Millionski

@themightyant they “loved” switch 1 because its second best selling console of all time. Not sure same goes with steam deck. But my point is if device that sells 5-6M and gets solid support then Helix should be fine.

I think Ms understands its their last chance with it so might go hard.

Bottom line helix at it worst is a solid PC and PS6 is also another solid option.

@Cakefish @Gabrie I think second biggest challenge (first is UI/UX and stability of FSE) is not be devoured on PC by steam.
This is really high possibility.

They really need to stimulate devs and users to use xbox app if not over steam but along with steam.

The good news are if someone to buy helix - worst case you can just do it all in steam big picture or more radically wipe out windows and get steamOS that soon will be rolled out (likely sometime after steam machine).

@themightyant I am looking at steam deck with its 5-6M copies and that devs still optimize for it. I think they dont want to overlook the Helix that will sell same or more. But its crucial to not create a lot of headache for devs to launch of xbox app over steam.

We probably dont want to be in a sitaution where you launch Helix xbox mode just to switch to Steam big picture lol. But anyways it will be more powerfull than steam machine so kinda whatever.

I think they are addressing the problem that was with Series Gen - 3rd party skipping/delaying the platform. I know it was not THAT bad but still games like Wukong or dispatch were delayed.

Most importantly they need to stimulate devs and users to use xbox app (FSE, xbox mode) and not steam - this will be a real challenge

@Cakefish I think currently xbox app is pretty weak on windows.

I think it will be slightly more work for devs but you are increasing the reach towards people who play on windows PC (both handhelds and devices like Helix). And all this aimed to create an advantage for a user to buy via xbox app over steam (with graphical presets, optimization, PA and stuff) while not creating a lot of headache for a dev. Which is a correct thinking in my eyes.

My thinking is devs really care about steam deck that sold just 5-6M or so. I think Helix will sell same or more over time so it wont be ignored.

Overall I agree they need to find this balance so devs just dont be like "if you are on helix just go on steam" - this kinda defeats the purpose in my eyes.

@Balaam_ I kinda disagree here. most people play on 1 device anyways so PA doesnt hurt sales. If you play on both you might be de-motivated to buy 2 copies of the same game so PA removes this barrier and can actually increase sales.
And also seems like people now pay attention if a game is PA so it boosts its visibility too - again people who play on multiple devices

Thats exactly what I was saying for a while - steam and stuff wont magically appear on xbox OS that is on xbox series, it will be windows PC that loads into FSE and you can go to steam if you want.
They just seem to rename FSE into xbox mode (and good for them! full screen experience is an awful name).
Now for me personally, most important is how they can improve in 1.5-2.5 years time freame until Helix launch (nov 27 or nov 28 respectively).
I am mostly fine with Xbox Ally but its a clunky experience right now. My list has at least 20-30 things that needs to be completely redone.

My decision to buy this device will be dictated by how smooth this experience will be. I am even OK with higher price tag - I will save on subs like PS plus so over years its the same but have the PC freedom.
If it turns out to be the notorious faff and experience will be frustrating then no thanks.
For now I am cautiosly optimistic as I do believe its possible to improve on existing FSE

@Gemini53 yeah like RE8 is also but not Re4. weird.

The only thing about play anywhere - next gen after SX/PS5 slowly phade away, it will be pointless as all devices will be on PC so you have play anywhere by default. Same as if you buy PC version of the game via xbox app and play on your windows PC and rog ally

@BacklogBrad I think its literally the main feature right now for xbox ecosystem today. If you want to play on mutliple devices - you need xbox ss/sx and pc handheld such as ally.

GP is quietly being converted into "sub for bunch of older games".

I agree with you. Going PC is good long-term. I just hope they can deliver the UI/UX on windoes which is a big question mark for now. Ally is not that bad but clunky still. Definitelly you feel the difference between xbox FSE on windows and any console on the market.

@OldGamer999 Booty just said they are not going full publisher. And they are doing hardware at least 1 more gen with Helix.
But I agree its all gonna be PC but I am unsure at this point if its good or bad.
In my eyes another SX console would be doomed anyways, the whole PC thing is more flexible and can find its audience.

Objectively speaking Helix will have unique features over ps6 simply because of the whole PC thing while potential SX successor would not.

