grow and Xbox isn't stealing any market share, but existing customers are spending more money and more time on Xbox. I don't see them just deleting such a large source of revenue on a whim. I can see them trying to convert existing customers and scaling back Xbox, but even then the length of life the Xbox One has had and confirmed existence of the next Xbox tells me it'll be a long time before I need to worry.

Expanding that, I really couldn't imagine buying a game on a console other than Xbox anymore. Like if it's not Xbox then I buy it on PC. Free cloud saves alone are too much of a necessity. Then any Xbox play anywhere title is an automatic Xbox buy for the maximum value + longevity. It's an even bigger boon with some games getting released in the owned games cloud gaming group.

@Millionski You know next gen is in 3 years by the most conservative estimate? I say that because the lines are already blurring so much even just internally. 1.5 years between launch and ports isn't that long and that time frame will only shorten as time goes on.

Also, one could argue that it's because Sony sees Microsoft's Xbox as such important competition that we're seeing a multiplatform platform push. Sony cannot be completely okay with their own store being controlled by Xbox owned games to the extent it is. Sony does get 30%, but that's all. And people have limited funds and time to spend on gaming. One could argue that Sony is now fighting for attention on their own store. Well that's not even an argument, we know it's the case. This is why they put so much money into live service in the first place. It's just that now, Xbox is a major player on the PS store. Who knows what "seeing XYZ" as competition could even look like by the PS6.

@Trmn8r It's already really unlikely it'll live up to the hype because of how long people have had to fester expectations. This is Starfield all over again. Or what will happen with Elder Scrolls 6.

Guys! Have some faith. Pretty sure they can't do after 2026 now because they have deals with both Xbox and Nintendo. The latter one is the Disney or Apple of gaming. I don't want to see them get sued into idk losing the gameplay patents for Silksong or whatever since Nintendo is like god in this sphere now.

Anyway, I was never into Hollow Knight massively, but I love that one YouTube channel all about Silksong news. For their sake I'm actually going to ignore what I just said and say I hope the game doesn't come until next Gen 😂.

I'm super curious to here how the Xbox mode experience is. I already have a lenovo legion go and just plan to make use of that when the update comes next year. I'm hyped to hear how much it optimizes the gaming experience. And even more so because whatever feedback Microsoft gets from the early adopters (Xbox ROG Ally buyers) will go into making my experience better once the update becomes more generally available across PC handhelds!

I actually don't think old single player game ports are too unlikely. Sony has put a lot less prestige on those games this generation. The sales they make on their platform alone don't fully justify the increasing budgets of those games. And the PC ports have done REALLY well without impacting console sales. It really just gives them a free remaster that they don't have to remaster. Like God of War 2018 is 7 years old now. People would've been more likely to buy a PS for Helldivers 2. So why not? Plus I think that if Playstation themselves are saying exclusives aren't as worth it anymore, then it's actually very likely that Disney pulls an MLB and tells Sony that they HAVE to port the licensed Marvel games. Or maybe Sony looks at those games' margins (they were really bad according to leaks) and say that between the license costs and the exuberant dev costs, they really want to sell those games a few million more times. And again Spider-Man 1 and Miles Morales aren't selling PS consoles anymore.

Of the live service stuff, well I mean they'd need to have live service stuff worth putting on other platforms first. I think a part of why they're doing Helldivers 2 so early (it's only been two years) is because they've been investing so much money in live service only for it almost all to blow up in their faces. Like if Bungie wasn't terrible and Marathon was on track to release, would they be this aggressive with multiplatform? Or would they just leave it Bungie and their cash cows? Instead they need to maximize their one major success. Maybe this was always the plan before marathon got messy, but regardless Sony has invested so much into live service and has not reaped that much reward from the experience. I wouldn't be surprised if the future live service games launch day one multiplatform everywhere because Sony REALLY just needs them to succeed at this point and exclusivity makes it harder for a live service online multilayer to succeed.

