Millionski

You have to be naive at this point to trust her or MS

I think MS just doesnt have goodwill anymore. I have every right to be pessimistic and assume the worst.
If you think about it - in the past several years (I would say 2023 and after) they have never proven us wrong for thinking the worst outcome.
“Maybe they wont port all games over”
“Maybe the keep the GP price accessible”
“Maybe the dont close this studio”
“Maybe they promote consoles”
Etc etc
They did it all

I realized I dont recall a case when I could say “there you go, now we are talking”. Sure its not black and white and There were decent games and small W but it was always overshadowed by bigger Ls.

People who defend this - notice how they always talk some future/vision, etc. Its never “todays is the day to be with xbox”. Its always “when next gen starts” or “next years is pivotal” and bla bla.

@GameOverScreen @Gemini53 while I agree we are past the golden age of gaming, there are too many good comes coming every year despite the flops/live service and AI. However, if you chose any other platform aside from xbox you would ve suffered less as those companies know what they are doing. They dont change strategy 3 times a week and re-invent the wheel. We could blame sony for small 1st party output or nintendo for greed yet they firmly stay in the console market, has games, support and large community that cant be ignored.
We also have steam that is one of the most pro-consumer companies and they finally evolving from being a store to its own platform.
The only platform that sucks for years already is xbox due to the incompetent management

@Doomcrow funny enough I dont recall a single instance after 2023 that if someone who switched from xbox would regret it.

@Fiendish-Beaver yes it was spencer transition and she knew already she is not getting the role. Its in her public statement. So yesterday she knew already. But apparently she learned about not getting a role just couple of weeks ago and I bet she was pissed.

@Fiendish-Beaver there was a statement from Sarah. She worked on this transition for past several weeks. It was definitely unplanned and she got played. But she did not learn yesterday and it was not a surprise to her yesterday

This marks the end of era for me. I will definitely enjoy amazing year of games and kudos to MS/xbox for that. 2026 is great in terms of 1st party output. But I wont be investing a single $1 in their platform anymore. When my GP is expired next year I just have to decide if I want to go with PC on steamOS or PS6. Since Ps6 is likely pushed further, I might indulge in steam machine

@Kaloudz no offence but because of loyalists like you, this company do whatever they want. Its ok to criticize and not accept BS when it is clearly BS.

Emotions aside does someone honestly believe a person who never worked in gaming, who only worked 4 years in Ms in a completely different department, who is an AI first person, will be a better CEO than Phil?

I cant believe that even Sarah Bond now seems like a better candidate. I am even sad its not her. She worked her way up in Ms since 2017 and got played like that.

@eduscxbox replacing a capable CEO who resurrected xbox from ashes during x one era with an AI boss who does not have a clue about gaming is what causing an optimism? Or its caused by reading an AI-generated PR message she shared?
I suppose Ms reputation is intact so I should not doubt these decisions?

@RegnumSolipsi @Banjo- I think the biggest disappointment will happen when everyone realizes MS are not inventing a new system/OS or doing some PC integration within the xbox consoles. This is a dream or vision they are trying to sell us but you cant sit on both chairs. Consoles exist because experience on them is different from PC.
What is in fact happening is they are trying to now tell us windows PC gaming is same as playing on xbox but its not true today and it wont be true in 2-3 years when they release next gen.
Try hooking up xbox controller and booting the xbox app - it just doesnt work the same as your xbox but this is exactly and officially what they are doing (there is a roadmap for xbox FSE if you are curious)

I can also add that I own xbox rog ally and it is an awful experience. Despite GP and PA I uninstalled windows and switched to bazzite and now I finally have decent experience. This alone tells a lot…

@RegnumSolipsi honestly its (another) wake up call for us and an opportunity to give other platforms a chance. To be honest as I have all platforms I feel like xbox is the least interesting and exciting. Unless you are really into GP or constantly juggle between pc and xbox consoles utilizing play anywhere - there is literally no reason to he with them. If you are on PC you are on steam or should be on steam. Valve is the best pro-consumer company in gaming. Now PS5 is basically the “go-to” console with best support, player count, sony exclusives, xbox games day 1 and good price. And of course nintendo has their own thing with switch 2 which is a very unique and different experience by itself.

