Millionski

@StonyKL I think it will be for several target audiences:

1) people with big xbox console libraries who want to keep gaming on xbox device.
2) Same market as steam machine but just seemingly more powerful solution - like a mid-range pre-built PC. Basically people who dont want to build PC themselves but are interested in playing in front of a TV.
3) people who are on consoles today but want to migrate to PC. Helix will be their "bridge" as it will be smoother experience than regular PC and again their existing games will be supported.
4) People who play on multiple devices. Until the rumored PS handheld comes out this is currently with MS or Valve only with PC devices (desktop + handheld).
5) diehards who buy whatever is labelled an xbox

Absolutely, it wont compete with PS6 directly and I do expect a big chunk of people move to PS6 simply due to price tag and ease of understanding: here is the console, here are the exclusives, you are good to go.

@Fiendish-Beaver I think it will be the same as Valve and steam machine: priced as similarly spec-ed PC.

What is more interesting if any PC would be basically "convertable" to such xboxPC or not. a month ago I woulve said yes, but now vision seemingly changing as MS finally realizing you cant launch a new product and then market as "you dont need it, play anywhere stuff".

Microsoft does have more bargaining power with suppliers though as compared to Valve, so could be slightly better value for the buck.

But I dont expect them to subsidize it, at least not that aggressively as a console. The "fear" is the same as with valve that companies will use it as PC and dont invest into gaming a dime.

@TheGameThrifter any proof its still being subsidized? most consoles stop being sold at a loss around 2-3 years into gen. For PS5 I remember it was before even slim was released. You could argue they were earning on slim arelady. I dont think its much different for SX.

@Llamageddon I have a similar prediction but in USD.

PS6 will be more than PS5 PRO = so 800 USD.
Helix = I would say 1299 USD tops. Otherwise even for diehards its gonna be painfull

@IOI the point is I dont think xbox series X is subsidized anymore. Same goes with PS5 consoles since slim was released.

@PsBoxSwitchOwner still a niche device tho compared to major players. does not mean its bad -> that was my point.

It baffles me that everyone is still into console wars and console sales. For xbox this ship has long sailed.

I think its more important if Helix will be good and polished experience and how exactly will it play our xbox (non-PC, non play anywhere) games.

@Fiendish-Beaver I think you can finally relax on the idea of them abandoning hardware whatsoever. I think this news is good regardless. At least they are coming up with a new device.

I agree with this device being niche and not selling even close to series s/x. I dont agree with them stopping in 3 years or so. I think stock just will be limited and it will be distributed same as rog ally - every store has a small amount or so and then it gets restocked.
Asha is pushing actively for "roots and console" to pull it off in 3 years as you say

@GamingGod did steam deck bomb then? sold 4M or so. However, I only hear positive things about it online and people are happy with it. its one of the most praised devices overall by consumer sentiment and at its price point...

seems like its not failure only if the device can outsell switch or PS

@PsBoxSwitchOwner niche is bad for consoles: devs dont want to prioritize your platform => games are skipping or have poor optimization, fewer people online, less discs in stores. I agree here.

now how does it matter if a device is essentially a PC? it will have games if not in xbox app then on steam that will be integrated anyways. For example, rog ally does not need to sell in droves to be supported by Asus/MS and games wont ever be a problem if hardware can handle it.

I am going to be devil advocate (and you know I criticize MS alot) but I think its too late for them to just release the standard console. It will never catch up to PS6 or S2. Its just not happening. You can return exclusives, lower GP price and such - sure you can probably sell more than series gen if you are lucky but hardly a win.

This is them trying to create a different device and compete in a niche with steam machine or pre-build mini-PC basically. And provide a bridge for console people who wanted to dip toes into PC.

For a console market I think they can maybe create a cheap version of SX and extend its life cycle. Similar to ps3 super slim that was super poor quality but price at 250 (remember ps3 started at 600). So cheap SC for like 399 might work too.

@Coletrain exactly niche by itself is not bad automatically. I am less worried about potential sales or even price.
However, I need to know how it will be different from PC, will they be able to figure out "console" feel on this device and things like that.

@IOI @Fiendish-Beaver @OldGamer999 @Weebleman

This device will be niche like steam deck/steam machine but we dont call those failures. Steam deck sold only 4M but actively supported.
I think MS fully understands that this device wont be able to compete with PS6. The price alone will drive people away.
However, the good news are on the PC market the sales of hardware dont matter that much.

Helix will sell several millions worst cast which is enough for MS dev teams to keep supporting the device with updates and such. Ideally if they could work on the optimization for games but at worst it will work like any regular PC.

