Talking Point: Will 'Project Helix' Be A Niche Device, Or An Xbox Console For The Masses?

Well going on current Xbox console sales and momentum and the total lack of PR and marketing.
Then absolutely no, I’m at 10 million worldwide at the most.
I mean I have had every Xbox console day one and the mid generation consoles.

Normally I can’t wait for a new console.
Where am I with the new Xbox thing, right now a definite no, will it change, maybe.
But it’s not a good starting point for the new thing.

On paper:
It appeals to both type of players:

PC players who want to keep the openness of the PC ecosystem while enjoying a console‑like experience,

and console players who want access to a much larger game library, knowing that 30–40% of games release exclusively on PC.

So there’s a very large potential player base.

• The remaining question is the price, which will be decisive. But what we can say is that a gaming PC costs more than a console, and yet it’s the only market that’s actually growing, along with cloud gaming.
• We still don’t know whether Xbox will offer a cheaper version, but we can be fairly sure that OEM versions will exist at lower prices.
• Marketing will also play a key role.
• And if they manage to launch exclusive games alongside the new console, that would be a huge purchase trigger. Imagine games like Gears E‑Day, Blade, Clockwork Revolution, etc., released exclusively on the next Xbox. If they do that, it will prove they fully understand what’s needed to revive the hardware. Temporary exclusives of two years for major franchises are enough — when you want to play a game, you’re not going to wait two years, or even a full year. PlayStation understands this very well. With every generation, they concentrate their exclusive games around the launch of their consoles, and after that there’s not much left

Playstation and nintendo will still sell way more units but xbox isn't worried about that and shouldn't be.

I dont know what the threshold is to declare something a niche product or smashing success but I think this product will sell okay and be somewhere between those two extremes. Probably less than the Series x/s numbers while also expanding their pc footprint with all 1st and 3rd party xbox games available in the pc app and numerous OEM devices carrying the xbox logo.

Based on what I heard and read until now, I think it will be an expensive, niche devices for those who are invested in the Xbox platform and want to take their library to PC. Microsoft will not be concerned about selling millions of devices, as long as millions of gamers play on Windows and buy their games.

I think the future of Xbox will be on PC. The question is, how Microsoft will sell the vision and how well it will work on launch?

Niche as cost alone will drive away the majority of casual gamers who went PS5 digital or Series S for a cheaper experience. If the leaked specs are even remotely close then I think we are talking $1500 for this device, possibly more, and that will not fly for the average family.

Amongst hardcare gamers we could all say we would spend that money but they reality is we are not the majority in this market, casuals are and they will determine the success.

I don't think this will bring in the casuals who play Fortnight or Roblox. Too expensive and parents aren't going to buy little Jimmy a console twice as costly (if it is that much) as the cheaper more causal experience PlayStation or Nintendo offer.

Like I said a few weeks ago. I think the higher ups know that the current format isn't working - and the best way to disguise a 180 is to remove current leadership and install a new one.

I personally think the next console is going to be pretty enticing, especially if they can get the price right. Hell, if rumours are to be believed, it's even scared Sony off wanting to release on PC (removing the ability for folks to play Sony / Xbox / PC on a single device).

I think Xbox Helix will play BC Xbox games (as well as current gen and next), and multiple PC storefronts (Windows, Steam, Epic ect...)

It's also important to take everything we've heard about next gen Xbox with a pinch of salt now, as the new leadership might change course - but that's something we will see in due course. I think they'll also want to get Helix out before the PS6.

As the article touches on it will ultimately all come down to price, not what it can do at the end of the day.

With rising fuel, food and energy costs continuing to rise, combined with personal debt spiralling out of control, a large percentage of people in the UK are struggling make ends meet.
Question is will the mass market consumer have room for another expensive gaming device?
Unless there is a significant change in people's fortune then I'm going to say no, they will not. This will very much be a niche product.

I believe even Sony's PS6 will struggle to find a large audience in the current climate.

I still don't see the benefit for Microsoft having other store fronts on Xbox cos I can't imagine Steam, Epic etc. will be giving them a cut of games sold there, they might get less of a cut on games they release if people go to another store for them. Great for the customer though.

