WildConcept6

So Sony specifically raised prices everywhere EXCEPT the US seemingly because that's the most important region to them or the one they face the most competition from Microsoft. But then Microsoft just raised prices everywhere... yikes. Regardless it feels like next gen was given an early death. I really don't think people have disposal income like that especially right now. I'll be curious to see how the Switch 2 does on launch (and probably concerned if they do sell as good as the first switch). Especially as I thought they already had a lot of trouble with US orders specifically due to tarrifs. Anyway I'm glad I got my series consoles day one. And here I thought I'd have buyers remorse years later. Oh my naive self.

It is insane to think that I've saved money by buying my consoles at launch. These are awful and just stupid times. My only hope is that none of this can possibly be sustainable. Especially with gaming which is a commodity entertainment medium. No way sales don't take a huge hit when this is happening with so many products and services. Hopefully, the world makes a lick of sense before next gen launches and I can actually afford a new console.

@dreadful I just find this hilarious because Microsoft has owned Minecraft for exactly a decade now. Actually a little over. Also Minecraft was only fully released in 2011 so... yeah. Microsoft bought a 3 year old game (and a studio a few more years old) and has now owed it for pushing 11 years 🤓.

Anyway, Xbox is just massive. ABK made them more massive. That's it. As a publisher they have their homegrown studios and IP and the ones they've purchased and the ones they go out and support third parties in building (Towerborne, Ori, etc). They played a clever game when buying ABK (and got lucky to be approached), but yeah... I uh don't get the idea of trying to dunk on Xbox financials. They've always had gaming revenue in the billions. Like before ABK the record year was well every year of COVID when gaming was doing crazy good. They were pulling in like 16 billion USD yearly.

@Jenkinss But they are though. Like genuinely. Percentages are always year over year. What we've seen is a very standard decline as the product ages and unlike previous generations Microsoft didn't offset that with true mid gen refreshes (just a digital series X and increased storage versions). The launch lineup in 2020 has essentially been the only Xbox offering since 2020. In previous generations they might have done something like release the Series S in 2023 and then the Series XX (pro) in 2024 or 2025. However, they largely seem to have moved past that strategy for whatever reason, so the sales decline won't be offset. And God forbid Microsoft learn how to market. This generation has also been the one where last gen held on the longest so there's little reason to upgrade. On top of that Xbox is expanding beyond just the console. But all of this combined and actual estimates of Xbox console sales are about 30 million after five years. Which is exactly fine. If Microsoft does what we expect via rumors then they'll announce a new generation in 2026 and release and 2027 and I expect by 2026 they'll squeeze out to 40 million maybe more. Probably no more than 50 million. This isn't the WiiU selling 13 million in its total lifespan. Heck even the GameCube sold only 20 million. Sega consoles before the company gave up were selling like 10 million total.

When Xbox is at that point, sure, maybe hardware does go away. As of now the issue is how flat the entire console market is. That's why they're expanding so aggressively beyond the box (and it's working out incredibly well for them as they take over their main competitors store). And it's not costing them many hardware sales currently. In fact, I'd argue the slow sales this gen has more to do with the lack of proper mid gen refreshes and how the Xbox One still remains relevant (and unlike Sony Microsoft isn't really pushing users to upgrade) than any multiplatform or cloud gaming ventures. Then there's also that Microsoft refuses to learn the importance of marketing (especially regional marketing) and global support and supply chains. Microsoft has just always struggled on the consumer electronics end. As of now they are managing to have their cake and eat it too. Heck, they might even show up next generation, pull a Nintendo, and blow us all away with the best selling console (though it'd be less impressive, I mean 13 million to 150 million wow Nintendo (even the 3DS only sold like 80 million, they came back hard with the switch)). Or more likely they don't and just continue selling about the same number of consoles (I suspect 40 to 50 million especially if going forward they keep with the strategy of no mid gen refreshes and they return to shorter generational cycles) while also expanding the first party Xbox ecosystem on PC and Cloud (and mobile if they can manage to skirt Apple and Google's rules) and also taking over other platforms.

@Kaloudz Worth noting that they were doing their best financially in 2021/2022. Prior to ABK they peaked in 2022 with 16 billion gaming revenue yearly. Crazy how perception works. How we as gamers view Xbox's success and how Xbox as a business operating under the public stock company Microsoft are just fundamentally different. Xbox hasn't been a small business for a long time and they've been consistently doing well financially too. Most of the year over year dips were following COVID, but they stayed a stable gaming business pulling in 15 billion USD in yearly revenue. Now after ABK they're like one of the biggest gaming companies ever (I think THE biggest by like total employee size or total studios or something) and bringing in a steady 20 billion minimum in gaming revenue. What I'd be really curious to know are their margins, but Microsoft (and most companies) generally don't share that.

@StonyKL Microsoft wouldn't charge less for less framerates, they'd charge more for more framerates. Seriously, do not put this idea in their head. Please.

Also I find it interesting this is brought up with the Series S when the entire Xbox One family of consoles are still supported (as in you can turn them on and subscribe) and targeted with Game Pass ads... and they can no longer play every game that releases on even the console tier natively (and cloud is stuck on Ultimate which would then also mean paying for PC game pass). If anyone gets first dips at a cheaper version it's them.

@GuyinPA75 I reread this comment section and Good lord actually. You care way too much about the existence of the Series S. And like... why even? Did it run over your parents? If you have a Series X, you should be thankful the S exists to force better optimization and better performance on the X. You can even take advantage of the smaller download sizes and download the S versions with some games to save on space. But it's really not that big of a deal. Did you really want to play Wukong which struggles and has major issues on the highest end hardware precisely because of a lack of optimization?

Sounds to me like your pick is the Series S for the most authentic experience 😂.

@Vectrex I don't think that logic works when the Nintendo Switch 2 is releasing new for $450 😅. I do think in different times the PS5 and Series X would've dropped down to $400 base price and the Series S $200 but umm, these are not those times.