@Kaloudz Thank you for saying that! I'm really just someone who doesn't to stop myself from saying LITERALLY EVERYTHING that comes to mind 😂. It's not healthy.

Not sure about Among Us tbh. I just know everyone was playing it during the pandemic, and I remember that during one of the summer game fests the studio announced it did so well that they could fund other projects. But it's not something I was into so that's all I know. Haven't heard it's name in a while, so who knows maybe that was just a fad and they're bankrupt now.

Oh man, Genshin took over the world during the pandemic. I was in university at the time and everyone was playing it. I studied abroad and went to the UK (from the US) AND EVERYONE WAS PLAYING IT. There were tournaments. Like official tournaments. In university. It was one of those gacha games but also played more like a console level open world RPG. And it was available on mobile devices, PCs, and PS5s. People loved it and to me it was the sign that there really is a strong desire to play those higher quality PVE or single player games (not just PVP experiences), but reaching the audience is difficult. Most people have smartphones, but a lot still don't have consoles or a high end gaming PC. As of June, Genshin Impact (according to a quick search) has over 237 million lifetime downloads. I think that's nearly more than the total number of consoles sold this gen. What is it 150m Switches (not counting switch 2), 75+ PS5, and 30+ Series X|S? Okay, so it's not quite more but it being close is wild. Granted it is a free mobile game, but that's kinda the point. That's where the industry is seeing massive numbers, and that matters a lot to the future of traditional gaming.

@DaveTheRave What does "it" refer to in response to my comment?

@Millionski Yh, I saw that. I knew they'd be making this move after Helldivers 2, and it seems like they're preparing for more multiplatform endeavors. The focus of the job listing is in maximizing financial success, so they'll probably be looking at what makes sense to port to what platform, when to port it, and how to market it so it has the best sales. To me this is a battle for control Sony has been losing this gen. It started with their third party partners increasingly choosing more platforms (some publicly calling an exclusive deal a mistake (well square)), then MLB the Show their own licensed game being forced to go to Xbox, and that was all while they pursued multiple platform releases themselves for switch and mostly PC. And now Helldivers 2 on Xbox. I think especially after their live service push failed, which was their massive plan to counteract the stupid small margins on their flagship single player games and maximize profits on PS, they've just recognized that they can't sustain themselves on exclusives like they once could. Exclusives just aren't as valuable anymore (they aren't leading to as many new console sales), but they have become more expensive to make.

@OldGamer999 With Nintendo the biggest thing is that they're just fine being small. Like you have to realize that even though the switch had the most successful raw hardware sales, Nintendo makes the LEAST amount of total revenue out of all three. They've been making less than Xbox since like the Xbox One, that utter failure of a console. Now margins are their own thing, but the difference in gaming revenue is massive (like several billion last I checked a couple years ago (a quick search, so not sure how accurate, said Nintendo reported 8 billion gaming revenue last and for comparison pre-ABK Xbox was 15 billion on average and now they're at a 20 billion average)). They're fine with their size though. They aren't a four trillion dollar software company that needs to convince their shareholders why gaming is a good investment nor are they a 150 billion dollar hardware company that needs to do the same. Both Microsoft and Sony are bigger companies with bigger ambitions that answer to shareholders who want to see a bigger return on advancement. Nintendo is just a well positioned much smaller company with a strong loyal fan base. It's not about what these companies need; it's about what their real owners (shareholders) want. Nintendo is incredibly well positioned FOR ITS SIZE and that's why they aren't in a rush to fall in line with the rest of the market. Actually looking at the change in market cap for Nintendo from last year to this, they're still below both other companies but they had a massive bump, so again they're probably really happy. They have all their merchandising and their movie and IP are doing well and Pokémon is literally the most valuable IP in the world. They're like the little big guy. And the little big buy is happy being less big than everyone else.