This is the best news so far and the reason why I now have more faith in xbox than in the past 2 years.
They still need to deliver a lot to prove us but its a good start

@Gemini53 I think most of the faff is in the past but still if I would give a complete newbie windows Pc out of the box (lets say a pre-built or laptop) and a PS5 - obviously it will be way easier to get into gaming from a PS5.

That said in my eyes steamOs if you play only optimized games is as good and stable as Sx/ps5/s2.

I think the “Helix” optimized and graphical presets are they way to go.

I just hope MS can get closer to steamOS and have concerns.
However I am mostly happy with how things are on my ally X - i feel like give it a year or two and it can be very smooth. Basically initial setup, quick resume, overall responsiveness and lock screen are on top of the list

@IOI playing on ally currently and its the proxy for next xbox essentially. Experience is clunky at times and not super stable but I would not say unbearable. But after initial setup you dont really deal with any updates. Bugs are less common now too as they release patches all the time.
Regarding the optimization - they have default profiles and “handheld optimized” similar to steam deck. I think if they go this way with Helix - it would resolve these concerns.

Initially I was critical of Ally, but spending more time with it and seinf how quickly they fix pronlems and add new stuff - I think in 2 years or so its very doable to have solid experience simular to steam os.

But i totally agree if you want absolutely 0 fuss your choice is PS5-PS6

@StylesT I dont understand what is the problem if PC version is always same with console but with graphical settings. Its more about optimization that is important - its the same already with PC games - some are buggy mess and some are optimized for weaker hardware

I think 2027 will be the release year. 6-12 months window will be enough for devs as they are anyways developing games for SX/SS and PC.
Windows FSE rollout in April so they have 1.5 years to go thru common issues.
I just dont expect any technical miracle during first years of helix/ps6. Just better graphics and ray tracing. “PRO” like improvements if you wish.

I dont know what yall want. “New gen” for 3 years or so is basically old gen that works better. Thats the norm since sx/ps5 launch abd honestly similar was xbox one/ps4.

No one will release a AAA systemseller available excsluively on the new hardware. Math is different know. Even Nintendo did not as mario kart was mixed reception and basically most copies are bundle. Bananza was amazing but not a systemseller

@Balaam_ what was ps5 and S2 “next gen” on a release? Only crossgen. Same here and likely same with ps6. Next gen only 3-5 years after launch.

@MondoBondo worms armageddon from 360/ps3 would be insane! I love reloaded on PC (that also will be available) but the console version was slightly different and I merely enjoyed it

Amazing news. A big W! They are really trying?

I am at the point of let xbox do their own thing and have a community around it. Even if niche.
For example There is a very positive community around steam deck and sure will be the same for steam machine.

I am in rog ally reddit and man people enjoy the device despite it shortcomings. This is the energy I am missing on these purexbox, push where its literally console wars all the time.

All this console war, sales and “but look at playstation” stuff needs to stop for good next gen as we will have everyone in their niche: PC, xbox Helix as a hybrid and steam machine, traditional console PS6, hybrid/portable S2.

Who are unhappy with xbox - there are other solid options in the market.
And I am saying it as I dont know for now whether I am the target audience for helix or not. But I think Ms at this point rather close the console chapter and I have a peace with it.

I was thinking about this and I agree.

they need to release beefy SX2 (sort of a PRO machine) at 700-800. This could create problem for devs again so I think the better solution is to have weaker Helix S at 700-800 price point. It will play all SX games and PC but on lower settings. Again no issues for devs as its a PC.

Like we do have rog ally and rog ally X.

They already have FSE and cloud dashboard. This is not happening.

@Fiendish-Beaver the earliest helix will launch in 1.5 years so might just enjoy the ps5 pro mate. As soon as you get helix ps5 pro will be secondary

@IOI what is the solution? I dont think releasing a 800 SX 2 with bunch of exclusives and udpated controller will make it suddently selling same as PS6.
I think this ship is long sailed so might as well try the PC hybrid. At its worst you will get a PC that is booting from a controller which aint that bad. and we wont have any problem with 3rd party support - PC supports surpasses any console

I think narrative will be SX as a low-end and continuous commitment. Probably price drop or a new revision (that is cheaper to make like ps3 super slim back in a day).
Series s probably will drop the parity feature. it should not drag next gen anymore.
xcloud as a super low end.
and Helix as a main next gen device

@Fiendish-Beaver PC games pass will be removed/merged with premium/ultimate/essential.
overall definitely another major revamp of GP tiers is coming

I think the most important thing is Helix needs to solve a very long list of rog xbox ally problems within UI/UX. And it must support natively our xbox libraries.
If they deliver all this on a decent level (somewhat close to steamOS would be amazing) - then we are looking at a device that is more expensive but have a lot of capabilities and unique in some form.

