Millionski

@Sindayl I dont think its happening because you cant lock games after rumored $1200-1500 price tag on helix...but I think they can do temporary exclusivity for xbox series/helix/PC.

@Sol4ris I feel like credit is not given when its deserved. Sure, such change is long overdue but now its here so its a positive thing. no need to spin it around.

And we conveniently forget similar things are happening across the board. Just on top of my head these features were missing for years:
1) steam os was not allowing you to download games while in sleep
2) PS5 did not have folders
3) switch did not have bluetooth connectivuty for wireless headphones.

@Fiendish-Beaver yeah its just doesnt make sense anymore.

First of all PC GP will be merged into existing tiers. Its a steal now and wont make sense when helix launches.

Secondly, GPU will either be getting the most price hikes out of all or be scrapped alltogether. Premium will be the main tier and maybe they put in more stuff in there. Someone from IGN had a voucher idea for several day 1 games a year.
Clearly they dont want GP to steal sales anymore and overall its a side dish now vs the tentpole like in Spencer days.

I think that leaving GPU as is creates a very confusing message - do we keep "play it day 1 with GP" message at every showcase? if yes then well its half-true as half tiers cant do that. It also reinforces the GPU commitment but now GP becomes a side service. Especially since in just 2-3 years there wont be need for "Core" version for an online.

@Kezelpaso sure but then it means 5 months out of 12 already passed? even if we count every single addition so far including early access and stuff like pigeon simulator we are sitting at roughly 20 games now. we need to see 55 more.

@IOI I am completely surprised by how things are unfolding. I know xbox so they will be stepping on the rake soon and kill the positive momentum, but so far most changes has been positive when Asha stepped in.
I know they wont be doing a full 180 on everything in past years but push to console and relevance for console/hardware is good as well as seemingly dropping the "everything is an xbox" campaign - its a big W for us

@Balaam_ yeah I hope we will be able turn it off or at least it wont consume much of the resources.

Honestly I am a point in life where my gaming time is limited as have a lot of other responsibilities.
Any big open world game is a big question mark for me and I yet to beat the masterpieces such as cybperunk.

I avoid open world bloat like valhalla or this one like a plague, and rather beat several shorter but content/story rich games in the same amount of time

@Fiendish-Beaver I totally get your skepticism and pessimism (not particularly on this thread but overall). What I don't understand is you seemingly still gonna main xbox and buy helix and keep going. How does it make sense?

From every convo or comments it seems like you are dedicated console fan and you will be more happy with PS. You already got the PRO and might just go with PS6 and call it a day.

This is a genuine question btw, not trying to poke here.

@Cakefish reportedly it was Sarah's vision. I think Spencer was all in for Game Pass and he wanted to acquire studious to pump up the content (excluvises as well) into the GP. There were also many talks of launching it everywhere. After GP struggled to get in the audience, they quietly shifted to Sarah "everything is an xbox" that flopped way harder.
So now they seemingly realizing they need to go "back to roots" but obviously they cant do a 180 now and PC push and multiplatform will be there anyways

I understand that MS is trying raise some positive PR and get everyone hyped about next gen and obviously these improvements are not solely the new management merit.

That said despite a lot of (deserved) skepticism, factually in just couple of weeks we received some clarity about next gen and bunch of solid updates across the board including the console and removal of the "everything is an xbox" campaign.

That's already an amazing feat and a step into the right direction, and after 2 years of doom & gloom (feb 2024 "just 4 games") its finally some positive traction.

@Fiendish-Beaver you have to also consider that non-PA games which roughly 90% of your library will be (presumably) played in a BC mode with series x, so no improvement.

Pa games sure - you will be able to tweak settings as those are PC versions

XboxStation 6

@Fiendish-Beaver despite the pessimism are you going to buy it?

I am thinking if its even worth the hassle and do I really need a PC under TV? I use rog ally as a PC that I hook to monitor to play mkb games like strategies. i dont really need it under TV.
For me the #1 reason is do I need play anywhere or not between rog ally and under TV device? If yes then I need PC under TV (whether steam machine, helix or any). If no - then certainly a ps6…

I think the PC way is right for them in today’s reality. Sure back when series was launched, things were different and it could work out. Since it did not, I dont think another tradional xbox console SX successor would do well. Regardless of exclusives, features and price point.

