Millionski

@Noone2025 it will be super interesting to see what sony will do with ps6 handheld. If they do parity with ps6 that would be an epic fail imo. It will drag next gen even worse than series s. However buying a “next gen handheld” for 700-800 that does not promise ps6 games support (surely ps4-ps5 will work) - sounds also bad for a consumer. PC handhelds at least allow you to mess with settings and upscalers on your own.

I am also convinced ps plus will be mandatory for cloud saves (as it is now on ps5) to allow cross progression that is free with play anywhere on xbox.

@Fiendish-Beaver i agree about GP. Honestly I am still convinced it was good idea but they were lacking on marketing plus could not launch it in other platforms. Many people just did not know about game pass at all when it was prime time at $15/m with stackings up to 3 years with 67% off.

The key here it is a long-term strategy - like several decades or so. They pulled the plug on it in 7 years or so. Pretty sure at 50-70M they could be very profitable and afford low pricing - same as other subs work. You just need to grow the userbase.

It was also riduclous to see devs punished for games underperforming (in terms of sales) because of game pass - obviously it will happen with every single game with day 1 policy. Like devs dont choose the game pricing or how it will be available (via sub or not)…

However now, its over. Whatever they do now wont resurrect game pass. Its time to revamp the service into PS plus extra that does not hurt devs/games with day 1 and just present for those who want to dabble with bunch of games

@themightyant I feel like it will be just enthusiast device for solid 4-5 years this time. Same as ps6 btw at a rumored 800-1000

Pretty sure SX will serve as a still relevant cheaper option - think of next series s. For actual series S I belive parity will be dropped tho.

Alternatively they can do Helix S similar to weaker white rog ally

I just hope it runs significantly better than rog ally otherwise its a pass for me.
Big issues needs to be resolved: single center for updates, full lock screen revamp, dashboard revamp, solving windows issues with a controller only (currently have to use touch screen often)

I am also optimistic because even if its going go be the same windows with xbox mode (fse) at least it wont have extra asus layers/bloat.

@Fiendish-Beaver also since MS never committed to releasing all games on PS/N they can do whatever. Same as sony now rethinking PC ports.
Look how messaging changed in just a month of new management with Asha.

I am only confident forza horizon will always be multiplat because its the best selling MS port on PS and its half live service. And COD. Everything else can have at least timed exclusivity

@Fiendish-Beaver I think we need a very clear and easy policy for exclusives and it must be standardized. Case-by-case basis is very confusing for people.

Personally I would say every game except COD should be exclusive for 12-18 months. After that it drops to Game pass (so no day 1) and to other platforms. That way PC & xbox audience can benefit first, sales are not hurt by GP and those paying GP also benefit from lower price point ($15-20). And games get extra exposure with PS/N.
This also means removal ultimate tier in its current form. We dont need $30 sub whatever it provides - its just bad look regardless

@Fiendish-Beaver the worst move is to just remove it without lowering the price. And not sure what can be added to replace COD.

I kinda have a feeling they might just slowly start killing ultimate tier by increaseing prices and further removing value from the tier while simultaneously adding more stuff into premium - so it becomes “a bargain” in people heads. Clearly its all day 1 that hurts the most. It was only about to work with further development and aggressive marketing for GP but we know for good several years GP stopped being the focus

I think its a bad move and creates a precedent: any big game can skip GP.

I am pretty sure question is not like “remove COD and GPU will be $20 again” - if thats the case sure. But most likely not.

I also dont see any other game/sub or anything that have the weight to replace COD in GP. And lowering the value of a $30 sub is a poor idea.

I think they need to keep things as is until Helix launches. Then they will need to revisit all tiers anyways, as for example Pc GP is too good and cannibalizes on GPU if everythint becomes PC. GP core wont make sense either.
So I would say lets just wait for next gen and then do a full revamp

@kmtrain83 apparently native acces to your existing xbox library would be the difference.
And hopefully more stability/optimization on the OS as its a standardized hardware.

I just hope that Helix wont be simply xbox rog ally but desktop - currently experience is by far the worst among all other platforms: stability issues, lags, errors are exhausting compared to dedicated consoles.
They need to do a lot of work before launching Helix and make it closer to steamOS but I have my doubts.

This time they need to win me as I am for now defaulting to Ps6+S2 next gen

@Tdx I am pretty sure $30 tag wont be ever dropped. They will try to bundle more into it to justify but people wont be subbing to it regardless. Ultimately (pun intended) ultimate tier will cease to exist in its current form.