To the other point, I mean read this comment and then read back your comment of Series S defenders getting defensive. On one end there's "Plays fine for me." or "I can't notice framerate differences." from what the words imply are gamers who own a Series S and contempt with the performance compromise. On the other hand are comments about how the Series S model was a mistake and the worst thing ever and Microsoft should've never made it. At least we've moved on from saying it's magically ruining everything.

Yes hardware wise the Series S is a technical compromise... and? It's more than proven it's capable of keeping up with this generation. And basic pattern recognition, it struggles with the games all platforms struggle with and it excels with the games all platforms excel with. Everything comes down to optimization and how much work devs put in for a smooth experience. Oblivion has major issues all around. The game wasn't rebuilt from the ground up and all the jank and poor optimization that's always been there has returned with some added new problems. All platforms suffer and the series S suffers the most. Nothing new here. The Series S is more than capable and this whole generation has benefited from optimization of it (like with Baldur's Gate 3 (which also just added split screen co-op on the Series S)) and it is also weaker in terms of performance. I don't see the big deal. I'm just saying I've never see a Series S owner make as much fuss over the console than all the people who don't but have decided to make the console a punching bag because... reasons.

Not surprising at all considering that Xbox didn't do mid gen upgrades this time around. Anyone who hadn't already bought a physical Series X is probably more than happy to lose the disc drive.

@Matthewnh the PS5 Pro 100% signals that the next Gen PS6 will not have a disc drive in the shell. Sony has made it clear they'll just sell the disc drive separately. I suspect Microsoft will follow either next generation or the following one. Fingers crossed they do so with an external disc drive though. I mean they have to right? Right?

@TheGameThrifter You can play Blue games on the green box too! MLB the Show, Destiny, Marathon is coming up, and technically Death Stranding (depending on how you count it; it's somewhat akin to Cuphead in terms of publishing vs development).

If you really wanna blow your mind remember how MLB the Show (Sony developed and published) was day one Game Pass for like three years but wasn't on PS Plus Extra day one. Or for that matter how Crash, a former PS mascot, is now owned by Microsoft or how Sony owns Bungie.

Anyway, the answer is money. Games cost more money to make and companies want the money they earn from consoles to grow. Something you notice is that Xbox was first to release on PC and then Nintendo. Now Playstation is following suit. If Nintendo didn't think they could get away with jacking up prices for the switch 2 and Switch 2 games, we'd probably see them start to release games on PC soon. You either sell to more people or charge the customers you already have more, either way it's always all about the money.

I find this "Oh wow the PS5 Pro makes games look prettier than the Series X" comparisons funny. Like yes, tech enthusiasts the video game console that came out in 2024 starting at $700 (no disc drive or stand including) is performing better than the console that came out in 2020 at $500, which wait a minute not counting for inflation isn't that like a 40% increase. Yeah, I checked the math and 500 X 140% is exactly 700. So If I purchased a PS5 Pro, I'd be mad if every game didn't perform AT LEAST 40% better on it when compared to the PS5 Base Model and Series X.

What I really take away from the shocking tech revelations is that there's a subset of gamers who genuinely expected Xbox to make the games they publish on PS5 run worse or otherwise not take advantage of the Pro model in some move of bad faith. Which says a lot about how much the console wars ruined us.

I say June. It's a quiet month and they can shadow drop it during the literal biggest Xbox event of the year where all eyes are on them. In comparison to a random day in April which is already a packed game pass month.

I believe the game is done or near done, but I can't believe it's releasing during such an already busy time for Xbox and Game Pass. April already has South of Midnight, Expedition 33, Blue Prince (a few other indies day one), and Towerborne (and that's not including the massive backlog inclusions like Borderlands and GTA). Honestly if it does drop on a literal random day in the packed April month that'll just be dumb and kinda an insult. The leaked images make the game look like a really really good remake. No matter how they decide to market it. That could be treated like a new AAA game. For an Xbox that wants a consistent release cadence, it just seems silly to shadow drop a game like that. And Oblivion is huge. It's a staple of video game RPGs. Even non gamers know about it due to the horse armor. It deserves a proper marketing beat or at least a shadow drop at a massive event like the Xbox Games Show. Not to just casually release on a random Tuesday. Looking at prior shadow drops they've both been tied to a direct, I'd say Hi Fi Rush was a mistake to shadow drop and the sales show that (Idk why they'd repeat the same mistake for a bigger game) and Ninja Gaiden Black 2 was basically part of the marketing for Ninja Gaiden 4. Where does Oblivion logically fit in here?

Also worth noting that it wouldn't just be an insult to Oblivion. Throwing an Oblivion Remake (or remaster) into Game Pass would suck attention and playtime away from the day one titles already coming this month. Be honest, if you're currently interested in Expedition 33, Towerborne, any of the indies, or even currently playing through South of Midnight, how many of you would drop everything to play Oblivion? I honestly don't know, but I do know it's not a non zero number. I've already seen comments (with a lot of likes and upvotes) saying this on YouTube and Reddit. And Expedition 33 isn't Xbox First Party and has been getting a lot of marketing. Are they really going to screw it over for a badly timed shadow drop of basically a AAA game? Like all the leaks are pointing to it existing sure, but none of this seems like a good idea, so either the leaks aren't true or Xbox is about to make a pointlessly terrible decision for like shock value. They've even missed the Oblivion anniversary which kinda would've made sense (though even then they should've announced it during the anniversary and said it'd release in June).

Game hubs came fast (I don't think they've gone through all the insider rings yet) and I wish stream your own game would hurry up and join the Xbox App on PC.

Okay, I was wondering how they managed to include purchasing and it's because they took away remote play. Good god I hate Google. Based on what I've seen Google's policies are against being able to buy AND play in the same app, which is why the Xbox app doesn't have cloud gaming and now remote play. I honestly can't say I like this much, but it's "a" solution. Certainly cloud gaming on Android has already been pushed to the website, why not do the same with remote play? It let's them add buying at least, but it is SUCH a hollow victory. I was already frustrated when the game pass app got defunct and Android users had to do like iOS users for cloud gaming. I desperately need the courts to just open up iOS and Android. They should be treated the same as Windows. Especially when they are as big as they are (like users are in the billions; I can't stress that enough, it isn't hypocritical to have a closed ecosystem on subsidized hardware which still only services less than 200 million people at its PEAK (game consoles) vs unsubsidized hardware and operating systems that service a noticeable chunk of the world with many people having come to rely on said devices for their daily needs, heck Google and Apple's policies should be a global economic health concern for business regarding all the third parties on Google and Apple).