@Banjo- Not really weird. That's called the vocal minority and it's present in literally everything. Generally speaking the people you see squabbling about anything online are the vocal minority. Most people don't care enough to go online and talk about something extensively. Me personally I just have a bad habit of not being able to ignore comments I feel the need to "correct" (rude shorthand of saying I'm too opinionated for my own good and I let it suck up time I could be using for something productive or fun 😅). And that's one of the types of people you'd see online. Most people usually don't care or bother. Most people aren't even really aware. Like the chronically online gamer is NOT the average gamer and especially not the casual gamer. Most people don't follow what studios are doing or give a second thought to the companies happenings.

@BattleMonkey Exactly. People aren't wrong in that Xbox is in third place and as such they HAVE to be the one to make these choices first because they're the most vulnerable to make conditions. And they're the ones under the biggest parent company who has high demands. So yeah Xbox did PC ports first and Xbox did ports to other consoles first, but it's the same end result the entire industry is moving toward. Even Nintendo will one day choose to put their first party games on more platforms. They're just the least vulnerable to market conditions being in a niche (Sony has even stated they don't see Nintendo as competition), heavily controlling game costs (their games don't cost nearly as much to make but they charge the same price as Sony and Xbox now), and just being a smaller company that doesn't care that they don't make as much money. Despite selling less hardware, Xbox has been making several billion more in USD than Nintendo since the Xbox One generation. The Xbox Series generation has sold a fifth of the Switch and yet even before ABK Xbox was reaching new heights of 16 billion USD. It's just that Microsoft as a company is always seeking more profit and game development costs along with a stagnat console market has destroyed margins and made that difficut. So now they're seeking to expand to new markets and customer bases entirely. And their data shows that doesn't harm their own console install base enough that it eats their bottom line. For the live service games their data shows that porting to PS has boosted user engagement on Xbox consoles (as well as PC). That makes the move a no brainer for the third place console during a time when new gamers aren't really picking up consoles at all.

@kmtrain83 I think that's a valid feeling: I want Xbox to keep making Xboxes. What I don't understand as valid is feeling personally betrayed because Microsoft is choosing a multiplatform strategy. I also don't understand the thinking that Xbox is going to disappear overnight when the reality is that they continue to see the most third party support ever this generation. Not to mention that PS is doing the same by releasing on Switch, PC, and now Xbox. Playstation is choosing to publish their two year old exclusive IP on Xbox due to popular demand (they aren't a charity and certainly not one for Xbox).

Xbox now isn't Atari or Sega then. The Series consoles are a "failure" at over 30 million sales in five years. That's more than most consoles have achieved in a lifetime. That's more than the GameCube did in its lifetime and OVER twice as much as the WiiU did in its lifetime. I don't want Xbox to disappear. I get that. But I also don't feel betrayed because Microsoft is choosing to pursue a multiplatform strategy when that's what the entire industry is doing. I'd feel more concerned if they tried pretending the industry wasn't changing rapidly. Gaming now isn't like how it was then. Like what even are generations? MOST games are still releasing on the Xbox One (it's been 12 years) and even the big flagships are sometimes still day one on Xbox One or will get ports. COD is still on Xbox One. We're not expecting a major shift until GTA VI next year. The Series consoles will last at least that long and the next gen Xbox (which is already confirmed) will probably see support for a minimum of 15 years. I don't expect Microsoft to abandon Xbox hardware, but I certainly think they'll be less aggressive having acknowledged people are happy where they are. I just don't feel betrayed that they're adopting a very successful business strategy that also means more people get to play some fantastic games.