However with windows PC there are 2 super big roadblocks: user experience/stability and what xbox app will offer over steam.
Chances are it will be so-so experience and that steam would be the dominant app for games/devs anyways.
I think steam machine and PC on steamOS could start eating xbox Helix market share…

So far 3 months were weak imo. Again I am now judging gpu at a $30. Sure when forza 6, fable and orhers release - absolutely worth it. But for orher months i am not sure.

seems like premium + buy your day 1 games that you want is the way to go if you want a sub at all.

My prediction is gpu will be scrapped fully along with pc GP when Helix launches

@Exerion76 its stable 60 on high settings (thats auto-preset btw)

@space_g0blin honestly I was very critical when I got it 2 months ago. It felt like a awful/mediocre experience at best. I installed bazzite instead and it was a major improvement. But the core advantage of the device was lost - access to xbox account, play anywhere titles and game pass.

I decided to give it another shot and I think now experience seems to be more stable and new features arrive all the time - like the addition of xbox sounds was cool.
They seem to be moving pretty fast with the updates so now I am more confident in the way how Helix will work

@themightyant they “loved” switch 1 because its second best selling console of all time. Not sure same goes with steam deck. But my point is if device that sells 5-6M and gets solid support then Helix should be fine.

I think Ms understands its their last chance with it so might go hard.

Bottom line helix at it worst is a solid PC and PS6 is also another solid option.

@Cakefish @Gabrie I think second biggest challenge (first is UI/UX and stability of FSE) is not be devoured on PC by steam.
This is really high possibility.

They really need to stimulate devs and users to use xbox app if not over steam but along with steam.

The good news are if someone to buy helix - worst case you can just do it all in steam big picture or more radically wipe out windows and get steamOS that soon will be rolled out (likely sometime after steam machine).

@themightyant I am looking at steam deck with its 5-6M copies and that devs still optimize for it. I think they dont want to overlook the Helix that will sell same or more. But its crucial to not create a lot of headache for devs to launch of xbox app over steam.

We probably dont want to be in a sitaution where you launch Helix xbox mode just to switch to Steam big picture lol. But anyways it will be more powerfull than steam machine so kinda whatever.

I think they are addressing the problem that was with Series Gen - 3rd party skipping/delaying the platform. I know it was not THAT bad but still games like Wukong or dispatch were delayed.

Most importantly they need to stimulate devs and users to use xbox app (FSE, xbox mode) and not steam - this will be a real challenge

@Cakefish I think currently xbox app is pretty weak on windows.

I think it will be slightly more work for devs but you are increasing the reach towards people who play on windows PC (both handhelds and devices like Helix). And all this aimed to create an advantage for a user to buy via xbox app over steam (with graphical presets, optimization, PA and stuff) while not creating a lot of headache for a dev. Which is a correct thinking in my eyes.

My thinking is devs really care about steam deck that sold just 5-6M or so. I think Helix will sell same or more over time so it wont be ignored.

Overall I agree they need to find this balance so devs just dont be like "if you are on helix just go on steam" - this kinda defeats the purpose in my eyes.

@Balaam_ I kinda disagree here. most people play on 1 device anyways so PA doesnt hurt sales. If you play on both you might be de-motivated to buy 2 copies of the same game so PA removes this barrier and can actually increase sales.
And also seems like people now pay attention if a game is PA so it boosts its visibility too - again people who play on multiple devices

Thats exactly what I was saying for a while - steam and stuff wont magically appear on xbox OS that is on xbox series, it will be windows PC that loads into FSE and you can go to steam if you want.
They just seem to rename FSE into xbox mode (and good for them! full screen experience is an awful name).
Now for me personally, most important is how they can improve in 1.5-2.5 years time freame until Helix launch (nov 27 or nov 28 respectively).
I am mostly fine with Xbox Ally but its a clunky experience right now. My list has at least 20-30 things that needs to be completely redone.

My decision to buy this device will be dictated by how smooth this experience will be. I am even OK with higher price tag - I will save on subs like PS plus so over years its the same but have the PC freedom.
If it turns out to be the notorious faff and experience will be frustrating then no thanks.
For now I am cautiosly optimistic as I do believe its possible to improve on existing FSE

@Gemini53 yeah like RE8 is also but not Re4. weird.