I would only mention that series X is an amazing piece of hardware and features like backward compatability and quick resume are amazing but if you dont own one yet - just forget it

I would take Sarah over some random woman from AI department. This change made Phil departure even more sourer.

I dont understand how some of yall excited. It seems like some people will just accept everything MS does.

Dont let your existing library be a factor to stay with them - thats what they are baking on. If you want proper console - get a PS5 or S2. If you want solid PC experience with console-like interface - steamOS is your choice

@Banjo- the problem is it all happened too fast. There are many people who bought xboxes after supply shortages in 2022-2023 with the promise of GP, exclusive games and the vision they had. Now just couple of years after before even next-gen we see this PC/cloud push, most of the improvements are now on windows and consoles are winding down - thats just not fair to these people.
I agree there is some cool stuff with play anywhere and people who are curious about PC but you cant change 25 years of consoles first in just 2 years with “everythint is an xbox”.

Regarding the library - I see it as a main anchor but you can keep existing xbox and do whatever next gen, or re-buy older games for cheap. How often do we replay those old games is another factor.
In my eyes staying on a platform with clear vision and that aligns with your preference is more important.

And why I should deal with this management and brand that does not value me as a customer only because I bought bunch of games 3 years ago?

@RegnumSolipsi sony somehow always manages to bounce and after bad news deliver good news. But the key point is they care about playstation - its their main business right now as they spun off TV. They will do everything so playstation consoles thrive - something MS could not do in the last 2 gens.
They will have console with features and exclusives and I think for a casual console player thats very important. They are millions of people who are happy with their boxes and dont want anything with PC or cloud

There is no future for xbox. Exit consoles to PC where they will fail and lose to steam.
Only cloud and publishing. GP will be likely used mainly to access xcloud

@OldGamer999 doesnt matter what they do. Avoid like a black plague. Its shell of an xbox that we loved and its not worth our time/money/loyalty

Did she run the statement with AI? Too much PR talk and repeating what Satya said many times.

I dont know I just dont believe her and MS at all.

@OldGamer999 I got into xbox one x from ps4 because of Phil vision, game pass, backwards compatibility and other improvements. It felt like underdog fighting for consumer. Now they dont fight. They just milk us and dont care if we leave.
It was a good run and I consider series X and one X the best consoles from hardware standpoint/design.
But its time to openly admit no matter how hard I try I cant be their fan anymore.
I have 2 xbox series x, 4 controllers, xbox rog ally and game pass. And I am moving on to the competiton next gen

Is Sony management better? We saw with recent news - NO. However, they will have a monopoly in 5-7 years in the “stationary console under tv” space. Like it or not PS5 and PS6 will be de-facto consoles for players an devs. So the choice is now PC or PS with PC also might look into steamOS

@space_g0blin Todays news feels like closure to me. I will keep playing on my SX but not renewing GP and next gen going with competition. I think its time for us to move on

@OldGamer999 @Cakefish @Fiendish-Beaver I dont want to be part of xbox that is run by Satya and AI fanatics who dont care about games. They treat gaming as MS office or one drive - no thanks.
It feels like xbox soul is just dead. You know how companies like bungee is not the same anymore - its just a familiar name without a soul.
Same feeling with xbox

I will cherish my xbox series X as a last proper xbox console.

I am fully done with whatever they do next. PS + switch and maybe steamOS PC next gen

@Fiendish-Beaver I am 1000% agree and it definitely feels like what was Phil planning for years with Game pass and all these acquisitions simply got cut during ABK deal.
They just did not want this long-term slow process, dealing with consoles and GP. Probably ABK was an excuse to do this restructuring.
I am sure GP strategy with exclusives at a low price point was very viable and resembles the netflix model. Of course xbox anywhere and $30 tag burried GP as something viable.
Reportedly (rumours) he was against all these changes that came after feb 24…

Shocking news (but kinda predictable). Very sad and bad day for xbox. The guy literally resurrected xbox during xbox one era, he was pro-console and invented game pass. When he was acquiring bethesda he planned “Netflix” model with exclusives in GP. We also were seeing aggressive pricing, $1 deals and conversion for GP. And of course backwards compatibility.