I am more interested to see how exactly xbox games (console) will be accessed on Helix and whether they still with xbox FSE on windows or go further with merging the OS. Of course the UI/UX is on top of the list too.
It needs to do things differently than any other PC

@Cakefish we also need to weight importance of sony exclusives as their output is small (2 games a year + occasional 3rd party exclusive). This time we would see 2 completely different devices and philosophy between PS6 and Helix. It would be really tough choice...

@Cakefish exactly - this is a good question. I hope they do more than just xbox rog ally (which I like but its a half measure). Ideally native backward compatibility and some features that arent availabe on just any PC.
If they want to sell this fella, they need unique proposition.

What I can say is the good part is you are getting a solid PC at worst. THe most interesting part is how it will run existing console games and will UI/UX make a considerable jump in 1-2 years as now its pretty rough experience.

@itsfoz seemingly all steam games that will work on any windows 11 device.

This is exactly what I was telling going to happen. There wont be a designated xbox OS or some new OS. It will be exactly like Ally which I have a mixed feeling about but overall leaning to a positive after giving it another fair shot.
So maybe its a good thing.

What I want to know is how "Xbox" games exactly will be played? I really hope it can play xbox and not PC versions of games I bought on xbox consoles NATIVELY. Again I dont see any mention that all our console games will be available to download and play

@Fiendish-Beaver @Gemini53 I think if MS wants to be a platformholder and not just a publisher, the only way is to scrap all decisions from past 2 years completely: marketing should be pro-console/hardware, next gen must be priced aggresively (even if its a PC hybrid), exclusives must return and GP needs to be priced at $20 or (more realistically) just remove day 1. I would even argue xbox app on windows needs to have exclusives over steam.
There is a very slim chance of all this happening although both Asha and Booty already talk "console" and "1st party"

@Coletrain yes the downside of this is if sony cant find growth outside of its ecosystem this means they will go Nintendo way - raise price on games, subs, accessories and such.

@Coletrain you can definitely bleed from 35M series to as low as 5-10M of next xbox console which would be a massive decline. They have a choice to retain the 30M mark more or less or go very low if they keep pushing exclusives to competing platforms and "you dont need an xbox" narrative.

@Cakefish exactly the same. Reports from late last year were telling strong push to PC. They have been hiring PC&xbox ports team and I remember rumour was as low as 6 months exclusivity before porting to PC.
That made the option to choose next gen an xboxPC compelling even tho we have a lot of questions about "console" experience of it. Worst case it would be capable windows PC with access to Sony games via Steam.

However, now if its not the case, it means most likely I will end up buying PS6 regardless to access those sony games. In such case might as well just stay there for 3rd party (which to be fair make sense as PS becomes de-facto console for devs).

If only xbox goes back to their own exclusives or massively double down on PA - then I will probably choose them as I start to enjoy ally + xbox console combo a lot.

@ilyn I did not say its a big draw but it is a unique and defining feature for people who play on multiple devices. Something that competition does not have in the same capacity.

In my eyes its the only real feature they have now. For the past 8 years or so it has also been GP but its not anymore due to high price.
Stuff like UI, controller and such are more or less the same across the board and a more of a habit.

@Fiendish-Beaver if you dont have exclusive games then you need to have exclusive features. Quick resume is cool but not game changing. Backward compat is amazing but why they ended it? If they wouldve continued expanding library and improving older games that would be a compelling point.

the weird thing is the only benefit of xbox overall right now is the Play Anywhere. PS doesnt have a solution like this. Steam technically has it but you need all your devices to be PC. And nintendo is hybrid so play anywhere by design. Only xbox ecosystem provides you with opportunity to play between console and handheld currently.

But unfortunately, very few titles support this, and question still stands if they go PC next gen then what's the advantage over steam. There is also rumour of PS handheld that will actually be tied to console (something that we wanted from xbox to do rather than pc collab that is ally) so competition is also working on this.

They need short and simple answer what is the main advantage over competition and must be huge. For PS you say dualsense and exclusives and conversation ends here. For PC you say flexibility and power, no paywalls. FOr N its the hybrid design and exclusives. but for xbox its bunch of smaller "nice to have" things right now. GP used to be it but not anymore - its died with $30 price tag and GP premium is now in the same territory as PS plus.

They need to come up and say - we DO have excusives or every game is now PA or something big

@Fiendish-Beaver if sony rumour is true, it definitely pushing me even more to PS6 as I do enjoy some of their franchises. Although, their output lately has been ridiculous.

Its really tough to decide for next gen lol. We also yet to see what Valve is cooking...

@Fiendish-Beaver @Grumblevolcano my point is most games they put on PS did poorly or mediocre at best. Technically sea of thieves and forza only were success and more like outliers.