Beyond niche. If Niche is a market demographic in and of itself, Project Helix will be the niche of niche.

Not a device for the masses, that's for sure.

So Series X is the last ever console from MS.

I mean, if a $299 Xbox didn’t appeal to the casual masses it’s hard to imagine a ~$1,299 Xbox will.

If they kept their games exclusive to Xbox/PC and kept pricing to max $799 I think this device could’ve had a chance to at least appeal to all of us 35M who already own an Xbox and perhaps more from both the console and PC enthusiasts, still not the masses, but that scenario seems borderline unrealistic at this point, the damage is done releasing every game on competing platforms down to the sacred exclusives from the brand, and the way MS is already squeezing Xbox with $650 consoles and $30 monthly subscription it’s hard to imagine this device (that can’t be subsidized) isn’t $1000+ in this economy, plus the software side on Windows 11 I dare say has never been worst and many of the PC people they’re trying to appeal are flocking to SteamOS and Linux.

Unless it runs Microsoft office and an internet browser so it’s an actual pc I don’t get it. This is way too much money.

I think they should have went lower priced. Can we get a series x to a series s price.

@IOI I have zero confidence in Xbox and I have owned every Xbox and the mid gen updates. Phil kept on saying they lost the generation and gen people bought their digital libraries on ps4. Now with gamepass no one has a current generation digital library. So why stay?

IMO describing it as premium already disqualifies it from being mass-market.

It's a shame that Microsoft is (seemingly) abandoning the X|S strategy after one generation. I'm of the opinion Microsoft could have sold significantly more Series S consoles if it was marketed as a "party" or"family" console, instead of as a "budget" console, and there was a bit more effort into bringing games with local multiplayer to Xbox. And given the ongoing RAM and general affordability crises, there is definitely an appetite for "light" Helix console.

I reckon it will be a niche device aimed exclusively at enthusiasts and that they'll keep games coming to Series X and Series S as well for more casual gamers who want a lower price tag. Nothing I've read suggests that, but that's my guess.

I see a lot of pessimism from some people, as usual on this site. Yet the Xbox Series X has sold over 35 million units, compared to 84 million for the PS5 — and that’s without a mid‑gen refresh. So beyond the usual dramatization, and considering the fact that Xbox releases all its games on PC day one, and some on other consoles as well, I actually think they’re doing well.

I believe there’s a real desire — from Xbox players and even from many PC players — for the next Xbox to surprise us in a good way. The next Xbox will offer a much larger game library (30–40% more games) than the current Series consoles, and even more than PlayStation consoles. It will offer many new possibilities, and if Asha Sharma adjusts the exclusivity strategy with a better balance and timed exclusives, that’s another set of differentiating factors and improvements over the current consoles — and even over the competition — that suggest the next Xbox has everything it needs to be a major success.

There are still many open questions: price, marketing, exclusives, etc. But if these conditions are met, it can only perform better than the current generation, which suffered from a lot of bad press regarding marketing, communication, and exclusivity strategy.

So if these points are corrected, logically, success should follow — and personally, I believe in it.

@fatpunkslim > "Imagine games like Gears E‑Day, Blade, Clockwork Revolution, etc., released exclusively on the next Xbox"

Xbox has long given up any hopes for potential first-party exclusives (ever since they started with day one PC releases). At this point, whatever they make will definitely come to Xbox Series X|S (for many more years) and every other non-Xbox PC that has the minimum specs, even if they pull back on PlayStation/Nintendo releases.

@Kaloudz > "if rumours are to be believed, it's even scared Sony off wanting to release on PC (removing the ability for folks to play Sony / Xbox / PC on a single device)."

If that were even remotely true, then Sony would delist its games from the stores just to ensure Xbox gamers cannot get their hands on the Sony IP. In reality, I believe this is simply a business case of how well their games were selling and what the lack of true exclusives meant for the future PlayStation console sales.