I think they will be promoting premium tier as a main. And I foresee messaging “day 1 on GP” dropping soon.
I think ultimate just doesnt make sense but no one will drop the price. On the contrary the whole “day 1” and COD will be putting upward pressure on thr pricing of ultimate relative to other tiers.

It definitely already feels way better than the past 2 years since the notorious "just 4 games" announcement.

Helix looks promising although I am very sceptical it would be good experience compared to any console. Also not sure why would devs put any work into xbox app version, all the optimizations and play anywhere while they could just drop the game as is on steam...

But I want to say on paper Helix + xbox rog ally looks like a combo for next gen. S2 and PS6 for exclusives.

I think PS6 will be $800 for the cheapest version with no disc drive.
Helix likely 1200 or so.

I also think (hope) they do the same as white rog ally = basically same looking box but with weaker specs at the same 800ish to not price people out.

@Fiendish-Beaver I meant cheaper Helix as “s” would make sense. Basically just cheaper hardware guts similar to white rog ally (non x)

A 100% we need to drop series s. And we dont need any parity.

Keeping SX as a base option is good too

@Fiendish-Beaver I think they will just do an “s” version. Same as rog ally vs rog ally x. That will be priced beyond 1k.

Or they name existing xbox SX as a bottom line and drop series s. Because current gen will be with us for a while anyways. Maybe they pull off the ps3 super slim moment with cheaply made SX so they can price at 400 or so.

But yeah I highly doubt they go 180 with exclusives policy because next gen will sell 30-50% of current gen at best. It will just hurt those games to keep exclusive.

I want to say I got it in december and that first week with device was very mixed feeling. Especially the notorious first time setup that takes ages.

They really need to figure out initial setup and all the updates. It should be within one menu and one button.

That said after 3 months or so, I have been impressed with the amount of QOL they are doing.
Still the xbox experience is very far from console - I have a switch 2 and oh boy how much more things are faster and stable. Although the rog ally experience now I would rate as 4/5. Its pretty solid now.

Helix has a chance to be an impressive device but I still gravitate more towards ps6 next gen due to exclusives and more straightforward experience of a console

@GeminiX53 well PC will be more expensive too…consoles will be cheaper anyways

@IOI I think we need “red lines” strategy with some games being permanently exclusive. And it has to be super clear rule: like these games are exclusives because xyz and these are not. Period.

I would even argue pulling xbox games from steam to xbox app exclusively to promote it but probably too extreme for Ms.

I am very curious to see how $800-900 base Ps6 and 1200 Helix will be selling in 2 years with $80-90 games.

Sony/MS/N probably target 30yr olds with stable income to afford all that and not younger gen on their phones with f2p games

@IOI I definitely feel like the Big 3 understands exactly who is the audience. Consoles are played predominantly by 25+ yr old with jobs and families. They have money to spare for their hobby. They are buying these single player AAA while younger gen plays f2p fortnite on PC and phones.
Ms wanted (wants?) to counter this with publishing/multiplatform approach which for now mostly backfired for the fans. We were literally told that this extra revenue will be utilized to allow cheaper GP/consoles and more good stuff for fanbase. Clearly it was not true.
Now for Sony/Nintendo - they are pulling from other platforms to promote their own but how they gonna get the extra growth/revenues? Obviously with higher pricing for games/consoles/accessories. Nintendo got backlash for mario kart $80 - guess what, all s2 editions with dlc are worth $80-90 (bananza, mario wonder, kirby forgotten land).
If sony fails with their multiplayer strategy and pulling off from PC - prepare for the same

@Balaam_ I agree. Series S was amazing during cross-gen era 3 years of start of this gen. As soon as games moved to EU5 and started targeting ps5, it became week. Not even mentioning the ridiculous 300gb of avalaible space that can be taken by COD and 1 single player game.

For now the best deal is digital ps5 slim

I think PC and Ultimate tiers will be removed around Helix launch. They just dont make sense. Ultimate is too bloated and expensive and PC tier wont fit with the new Helix being PC kinda.

I think there should be first party only tier and maybe premium in its current form (no day 1 games or some day 1 games but not big AAA). Basically a PS plus extra analogue which proven to be more sustainable.

@Weebleman I think digital libraries are little overvalued. Many people dont own many games and dont ever replay games they have finished already.
Also the more time passess the less value your digital games have. 5 yr old games are being sold at 70-90% discounts…

I also dont think it stopped people from seitching from xbox one to PS5 (and not xbox series) as clearly we are looking at 40M series at best at the end of the gen vs 55 or so xbox one. Good chunk of this 15M likely went with PS.