@darylb24 aww you beat me to it.

This sounds like plans to make ESO a more seasonal MMO which probably makes more sense money wise and maybe will lead to more updates all around. Still a little unfortunate in that I had gotten in the habit of buying the latest expansion like half a year plus later when it's 67% off. Idk how that'd work with the seasonal tract. The pass will probably be full price for longer and then I guess they'd sell everything in individual packs later? God I hope there's no fomo.

@Fiendish-Beaver To add to this they're supposedly improving the environments and art for old areas to match up with the newer content (stuff like lighting).

Xbox has consistently had the best games showcase for a few consecutive years now, so I'm looking forward to it. Each year Xbox has only grown massively with first and third party support as well. At this point if they wanted to (and I'd go as far as to say they should), they could host a massive summer convention and do a better job than Summer Games Fest. Pipe dreams aside, the best thing about this for me is it confirms the showcase + [big fall release] direct is here to stay AND it won't just be COD every year (they easily could've done that now that COD is first party and considering how much the yearly release sales).

@Millionski Yeah, but then if a gamer just cares about exclusivity the best purchase for them will be a Steam Deck. Hades 2 has literally been only on Steam for over a year now. The Steam Deck has access to far more games not available on any console and even games "exclusive" to consoles. All for a starting price that is now lower than the Switch 2. It's really only the first party exclusives if you care that much about exclusives, which a lot of Nintendo fans do, but really the implied argument here is competition. They'll keep their current user base happy but how will they grow? What non gamer or currently Xbox only gamer is dropping $450 on a Switch 2 based on its showing? For whom will the Nintendo Switch 2 be their first console or gaming device period and why? And Heck, Hades 2 isn't even exclusive to the Switch 2. It'll still be on the Switch 1 which will undoubtedly see price drops from retailers soon.

Anyway, I've had the game on Steam since it launched in Early Access and I'm currently sitting on 129 hours. I'll immediately buy it on Xbox whenever it comes to Xbox. But that's it. Frankly if I didn't have a PC this news would just make me purchase a reasonably priced gaming PC (either handheld or laptop (probably wouldn't build my own desktop just yet)), not at all make me want to pay Nintendo's insane asking price for outdated hardware. But hey, maybe this is all a secret ploy to sell more original switch consoles.

@Fiendish-Beaver it sounds like Xbox needs to release Forza Horizon 6 this year 😒 (if only 😂)

Xbox got it's headline with most announcements. From these awards I really would like to see an equal spread for deserved achievement and I was gonna say it's a diverse list, but Astro bot won so many awards 😂. T'would be nice if it were like one award per game. But whatever. It's crazy because there are so many games in any given year. I wonder how actually everything is narrowed down. Or even if it is. Like how many great games are just forgotten or missed for not being more well known? 😢

Anyway, the most surprising for me is Vampire Survivors.

Everything that Nintendo and Sony have done this generation have told me to just NEVER ever support them again. From the pricing (before Nintendo pushed for $80 games, Sony pushed hard for $70 games) to ludicrousness like trying to patent basic game mechanics in an entire genre. The price of their latest consoles (the PS5 Pro is insane) and exclusivity deals can miff me off but ultimately that's it. I acknowledge they game they choose to play even if I don't like it. And in the past I'd always try to get all consoles over a generation, but lately it's gone so much further to the point that their anti consumerism is staining the entire industry. Nintendo shouldn't be allowed to get away with something Xbox wouldn't, especially when said thing has genuine negative impact on gamers in the industry all around. A $450 Switch means that the next gen Xbox and PS WILL cost $600 minimum. Probably $700 based on the PS5 Pro. If we let Nintendo sell us $80 games when Nintendo games have lower cost and development scope then every game will start at $80 in the very near future. And people keep citing inflation or tough times and that gaming is a luxury, and okay but have wages been rising? As these companies are charging us more for everything are they also paying us more? Are they hiring more people? Nintendo I can say I haven't heard of layoffs from, but the entire industry has had a massive issue and seen insane layoffs for the past few years now. And what Nintendo does and what we let them do has a massive impact on the whole industry. They don't exist in a happy go lucky bubble. Why are we letting these corporations blatantly screw us over and spit on us for the trouble?? How can any consumer defend these actions? Like truly. It is our job as consumers to advocate for what is best FOR US. Let Nintendo argue for why we should pay $150 more than the starting price of the Nintendo Switch for hardware that's still underpowered compared to the rest of the console market and a cost that isn't that much lower than PC handhelds while still having all the detriments of gaming on console in a closed system that's meant to be subsidized. However us consumers should only ever either argue why it's not worth that price or why we on an individual level think it is. We should never attack each other and defend the business. We should dismiss and diminish the very clearly many people who don't accept this price.

Arguably, Nintendo's comment is worse in the sense that it throws out far more rhetoric and just kinda nothing speak. Like Nintendo's is far more indirect whereas Xbox's was far more direct. The same thing is being said regardless; how it is being said is what's changed. Which the message does matter. The Nintendo message probably does soften the blow for most. I'm just a walking cynic who gets real frustrated over double speak.

Anyway, the main difference here is Xbox is Xbox and Nintendo is Nintendo. (there's also a difference of about 12 years (though arguably that should make it worse considering what the interals of the Switch are more comparable to)). Honestly, whose to say how the Switch 2 will go for them? It's not like Nintendo hasn't had bad consolss before and when their consoles have failed, they failed hard. Like the WiiU with a miniscule 13 million sales. I think the GameCube barely broke 20 million. Anyway, I do genuinely hope people don't let Nintendo's golden boy status blind them to how unacceptable this all is. If we let Nintendo get away with that console price and those game prices and all that nickel and dimming with online services then the console market is just going to be royally screwed (the entire gaming industry will be for consumers).