> "the new leadership might change course"
That is entirely unlikely. Console development takes multiple years, so whatever Xbox does this year or the next will likely have already been decided by the previous leadership and the commitments they made to different partners (e.g. AMD). The only difference they can make at this point is the marketing of the device. We will only see Asha Sharma's decisions taking effect by either the end of next year or the start of the year after.

@fraserG The question is poorly framed — niche device or mass‑market? Honestly, it will probably be somewhere in between. PlayStation still has a very strong aura, despite a disastrous generation in terms of first party games. For many people and casual gamers, it’s the default console, especially for those who don’t really follow gaming news. That’s why strong marketing will be essential to highlight the unique possibilities of the new console compared to the competition. They need to be disruptive in their communication and put Xbox players and the Xbox console at the center — basically the opposite of what Sarah Bond did.

@betterthings I'm obviously not talking about PC — they won’t go back on day‑one releases on PC, that wouldn’t make any sense. The new Xbox will already have enough differentiating factors, starting with native compatibility with all previous Xbox console games, as well as a true console experience. A PC player who mainly uses their machine for gaming could definitely be interested in the next Xbox — even more so if they want something simpler on the side.

People don’t always realize it, but the potential PC player base is ten times larger than the console market, and the next Xbox is a small revolution. It’s something completely new that has never been done before, so it’s hard to compare it to anything we currently know

This is as niche as device as can be. If you're a console owner who doesn't care about PC, you won't pay the rumored $1200+ price point for things you don't want or need.
There's no exclusive games.
It'll be running that horrible Windows 11 and bloated with AI.
The PS6 will likely cost half as much because it'll be subsidized.
My guess is this thing doesn't even sniff 10 million lifetime.

One thing nobody seems to consider, and i highly doubt it would happen to be clear, is what if the PS6 did the same thing. Then you can play everything on the market game wise. Like I say, I highly doubt it, but it would whip the rug out pretty quickly.

On topic though, this is gonna be a niche, high priced device for existing xbox gamers. It isnt going to pull away the PC crowd as their rig will likely already dwarf this in power. The bulk of PS gamers will stick where they are due to their existing libraries, so MS will charge a high premium that will earn from folks already in their eco system. No doubt it will be a great machine, its just not going to move numbers.

I take performance leading comments with a pinch of salt as there is always marketting spiel when these things are announced, simply because they cant say anything else.

The price will be the key here though. Bringing other storefronts in means that they wont be able to subsidise as much because software is where they pull that back. You wont make a bean if everyone uses steam or epic.

Interesting times though and im looking forward to see what comes of it.

I really think it will be popular console.

But....

That price is going drive it as niche product. And if rumor true third parties be able make less powered systems is MASSIVE turnoff to me. It's just carrying over all the issues and problems of Series S scenarios to next gen. That is another pattern of Microsoft loving to continue with unnecessary self inflicted wounds.

Just make one console. One console to rule then all. Like really. No joke. Stop making it so complicated.

@GuyinPA75 The fact that they’re planning to release several OEM versions is actually a very good thing. You can’t compare this to the Series S. Developers won’t have any development or porting issues, in the same way that PC games already release across tons of different configurations. In this kind of setup, it’s the game that adapts to the machine — developers don’t need to create specific versions or design games around the lowest‑end hardware.

You have to understand that we’re moving into a new paradigm. It’s not comparable to what you know today, and most of the limitations that exist when making different console versions simply won’t apply, because it will all be based on a homogeneous PC‑like infrastructure.

@GuyinPA75
I don't have any problem with MS and maybe its OEM partners shipping XB consoles of varying specs. I have always wanted a console that can rival the best gaming PCs. This has never been shipped by any of the console vendors. The consoles have typically been a balance of price and performance. I would love to see the vendors come out with a high end console that was all about best in class performance.

It'll be a niche product and I'm happily going to be in that niche

@Weebleman

It isnt going to pull away the PC crowd as their rig will likely already dwarf this in power

Speaking as one such individual yes, this system has little to no appeal to me and not just because of capability, (which won't touch my current rig), but also because it really won't offer anything I don't already have access to, or require for my gaming needs.
As I said to you the other day I have been enjoying my Series S as a "retro platform", (bought DOA Ultimate yesterday - excellent fighter), but had my friend not been looking to be rid if it before he moves abroad I likely would have not invested in one. Up until that point I was content to ignore this generation of consoles altogether.
I suspect I will happily ignore the next batch of consoles as well unless there's something unique that says draws me in.