In my eyes MS aside from GP did not create a valid reason to go woth xbox series rather than ps5. Literally the ONLY reason I saw online for ps4/ps5 owners going with xbox is GP. Definitely this conversation is over now with $30 ultimate…

@Fiendish-Beaver when I saw this news I immediately remembered how we have been discussing the first party only tier all this time.
It definitely will be allowed on PS/S2 and maybe steam in such form as it sits in the same bucket as EA/ubi+ and stuff.

I really wonder what happens with Ultimate. Pretty sure it will be scrapped closer to Helix release. Same with PC GP

Is there a list which ones are play anywhere?

@Fiendish-Beaver I think its done on the console market as series s/x are the last actual consoles. Maybe its the right move long-term to merge with PC but it will be very challending: get that xbox mode properly on windows, incentivize devs to put games into xbox app and not just steam and overall offer something that Steam does not have. Chances are as soon as atni-cheat problem is figured out, steamOS can go fully live on all desktops and likely be the better system than windows (specifically for gaming, windows is unbeatable in corporate segment).

I am seriously considering PS6 next gen even tho I like rog ally and overall improvements they are making. I just feel its too late and with the new management as we know not a single xbox strategy lives for more than 5 years or so

So devs can just put the game as is on steam vs they need to do xbox build, helix build and must enable play anywhere. In other words: spend x3 effort to capture what could easily be 5%-10% of total PC sales via xbox ecosystem and the rest will be on steam.
This is really concerning. High chance devs will just release on steam and tell Helix owners to play it there.
The only incentive I see is that xbox app can have less % cut than steam takes. Otherwise its not worth it for a developer.
Using helix/any next gen xbox hardware to just go to steam big picture does not make sense. Might as well wait for steam machine or steamOS desktop version (that is planned to release soon to any PC) and install on your PC

Overall after UI/UX this could be the biggest problem with Helix and overall next-gen hardware

@Fiendish-Beaver how do you like your ps5 pro? for everyday use

@StonyKL @tho_mi I am torn in between but lean towards simplicity and stability of a console. When I thought about it - I dont really need a PC (or xboxPC) under at TV. For me the real benefit of a PC is to play with MKB the games tailored for MKB (like strategies).
I have xbox rog ally x and actually it handles those pretty well even in 2k.

I am thinking of PS6+S2+Xbor gog ally x setup for next gen. Yes I will be foregoing the play anywhere, but I just dont think I need games like RE9 on a handhled at all. Moreover, by the time Helix comes and games become more demanding, rog ally will be dated more like steam deck now.

@Fiendish-Beaver yeah I think it will be same $30 or even more but extra “justification” with a perk or another sub. I believe the goal is to fully drive people away from ultimate so they start buying games and sub for cheaper tiers where cost to put games for Ms is low.

I truly believe it was a great idea with day 1 and sustaniable long term but they decided to pull the plug on this pretty fast. The whole day 1 started around 2020 only, not in 2016 when Gp was first introduced.
And that is their problem: they have a new strategy, they try for couple of years and if doesnt go well they radically change it.

PC, Ultimate and Core GP tier need to be removed.

I think premium should become the main tier. Maybe throw in bunch of perks or several (not 75) day 1 games.

And add cheaper ad-free version for $5-7.

I still dont understand why all COD games are not in GP after 3 years of closing the ABK

@Sindayl I dont think its happening because you cant lock games after rumored $1200-1500 price tag on helix...but I think they can do temporary exclusivity for xbox series/helix/PC.

@Sol4ris I feel like credit is not given when its deserved. Sure, such change is long overdue but now its here so its a positive thing. no need to spin it around.

And we conveniently forget similar things are happening across the board. Just on top of my head these features were missing for years:
1) steam os was not allowing you to download games while in sleep
2) PS5 did not have folders
3) switch did not have bluetooth connectivuty for wireless headphones.

@Fiendish-Beaver yeah its just doesnt make sense anymore.

First of all PC GP will be merged into existing tiers. Its a steal now and wont make sense when helix launches.

Secondly, GPU will either be getting the most price hikes out of all or be scrapped alltogether. Premium will be the main tier and maybe they put in more stuff in there. Someone from IGN had a voucher idea for several day 1 games a year.
Clearly they dont want GP to steal sales anymore and overall its a side dish now vs the tentpole like in Spencer days.