Since MS doesnt spend marketing $ much, I think they can safely release those games on PS after an exclusivity window on xbox/PC. For example forza 5 was a twitter (X) announcement and it sold insane numbers.

My second point is surely this exclusivity if it happens needs to go with actuals sales on the platform and GP hurts those. However, this year will be the first year many un-subbed from GP or downgraded due to $30 GPU price tag, so games like forza 6 or fable will be purchased even on xbox vs just downloaded as per sub like before. Basically $30 tag is already push towards sales and not subs.
I personally believe GPU should be ceased as it only confuses the messaging, while GP premium should stay as a main tier. New message should be buy games or wait 1-2 years to drop into GP.

Basically yeah we need to return to late xbox one era or so which I highly doubt will happen. For example GP launched as a service with NONE day 1 games and no one complained - kinda "return to the roots" lol if they remove day 1

@Fiendish-Beaver "that horse has bolted, run the Grand National, fallen at the last fence, broken its leg and been shot!" - we thought the same for PS ports to PC but rumour says they will keep single player games exclusive. they are creating a competition for PS6 and also many single player games did not sell well on PC too.

and you know me, I am not a fanboy of any camp but we need to assess things fairly for PS too...

@Fiendish-Beaver I responded to Weebleman in a different thread but basically I looked at how xbox games sold on PS.
In short, people overestimate success of xbox games on PS.

Sea of thives and Forza - big success. Indy - moderate success. Everything else - flop or near flop. This category includes around 10 games at this point. Interestingly, gears reloaded is also here. I would not bet on a lot of success for E-day on PS too.

This year definitely forza 6 and fable.

But bottom line MS can easily keep a big chunk of smaller/nice games permanently exclusive and couple of bigger titles to have exclusivity window.

@Weebleman I think the big confusion I see online is people projecting forza horizon 5 success on PS for ALL xbox games ported on PS. Hifi-rush, pentiment, grounded, HB2, south of midnight, age of empires/myth were near flop on PS.

Bigger games: Indy sold well but not drastically better. Gears reloaded flopped from what I found online. That actually means probably less interest for E-day.
Less interest in avowed too.

So out of a dozen games or so basically forza and probably fable (Due to high interest online already). starfield is also a big question mark.

Again this goes to Asha statement about "Console" as we know first of all exclusives is the main factor for sales

So these smaller/niche games can be easily exclusive while bigger ones can have timed exclusivity window.

I think most will agree now in hindsight GP with day 1, ABK merger, “everything is an xbox” and push to no exclusives is what damaged the brand the most.

They dont need to re-invent the wheel: promote consoles, return exclusives and cool hardware features, treat your fanbase as 1st class citizens (ngl I felt like they cared about everything but console players in past 2 years: pc, cloud, ps, n, TV firestick, ally, etc)

Personally I am giving them until next gen to lure us back

@Weebleman @Fiendish-Beaver I agree its low possibility given the success of xbox games on PS, but they have been changing strategy every 2-3 years in the past 13 years.
Sure I dont expect them to backpedal on already announced games like Halo remake however quietly they can keep some future games as exclusives.

If you think about it there never fully committed to launching all games day 1 on all platforms.

Another interesting point is there are rumours of Sony reducing their PC ports strategy going forward.

In the end of the day things can change in an instant but I do agree its probably too late.

Another thing is 1 week from Phil retirement and Asha said commitment to “console” and Booty denied just being publishers…

The industry (and not only gaming) dictates exclusives. You cant be the only “good guy” denying them. That makes you a fool in the end of the day - as evidenced in past 2 years after notorious “just 4 games”.

Xbox hardware MUST have exclusives. Period.
Strategy can be different whether “red lines” or “timed exclusivity” but needs to be at least some BIG games having 12 months window at minimum.

Btw They have 10 months to add 74 new games as so far the only day 1 game is planet of lana 2.
Imagine someone subbing at full $30 since december?

This is terribly wrong.

GP is done and needs to be rebranded

My opinion at this point they need to just rebrand GP and forget it. You cant promote “day 1 on GP” on these showcases when only 2 out of 4 tiers actually have day 1.
Also the whole existence of GPU at $30 is a confusing message. So are you promoting Gp and focusing on “day 1” or not? Its time to decide.

I think they need to cut everything except cheap $5-7 ad tier and $15 premium tier. Thats it. PC/xcloud should be part of each tier. Drop “day 1”, maybe offer extra discount or smth like that. Someone from IGN mentioned “voucher” system - could be an option 2.