@themightyant The issue is that while gaming is a luxury, video game consoles only exist as a method of lowering the price of that luxury. Making it more economical. Part of that promise is where we get subsidized consoles from doing blatantly anti consumer stuff like only having one storefront, charging for paid online, charging for cloud saves, etc. Here Nintendo is doubling down on all fronts and the result is a handheld with outdated hardware and a closed off ecosystem and more expensive games and services than ever, that isn't "that" much cheaper than its open PC (Windows and Linux based) counterparts.

The issue is also that gaming is a luxury. Nintendo keeps flaunting this attitude of "tough times" as if people's wallets aren't already being squeezed tighter by necessities like groceries. Other gaming companies are responding with methods of spreading the cost and even finding ways to making gaming more accessible for a cheaper up front price.

You're echoing the same argument that was made when Xbox released the Xbox One and now Nintendo with the Switch 2: if you don't like the price, then don't buy it. Which is tone deaf of the reason why people complain and hilarious in that that's exactly what the people who complain will do. The Switch 2 is 100% see slower initial sales than the Switch originally had and it'll only ramp up once they lower the price through sales or release a lower tier (probably handheld only) model that costs less.

Shout out to ID@Xbox and the general push the industry has to highlights indies and deliver these gem games to everyone. It wasn't that long ago that indies had to come out about their struggles with basic discovery on consoles. Silk Song is looking like another huge one. Even console makers like Nintendo, Xbox, and Sony know how huge indies are now and that's great!

@GeorgeKal Which I never understood why they didn't make Xbox Play Anywhere titles on console match the PC store cut as an added incentive. Like in my head the business move would be lowering the cut on PC and consoles to 20% and then lowering it further to 15% for Xbox Play Anywhere. That'd be fairer all around without losing too much ground and giving another reason for devs to want to use Xbox Play Anywhere. I also just don't see a reason for Microsoft to try and match Epic. Both are trying to pull devs over from Steam, but we all know it's not as simple as offering cut that much lower. That said it is another case of competition benefiting those being competed for (in this case developers instead of gamers). Microsoft and Epic want as much support for their PC storefronts as Steam gets, so they're doing more to make devs happy. That in of itself is great. The Xbox app on PC and MS store need to do far, FAR more to attract devs and gamers, but offering better rates certainly isn't bad.

@DalamarX They don't need to. That's the thing, this will still be a windows OEM. Hardware sales will impact ASUS, and what Microsoft overall will care about is making the Windows license more attractive to gamers and OEMs (which for Microsoft as the dominant OS for PC gaming it really just means not losing market share to the likes of SteamOS or anything). Most likely the software innovations made on the ASUS will be in a later update shipped across the board and future windows gaming handhelds (and maybe even PCs) will ship with whatever work Microsoft is doing to optimize gaming on the ASUS device. Heck, I could even see an Xbox guide button become standard where the copilot button is on "copilot+" PCs. Microsoft is already selling the idea that a Windows gaming PC is an Xbox. This just sounds like them doing more to justify the claim.

The comment about entitlement makes it clear to me that handheld plans this year are more windows PC gaming plans and focused on ramping up Xbox Play Anywhere and improving the gaming experience on Windows. None of which I'm against. I love my Lenovo Legion Go as is and there's certainly a ton of room to love it more. The "true" Xbox handheld rumored to be coming in later years (with next gen) is interesting on its own on the console side, but on the PC gaming side windows has needed to step up its game for a long while now so this is good to see. If they can pull off some major immediate boosts to Xbox Play Anywhere at the same time that'd be incredibly dope. A semi big change we've already seen is them bring Battle Net into the fold for new releases and start to open up Xbox Cloud Saves to steam for single player games.

Sony's own multiplatform first party ventures are pretty much being ignored, but they bought Bungie shortly after Microsoft bought Zenimax (Bethesda) and made it clear that Bungie games would still release simultaneously on all platforms including Xbox. Similarly Sony has played ball (pun intended) when they were told to make MLB the Show Multiplatform (literally just Xbox and Game Pass at the start). I don't think they're allergic to money or as against multiplatform games as is made out. Certainly not as much so as Microsoft, but times are very different all around from the olden days.

@TheGameThrifter Spending on Xbox is higher than ever and actual analytics and earnings calls have cited Xbox Game Pass subscribers are buying more games and spending more within games. They pointed to discovery, freeing up money to buy games not on the service, and the Microtransactions discount + lower barrier to entry for the game. Weird of you to bring up game pass at all here, when the very obvious real issue is that Marathon is launching into a reality where people expect live service online multiplayer games to be free to play (especially shooters). Save a few, it's really hard for live service games with a starting price tag to find an audience. Sony JUST learned this with Concord (and that game wasn't on Xbox platforms at all).

I never believed the ideas of Steam on Xbox or the next Xbox going full windows gaming PC, because that'd drastically change the business model of consoles. Consoles are subsidized hardware with the understood caveat of one store front and limited use compared to gaming PCs. My thought process was that the Xbox console design and architecture remains similar (just continues improving) and the big changes are on the backend with a greater push for play anywhere and an Xbox mode for Windows that brings PCs into the ecosystem. And then Sony revealed the PS5 Pro at $700 and Nintendo the Switch 2 at $450 and us now looking at digital games costing $80 standard eventually.

I am still not fully onboard with the idea of making Xbox more like PC (I see it the other way around where gaming on windows needs to feel more like gaming on Xbox), but it's looking a lot more realistic. Like Nintendo and Sony just solved the pricing problem for Microsoft. Both are pushing the limits for what a console is worth when compared to it's PC brethren. It used to be a massive gap of hundreds of dollars and now a Steam Deck starts at a lower price than the current gen switch. Upgrading to a good PC with comparable power to the PS5 Pro would only cost a few hundred bucks more. And these consoles still insist on being closed ecosystems and walled gardens without the benefit of PC gaming. Stuff like free cloud saves, free multiplayer across the board, multiple storefronts, mods, emulators, productivity, literal free games from several official sources (as in you don't even need a premium subscription). That's all to say, I can actually believe now that Microsoft could launch the next Xbox as being far far closer to a windows PC in an Xbox shell and get away with a high enough asking price.

