While I like this program, for me unfortunatelly it stopped having the same value. After almost a year with my rog xbox ally x, I made a decision to wipe out windows and switch to steamOS. I simply refuse to deal with windows anymore.

I will be very interested in helix handheld if it runs xbox OS or Helix OS and supports all my xbox series x games by default (maybe it will be able to launch them with xbox series s compatibility and I will take that too!).
Same applies to Helix desktop/console - if its a PC first then I am out, if its a console running all my series games plus some pc stuff - sure I am down.

And next gen due to less exclusives overall and higher price tags I will be making a choice between ps6 and helix. I dont want to own both anymore

@Fiendish-Beaver yeah e-day flopped hard. no other way to say it. I just hope they dont cut the studio because the game is really great

@Fiendish-Beaver @AI-Generation this is a big advantage of pc and devices like steam machine. Its might be less capable than ps5 pro and upcoming ps6/helix sure, but you dont need to wait for any patch. Games like batman or shadow of mordor, RDR 2 are playable at higher graphics and 4k60 which makes it look current gen. On consoles you have to wait for devs to patch which is never guaranteed.

I am hoping to hear more about the return of the fps boost program that was hinted recently for xbox, I feel like this is exactly where AI should be used - to automatically patch older games to 4k60. Pretty sure it can be fully automated and the job will be only to test that it doesnt break the game

@IllusiveMan yeah I really like what they are doing now but I am not sure financially they can get away especially with Satya breathing into her neck.
If Helix runs windows PC - hard pass. If its a console then we already know Helix wont sell good numbers so its an expensive and risky bet unless it has this announced devkit for PC to xbox to ensure 3rd party support - you dont want to pay 1800 and then see games skipping platform.
And the whole exclusivity - never say never. Today they are committed, tomorrow they are not. Same goes to Sony btw, who knows if they return to steam next gen.

@Weebleman dont want to defend her but from -10 to -2 is growth.
Overall agree with no solid plan so far. I dislike Sony but I know a 100% (even today prior to official announcement) what PS6 will do and that it will be properly supported. I dont need to guess which OS it will have, will they change a strategy or else. The only question is price and which exclusives are coming beyond announced GOW trilogy + laufey and Intergalactic.

E-day is not mentioned because it completely flopped: roughly 2M players played because of the GP, sales were 300k and i saw 700k for paid upgrades. So 1M of content sold out of which 70% was just upgrade. Game needs 4-5M of actual sales to breakeven or to bring substantial numbers of GP players (which I doubt happened).
I wonder if they will be cut becasue they are actually a solid studio and produced an amazing game

@cronogold 30fps on the PRO confirmed and no 60fps mode. 40fps mode is rumored though.
So likely the detail and shadows/RT will be better on the PRO or maybe it will have clearer picture.
It wont be night and day difference obviously.

@dskatter @IronCrow86 I basically have a dilemma whether to get it on the PS5 PRO or series X. I hope to see footage and comparisons across platforms before the release day

@AI-Generation @Fiendish-Beaver would be very surprised if its not creation engine. They have been working with it exclusively for decades and Todd advocates for it all the time

Hope Asha addresses this because this is just bad PR. All xbox games regardless of internal team association (blizzard, activision, bethesda or XGS) should be reviewed on xbox or PC first. They need to send xbox series X and xbox app on PC codes first going forward, followed by other platforms.

Its not the end of the world but xbox is always seens as some 3rd place "loser" and it starts to stick with people already. This perception needs to be changed.

I acutally wiped out windows and installed steamOS on my xbox rog ally X - very happy so far. Feels like I can breathe finally and enjoy the games instead of jumping thru the hoops with windows.
Absolutely awful experience if you come from a console background.

So far steamOS solved it all: play anywhere - 80K titles support cloud saves, fully unified library, free online, free remasters of all older games (you will be surprised how good batman arkham on extreme settings in 4k60 can look), massive backcompat library, xbox games, some PS games and so on. This is a big contender for next gen for me personally if Helix/PS6 flop

@Elbow I think next gen we are looking at 30-40% of Helixes sold of the total series s/x sold. PS6 maybe half if we are lucky.