The only thing about play anywhere - next gen after SX/PS5 slowly phade away, it will be pointless as all devices will be on PC so you have play anywhere by default. Same as if you buy PC version of the game via xbox app and play on your windows PC and rog ally

@BacklogBrad I think its literally the main feature right now for xbox ecosystem today. If you want to play on mutliple devices - you need xbox ss/sx and pc handheld such as ally.

GP is quietly being converted into "sub for bunch of older games".

I agree with you. Going PC is good long-term. I just hope they can deliver the UI/UX on windoes which is a big question mark for now. Ally is not that bad but clunky still. Definitelly you feel the difference between xbox FSE on windows and any console on the market.

@OldGamer999 Booty just said they are not going full publisher. And they are doing hardware at least 1 more gen with Helix.
But I agree its all gonna be PC but I am unsure at this point if its good or bad.
In my eyes another SX console would be doomed anyways, the whole PC thing is more flexible and can find its audience.

Objectively speaking Helix will have unique features over ps6 simply because of the whole PC thing while potential SX successor would not.

This is the best news so far and the reason why I now have more faith in xbox than in the past 2 years.
They still need to deliver a lot to prove us but its a good start

@Gemini53 I think most of the faff is in the past but still if I would give a complete newbie windows Pc out of the box (lets say a pre-built or laptop) and a PS5 - obviously it will be way easier to get into gaming from a PS5.

That said in my eyes steamOs if you play only optimized games is as good and stable as Sx/ps5/s2.

I think the “Helix” optimized and graphical presets are they way to go.

I just hope MS can get closer to steamOS and have concerns.
However I am mostly happy with how things are on my ally X - i feel like give it a year or two and it can be very smooth. Basically initial setup, quick resume, overall responsiveness and lock screen are on top of the list

@IOI playing on ally currently and its the proxy for next xbox essentially. Experience is clunky at times and not super stable but I would not say unbearable. But after initial setup you dont really deal with any updates. Bugs are less common now too as they release patches all the time.
Regarding the optimization - they have default profiles and “handheld optimized” similar to steam deck. I think if they go this way with Helix - it would resolve these concerns.

Initially I was critical of Ally, but spending more time with it and seinf how quickly they fix pronlems and add new stuff - I think in 2 years or so its very doable to have solid experience simular to steam os.

But i totally agree if you want absolutely 0 fuss your choice is PS5-PS6

@StylesT I dont understand what is the problem if PC version is always same with console but with graphical settings. Its more about optimization that is important - its the same already with PC games - some are buggy mess and some are optimized for weaker hardware

I think 2027 will be the release year. 6-12 months window will be enough for devs as they are anyways developing games for SX/SS and PC.
Windows FSE rollout in April so they have 1.5 years to go thru common issues.
I just dont expect any technical miracle during first years of helix/ps6. Just better graphics and ray tracing. “PRO” like improvements if you wish.

I dont know what yall want. “New gen” for 3 years or so is basically old gen that works better. Thats the norm since sx/ps5 launch abd honestly similar was xbox one/ps4.

No one will release a AAA systemseller available excsluively on the new hardware. Math is different know. Even Nintendo did not as mario kart was mixed reception and basically most copies are bundle. Bananza was amazing but not a systemseller

@Balaam_ what was ps5 and S2 “next gen” on a release? Only crossgen. Same here and likely same with ps6. Next gen only 3-5 years after launch.

@MondoBondo worms armageddon from 360/ps3 would be insane! I love reloaded on PC (that also will be available) but the console version was slightly different and I merely enjoyed it

Amazing news. A big W! They are really trying?

I am at the point of let xbox do their own thing and have a community around it. Even if niche.
For example There is a very positive community around steam deck and sure will be the same for steam machine.

I am in rog ally reddit and man people enjoy the device despite it shortcomings. This is the energy I am missing on these purexbox, push where its literally console wars all the time.

All this console war, sales and “but look at playstation” stuff needs to stop for good next gen as we will have everyone in their niche: PC, xbox Helix as a hybrid and steam machine, traditional console PS6, hybrid/portable S2.