I think that leaving GPU as is creates a very confusing message - do we keep "play it day 1 with GP" message at every showcase? if yes then well its half-true as half tiers cant do that. It also reinforces the GPU commitment but now GP becomes a side service. Especially since in just 2-3 years there wont be need for "Core" version for an online.

@Kezelpaso sure but then it means 5 months out of 12 already passed? even if we count every single addition so far including early access and stuff like pigeon simulator we are sitting at roughly 20 games now. we need to see 55 more.

@IOI I am completely surprised by how things are unfolding. I know xbox so they will be stepping on the rake soon and kill the positive momentum, but so far most changes has been positive when Asha stepped in.
I know they wont be doing a full 180 on everything in past years but push to console and relevance for console/hardware is good as well as seemingly dropping the "everything is an xbox" campaign - its a big W for us

@Balaam_ yeah I hope we will be able turn it off or at least it wont consume much of the resources.

Honestly I am a point in life where my gaming time is limited as have a lot of other responsibilities.
Any big open world game is a big question mark for me and I yet to beat the masterpieces such as cybperunk.

I avoid open world bloat like valhalla or this one like a plague, and rather beat several shorter but content/story rich games in the same amount of time

@Fiendish-Beaver I totally get your skepticism and pessimism (not particularly on this thread but overall). What I don't understand is you seemingly still gonna main xbox and buy helix and keep going. How does it make sense?

From every convo or comments it seems like you are dedicated console fan and you will be more happy with PS. You already got the PRO and might just go with PS6 and call it a day.

This is a genuine question btw, not trying to poke here.

@Cakefish reportedly it was Sarah's vision. I think Spencer was all in for Game Pass and he wanted to acquire studious to pump up the content (excluvises as well) into the GP. There were also many talks of launching it everywhere. After GP struggled to get in the audience, they quietly shifted to Sarah "everything is an xbox" that flopped way harder.
So now they seemingly realizing they need to go "back to roots" but obviously they cant do a 180 now and PC push and multiplatform will be there anyways

I understand that MS is trying raise some positive PR and get everyone hyped about next gen and obviously these improvements are not solely the new management merit.

That said despite a lot of (deserved) skepticism, factually in just couple of weeks we received some clarity about next gen and bunch of solid updates across the board including the console and removal of the "everything is an xbox" campaign.

That's already an amazing feat and a step into the right direction, and after 2 years of doom & gloom (feb 2024 "just 4 games") its finally some positive traction.

@Fiendish-Beaver you have to also consider that non-PA games which roughly 90% of your library will be (presumably) played in a BC mode with series x, so no improvement.

Pa games sure - you will be able to tweak settings as those are PC versions

XboxStation 6

@Fiendish-Beaver despite the pessimism are you going to buy it?

I am thinking if its even worth the hassle and do I really need a PC under TV? I use rog ally as a PC that I hook to monitor to play mkb games like strategies. i dont really need it under TV.
For me the #1 reason is do I need play anywhere or not between rog ally and under TV device? If yes then I need PC under TV (whether steam machine, helix or any). If no - then certainly a ps6…

I think the PC way is right for them in today’s reality. Sure back when series was launched, things were different and it could work out. Since it did not, I dont think another tradional xbox console SX successor would do well. Regardless of exclusives, features and price point.

However with windows PC there are 2 super big roadblocks: user experience/stability and what xbox app will offer over steam.
Chances are it will be so-so experience and that steam would be the dominant app for games/devs anyways.
I think steam machine and PC on steamOS could start eating xbox Helix market share…

So far 3 months were weak imo. Again I am now judging gpu at a $30. Sure when forza 6, fable and orhers release - absolutely worth it. But for orher months i am not sure.

seems like premium + buy your day 1 games that you want is the way to go if you want a sub at all.

My prediction is gpu will be scrapped fully along with pc GP when Helix launches

@Exerion76 its stable 60 on high settings (thats auto-preset btw)

@space_g0blin honestly I was very critical when I got it 2 months ago. It felt like a awful/mediocre experience at best. I installed bazzite instead and it was a major improvement. But the core advantage of the device was lost - access to xbox account, play anywhere titles and game pass.

I decided to give it another shot and I think now experience seems to be more stable and new features arrive all the time - like the addition of xbox sounds was cool.
They seem to be moving pretty fast with the updates so now I am more confident in the way how Helix will work