Point being is the more consoles stop being like consoles the less interest I have in them.

However, I continue to be invested in the Xbox ecosystem, even on a limited scale as an addition to Steam and GoG. This is what interests me more than any new hardware from Microsoft.

@IOI @Fiendish-Beaver @OldGamer999 @Weebleman

This device will be niche like steam deck/steam machine but we dont call those failures. Steam deck sold only 4M but actively supported.
I think MS fully understands that this device wont be able to compete with PS6. The price alone will drive people away.
However, the good news are on the PC market the sales of hardware dont matter that much.

Helix will sell several millions worst cast which is enough for MS dev teams to keep supporting the device with updates and such. Ideally if they could work on the optimization for games but at worst it will work like any regular PC.

I am more interested to see how exactly xbox games (console) will be accessed on Helix and whether they still with xbox FSE on windows or go further with merging the OS. Of course the UI/UX is on top of the list too.
It needs to do things differently than any other PC

Sounds like an underpowered PC

@Coletrain exactly niche by itself is not bad automatically. I am less worried about potential sales or even price.
However, I need to know how it will be different from PC, will they be able to figure out "console" feel on this device and things like that.

@fatpunkslim I should start by saying I am honestly quite hopeful that this new Xbox would revolutionise PC gaming. But I believe you are viewing things from an overly optimistic lens.

The next Xbox has two potential audiences, Xbox players who have a large game libraries and will gladly pay more to be able to play their games on the next-gen device and PC players who wish to have a console-like experience.

However, I would argue both of these are actually niche audiences. For many casual gamers Xbox Series consoles were their Game Pass machines (also evident by studies which reveal most gamers purchase at most 1 game a year). The potential of them switching to PlayStation is at least the same, if not more, as them upgrading to the next Xbox. According to Steam surveys, 70% of the PC gamers have hardware specs lower than the Steam Machine, which itself is much less powerful and cheaper that what this next Xbox poses to be. This means the next Xbox will price out majority of the PC gaming market. Next, you also have to consider the fact that this next Xbox will have AMD technologies (for upscaling, anti-aliasing, path tracing, etc.) whereas majority of gamers overwhelmingly prefer Nvidia solutions, especially in the era where raw raster performance means nothing.

Again, I believe they can make a potentially incredible product here, but selling it will be even more harder than the Series consoles.

I am going to be devil advocate (and you know I criticize MS alot) but I think its too late for them to just release the standard console. It will never catch up to PS6 or S2. Its just not happening. You can return exclusives, lower GP price and such - sure you can probably sell more than series gen if you are lucky but hardly a win.

This is them trying to create a different device and compete in a niche with steam machine or pre-build mini-PC basically. And provide a bridge for console people who wanted to dip toes into PC.

For a console market I think they can maybe create a cheap version of SX and extend its life cycle. Similar to ps3 super slim that was super poor quality but price at 250 (remember ps3 started at 600). So cheap SC for like 399 might work too.

@fatpunkslim I admire your optimism but as usual you are blinkered.

I can’t see pc players downgrading to a lower power machine and I can’t see console gamers willing to shell out over £1000 as it inevitably will be. As a console gamer myself I just want decent performance and decent graphics at a reasonable price. I’m not interested in 300fps. I’m actually happy with 60 but the news coming out of team blue is the next console will do 4k @120 and that will be more than enough for me 💁

Steam alone has roughly 146,000 games on its store. Compare that to the roughly 14,000 on ps4/ps5 or 15,000 on switch 1/2 and there is a clear advantage to this xbox console in playable games.

@Millionski Just to be clear my man, I didnt call this a failure either.

@BacklogBrad a hell of a lot of that 146,000 is shovelware though let’s be honest. I had a steam deck and I found myself buying the same games off steam as I did on the PS5

It’s going to be niche. No ifs no buts.