Bottom line if “day 1” does so much damage lets drop it whatsover. Maybe add games 12-18 months after release to the premium tier which would be the main tier and thats it.

@PsBoxSwitchOwner agree. Same with witcher 3 thats been on sale for less than $10 all the time.
KCD2 is massive tho.

Overall in my eyes its all about day 1. Didnt they mention freaking 75 games this year? We got 0 in first 2 months.

I wish they d make it play anywhere. Usually many games that are added to GP start to support this feature - for example RE2-3.
It did not happen with W3 tho - which is unfortunate. So there is a chance CP77 skips it too.

Also if they want to expand hardware with different PC devices, I would still like it to be limited to certain devices and properly optimized.
For example I would love them to continue working on xbox ally and keep it as part of the “xbox hardware family” long-term and double down on “handheld optimized” and stuff like that.

I dont really wanna see just “any windows pc device is an xbox” strategy because it wont be polished.

I need to see a clear direction and vision going forward. “Xbox anywhere” is not convincing.
They already mentioned return to roots and that they are not just publishers - we want them to elaborate.
I invested too much in the platform and need to know what happens going forward.
For now there is way more certainty in the blue camp - we need to be convinced to stay with xbox.

Obviously its not ending but I think we need an answer from MS what is an xbox today? Is it a platform or just publisher? What happens to GP, dedicated hardware and such. What is the new strategy (again) lol.

Most people who were on the fence already went with PS or N.
At the bare minimum I need to see what they are doing to loyal fans who has been with xbox for a while. In past 2 years it seemed like we dont matter at all

@OldGamer999 astro is one of the best games this generation for me. A day 1 purchase with platinum and all extra content.
Hope sequel is coming for ps6.

@Gemini53 same with Witcher 3. Been ages in my backlog, started multiple times and always dropped. Until last year finally started properly and man what an amazing masterpiece it is! I just finished wild hunt and all side content (except gwint and half of question marks). Took a break but will be coming back for sure for the dlc.
And it plays so well for 2015 game and the way story is delivered is so refreshing with modern industry.

Kinda pessimistic but since they started talking “console” and 1st party and not just going publishing first time in 2 years - cautiously optimistic. I think the whole “xbox everywhere” push needs to die down completely. And people forget fast. You can turn around in a couple of years.

Also, what kinda forces me to give them another chance is that PS aint great either. I was so fixated on xbox problems that I overlooked the recent management change at Sony, another doa live service and notorious closure of bluepoint. I dont have confidence in them either so I need to see what is Ms vision now for xbox and I want to fully see PS6, next gen xbox and steam machine before deciding for next gen gaming. For now as I stacked my GP till 2027 and also have xbox ally - I am still on the ship though this time MS really needs to win me

Mr. Beaver how did you like it on your ps5 PRO? What is your impression of the ps5 pro so far?

I am not really sure how to turn it around. XboxPc hybrid similar to rog ally at $1200+ wont do it.
Series X successor without exclusives and cool features either. We also can cross of GP at this point. It was a big deal coming into this gen at just $15 with day 1. Now at the $30 its out of the window.

It would be a dream if they reverse everything done in 2024-2025 but I wont belive it until I see it.

@eduscxbox rare moment when I fully agree with you lol. Push your pc/cloud/whatever but also re-stock consoles, keep lucrative pricing and spend some marketing dollar on the box. Thats it.

@RegnumSolipsi never going to happen. Its way easier to bury the console as is and push PC/hybridPC. I think asus collab is the future. Maybe even this year - they already has xbox branded controller.

@FraserG the problem is its too late to bring console back. They cant do an 180 now. While I want to believe in the new xbox CEO, we know that Satya vision is publishing and cloud. The reason she is a CEO of xbox and not Sarah is to execute without asking

Looks VERY sus tbh. Cheap move

@Lanmanna when you are the only company who cant push consoles of course “sales dont matter”.
Some people here are either fanboys or plain naive. And I get it - its hard to accept that company you were rooting for years sucks.

Unless you have a massive xbox library or you specifically want xbox-branded PC - I dont see a reason to not go with playstation/nintendo or just regular PC

@Gemini53 Bottom line is if you want a proper console experience you must go with PS. I dont like Sony management and their live service push but again if you dont want PC - the only choice will be PS6 next gen. Also switch 2 but it doesnt replace pc/ps.
And by extension of that logic it makes sense to go with PS5 now and start building library there. In the end of the day you dont lose anything by switching to ps5 - you get access to their exclusives as well as better 3rd party support and of course same xbox games

Really curious what % of people will have GP ultimate next year as I know many stacked GP when it was possible till 2027.
I think we will soon reach a point when we can safely drop “did you play X via GP”