All the pieces haven't fallen into place from my perspective and we certainly don't have the full picture, but if next gen Sony and Microsoft consoles launch at the price of the PS5 Pro, Xbox could get away with subsidizing hardware less and have a clear competitive advantage over Sony just by having a more open ecosystem (well an even more open ecosystem than that already have compared to PS). And maybe it is like I'm thinking and the Next box is still a traditional console with a lot of the work to merge them being done on the windows PC software side and the backend. And then the next next box where consoles cost $1000 dollars (because we've lost our minds somewhat) is where it happens.

Who knows? Literally. I don't even think Microsoft does. Nintendo and Sony as well seem a bit unsure of the future. The present state of consoles is a bit odd. They aren't really growing and they aren't even really competiting with each other for market share. Everyone is just upgrading. All three companies have already peaked in terms of pure hardware sales (including Nintendo who with the switch merged their handheld and home console lines and massively improved on 3DS and WiiU sales, but still at the top of their game had sold over 100 million Wii consoles and 150 million DS (I think DSi) Consoles). So where do they go from here? From a business perspective it's a matter of either charging the same consumers more or reaching out and finding new consumers to charge, but in both cases the traditional core idea of console is evaporating.

It's not just important, with all publishers and platforms pushing for digital games it's necessary. You can't make that push and not ensure our libraries are preserved and safe. And more importantly that push has to come with benefits (like Xbox Play Anywhere).

I don't expect consoles to ever not offer full backwards compatibility again, because they can't afford to as long as PC gaming is around. It's become the norm in how we expect our libraries to be handled. Another thing on the Xbox side, if Microsoft can manage some form of emulation that also works with windows 11 (or whatever iteration we're on), then that'd be an insane W. Xbox Play Anywhere I believe is also a licensing issue and requires publishers or indie devs to agree, but a compatibility layer of emulation for Xbox games built into windows would still massively increase the number of Play Anywhere games with how easy it'd be for publishers and devs to just say "sure that's fine" and Microsoft make that Xbox games available on PC.

After the PS5 Pro and Nintendo Switch 2, I'm honestly just interested in the price. If the next box is $700 then I'll just look up YouTube videos on building a PC.

I think Xbox already offers the best console on the market with the most value to gamers and they've factually had more game support than ever this generation (first and third party), but it's all worthless if Microsoft doesn't go hard with marketing which they NEVER do for consumer products. And the marketing they do do, doesn't do a great job of making the value their products offer clear. Then there's all their issues with global regions (supply chains and just having local servers and regional text to make the local language on the system). Xbox has more opportunity now than ever to get really aggressive with marketing and showcase how they offer the best ecosystem among the consoles with how much Sony and Nintendo have nickel and dimed their users this generation... and they just don't. It sucks because I really think Xbox, if any of the three this gen could, could attract a good number of brand new gamers in this very still market. Like they could have better positioned the Series S as the perfect FIRST console for people or an all in one entertainment box (similar to the Xbox One except it's far smaller and $200 cheaper at launch). But we really barely even got any marketing for the Series consoles like as early as 2022. Even Game Pass which they keep saying they want to grow, barely gets marketed for how great the value is. And when they do market they insist on just posting on THEIR socials, but won't shell out the money for all the ad space, commercial slots, collabs, product placement, and everything else that Nintendo and Sony does. They own some of the biggest games and barely even make it known that those are Xbox games (COD gets a pass for being a recent purchase, but Minecraft has been first party for a long time and it's so big around the world and they don't even make use of that to make Xbox more well known; it doesn't need to be exclusive but at least use it for marketing purposes).

But I am fairly confident in Microsoft's ability to ship fantastic console experiences. The Xbox engineering team blows me away. The Series S is an insane machine inside that tiny shell and the Series X does offer incredible power. Again my only real concern is pricing (tbh marketing is more Microsoft's concern).

@Kaloudz Hi Fi Rush could've worked out better had they done a marketing beat post release. They got to surprise everyone and let the game speak for itself (and it got tons of love); all they needed to do was run some accolades ads after. Even something like giving it a big announcement at the June Showcase that year (instead of regulating it to the extended extra live stream) and hyping up its update as like the game in its final form. Then done a big physical release for it. They could've even gone harder and done collabs and more dlc for more licensed songs or whatever. They should've marketed it a ton more in Japan even as like THE Xbox and Game Pass seller there because Xbox doesn't have a ton of similar Japanese games like that. Heck they could've done a One Piece Film Red collab (either an ad or a bonus level with an ado song).

Really the possibilities are endless, but it largely feels like Hi Fi Rush didn't go anywhere for probably the same reason Xbox sold it, they didn't really know what to do with Tango. It was the one Japanese studio in their portfolio and for that matter the one studio in Asia. Xbox and Microsoft are still Washington, US based companies and Xbox especially doesn't really have a foothold in the east. They're still just struggling to build up third party support. Like all that stuff I mentioned would have required Xbox to actually have good management and marketing teams in place in Japan, and they barely have good marketing in the west.

But yeah, I don't think a shadow drop would do a new IP or major sequel, especially a third party game, well.

@Millionski People care, hence why the gaming industry has been facing problems ever since COVID ended and wallets are squeezed tight. Video game consoles and video games themselves are a luxury entertainment item. They're a hobby and very quick to go once prices start increasing especially in economic states like we're in now. All of the consoles are losing because all they can really manage to do is upgrades (slightly more or slightly less), but they're failing to grow as costs rise and the industry faces internal and external constraints. Companies that are managing to attract new consoles don't jack up prices like this. As stated, Nintendo was very successful in combining their handheld and home console audiences and finding success in returning to their former glory there, but you're seriously living in this fantasy land where everyone will race to the stores to buy a Switch 2. They won't. Current Nintendo fans might. Probably will, but most likely adoption will be slower than it was for the first Nintendo Switch. Regardless, most sales will continue to be upgrades. Beating Xbox in hardware sales isn't success. It's also worth mentioning that Nintendo is only winning in terms of hardware sales. They trail far, far behind both Microsoft and Sony in terms of total gaming revenue (and no, Xbox didn't only surpass them when they bought ABK or started going multiplatform; Xbox gaming revenue has been higher than Nintendo's for a while). We don't know margins, but I'd expect that's also influencing these pricing decision.