Good lord Satya, what was the point of this? All he did was confirm everything everyone has been saying: Microsoft is financially doing better than ever and yet they cut their workforce, and some services, to invest in AI. What he didn't acknowledge is that everyone HATES this. This is a good time to remind people that CEOs don't work for us or even the company they are CEO over; they work exclusively for the shareholders. Long term sustainable growth doesn't really matter to shareholders. What matters is making their investment more valuable. Under this system CEOs are encouraged to cut corners and cut employees and chase trends to keep shareholders happy. I don't think this is a good move for Microsoft period, and the company has continuously given up major ground to cut corners and keep shareholders happy. I mean it works in this awful late stage capitalism kinda way, but it's not building the company for long term success as they like to flaunt. Microsoft is shooting off its own legs to invest in the current speculative hot topic. You're doing all of this Satya, to get a running start in a race that you already lost. That money could better spent setting Microsoft up for sustainable long term healthy success and growth. That money could be invested in industries like gaming, which is still the biggest entertainment industry with massive projected growth through cloud and mobile. And imagine that Microsoft could be reaping even more money now if they'd just kept with the Windows Phone. The Windows Phone, also known as the product Satya admitted was a mistake to abandon. Now Microsoft hasn't a single foothold in mobile as they try to reach consumers with everything from gaming to AI. But all that matters is the short term I guess. Satya can get a pat on tbe back when he tells how it was a bad decision to invest so much money on AI 5 years in the future.

A lot stock put into reviews scores. It makes me think back to when I was a kid. Literally all the games I played the most and had the most fun in now have like an 8 or lower. Same goes for movies. I suppose it speaks to how many options are in the industry now. Time is valuable. Something else I find really interesting is that the OG Oblivion is sitting at a 94 critic score and 8.5 user score on meta critic, and the remastered has an 80 and 7.5 in the same respective areas? That's super interesting to me, especially considering the massive vocal praise and high player numbers the game has gotten. I do like game pass for taking away the barrier in just trying games I'm less sure I'll enjoy. And it does make sense to me that with the cost of games these days and the vast array of options people have (I mean most people do just keep playing their favorite live service, so these games now have to do the extra work of tearing people away from those experiences they already love). It's also just such a change to me. Or maybe this was always the case and kid me just wasn't online enough 🤔.

@fatpunkslim tfw Xbox Series X|S now has more mainline Final Fantasy entries than any other modern console (gotta love backwards compatibility). All that's missing the remakes!

I do genuinely like Xbox Game Pass leading the charge because that service treats itself as an option. There's no gate locked exclusive GP only games and it isn't an all you can eat buffet. Imagine if PS Now was the dominant player here. Like as in before it lowered its price and added games you could download. Even now Nintendo and Sony lock backwards compatibility behind their services. Even Apple Arcade does exclusive subscription only games. The most Xbox has is the recent retro classics.

What is unfortunate though is that game subscription services won't take off until Apple and Google are forced to play ball. Xbox clearly does still want to have a mobile store and more than that native cloud gaming on their app. But both face different blocks on the apple and Google store meaning people have to seek out the web experience. An XCloud Game Pass only tier and native support on iOS and Android would really skyrocket things.

I don't think Xbox fans should be worried in general. Like even when it was suggested Sony could buy the fromsoftware parent company, do we really think Sony spends that much money on something and then makes it less valuable? In this day and age when even they've caved and porting games to PC, Switch, and now Xbox? I just wouldn't stress. All these companies care about is money and that's increasingly meaning a multiplatform game release strategy. Maybe anime viewer fans in the west should be with the empire Sony has built there with crunchyroll and funimation.

@PsBoxSwitchOwner "It will count on Xbox unlike black myth player numbers."
I'm confused and my brain insists I be not confused. What are you trying to say here?

I played it on the cloud (it's recently felt native between my fibre internet and better XCloud) and boy am I not good at souls like. Like Wo Long, I'll admire this game from afar.

@Jenkinss The technical debt and awful in game economy/store killed it a first time. Then the studio figured it out and had the content and story and everything for a great multiplayer experience.... and Xbox just ignored it. I knew Halo Infinite was dead when the Infection update wasn't at the Xbox Games Showcase that year, while games LIKE Overwatch, Eso, and F76 were there with nothing live service updates. It was confirmed for me when Microsoft cut their funding and they stopped the story cutscenes. Microsoft did not even give the game a chance.