I think he was pushed aside after ABK deal. MS simply cancelled his strategy and replaced with all this AI, PC, cloud, play anywhere BS. Youd could see how defeated he looked in feb 24 with “just 4 games” and on the following interviews. I am pretty sure he was against all that.
I dont want to paint him as saint as he did a lot of bad decisions and we have seen poor output of games during his time. But I believe if it was not for Phil, xbox would be dead during xbox one era.

I bet when time comes he will share a lot of interesting insights.

@HonestHick

I disagree on multiple fronts:
1) If steam magically appears on existing xbox OS (thats been the same and just getting updates since xbox one) - that would be a dream. But I dont think its possible. Clearly what they are doing is adding “xbox” features on windows with this FSE. There will be night and day difference between xbox OS and Windows loading into FSE.
See they want to unify all platforms and its easier to do under windows than xbox Os.
I simply wont beleive it until I see it. I am confident we will be getting regular windows that just loads into FSE - because they are openly do it today and have a roadmap. The only thing in question is backwards compatibility with your non-play anywhere library.

2) “MS did not go easy on series consoles” - absolutely because they had different management and strategy back then. They wanted to push consoles and GP at that time. Hence series s and cheap GP. It was Phil strategy. Now with Satya and Amy - its all about less hardware, minimum effort and play anywhere - and squezing every dollar ASAP. Completely different times now.

3) “PS5 and xbox are PC” - they have PC specs but designated OS that is different from windows. For example you can now install steam OS (bazzite) on xbox rog ally and get better pefromance in games and overall responsiveness because its better optimized Os.

4) 5090 at 1000 bucks is not even a funny joke. Steam machine will be closer to that price tag with base ps5 level specs

@Gemini53 I think creating dualboot, unique OS or proper Series X emulator is too complicated. MS seemingly wants to go the easiest way - everything is an xbox. You can get your PA library at any windows PC, whether xboxPC or asus xboxPC. Legacy xbox titles (non-PA) can be streamed or accessed natively via series consoles.

They already sidelined the handheld and went with asus. I expect they do the same with desktopPC-xbox.

They will get backlash anyways when they reveal a price tag and that next xbox is windows PC

@Gemini53 I think next xbox will be exactly like rog ally, just more polished given they work alot on windows improvements.
I have not seen a single report saying they do something unique for xboxPC. It also aligns with “xbox anywhere” - so any PC could be xbox, not just their own xboxPC.

There is too much hassle to create a steam lite or remove Ps games or anythint from a niche device that is next xboxPC

@Fiendish-Beaver I estimate 10-20M lifetime although I think the whole terminology of generations would die out. The messaging would be “xbox anywhere” with their own xboxPC is just another option along with PC, existing series consoles (that I believe would be dragged well thru 2030s) and competitor consoles (where you can also play xbox games) and cloud.

The whole idea of proper generations, unique hardware and features will be gone.
Developers want to ship on many devices including low end like series s, switch 2, pc handhelds.

So in my eyes its irrelevant how next xbox PC sells as it wont affect MS plans in any way. And whats more important is to understand which ecosystem is better for you tho I fail to understand what MS does better than any other player on the market. They only cool features are GP and PA but GP is too costly and PA is also a feature with steam devices.