... and never mind. Good lord, why am I bothering? I mean, lmao, the iPhone is ALREADY a bigger gaming platform than any console. There are a few billion mobile gamers compared to the 150 million peak consoles see. My comment there was that eventually mobile phones will see more and more higher end games you once needed a console to access and those platforms will continue to grow as consoles fade into irrelevancy if they can't do anything other than charge higher prices. But I get the strange feeling that not a single word I say matters to you. I guess if you enjoy the future Nintendo has laid out, then go for it.

@Millionski This is the major issue the gaming industry is facing and it's mostly being centered in the console market. Consoles were meant to be the gateway to gaming for all, but have largely failed to attract large audiences. They've now become very stuck. No platform is seeing a significant number of new gamers, but costs are rising and their shareholders want growth, so what are these companies to do? Microsoft is expanding the Xbox ecosystem and even making first party games available on rival platforms, Sony is making games available on other platforms (PC and Switch) far less frequently and consistently while also raising prices and doing all their accessories (VR and portal), and Nintendo is absolutely refusing to make games available outside of Nintendo consoles and instead just massively raising prices while also massively controlling costs.

But this all worsens the problem. People who aren't already huge Nintendo fans aren't going to see these ridiculous prices and make this their first Nintendo console (at the very least not nearly enough) and we get stuck in this cycle where consoles are constantly making themselves less attractive to new consumers, so they HAVE to keep raising prices to grow (or losing exclusives and releasing on other platforms). It's really a dangerous game because with the advent of cloud gaming, people don't need gaming consoles or PC rigs to play AAA games. On top of that PC gaming is becoming more accessible in price and user experience. Even mobile gaming (which is already massive) is starting to see more console games. Apple has proven that the likes of AC Mirage can run on the latest iphones. All of these things are set to continously improve as all consoles seem to be able to do is raise their prices. People talk about how the Switch 2 is KILLER for offering 3 year old first party games at full price... what happens when the iPhone does the same? When the latest flagship Android can? When cloud gaming and internet infrastructure improves so much that anything with an internet can play the latest releases?

@Millionski Odd take at the end consider the Switch already outsold the Series S and now the Switch 2 will cost $150 more than the series S and still be weaker than the Series S. The switch 2 won't be any more competition for the Series S than the Switch already has been.

I'll just say that if exclusives were all that mattered than the PS3 could have sold people on the $600 console eons ago, the WiiU would've cracked at least 15 million sales, Sony wouldn't have fought like hell to prevent the ABK acquisition, and the entire console market wouldn't be stagnating. Really Nintendo's price increases are a sign that despite even their success, they can't really find another way to make more money other than charging the same gamers more. The Nintendo Switch was a good success, but the reality is that they essentially just merged their handheld (DS) consumers and their home console users. At their peak they were selling 150 million DSes and 100 million Wiis. They came back from a low moment, but they're still facing the same issue the rest of the market of not being able to attract a lot of new gamers.

@BaldB3lper78 This is happening because people let the Nintendo Switch get away with it. Switch games should've been $50 at most. The entire device was weaker than the Xbox One and PS4 and games purchased on it were technically the lowest performing version possible. Nintendo first party as well really wasn't justifying their $60 price increase and especially not when they went for $70. Game development couldn't have cost as much as the AAA games whose prices they were matching. Game freak certainly didn't need to sell the same Pokémon game twice at $60 with a $40 expansion pack to stay afloat. Nintendo also still refused to go on sale. There was also stuff like locking older gen games behind the Switch online pay wall (imagine how Xbox gamers would respond if you could only use backwards compatibility if you subscribed to Game Pass). Gamers continue to let Sony and Nintendo get away with no free cloud saves. Not to mention Nintendo has just consistently always been the most anti consumer and recently they've taken it a step higher with how they threaten to impact the industry with their ridiculous patents and Palworld case.

Yet throughout it all their fans have eaten it up. And Nintendo has been highly successful. So of course this is the natural progression and I can only blame Nintendo so much, because if I were in their shoes and had the data they had about their gamers then I'd take advantage of it too.

Xbox offers real good value that neither console is matching to the point that I think they could actually succeed on the idea of offering the best console experience and porting games to other consoles to capture those loyalists that aren't moving, but it's all worthless if Microsoft isn't aggressive with their marketing and they don't do anything to make the value of an Xbox clear.

We also don't know if Xbox will push against the tide or if they'll look at the data from this generation and see it as more beneficial to ride the wave Nintendo and Sony are causing. That's a real concern I have. The industry attacked the budget console Series S and despite offering more consumer friendly value Xbox hardware sales are pretty lackluster (not terrible but not really great either just like exactly okay). Sony's anti consumer strategy so far has done a much better job getting gamers to upgrade.

Consoles are in such a crazy place right now. And I only think it's going to get worse. The $700 PS5 Pro (disc drive and stand sold separately) combined with the $450 Switch 2, basically confirms that the PS6 is going to cost $600 minimum if not $700 with the pro upgrade being $800 or $900. Xbox could continue offering the best value they do now, or they could match Sony and reap the benefits that way if they don't think people care enough to switch over. Consumers in the market have signaled that they don't care anymore and will take this crap lying down. Heck, one major thing that kept me from believing that the next Xbox would go full windows PC or include other storefronts like Steam or abandon proprietary hardware for OEMs (all of which has been rumored) is the pricing and how Microsoft would subsidize to stay within the console market. Well, their competition has just changed the narrative. The gloves are now off. Xbox can go full windows PC and sell the next gen box for $1000 and we'll take it or leave it because somehow the next PS costs more and the next Nintendo console isn't that far behind (I'm exaggerating but that's also looking more and more possible; these consoles are about to be as expensive as a new iPhone or Samsung).

@themightyant 100%. My only real thought process is that due to the price there might be a slight percentage of gamers that pick up a PC handheld (which is comparatively less more expensive in regards to the switch 2 than the original switch (god that's confusing but you get it)). But yeah, ultimately PC handhelds will remain a far far more niche market for the foreseeable future, with signs of growth much further down the line.