The price takes casuals and families out of the market.

PC gamers most likely have a better set up (or in 18months time they will do when this releases)

Who is it actually going to be marketed at? Series consoles don’t sell at £3-600.

If you have a PC you already have access to everything, series owners? They can just keep those and stream. How much is GP going to be by then.

Now I’m not saying the console will be bad or anything, I think it will be very good. Just don’t understand the market in a time when everyone is squeezed for money and mad Ram prices (obviously Sony has these issues too)

@BacklogBrad those PC players already have access to all those games.

Unless there’s some massive incentive to switch, why would they?

@GamingGod the same can be said about the 15000 on switch and playstation.

@BacklogBrad The advantage is to a console player yes, but that doesn't mean they will necessarily upgrade. For example, if someone only wishes to spend $500 on a console and can only shell out $100-200 more due to rising prices, then they will never be able to even consider a $1000 Xbox.

@BacklogBrad

I dont know what the threshold is to declare something a niche product or smashing succe

Exactly. I'm going with The Bold Man paradox on this one 😁.

@Gemini53 Im keen to learn more about this. It will be interesting to see where it sits capability wise on the PC ladder.

The series S is perfect for that isnt it. I loved mine until it went the way of the dodo. As I said, with work travel, it was so great to have something I could throw in a bag and take to hotels with me with such ease.

@BacklogBrad oh yes I agree but I’ll bet there’s a lot less on Xbox ps and switch than steam. I’ve got experience of steam store and most of it was guff too me

@betterthings I understand what you’re saying, but in my view, they’re actually expanding the pool of potential buyers, not shrinking it — assuming the final price is reasonable, of course.

Regarding the AMD vs. Nvidia debate, I don’t think players are particularly attached to one or the other. What they want is the best price‑to‑performance ratio. If AMD delivers the same performance or even better — which is likely, since this will be a machine specialized for gaming, unlike a PC — then it doesn’t matter if AMD is behind it.

Your comparison with the Steam Deck doesn’t apply here. We’re talking about a handheld console running Linux with its own limitations, and it’s not even the same audience.

As for Game Pass, I actually agree with you. It’s a crucial factor for the future success of this console, and they really need to rethink how the subscription tiers are structured

@fatpunkslim Not disagree with your thought process on how things are moving. I'm not big fan of it at all. But not disagree.

But the moment they start selling graphics card anf rubbish like that. I'm out. Very out. Hard stop. Huge no.

The very reason I'm a console gamer is absolutely refuse to deal with any that upgrade garbage.

@fatpunkslim I genuinely think this thing will bomb badly. Just like if the steam box actually releases. I don’t see a mass market for these things. I may be wrong and be eating these words. We will see. But I truly believe the should be releasing another affordable console . The series consoles have shifted nearly 40 million that’s a decent number imo

@Millionski I'm hoping for the following:

1. A design similar to series X with good airflow where you can barely hear the fans

2. A way of auto-optimising settings for TV friendly frame rates (probably just 60 and 120 FPS) that don't have VRR support

That's it. The rest is just access to the (frankly embarrassing) amount of digital PC and Xbox games that I already own

@NeoRatt I get where you're coming from. But not want see that happen as greed will start having consoles getting graphics card upgrades and other upgrade crap.

I want buy a console. It plays all the games from that gen. Next gen. New console to play games. Repeat.

That's all I want. Why I play on console.

@GuyinPA75 big deal for me too mate. Console gaming is just so accessible and easy

@PsBoxSwitchOwner niche is bad for consoles: devs dont want to prioritize your platform => games are skipping or have poor optimization, fewer people online, less discs in stores. I agree here.

now how does it matter if a device is essentially a PC? it will have games if not in xbox app then on steam that will be integrated anyways. For example, rog ally does not need to sell in droves to be supported by Asus/MS and games wont ever be a problem if hardware can handle it.

Moneyhatting 3rd party games just got way more expensive for playstation. Paying to keep games off xbox will now require developers to skip xbox and all pc storefronts. That's a tall order for any publisher. Even in a timed capacity, that will sting.