I mean the only real difference would've been that the staff constantly changing wouldn't have to learn a new engine. But the root issue of doing that is still failing to build a studio culture. Halo Infinite was sabatoged every step of the way by Microsoft. The new proprietary engine wasn't the issue, but forcing the studio to make the next flagship game on a new engine while also using temporary workers was. 343 should've made a smaller AA Halo game first using the new engine and more importantly they should've been allowed to build up with permanent staff. I feel like we saw the same issue with The Initiative. You can't make a brand new studio and tell them their first project is a AAAA worthy flagship title based on a beloved IP. The studio needed to build an internal culture first and learn how its creatives work together.

@Millionski I'm curious, do you feel similarly about this with other products? Are you Android user who feels disrespected that Google Maps is on Apple products? Or YouTube? Are you an Apple user who got mad when Apple allowed RCS messaging (which does everything imessage does without being limited to Apple only devices)? Or when the Apple Office suite went to the web? Or that Apple Music and Apple TV are available everywhere? Are you a WB fan whose angry that the Gumball revival is exclusively on Hulu (a Disney owned property). Are you truly that attached to for-profit-public-stock-businesses? Because I wouldn't recommend that. Even then in comparison, how is Xbox disrespecting you? If you play their live service games then you have more people to play with. If you like the single player games then you should be happy that more people get to celebrate them. Xbox fans for years have complained about the Xbox tax. Well, here it is on display. Take for example Forza Horizon 5 which everyone said deserved more awards and fanfare. Well, now it's getting that because people are divorcing it from console war nonsense and reality is proving that Forza Horizon 5 is undoubtedly one of the greatest games of this generation (at least according to sales). Xbox isn't taking these games away from you. Nor are they backing down on supporting the console platform. The console FACTUALLY has more support from third and first parties than ever. There are more games on the platform than ever including many PS or Nintendo console exclusives people never expected. We now even have Playstation caving and choosing to port an IP they 100% own under their own publishing brand using their own studio. And Helldivers 2 is only 2 years old (being generous).

I really don't get it. There's a lot to be worried about with gaming right now, but to me this isn't it. Now the reasons behind why everyone in the industry is doing it is worth discussing. But I can't say I look at what's happening and feel like a second class citizen. I feel I'm treated better as a gamer primarily on Xbox now than I ever was on my 360 or Xbox One.

@Ken_Kaniff Nintendo ports would be so huge. It's not even about playing their exclusives, it's that native Nintendo games legally available on PC would be such a HUGE boon to game preservation.

You know what's interesting? Thus far Microsoft has supported the Nintendo Switch 2 less than Sony. And Xbox was clamoring about supporting the Switch 2 ahead of the console's release.

I do like that it's noted this is a comment, not a report, because anyone could say Microsoft is going to do more ports. Rather I'm surprised it's taking them this long to announce any. After the numbers Forza Horizon 5 did, that's it. A four year game just sold more copies in 3 months on one platform than most games sell in their entire lifetime. A four year old game is outselling the top dogs of this year on that platform. A four year old Xbox game has just outsold Sony's own award winning exclusives. If you're a business you'd be foolish to scoff at that.

This also isn't unique to Xbox. More games than ever are doing multiplatform support. Sony will 100% release more games on Xbox following the massive success Helldivers will inevitably be. I wouldn't be surprised if we see them do day one everywhere launches for their future live service games. At under 2 years, Helldivers 2 is making the jump far sooner than the biggest Xbox ports. Beyond that Sony is enjoying massive success porting both their single player and multiplayer games to PC and they'll likely achieve day and date soon. Sony's also supported the Nintendo Switch more and even let lego horizons (a first party IP if not a first party developed game) go to Switch day one.