@HonestHick @Fiendish-Beaver @Cakefish PA games will be native on PC xbox but there is no guarantee that your non-PA games (which is likely 80%+ of your xbox library) would be native downloads. There is a high chance it will be streamable only. This will definitely upset people so they push PA hard now (notice how it started only recently although PA itself is 10 years old) so in next 2-3 years you build a sizable PA library and would be more prone to go with xbox next gen.
Thats the speculation tho but it aligns with how rog xbox ally works and with rumours of multiple SKUs and licensing xboxPC next gen.
I also have not seen a single report saying MS is working on a unuqie OS for xboxPC - rather just windoes improvements on xbox app - that again adds to the point you wont be able to play natively your xbox non-Pa games

@Gabrie I think the core problem is among big gaming platform holders (Microsoft, valve, sony, nintendo) gaming is core business for all except MS. Nintendo almost fully depend on switch, valve is steam and for sony (espefially after spinning off TV) playstation is most important. For Ms xbox is like 10% of revenues or so which is still a lot but it leads to a problem where its not their main focus. And in past couple of years it became awfully apparent. They are fastest to wind down and restructure their gaming business while N/Sony and now valve always try to find ways to sale you a platform, games, provide some unique experience.
So I think long term the best bet would be steam or Sony + switch on the side.

@Fiendish-Beaver if xboxPC offers true console experience and PC freedom - I will be standing next to you day 1 in the line to get it.
However, I have a lot of evidence (plus lack of trust of MS) that it will be more of a PC first with some improvements to make it “feel like” console but will be far from SX or PS5.

Here is a thing - I really decided to embrace MS vision when I bought ally x. I also thought maybe if I only play within xbox interface (full screen experience) and only play my xbox (pc) games then I can avoud the faff. Man I was greatly mistaken.
Issues starts when you launch the device with 50% of the time lock screen having issues. Then you would think game pass games will work no problem? Try launching diablo 4, jedi survibor and assassins creed - do you know what happens? Yes you will get redirected to battle net, ubisoft app and ea play app. Again half wont open automatically, and overall it will be slow.
And cherry on top is you get more fps on bazzite in same games…

This experience completely killed my interest and trust in xboxPC.
If they do just series X 2 console - initially I thought I would buy it but then whats the point as it will flop guaranteed and sales matter for consoles. The only real benefit of their PC direction - sales wont matter and at its worst you can just have a regular PC windows gaming experience - which is fine if you are ok with PC.
If you are console mindset first - stay away.

Long-term I just dont see them having a platform at all except cloud as PA will die with the series gen in 5-7 years and GP is already going downhill. I just dont understand what they can offer over steam/PS/N if you are gamer…

@Fiendish-Beaver sure based on leaks xbox will be more powerful than ps6 but does it matter if experience is meh? We know for a fact that any console beats playing on PC in terms of simplicity and no faff.
Especially for you I dont think few extra fps worth it if you need to mess with your xboxPC and solve windows issues with a controller from the couch.

For example it took me 1 week to wipe out my xbox rog ally x and get bazzite OS (steamOS essentially) as its WAY better experience. And its still worse imo than PS5/SX. Thats how big of a difference windows PC gaming is vs consoles.
Man as a console person I definitely forgot how frustrating is windows PC…
If I would make a bet today, most (including you) after using xboxPC will happily go to PS6.

Again for now there is more evidence of next xbox being same as rog ally x rather than its own unique system like series s/x.

Whether for the best version possible - thats only on high end PC which will be even more expensive due to ram issues…

@OldGamer999 @ilyn its an interesting topic about sony exclusivity. Technically sure they can stop all 3rd party exclusivity whatsoever. And they can only keep core franchises from xbox.
However sony created a new problem for themselves - PC. Notice how all conversations in past 2 years shifted from xbox vs ps5 to PC vs ps5? Especially as there are Pcs under 1000 and we have a more expensive ps5 PRO at 750, which narrows the price gap. Plus steam machine this year.

So the new problem for sony will be when launching ps6 - why buy it (aside from fans) if games will be cross gen and exclusives launch in a year on PC?
I think they will need to change strategy and dial down on exclusives ports to PC if they want to push ps6 consoles…

@Fiendish-Beaver another game you will play on ps5 PRO the list seems to be growing.

@TheGameThrifter exactly. This only works if everyone does it. Otherwise whoever does it first suffers the most.
I dont know it was kind of expected.
I remember that we were discussing this in 2024 and I think consensus was - either port out some games (for example older games), or have a proper 1 year exclusivity window for all games. Or there was an opinion on having core franchises (red lines) that just always exclusive and the rest can be whatever.
Either of those would be better that what we have today. We do have random 6 months exclusivity of forza 6 but seemingly its more of an exception now.