@GamingGod did steam deck bomb then? sold 4M or so. However, I only hear positive things about it online and people are happy with it. its one of the most praised devices overall by consumer sentiment and at its price point...

seems like its not failure only if the device can outsell switch or PS

@Weebleman

It will be interesting to see where it sits capability wise on the PC ladder

I reckon somewhere between mid-to-high, probably leaning more towards mid.

@Millionski steamdeck was at 6million sales last year. With estimates that it’s around 8million now. Due to ram issues it’s out of stock.

By all accounts the Rog sold well first month then basically stopped since.

Depends on pricing but assuming it’s significantly more expensive than XSX then it’ll be very niche indeed. XSX has sold maybe ~15 million at best? So I predict <10 million for Helix realistically.

@BacklogBrad true, though it’s still a big concern of mine. If Nintendo can convince From Software to develop a Switch 2 exclusive then anything seems possible…

@betterthings If that were even remotely true, then Sony would delist its games from the stores just to ensure Xbox gamers cannot get their hands on the Sony IP. In reality, I believe this is simply a business case of how well their games were selling and what the lack of true exclusives meant for the future PlayStation console sales.

That could well be the case, but if the rumours are true, that doesn't necessarily mean that Sony would delist anything. I mean, countless players have already purchased their games on PC so they'd have access to play them however they see fit, on whatever device supports the storefront they purchased them from.

That is entirely unlikely. Console development takes multiple years, so whatever Xbox does this year or the next will likely have already been decided by the previous leadership and the commitments they made to different partners (e.g. AMD). The only difference they can make at this point is the marketing of the device. We will only see Asha Sharma's decisions taking effect by either the end of next year or the start of the year after.

Nope. You must be forgetting the very public (and very quick) turnaround that Microsoft performed at the dawn of Xbox One. Literally the same thing happened. MS dropped the ball, removed the current leadership, installed a new leadership, and corrected mistakes and altered course... I'm not talking about contractual obligations, I'm talking about a change of tactics and market strategy.

@Fiendish-Beaver I think you can finally relax on the idea of them abandoning hardware whatsoever. I think this news is good regardless. At least they are coming up with a new device.

I agree with this device being niche and not selling even close to series s/x. I dont agree with them stopping in 3 years or so. I think stock just will be limited and it will be distributed same as rog ally - every store has a small amount or so and then it gets restocked.
Asha is pushing actively for "roots and console" to pull it off in 3 years as you say

@PsBoxSwitchOwner still a niche device tho compared to major players. does not mean its bad -> that was my point.

It baffles me that everyone is still into console wars and console sales. For xbox this ship has long sailed.

I think its more important if Helix will be good and polished experience and how exactly will it play our xbox (non-PC, non play anywhere) games.

@Millionski well I never called series consoles a failure quite the opposite and they haven’t sold near what ps and switch have. But yeah I’d say steam deck bombed pretty much in terms of sales

Maybe there's another group I haven't seen mentioned like me... I have a Series X and an ageing potato PC. I keep looking at upgrading it but what with the crazy RAM/GPU prices it's no go for the next couple of years. If Helix is high enough spec I could replace both and would be willing to pay up to £1500.

Without a total 180 on their direction since 2023, it will be niche regardless of price.

@GuyinPA75
I do want consoles to ship complete and be identified to a generation. Hopefully MS does not allow that level of customization to call something an XB.

@Millionski I agree, I imagine the box itself will be good. But who is it catering for?

Obviously there’s more chance of us that frequent these sites but outside of that?

I just find is annoying that they don't seem to be bothered about XSX it just feels forgotten at this point and they just want to keep it going just to bring in what it can

There is no way the new console will be cheaper than an rog xbox ally x($1000+). I dont see pc players forgoing upgrading their rigs for this. I dont see people who have a limited budget paying an exorbitant price for this. This is definitely falling into the diehard fanboys with disposable income territory.

I’m 100% sure that it’s gonna be even more niche than Xbox Series and that it’s perfectly fine for Microsoft who is going to focus on multiplat anyway.