If they fail, Helix will be netiher as simple and "cheap" as a console neither as convenient and flexible as a regular PC - I think this is the worst case scenario.

Regarding sales, it would be niche device but I think surpassing steam machine which would be enough to keep going.

@Fiendish-Beaver I personally think they exhausted everything they could on a console market.

I think if they did everything that people want, they still would be 3st place and behind the competition. sure they wouldve sold more xboxes, maybe even slightly improve over xbox one. But it would be the same narrative and the only benefit I would see is that we wouldnt have to wait for black myth and dispatch.

Now as of today, traditional console like SX would fail and would sell below the SX/SS anyways...so maybe they can try with this weird xboxPC thing.

I have more certainty investing into a PC-like device as at a worst you will have access to steam and else, if you just stop using xbox app at all.
And we will be choosing between conceptually different devices next gen which is also interesting. Sure Helix will be more expensive but will have more capabilities and will be more powerfull. In my eyes its better than the current situation where SX perceived as something that is more expensive than ps5 but is "worse"

@Fiendish-Beaver to be fair parents wont be buying 800 pound PS6 either. The niche of an entry level console will be taken by S2.

Overall these times are gone and console players are in their 20s at a minimum.

Series S or ps5 base could be for Timmy today, next gen its prob gonna be a tablet unfortunately...

@IOI I am cautiously optimistic as its first time since feb 2024 I am hearing focus on console, 1st party and seemingly dropping the "xbox anywhere" strategy. but yeah who knows. obviously they need to hype things up.

I personally thought they will double down on "everything is an xbox" and did not expect any hardware tease at this point

@Fiendish-Beaver Most important above all is to bring back sense of a community and that you are doing things "your way".

I think Sarah's campaign "everything is an xbox" eroded brand the most as xbox stopped being something unique/separate and exactly as you are saying same as Capcom or Ubi. Seemingly they are dropping it now. "future is now" or whatever is the slogan and while it doesnt make sense its already better.

You need something to attract the player not repel him.

To see them TALKING about console, hardware, 1st party and stuff - thats already way better than everything from after ABK closure. Not gonna like I was really surpsied by all this - was pretty sure they are going to embrace "everything is an xbox" even further...

I want a clear vision (whatever it is), some form of exclusivity and focus on hardware. Also big changes are needed for GP.

@KITG_Group_BrunoB Helix wont be for casuals thats for sure

@StonyKL I think it will be for several target audiences:

1) people with big xbox console libraries who want to keep gaming on xbox device.
2) Same market as steam machine but just seemingly more powerful solution - like a mid-range pre-built PC. Basically people who dont want to build PC themselves but are interested in playing in front of a TV.
3) people who are on consoles today but want to migrate to PC. Helix will be their "bridge" as it will be smoother experience than regular PC and again their existing games will be supported.
4) People who play on multiple devices. Until the rumored PS handheld comes out this is currently with MS or Valve only with PC devices (desktop + handheld).
5) diehards who buy whatever is labelled an xbox

Absolutely, it wont compete with PS6 directly and I do expect a big chunk of people move to PS6 simply due to price tag and ease of understanding: here is the console, here are the exclusives, you are good to go.

@Fiendish-Beaver I think it will be the same as Valve and steam machine: priced as similarly spec-ed PC.

What is more interesting if any PC would be basically "convertable" to such xboxPC or not. a month ago I woulve said yes, but now vision seemingly changing as MS finally realizing you cant launch a new product and then market as "you dont need it, play anywhere stuff".

Microsoft does have more bargaining power with suppliers though as compared to Valve, so could be slightly better value for the buck.

But I dont expect them to subsidize it, at least not that aggressively as a console. The "fear" is the same as with valve that companies will use it as PC and dont invest into gaming a dime.

@TheGameThrifter any proof its still being subsidized? most consoles stop being sold at a loss around 2-3 years into gen. For PS5 I remember it was before even slim was released. You could argue they were earning on slim arelady. I dont think its much different for SX.