I even notice people on youtube and forums just already except all xbox games come to ps5. They are also confused with this messed approach.

If you port everything - then competitors must follow. If they dont you are screwed.

@OldGamer999 honestly there is no a proper solution to get your xbox games on PC. Its either full SX emulator or dual boot - both are very complicated choices.
Now seeing how they push PA, I am convinced only PA will be native download while the rest cloud only. Basically what was with xbox ally.
And while now it faced a backlash, in 2 years when people build decent PA libraries and the % of PA games becomes like 30-50, the exactly same scenario will get less backlash.

Fun story: my cousin in Germany wanted to buy an xbox for gta 6. He did not have a console.
He walked thru local store in Dresden to learn that they only sell ps5 and switch. He had to order xbox from official website and wait 1 month to get it. He really wanted an xbox and not a ps5 so he still did and ordered 2tb galaxy one for 600 euro.
In a couple of days he was browsing same store and that coincided with them starting a sale: they had discount for ps5 slim - just 380 euro. Guess what happened with 1 try? Yes, He walked away with a ps5 and bunch of games and cancelled his xbox order.
I talked to him recently, he bought bunch of games via psn and has ps plus. He will be buying ps6 next gen.
End of story.

Honestly unless you really want to embrace PC (and all pros/cons coming with it), its just safer and calmer with ps5 and ps6 next gen.
Every single year there is a big title skipping platform/delaying. BG3, wukong, dispatch and now silent hill.
I know its not the end of the world - they are many games but anyways why?
This is simply not fair for us who bought exactly same $500 machine as a competitor 5 years ago.
And 2 years ago you could say yeah but we have GP, our own exclusives (forza 5, hifi rush among the decent ones), cheaper hardware (series s) - how is it going now?
What is a real benefit now over ps5? Quick resume probably the last one…

@Fiendish-Beaver chances are higher with every report that they follow asus xbox ally path. This means all the windows faff from the couch but with a controller.
It also still unclear if backward compatibility will be native and not cloud+PA only like on ally.

Its getting more and more clear its essentially windows PC that works with a controller designed for Tv. Whether good or bad you decide but I would bet money it will be worst experience among all consoles and steamOS but indeed offer the most flexibility.

And yes doesnt seem like it will have unique features so your current pc might be good already and become xboxpc in 2 years.

Honestly the more we discuss it and the more comments I see from you, I tend to believe you have to move on with PS5 PRO-PS6 and call it a day. Just keep your SX and use it for games you already own.

@kmtrain83 the only 2 benefits with console/PC hybrid is it will be fully operational with a controller (launching, navigating UI, turning off) and it should support your existing game library on xbox.
However both features presumably will be available on any windows machine which means there is no benefit if you already have a powerful PC.

This is where I get confused because I initially thought xbox FSE would be exclusive to licensed devices like asus rog ally but its confirmed the rollout is this year for windows. I think its already in beta if you want it today

Can someone explain how exactly they are going to see growth in PC market? These xboxPCs or whatever will be very niche market. You are telling me they have more chances to beat steam on PC market than playstation on the console market? This PC growth will be offset by losses from console business.
Basically, they are abandoning 50-60M console market (active series + xbox one users) for maybe 20M if lucky of those xboxPC combined across MS own and partnered. And on consoles people are forced to buy GP core at least to play online games, which converts to more people opting to more expensive tiers (“I am paying for core anyway, might as well get premium/ultimate” logic) and on top of that all purchases are locked into xbox store. On these PCs people will be less subbing for GP and less spending in xbox app.

The only benefit I see for Ms is to get rid of those R&D costs, distribution and console marketing in future generations.

@Cakefish yes I saw that. “Will maintain compatibility with existing library” - does it say natively? Does it say with full library?

Cloud streaming is not an option for me and you but does MS care? Why do you think they started pushing play anywhere so hard lately?

I am not convinced at all until I see it.