Like logically I don't get the idea that Xbox is somehow an outlier here or otherwise doomed for doing this. A comment that consoles on the whole are doomed would make more sense, but even that wouldn't be fully accurate. The reality is that consoles have already failed in the eyes of shareholders and wider scope of the industry. Growth isn't there and margins are getting razor thin. Exclusives aren't working well enough and they aren't worth the money that Sony and Microsoft are bleeding in gaming because the overall console market is stuck. The failure goes beyond exclusives. I'd argue that exclusives are partly to blame. The market has been built on walled gardens, fragmenting customers, and weaponizing gamers against one another. That was never sustainable. Now it's biting everyone in the foot as most gamers spend all their time in free games that are available on every platform and new gamers choose PC & mobile hardware over traditional home consoles.

We priveleged on these forums and dedicated internet console hotspots have completely narrowed our world view. The biggest games are factually on everything and you can't ignore that. Microsoft and Sony can't ignore that. They both see the figures and both are struggling with profit margins and obtaining the growth that their shareholders demand. It's not some sort of conspiracy. It's not an Xbox vs Playstation thing. Literally every publisher is trending toward supporting every platform possible from day one. And money is what's pushing that. Reality isn't different on one side of the fence than the other. Playstation is still releasing former exclusives on PC and Nintendo even when they don't support Xbox as much, and regardless many of their partners are making the choice to support Xbox over doing PS exclusives. If exclusives are what determine console sales, then PlayStation is under more threat than Xbox because they've lost far more exclusives to PC, Nintendo, and Xbox.

@TheGameThrifter Huh? All of the multiplatform ports so far (and I'm not considering Doom as that was always multiplatform) have absolutely dominated on the PS storefront save pentiment and hi fi rush (two single player AA games with smaller audiences). I think also Age of Mythology but the strategy genre is niche on the whole. Xbox literally took over Playstation's storefront for a time because of those releases. What do you think average game sales are? You're talking like a 4 year old game selling 3 million copies on a single platform in the span of LESS than 3 months isn't significant. And it sold 2 million in the first month. In comparison Death Stranding 2 has sold 1 million in its first month. Assassins Creed Shadows has sold 2 million. Elden Ring Nightreign one and a half ish million copies. (all on Playstation only). Forza Horizon 5 has even sold more than Monster Hunter wilds on PS with wilds selling 2.9 million. That's insane. Monster Hunter is one of the biggest franchises globally and on PlayStation a 4 year old game outsold the latest Monster Hunter entry.

To your point, whose buying new consoles period? The entire market has stagnated. Gamers need to get out of this bubble that consoles aren't on the whole a failure and part of the reason why the industry is being squeezed right now. Consoles have failed in reaching new audiences. Even Nintendo has responded: they chose incredible price increases for their games and hardware while also controlling costs. Xbox AND Sony have taken to expanding their consumer base to new platforms. Helldivers 2 is coming to Xbox after less than 2 years. That's an even shorter exclusivity window than Forza (far shorter than Sea of Thieves). And Helldivers will be a Playstation Published game (the first on Xbox) and is an IP wholly owned by Sony (unlike MLB). At the same time third parties are abandoning Sony exclusivity in droves. Why buy an Xbox? Well, why not? There's factually more games than supporting the platform. The Playstation has lost far more exclusives than Xbox specifically because of the vast number of third party games that have ported or done day one titles. And you'd be foolish to think that Sony is going to stop after Helldivers 2 just like you'd have been foolish to think Microsoft would stop after "just those four games". At the same time Sony will only continue to support PC and they'll probably achieve day and date by the end of this gen. Even ignoring all of that, new gamers have already rejected the idea of buying consoles for exclusives: they are not buying consoles at all.

@Lup Yeah and this is a four year old game. That's nothing to sleep on. Forza Horizon 5 is four years old and it's outselling the latest Monster Hunter, Death Stranding 2, Astrobot, Assassins Creed Shadows, and Elden Ring Nightreign. That's bonkers. Forza Horizon 5 wasn't moving any new Xbox console sales after 4 years, so there's really no way to spin this other than as a massive success.