@Llamageddon I have a similar prediction but in USD.

PS6 will be more than PS5 PRO = so 800 USD.
Helix = I would say 1299 USD tops. Otherwise even for diehards its gonna be painfull

@IOI the point is I dont think xbox series X is subsidized anymore. Same goes with PS5 consoles since slim was released.

@PsBoxSwitchOwner still a niche device tho compared to major players. does not mean its bad -> that was my point.

It baffles me that everyone is still into console wars and console sales. For xbox this ship has long sailed.

I think its more important if Helix will be good and polished experience and how exactly will it play our xbox (non-PC, non play anywhere) games.

@Fiendish-Beaver I think you can finally relax on the idea of them abandoning hardware whatsoever. I think this news is good regardless. At least they are coming up with a new device.

I agree with this device being niche and not selling even close to series s/x. I dont agree with them stopping in 3 years or so. I think stock just will be limited and it will be distributed same as rog ally - every store has a small amount or so and then it gets restocked.
Asha is pushing actively for "roots and console" to pull it off in 3 years as you say

@GamingGod did steam deck bomb then? sold 4M or so. However, I only hear positive things about it online and people are happy with it. its one of the most praised devices overall by consumer sentiment and at its price point...

seems like its not failure only if the device can outsell switch or PS

@PsBoxSwitchOwner niche is bad for consoles: devs dont want to prioritize your platform => games are skipping or have poor optimization, fewer people online, less discs in stores. I agree here.

now how does it matter if a device is essentially a PC? it will have games if not in xbox app then on steam that will be integrated anyways. For example, rog ally does not need to sell in droves to be supported by Asus/MS and games wont ever be a problem if hardware can handle it.

I am going to be devil advocate (and you know I criticize MS alot) but I think its too late for them to just release the standard console. It will never catch up to PS6 or S2. Its just not happening. You can return exclusives, lower GP price and such - sure you can probably sell more than series gen if you are lucky but hardly a win.

This is them trying to create a different device and compete in a niche with steam machine or pre-build mini-PC basically. And provide a bridge for console people who wanted to dip toes into PC.

For a console market I think they can maybe create a cheap version of SX and extend its life cycle. Similar to ps3 super slim that was super poor quality but price at 250 (remember ps3 started at 600). So cheap SC for like 399 might work too.

@Coletrain exactly niche by itself is not bad automatically. I am less worried about potential sales or even price.
However, I need to know how it will be different from PC, will they be able to figure out "console" feel on this device and things like that.

@IOI @Fiendish-Beaver @OldGamer999 @Weebleman

This device will be niche like steam deck/steam machine but we dont call those failures. Steam deck sold only 4M but actively supported.
I think MS fully understands that this device wont be able to compete with PS6. The price alone will drive people away.
However, the good news are on the PC market the sales of hardware dont matter that much.

Helix will sell several millions worst cast which is enough for MS dev teams to keep supporting the device with updates and such. Ideally if they could work on the optimization for games but at worst it will work like any regular PC.

I am more interested to see how exactly xbox games (console) will be accessed on Helix and whether they still with xbox FSE on windows or go further with merging the OS. Of course the UI/UX is on top of the list too.
It needs to do things differently than any other PC

@Cakefish we also need to weight importance of sony exclusives as their output is small (2 games a year + occasional 3rd party exclusive). This time we would see 2 completely different devices and philosophy between PS6 and Helix. It would be really tough choice...

@Cakefish exactly - this is a good question. I hope they do more than just xbox rog ally (which I like but its a half measure). Ideally native backward compatibility and some features that arent availabe on just any PC.
If they want to sell this fella, they need unique proposition.

What I can say is the good part is you are getting a solid PC at worst. THe most interesting part is how it will run existing console games and will UI/UX make a considerable jump in 1-2 years as now its pretty rough experience.

@itsfoz seemingly all steam games that will work on any windows 11 device.

This is exactly what I was telling going to happen. There wont be a designated xbox OS or some new OS. It will be exactly like Ally which I have a mixed feeling about but overall leaning to a positive after giving it another fair shot.
So maybe its a good thing.

What I want to know is how "Xbox" games exactly will be played? I really hope it can play xbox and not PC versions of games I bought on xbox consoles NATIVELY. Again I dont see any mention that all our console games will be available to download and play