Who are unhappy with xbox - there are other solid options in the market.
And I am saying it as I dont know for now whether I am the target audience for helix or not. But I think Ms at this point rather close the console chapter and I have a peace with it.

I was thinking about this and I agree.

they need to release beefy SX2 (sort of a PRO machine) at 700-800. This could create problem for devs again so I think the better solution is to have weaker Helix S at 700-800 price point. It will play all SX games and PC but on lower settings. Again no issues for devs as its a PC.

Like we do have rog ally and rog ally X.

They already have FSE and cloud dashboard. This is not happening.

@Fiendish-Beaver the earliest helix will launch in 1.5 years so might just enjoy the ps5 pro mate. As soon as you get helix ps5 pro will be secondary

@IOI what is the solution? I dont think releasing a 800 SX 2 with bunch of exclusives and udpated controller will make it suddently selling same as PS6.
I think this ship is long sailed so might as well try the PC hybrid. At its worst you will get a PC that is booting from a controller which aint that bad. and we wont have any problem with 3rd party support - PC supports surpasses any console

I think narrative will be SX as a low-end and continuous commitment. Probably price drop or a new revision (that is cheaper to make like ps3 super slim back in a day).
Series s probably will drop the parity feature. it should not drag next gen anymore.
xcloud as a super low end.
and Helix as a main next gen device

@Fiendish-Beaver PC games pass will be removed/merged with premium/ultimate/essential.
overall definitely another major revamp of GP tiers is coming

I think the most important thing is Helix needs to solve a very long list of rog xbox ally problems within UI/UX. And it must support natively our xbox libraries.
If they deliver all this on a decent level (somewhat close to steamOS would be amazing) - then we are looking at a device that is more expensive but have a lot of capabilities and unique in some form.

If they fail, Helix will be netiher as simple and "cheap" as a console neither as convenient and flexible as a regular PC - I think this is the worst case scenario.

Regarding sales, it would be niche device but I think surpassing steam machine which would be enough to keep going.

@Fiendish-Beaver I personally think they exhausted everything they could on a console market.

I think if they did everything that people want, they still would be 3st place and behind the competition. sure they wouldve sold more xboxes, maybe even slightly improve over xbox one. But it would be the same narrative and the only benefit I would see is that we wouldnt have to wait for black myth and dispatch.

Now as of today, traditional console like SX would fail and would sell below the SX/SS anyways...so maybe they can try with this weird xboxPC thing.

I have more certainty investing into a PC-like device as at a worst you will have access to steam and else, if you just stop using xbox app at all.
And we will be choosing between conceptually different devices next gen which is also interesting. Sure Helix will be more expensive but will have more capabilities and will be more powerfull. In my eyes its better than the current situation where SX perceived as something that is more expensive than ps5 but is "worse"

@Fiendish-Beaver to be fair parents wont be buying 800 pound PS6 either. The niche of an entry level console will be taken by S2.

Overall these times are gone and console players are in their 20s at a minimum.

Series S or ps5 base could be for Timmy today, next gen its prob gonna be a tablet unfortunately...

@IOI I am cautiously optimistic as its first time since feb 2024 I am hearing focus on console, 1st party and seemingly dropping the "xbox anywhere" strategy. but yeah who knows. obviously they need to hype things up.

I personally thought they will double down on "everything is an xbox" and did not expect any hardware tease at this point

@Fiendish-Beaver Most important above all is to bring back sense of a community and that you are doing things "your way".

I think Sarah's campaign "everything is an xbox" eroded brand the most as xbox stopped being something unique/separate and exactly as you are saying same as Capcom or Ubi. Seemingly they are dropping it now. "future is now" or whatever is the slogan and while it doesnt make sense its already better.

You need something to attract the player not repel him.

To see them TALKING about console, hardware, 1st party and stuff - thats already way better than everything from after ABK closure. Not gonna like I was really surpsied by all this - was pretty sure they are going to embrace "everything is an xbox" even further...

I want a clear vision (whatever it is), some form of exclusivity and focus on hardware. Also big changes are needed for GP.

@KITG_Group_BrunoB Helix wont be for casuals thats for sure