Nintendo does also still have the curse of every other console failing (like the GameCube sold 20 million and then the Wii 100 mil and then the WiiU 13 mil), and the price is quite a bit more than the original switch so it'll be interesting to see. Most likely they'll be more stable now that they've merged home console and handheld lines (and the DS consistently sold well each iteration), but it'll be interesting to see. That doesn't really have much to do with PC handheld sales though other than the small subset of users who might pick up a PC handheld instead of a Switch 2. Even at its worst the Switch 2 will likely far outsell PC handhelds and each OEM will be a small portion of that.

I do think times are changing though. Analytics continues to show that the console market is very still with most hardware purchases being upgrades. Whereas PC, cloud, and mobile are all growing and growing more each year. I really don't see how Nintendo expects to (or if they want to) attract brand new gamers by offering the Switch 2 as a standard upgrade at $150 more than the base price of the Switch. Alternatively, it's getting consistently easier and cheaper to access gaming through these other platforms. The switch price also suggests we truly will see the PS6 (and maybe even next Xbox) priced at $600 (or more based on the PS5 Pro). Consoles are consistently approaching the price of PC rigs and not doing much to actually match their value (like we still have to pay for paid online games and cloud saves (except for Xbox which has free cloud saves) and there's still only one storefront as the likes of Nintendo charges a whooping $80 as the base price for a new exclusive game). If these trends don't change, consoles will push people to PC or for that matter cloud and maybe even mobile once the tech in smartphones gets good enough (and apple had games like AC Mirage ported just to show off that they're getting there).

@Kaloudz A shadow drop would've done the game such a disservice. This will likely be one of the biggest day one game pass titles (and maybe even Xbox play anywhere since they want to hype up that feature too) of the year despite the game being indie. I expect a good showing at the June Showcase.

Microsoft is a software and analytics company. They're really good at predicting the future and analyzing the market, but really bad at actually marketing their products to real people. They jump the gun and deal with the fallout because they don't really get how emotional and illogical consumers are. It happened with the Zune, it happened with the Windows Phone, it happened with the Xbox One, and it continues to happen with their cloud and multiplatform pushes. Heck, it already happened with their multiplatform pushes. They were the first console to support putting their first party games on PC and in some cases Nintendo Switch, and they saw a LOT of backlash for it. Now that's died down and Sony is doing the same and getting praised for it.

That's not pointing fingers at anyone, but saying this is nothing new or expected. It's what Microsoft will continue to have to contend with as long as they don't properly learn how to execute a consumer electronics business (and it's not like they really have to change; the Xbox One failed and still pulled in over 10 billion; Microsoft has long since dwarfed Nintendo in terms of gaming revenue).

I really feel it's more unfortunate in how... tame Microsoft was with this generation. They almost seemed scared of facing backlash, but the thing is a lot of what the Xbox One tried selling gamers was a good move for growing and reaching new customers. It's true that consoles don't just compete with each other and do with other forms of entertainment and it's true that those other forms of entertainment have grown and continue to threaten consoles. We now have iPhones with playing Assassin's Creed Mirage and Amazon using Luna to bring PC games to fire TVs. On the flip side consoles have just naturally evolved to include stuff like every major streaming service. The console market on the whole has stalled and I think pitching a console as the ultimate entertainment device wouldn't hurt. At the very least doing so with say the Xbox Series S (the all digital, much smaller, and reasonably low priced budget console). Xbox got burnt in the Xbox One era for jumping the gun, but did they really learn any lessons; as much as I love my Series X and S it does honestly feel like Xbox played this gen as safe as possible out of fear more than anything else. And some stuff I just don't understand why we don't have it anymore? Like was the snap feature killing resources or something? I could believe it, but I wouldn't mind a "using snap might cause games to perform worse" warning or something. I'd still love it anyway with casual games. They were the first to make proper use of a camera and microphone on a system level, but they did such a bad job presenting the tech (and chose such a bad time) that there were a vocal group of consumers genuinely afraid that Microsoft was spying on them. So as a result they just dropped the idea when they could've easily incorporated it into the Series X and S without the need of the kinect and then made use of voice assistants and the camera. Oh well.

Very similar to Borderlands 3 Ultimate edition dropping ahead of 4's release this year. It's really not a bad marketing plan. One last hoorah to get people interested in the last game before the latest entry drops.

"most INFLUENTIAL games of all time". Lmfao with this list 😂. Number 1 is Shenmue... really? And number 7 came out this year. What has it influenced??

This is definitely just a nostalgia and popularity poll. Like I love Baldur's Gate 3 to death, but it physically has not had enough time in the industry to be on a "most influential" list. Rather it only exists as a successor and evolution of what has come before. I don't doubt that it will become highly influential in the next decade or two, but now umm, no.

@belmont Everything that's out there suggests that most of the "xbox" work will be on the software side. Hardware wise this is still an ASUS device and an OEM.

I personally expect the handheld to be similar to copilot+ PCs in that it shows off new software, gets that new software early, but then that new software is made available to everyone after some months. I have a lenovo legion go myself and I've been following the new chips and tech out there and there's nothing to make me want an upgrade this soon. I do believe that Microsoft will be shipping a big windows update to improve gaming sometime after the ASUS device drops and that's exciting for me.

@themightyant They really don't have to match it. As long as the starting price doesn't go over $600 then for delivering a more powerful system that's still an open windows PC they'll be a lot more competitive to the switch 2 than I expected due to that price bump. The switch has gone from a base model launch of $300 to $450, that's insane and makes the gap between the Switch and any PC handheld in terms of price so much smaller. Then we start looking at features and technical specifications and available games/services and the cost of those games and it's not that much of an up sell. Like arguably it's not one at all when any given PC handheld comes with multiple storefronts (with really low prices and some literally giving away free games), no paid online, and free cloud saves. Though of course there's always going be the big difference between battery life.