I am sure in the first year there will be hype and all the enthusiasts and bloggers will buy everything but when in a year or two it will come to casuals they will just prefer to stay with PS5/Series or other ways to game (PC, cloud, phones).

@Fiendish-Beaver @somnambulance

MS really dropped the ball this gen. If you think about it launch was OK, not bad but no launch title banger. Then 2021 was good with forza 5 and halo infinite (actually it was the best MP shooter at that time becasue COD and BF flopped and it was F2P). We got expansions of fps boost and fixes of the Quick resume, more gaming getting "optimized for series s/x".

Then the weird limbo in 2022-2023 with barely any games, flops like redfall and waiting for ABK to close. Then 2024 was the "just 4 games" and it lasted all thru 2025. So basically in 6 years we had 2 good years at best.

@Fiendish-Beaver was pretty obvious there will be several AAA games, a bunch of AA and the rest 60 would be indies/early access.

I think its fine overall. Game selection is not a problem for GP, its the pricing and the whole day 1 treatment

I will buy day 1 just to see what the hype is about and what was acheived with 1B budget. And overall itringued to see improvements over the gta V that I did not like overall and was not impressed at that time.

i expect to play couple days and fall back to wow forever that I am starting on nov 4th and super hyped!

There is also ocarina of time that will follow right after gta or i fall off from wow.

I expect to be occupied with these 3 games until fable release in february

For me next gen, most likely I will be choosing xbox and steamOS PC (as I belive we will see compact prebuilts from Lenovo and others, similar to pc handhelds).

To go to xbox over steam, I need to have:
1) helix OS or xbox OS. On both portable and stationary helix. Not windows. This is non-negotiable
2) support for physical media - at least for xbox one/series. I dont have high hops for next gen to be physical.
3) improvements to older games: fps and resolution unlocks.
4) free online. Its time to end this BS.
5) all new games to be play anywhere by default.

Currently steam has all 4 checked except physical media.
What I currenty like about steam machine and steamOs is the proper “play anywhere” - steam cloud supports 80k games. Its not a typo. Play anywhere I believe 2-3k.
The only downside is couple of games are not in steam like alan wake 2. And the anti/cheat issue.

I personally leaning toward xbox due to achievements, existing library and discs. But they need to deliver, especially if we are talking 1500-1800

A truly amazing feature and now I am buying disc again, fist time since late ps3/early ps4 days.

I tend to buy newer releases on physical while buying digitally only on deep sales.

@Fiendish-Beaver no one will buy the console without exclusives. Its very unfortunate and I dont think its fair but this is the narrative among casuals who form easily 2/3 if not 80% of the total player base. Sure most play COD, fortnite and sport games but they prefer it on a console where they can also play blockbuster exclusive such as spider man.

release games everywhere and platform will die in first years of Helix. Subsidize the cost and make exclusives and you might save the platform.
They just cant expect these games to break even - thats it. But yeah since we are talking hundred million dollar budgets here even MS needs to look closely.
Its a tough spot and I am really 50-50 on whether its even possible for xbox to have even a slight come back at all or whether its a death spiral downwards

@AI-Generation I am not confident in neither GOWL nor intergalactic. Both can be upsets like wolverine. Both games already caused controversy online.
I am talking score and reception - obviously they will have huge sales.
Yes Sony earned the right to make mistakes. Xbox does not have it

@IllusiveMan what is the funniest - I am not a fanboy and has all platforms but man we are really choosing between the lesser evil. There was some time when I thought PS5 and Sony can solve all problems but they have a lot of issues this year. Late last year I though steam machine is the saviour...until we saw 1k price tag haha. and xbox sucked for near 4 years 2022-2025.