@Tasuki I'm not saying it's not obxious of Activision (well now Xbox themselves), but it does admittedly work for all our grumbling. A game like COD doesn't care how people talk about it online or even it's identity. Integrity is probably a foreign word entirely. The collabs do make them money, so they'll keep doing them. They'll frankly say whatever nonsense or treat people however they want to, until it starts to affect playtime hours. We're just a statistic to them. You're not wrong in anything you're saying. I'm just saying I'd be surprised if the suits pushing for this stuff care.

@GuyinPA75 yeah, I just specifically wanted Xbox to incorporate events into the game hub. That feature could use the visibility. Or they could bring Xbox Wire to console and incorporate it. Or Bing. Just something. The feature wasn't in insider testing long and the fact that the only thing Xbox has added since testing it is more ways to turn it off, just tells me they didn't let it cook nearly long enough. There's a lot of potential there. They could use some basic algorithms and let users customize it to really boost engagement. Stuff like relevant game news or turning it into a community gateway (maybe revitalize clubs and looking for group) or like connecting your YouTube account to show relevant video clips from your favorite creators. I don't know. Just something. I don't even dislike the feature, but it's also impossible to like because there's basically nothing there.

@themightyant I think consumer gamers have just been trained to have that sort of thinking. It's really rather tragic. The decades of console wars and generations has warped consumers into a people against each other. In order to feel confident in their purchase, a lot of gamers need to know that previous hardware has been abandoned. They'll say it's to not be held back, but umm, no. Current gen games don't look that much better than cross gen and a lot have had more technical issues because they weren't optimizing for the lower hardware. We also know that diminishing returns has been reached. And current gen now includes the Switch 2 (which people are fine (happy even) with multiplatform games releasing on). But that console is about as powerful (maybe a bit more but not much) as last gen. People really just to think their purchase is less justified when there's less "next gen" exclusives and it seems to be the console market reaping what it sowed. The PS4 and Xbox One generation really set this standard of a mass exodus of games. We had our libraries nuked and the justification was that next gen was just too powerful and games had to all be remade for it. Gamers accepted that as they had been because it became the norm. Whereas in any other industry that'd have led to death threats. And now gamers expect that and have convinced themselves that they need it. And yeah that'll happen. Especially when Sony continued to feed into that at the start of this generation saying they "believed in generations" and pushing those next gen upgrade remasters that charged way too much for minimal changes.

I see this as one of the biggest issues with gaming. Console gamers have been trained on the worst and most anticonsumer practices and now there's push back as companies, spurred by money and reality, actually get in line with what would be the expected norm in any other industry.

@Droopy I'm surprised it didn't get a bigger boost on the Pro as it's a 2021 cross gen title. It's great that it holds up so well. And heck, major kudos to it for selling this good 4 years after release.

@Tasuki I think the unfortunate reality is that this is no longer the expectation with the people who actively seek out and buy microtransactions. Games like Fortnite have trained them well. I don't disagree that it doesn't suit the game's aesthetic, but I also don't think that any of the people that care are the ones buying whaling on microtransactions. I mean do any of us even buy that many Microtransactions period? On COD in particular? Does anyone on this website. Because from what I've seen the people who even talk about Microtransactions often don't spend much on them. Microtransactions aren't targeting the people who think twice about them, and the people they are targeting spend a LOT of money on these collab cosmetics. Depending on the game and deal, companies might too. When all that money is on the table and the people that complain about it aren't contributing much to the piles of money, I just don't think publishers give a hoot about aesthetic. Game devs might, but they're also not the ones pushing Microtransactions (well most).

@Cakefish Aww, what a nice story. Most of my gaming (nearly all) has been solo, so I don't think of the effect wanting to play with others has. The most anyone else has influenced my gaming experience is a friend in high school convincing me to buy Destiny 2 on the PS4 I owned. But I don't even remember playing it. I just remember playing Battlefront 2 with them 😂.