It baffles me that people just want to believe in miracles that somehow there will be THE device to rule them all: as good as PC and as convenient as a console but its nothing more than a dream or vision rather than a reality…

MS can probably get a piece of pre-built PC market but definitely they are losing console audience and general PC audience that likes to build their own machines.

@Gabe250 steam machine will happily take that niche this year.

@IOI yeah. I have GP till 2027 and then thats it.
I dont want to keep investing in xbox maybe except gta 6.

I am deciding though if I should go with steamOS (eaither steam machine or 3rd party licensed) or PS5-PS6 and thats a tough choice.

@Cakefish no one ever confirmed native backwards compatibility to be honest. Chances are they say play anywhere and the rest is cloud as backwards compatibility. They are extending series s/x gen and that will be the response if you want to keep your xbox versions on the xbox consoles.

I called it last year that we will get something from partners like asus. There is no coincidence they already presented an xbox-style asus controller that without a doubt will be coming with their own asus xboxPC.
I also suspect this can happen this year as well given the impressive (without any sarcasm) lineup this year.

And as expected chances for real xbox-PC hybrid that has full native compatibility with xbox games and has some unique features are getting slimmer with every report. We are definitely seeing just pre-built PC with badge and the only benefit is working with a controller from the box (although its not clear how comfortable it will be dealing with windows issues from a couch with a controller).

After I tried rog xbox ally I realized I dont want this experience and I dont have faith they can fully change how windows works with it in just 2 years…

Next xbox is just a windows PC with xbox controller. I dont even believe native backward compatibility at this point. Prob PA+cloud similar to ally

GP is cooked at this point. They will just add cloud tier and everything else is either too expensive or useless. PC GP is too good now at $16 - a 100% change is coming soon.

Overall, I think what started as a cool concept and was cheap (it launched at $10) kinda became a commitment now or just not worth it for most players.

All the stackings and conversions schemes are nerfed/will be further nerfed.

Definitely a change in a strategy where GP is not a main thing anymore - just a side dish for diehards

@Fiendish-Beaver i think MS are hugely mistaken thinking most console players want anything to do with PC. While I see a lot of enthusiasts like us interested in this idea, casual player just doesnt need it. They will always choose the least resistance and convenience and the price over anything else.

So in the next 5-10 years MS gonna lose 50M console share (between series and xbox one gens) for I would say a 1/3 of it that will actually convert to xboxPC or just PC but favour xbox app due to GP and PA.
Then revenues will fall when they realize no one cares about all that and wants a bigger library, better discounts with steam.
So I think in 10 years only publishing and cloud will be sustainable with GP likely being just an entry into cloud.

If you think about it its funny they are running away from sony and consoles where they had every opportunity to get market share (and hence more revenues and more GP subs) to the PC market that is dominated by steam for at least 15 years. The only reason I see is they just dont want to deal with consoles whatever the opportunity cost might be and any exit is fine. PC path seems the lotical one but I would argue then xbox app should have exclusives (so games not available in steam) and GP should be priced aggressively

@themightyant yes there will be backwards compatibility. Now the key part - did they officially confirm NATIVE compatibility with our xbox versions of games?
They also claim rog ally plays your xbox games with an asterisk being only play anywhere and the rest are streamable.
It will be really hard to create something like proton that took valve many years, it will also he hard make a proper SX emulator and it also confusing for player to have any dual boot.
None of these options are easy to implement. Now the main question- why do you think they push Play anywhere so actively? It exists for 10 years but only last year it became an actual topic, they now mention it on their xbox presentations. So my theory is they bank on us having a sizeable PA library by the time next gen launches so its gonna be not 5-10% like right now but 30-50% and its gonna be easier to swallow the fact backward compatibility is only for PA and the rest is cloud.
Sorry but I iust think they will go the easiest way which is get rid of consoles and xbox OS, promote xbox FSE on PC and try to convince us “its the same” (its not) as your xbox.
There is just no magic pill to suddenly have best of PC and xbox console in 1 device.

Yes FSE is awfull. I am a xbox rog ally x owner and I uninstalled windoes compleyely in a week. Neither GP nor play anywhere convinced me to tolerate bad UI and UX