I would happilfy trade it off to PS or Nintendo or whoever but there is just not objectively "good" force this days

@IllusiveMan yeah its a lose-lose situation with GPU and day 1. I think day 1 will either have more cuts (more games skipping the service like COD or even change to "some" games coming while majority wont) or it will be that expensive premium add-on on the a la carte model taht will cost somthign whooping like 12-15 a month alone. so we will essentially go back to $30+ tag from last year.
I actually think despite the backlash - $30 made sense. It definitely more believable to be sustainable with such price tag and its still makes sense financially for fans/hardcore players. the rest would downgrade to GP premium where they dont lose that much money.

Ultimately, I am sure that GP will stay in some form as its now part of the identity. I also think (it was hinted by Ashsa) that financing is coming for Helix bundled with GPU - return of the all access program

@AI-Generation yeah but we are living now the end of "good" Sony era - they are basically late ps2/early ps3 vibes right now before humbled by xbox 360. There was not a single 9/10 game from them in 2 years since astrobot. And wolverine showed us new lows. Obviously they are a juggernaut and have a big fanbase so nothing bad will happen short-term.
The narrative of "sony exclusives" definitely shaken right now

@Fiendish-Beaver I remember you were saying 2026 release for xbox

@Fiendish-Beaver I think if Helix is a console running proper dedicated OS, at the bare minimum we will see 10-15M of current xbox players eventually upgrading to Helix.
Lets say 3-5 years passed and if you have been with series s/x it makes sense to upgrade to Helix than go with PS6.

But the biggest problem with Helix being a console is to secure 3rd party support. If sales are low (lets say 30-40% of series S/X) then we will see more situations like wukong and dispatch. Hopefully MS polishes this dev tool that allows easy port of PC games to xbox - this can be a game changer.
Basically, imaging if console sales dont matter and you get all the games? In such case even several millions is enough for MS to continue support as we see with Asus and likes - their devices dont have have 1M of sales but they keep prodiving updates and drivers support and such

@Fiendish-Beaver I think these estimates are more true than not and reflect the GTA hype and sony marketing rights. I do expect series consoles to get uptick in Nov-Feb or so purely on GTA hype. Whoever cant buy PS5 will go for xbox. And I think even series s will be sold out as the cheapest entry

@IllusiveMan I agree about the supply - I think if they would match the ps5 price and re-stock, they could for sure sell a lot of units.

But I would not go as far as "can the brand survive". We reached a point where near everything 3rd party launches on xbox same day as ps5. We do have impressive 1st party supply and even exclusives. GTA hype will bring several more millions of sales. I think xbox series can reach 40M by 2028 which is a mark that surely less than PS/N but not low enough to be ignored.

I think whoever has the xbox series today can sleep well for the next 5+ years.

What is also interesting is whether series s/x production would be lowered/scrapped for the HElix to step in or on the contrary series will look like a good deal when we see eye-watering Helix price tag. We are kind of in a position where no-one wants next gen, neither sony/ms with all the component crisis, nor players who have capable console today + another influx of 10-15M of GTA players coming in who definitely wont be buying another console next year. I think only people are fans/enthusiasts who are really the market for next-gen

@IllusiveMan @PsBoxSwitchOwner the thing is thats the definition of exclusives. Helldivers 2 did amazing on xbox, surely big sony/nintendo hits would do the same. You always leave money on the table to attract people long-term to your platform.
The problem with xbox is that its a loop of not having enough playerbase + GP day 1 on top. I dont think any game except TES6 (assuming it reaches Skyrim level hype) might really sell you an xbox, so all these exclusives are pretty much guaranteed to "fail". I put it in parenthesis because I still believe its necessary short-term loss for a long-term gains and from that lense its not a failure at all but necessary step

I think 500M excl marketing is WAY too aggressive. Surely they spent 7 years and that ballooned the cost but I dont think it costed more than Wolverine and the explanation makes sense if the cost includes support for other studios/teams.