@Kaloudz There was a big boost during COVID-19 (particularly lockdown) and that's also partially why all these layoffs and studio closures are happening. People were forced to stay home and had a lot of time (and money if they didn't need the stimulus checks for necessities (well at least in the US, not sure about other countries)) on their hands, so gaming just made a lot of sense. A lot of business people in the industry for some reason thought thought the boon was permanent. There was a ton of expansion as a result (hiring and scaling up of production), and then people didn't keep spending on gaming in droves after lockdown ended. The industry took a huge hit; they tried building an elevator to the moon but realized too late that there was no foundation. It's rather tragic because gaming was ALSO impacted by COVID-19. The supply chain for hardware was hit hard as well the game development process. It was the best chance gaming had to get new gamers and get new gamers playing new games, but the industry couldn't. Then they tried to scale up and do so AFTER THE FACT and that fumble is just costing people jobs. Though there are some massive successes from that time, namely Genshin Impact and Among Us and those games partially only really blew up because they were on mobile hardware in addition to PC and consoles (at least PS5 for Genshin). And Hoyo in particular has gained an entire massive new audience of fans excited for all their games. Maybe things would be different if companies at least kept work from home (giving people more time for hobbies), but largely they wanted people back in offices. I think even Microsoft wanted people back in offices. And 4ish years later we've mostly gone back to how it was before lockdown; there weren't any major consumer changes in the gaming industry for the most part. Except for the suits that misread the situation and scaled up production (or struck out like it's the gold rush (actually yeah, the gold rush is a great analogy here)) and now are taking a lot of people down with them. I also think some others just saw lockdown as the peak and didn't want to bother anymore. I mean, this is what I think with ABK. If you're an ABK and know you'll not grow that much anymore profit wise, then getting out of the game (business) is attractive.

For me this really begs the question of Forza Horizon 6. Forza Horizon 5 clearly still has legs, at least on new platforms, so do they really launch Forza Horizon 6 multiplatform day one in 2026 or even 2027? That'd just cannabalize the current game on PS and they could also put Forza Horizon 5 on the Switch 2. There's still a lot of money to be made from Microtransactions and plus you wouldn't want everyone to migrate to the next game after just a year. It's interesting because to me this is a case where multiplatform day one makes the least financial sense. I can believe Gears Reloaded on PS in 2025 and Gears 6 on PS in 2026 because the former isn't really recent enough to eat into the latter or vice versa. However, for Forza that's not the case. Forza Horizon 5 is still a very recent and solid game that can still make a ton as a live service game with Microtransactions on new platforms. To me financially what makes sense is dropping Forza Horizon 5 on the Switch 2 at some point and then holding off putting Forza Horizon 6 on PS and Nintendo (if the switch 2 could even run it) for 2 to 3 years.

Yeah Xbox does NOT have tbe political clout of Nintendo. Ain't no way they can jump on $80 games at the start. Everyone got mad at them when they were one of the very last publishers to do $70 games. That said it is still clear where this is going and the massive success of Mario Kart World (Nintendo exploits how loyal their fans are HARD) cements that. $80 games are coming. Xbox just doesn't have the popularity points to do them first.

@HardRockGamer Very unlikely considering the state of the industry. Microtransactions are like the vast majority of these companies profits at this point. And the public companies need to show growth with every new game for shareholders.

I hope this game was given the time it needed to cook and I hope even more than EA keeps expectations realistic. Like the rumors I heard of the game's budget and target player counts are insane and the type of thing that'd be an excuse to gut a studio for not doing the impossible.

@Kaloudz The industry has just unfortunately grown far bigger its audience. There's way too many games and too much oversaturation, and not enough consumers actually buying them. Most gamers these days spend all their time in the same few forever games. Apparently over half of the revenue Sony makes from Playstation comes from the same 10 games. There's more studios and games than ever and it's really a bloodbath for them all. At this point either the industry finds the holy grail and massively expands it's consumer base, or we'll just continue to see more shrinkage as the battlefield claims more victims. Even consolidation is a sign of shrinkage.

It's one of those features that get no fanfare because when it's working properly (implemented), it just works, and you don't notice it. Like it's not like you go in and "use" it. It's just there for games to automatically play their best version on your hardware and that's great.