It still comes down to marketing to the general public, which PC Handhelds will have a MUCH harder time doing than Nintendo, but Nintendo kinda just gave the biggest boon to any future PC handheld and the current PC handhelds on the market. The Xbox and ASUS collab device aside, the Steam Deck starts at $400 and runs on the much more usefriendly SteamOS. Valve could REALLY take advantage of the Switch 2 price and get really aggressive.

Crazy how the Nintendo Switch 2 is going to cost more at launch than the starting price of the Steam Deck. The Nintendo Switch 2 is going to cost more than an Xbox Series S and the same price as an all digital Series X or PS5. The Nintendo Switch 2 is only $100 cheaper than the Legion Legion Go S (SteamOS) base model. What universe is this?? Like is digital foundry going to do a tech breakdown and blow us all away? You know I'm going to be honest, I hope Nintendo's curse of every other console failing continues because I do not want to live in a reality where the gaming industry has accepted the insane price to value proposition Nintendo has given us.

@Kaloudz Oh definitely. It's still day one game pass and they even just talked about it when hyping up Play Anywhere.

Silksong yay! Xbox definitely knew when they mentioned this with other upcoming Xbox Play Anywhere titles, which is crazy because I saw people mad that Xbox dared to invoke the name 😂. Yet here we are barely a few weeks later. I. I'm guessing Nintendo secured like an exclusive marketing deal to reveal that it's coming this year with the Nintendo Switch 2, so Xbox couldn't elaborate.

The more I think on it, the more part of me has to wonder if this is at least somewhat influenced by Nintendo's desire to keep all their first party games exclusives. Even Playstation is porting their biggest games to PC and now sharing some with Nintendo. Those are brand new gamers, some of whom have never owned a Playstation and never planned on buying one, now able to purchase their first part developed games for not that much additional development cost. Nintendo probably ran the analytics and knows they'll mostly be selling Mario Kart World to the same people who bought Mario Kart 8 (as in Nintendo Switch Upgrades), so to make more money they have to charge more for the game.

I also imagine the ongoing conditions in the world are influencing things (those tarrifs and inflation can't be helping), but I also feel pretty certain that Nintendo knows they can either sell their games to more gamers not on Nintendo platforms or they can sell their games to their gamers (on Nintendo platforms) for more money. The switch 2 certainly isn't going to match the switch in terms of sales overnight (especially not at price tag that's nearly $200 more). And there probably won't be that many, if any, brand new gamers who didn't buy the previous Nintendo Switch. So what else can they do? (like I assume that's the question they asked themselves)

And Nintendo Switch 2 games will comparatively still be the least technically performing and smaller in scale. That's absolutely nuts. Even the console price threw me for a loop. Like I haven't seen a full breakdown but $450 for the base console at launch?? Seriously?? The cost of an all digital Xbox Series X or PS5? $150 more than the base Xbox Series S? More than the starting Steam Deck Price? What's even more crazy is the first article I saw about that (granted it popped up with I searched "Xbox" not "Nintendo Switch 2") had the headline that it's "surprisingly reasonable". I swear to God Nintendo stans grow a backbone before ya'll make us all suffer (lord that $80 price tag is coming, it was only like 2 years after Sony pushed $70 that Microsoft followed suit; eventually it'll be market standard and Nintendo just started the clock for the time bomb). I'm already praying that those stupid patents and Palworld court case doesn't go through and set a terrible precedent for game development.

I genuinely don't care personally. I haven't gamed on my Switch in ages and I don't have any interest in the Switch 2. I don't follow Nintendo news. The most I'll see of it is people reacting (either to a lack of Xbox games or Xbox games being present) when I search Xbox news later on.

For people that are interested in the switch, I do hope it will get good support and they can play the games they enjoy on it. But personally the Switch and Nintendo don't really cross my mind much. Like at this point I exclusively only see Nintendo news, rumors, etc when it's in relation to other gaming brands I do follow.

@sp00nard That's pretty much exactly what everything is pointing to. Lol. The original leak specified that Xbox's own actual handheld is still further out. This is still going to be a windows OEM, just one that it seems Microsoft is working more closely with ASUS on to make a better overall experience.

Based on everything that's coming out, the overall strategy here seems to match that of what Microsoft likes to do with big software improvements for Windows. They'll work with OEMs to announce a big update with ready made hardware that'll take advantage of it (but without having to invest too much themselves in the hardware department), and then later ship an update across windows that'll enable the big update for all existing products and upcoming products capable of taking advantage of it.

I think this will be treated as a big "moment" for gaming on Windows. The major focus will probably be an Xbox gaming mode and improvements across the Xbox App, Microsoft Store games, and Windows overall aimed at making gaming on Windows feel more intuitive all through a familiar Xbox shell. I'd even expect Microsoft introducing an Xbox button to OEMs that want it and encouraging them to use this and their Xbox interface launcher instead of their own solutions (like Legion Space on the Legion Go). But I don't at all expect this to be a unique device or that much of an Xbox device. The Microsoft work seems to be on the software end, as expected. It'll still be an ASUS OEM and ASUS hardware manufactured PC handheld. More than anything this feels like an answer to all the complaints PC gamers have had with Windows (over the years but especially since the Steam Deck and handheld PCs gained popularity), and largely a competitive answer to Valve who has started selling SteamOS to OEMs. For once windows could lose its gaming dominance on PCs and as such Microsoft is actually doing something to remain competitive (which very hilariously so just means that they do what they should've done like a decade ago; God Microsoft gets so complacent with Windows).

I love April Fool's Day so much. There's just such ambient energy in the air for enjoyment. It's a day where there's just collective agreement to be silly and run wild with it all and it's harmless in that we all collectively know what day it is. Like hey, maybe we get another Yakuza 7 turn based situation, but that's just a happy bonus. This year especially it's felt needed. There's so much tension and hardship right now and it feels like things are squeezing tighter from every angle (from social media to the economy and inflation to tense politics). I've already great enjoyed April Fool's Day so far and I always love seeing what gamers and gaming companies and game content creators come up with. The entertainment idea behind April Fool's compliments the industry so well. Stuff like Pocket pair making a steam page and trailer for their Palworld furry dating sim just brings a smile. I hope everyone else has fun with it (and if you don't it's just a day) 😊😆!