However bad news is reportedly its sold just 300k (maybe more now) but anyways it will be a miracle if it reaches 1M. Even with conservaite estimates it needs to sell 3-4M to break-even so its a flop regardless and lets see what MS does with it.

P.S. I dont think leaving it on PS5 would make it break even regardless

@strzelec @strzelec since its essentially pc architecture, I think regardless of decisions of the past and progress made to-date, they can choose any OS they want to put on it: Windows, Helix or xbox OS that is on series consoles. They only need to polish the UI and adapt for a handheld - I believe 1 year will be enough for that.

@Grognard66 lets not fool ourselves and it wont reduce any layoffs. It is very unpopular move for employees who already worked remotely/less day in office and employers are getting away because its the employer market and people are forced to take things as is to stay afloat.
It was also proved that productivity did not fall, on the contrary during crunch times if you dont spend 2hrs on the commute you get more work done.

@PsBoxSwitchOwner @Weebleman the problem with layoffs and such mandates is that they create an unsafe and less convenient environment so they can lose talent or fail to attract new talent. If you cut all your studious - who will produce the games? I kind of really cuirious on the 2028 lineup and whether we will have a draught like 2022 when the only 1st party game was pentiment.
Everyone who says that productivity is higher in the office and that remote workers dont do anything at home are dumb and part of the problem. Or just salty because their job cant be done remotely so others should not as well.

Unfortunately its the employer market right now in NA and people will still line up for a job, especially with a big name like Microsoft...

this is stupid and will futher push away employees who want that flexibility. COVID showed a lot of jobs can be done fully remote or with just 1-2 days in the office. There is no boost in productivity in 3-5 days in office over 1-2 days - its just more expensive for employees and a waste of time that funnily enough can be spent working.
After COVID personally I would never go for more then 3 days in office

@EvenStephen7 its not off the table, its just low possibility because they are not many companies that understand gaming and also has access to such sums of money to invest. Big tech like apple, amazon and google are off the table (they all tried or already have their gaming division). Then you have PE/funds but they need to see potential for x3-x7 multiplier over next 5-10 years and I dont think its there.

Ultimately if someone would buy it, chances are they are going to nickle and dime even further. Highly doubt gamers will win from that

@Fiendish-Beaver honestly I know it caused backlash (and likely because it was very sudden) but the $30 tag made sense. You must pay the premium to access day 1 and it still make financial sense for fans/hardcore. I think they just shouldve went with smaller increase to 25 first and then slowly creep to 30.
Regarding the 6 month idea - right with introducitng price hike they could introduce the yearly sub - similar to PS/N that amounts to 25/m for example. This way you lock people for longer. I kind of never understand why I need to jump thru 5 hoops with 3rd party website codes stacking but cant push a button and sub for 12 months of GPU right in the store.

Another idea is to have some tokens accrue (3 months of uninterrupted sub = 1 token) that allow you to claim day 1 access - Ryan from IGN came up with that.

On top of that I think they should get rid off mumbo-jambo like ubi classic, ea play and such to lower cost to 19.99. I basically think they need to merge ultimate and premium rather than add more tiers and options...

@Weebleman they nerfed GP a little basically and these cloud tiers remind me of a stadia that failed miserably. Kinda dont see how this would be different. Thats the rare case where I actually want them to fail as this only-cloud future absolutely sucks

Honestly instead of separate cloud tiers, rumoured "a la carte" and other confusing stuff, it should be core, premium and ultimate reduced to 19.99 with any form of day 1 games cutting they can come up with (1st party, 3rd party, excsluvies only, token model, etc).

So its Pay-to-Pay-to-Play? No thanks

@trev666 by "PC" games no one confirmed steam, gog and others yet. This was the implication and hint back when Phil was there but Asha never mentioned that. There is a chance they port xbox pc app games into xbox OS (which is not that many and x100 less than steam has) so you can play pc-only games (like strategies) and use MKB and call it a day

@BacklogBrad any ability to hot swap windows and this front-end means its working on windows - actually this is already the way it works with xbox app (xbox mode) and it sucks.

it must work on its own OS, basically on the improved xbox OS

@Kaloudz 1500 sounds very realistic. 1800 might be pushing too far. I would be surprised to see 1.2-1.3k as this could be a PS6 price which is less powerful than Helix

Xbox OS > Windows anytime of the day. If you want windows you can buy any PC right now and "enjoy" the laggy and glitchy xbox mode.

@Gabrie @Sol4ris Even with all the (often deserved) hate to MS, there are just no other companies in the world that really understand the console business except Sony and Nintendo, but both cant afford such acquisition. We have also seen Google trying to get into gaming with poor results (who remembers Stadia?). I dont think PE companies/big funds would be willing to take a 100B risk on something as big and complicated as xbox and I am not sure who has the capacity to build a sustainable strategy for it going forward if not MS themselves

I think they need to understand that not only its not possible to merge windows and xbox experience, its also not needed. These are products for different audiences. Continue with xbox mode (xbox PC) efforts and push the console separately - thats it.

@Kaloudz I bet MS and Sony will start actively pushing financing for it. Its far from the xmas or impulsive buy territorty like it used to be. I rememebr just sitting with my ps4 and then saw xbox one X with a discount, packed and bought it same day from the local best buy. My friend bought the xbox one s digital for somth like 250 impulsively. These times are gone

I think the prospect of having sort of a handheld series S that works exactly as regular series S but in 1080p so your library is already there and everything just works - sounds amazing. I think they should go this way and keep PC separate. It also can cost close to S2. That would be a w

Helix will be 1500 USD

@Weebleman @IllusiveMan been lucky enough to snatch steam machine recently and love it. This showed me again and again that I dont want windows in any form. There was so much work done for the xbox rog ally (and I genuinely applaud them for that) but the "xbox mode" is a joke and its miles away of it should be. The bloat is not removed, everything is clunky and annoying. Thats fine for PC enthusiast folks but not for console gamers.

Fingers crossed that Asha understands that and pushes for an xbox OS or maybe a new OS (lets call it Helix OS) that is mostly like xbox OS but with couple of bells and whistles. If its a windows home or whatever, further improved xbox mode - its a big NO. I dont think they can reach the console experience if they start the work from the windows and try to strip things down. It has to be the other way around where only core and architecture is retained but OS is built from grown-up. Or you can just use xbox OS and make people happy

@AI-Generation @Fiendish-Beaver I agree that day 1 would be the premium and most expensive. The only way day 1 can be still sustained is if it becomes for "selected" games, that could be no exclusives or no 1st party or the other way around (no 3rd party) so service shrinks into UBI+.
Any way I can bet day 1 would be cut in some form or simply will be too expensive (which is what they tried already with $30 tag last year)

@Fiendish-Beaver yeah curious to see what else is cooking outside of SOD3 and fallout remake. Tes 6 is not coming anytime soon. The big 4 franchises all just released + fable coming in Feb. Halo is rebooted. Doom just released. All else were let go.

Anyways 2027 looks solid with Fable, clockwork, SOD3 + potentially fallout remake. But 2028 is a mystery for now

I think it will be mythic achievemnts, return of backpat compat and fps boost. And elite 3 probably.

I really wonder if they can utilize AI to auto-enchance older games by unlocking fps and boosting resolution to 4k - there are countless of xbox one games that are still locked to 1080/900p and 30fps - even 1st party like spyro or crash trilogy. This is territory where PC wins because i run those games on steam machine at 4k60

@wheresmywhisky i think its a great service that unfortunately did not become popular enough to be sustainable long-term for xbox.
I think anyone who uses it gets their money back easily. I dont recall a single time I did not extract at least x2 value of what I paid. With conversions from gold back in a day I did like x5 value or so (counting as if I were to buy those games i played via GP). Plus you can uncover some hidden gems too.