This is a pretty terrible list it has to be said, may as well just add Burnout Paradise and all the Need for Speeds
Love it or hate it Gran Turismo is fairly unique IMO, in its overall style, presentation, gameplay, events etc. Obviously Forza Motorsport is the closest thing.
I have to be honest, GT7 is the first Gran Turismo that I love the look of since the ground breaking original Gran Turismo. Looks like the spiritual successor.
I just hope it has good handling and physics, and not the horrific understeer that crippled the gameplay of most of the later games.
Just out of principle I couldn't bring myself to buy one at the current price. If they reduce close to half the price, or an adapter is released that allows off the shelf SSDs then sure.
I mean, they're over twice the price of a good WD NVME, it's absurd. As much as I like the SeriesX and GamePass, they are taking the piss with the storage.
Luckily storage has been surprisingly OK on my SeriesX, with the help of a 1tb USB drive. I have loads of older games and 360 games stored on the external drive, and the internal drive still has a good 250gb left for new games. Seems fine.
A Compute Unit is just a cluster of individual cores (which are essentially an FPU). NVIDIA just happen to give cores rather than CUs, as it's a bigger number.
Even though as you say different generation architectures will be able to do more per core per cycle (just like generations of CPUs), all I'm saying is cores/CUs are the heart of a GPU and are responsible for all the number crunching per vertex and per pixel.
Which is why despite the clear law of diminishing returns (even in identical architecture such as 3070 vs 3090) the 3090 still beats everything thanks to its massive core count.
But yeah I guess it's true the 3090 is a good example of how you can't expect TFLOPS to tell the whole story with performance, it seems the higher you go the more the law of diminishing returns applies. On paper, the 3090 should be almost twice as fast as the 3070, but in reality it's what, about 33% faster at 4k?
If anything it makes it surprising that in some games like Control and Hitman 3, the SeriesX does seem to come close to the 20% TFLOP advantage it has.
@Moto5 Yeah cores do have diminishing returns, but at the same time they are the core horsepower of a card, and don't need to be specifically programmed for like CPU cores do.
The 3090 is a prime example - it has a slower core clock than both the SeriesX and PS5, yet its mammoth 10000 cores lead it to be somewhere close to twice as fast as both of them
@Savage_Joe Yes it is interesting quite what a huge advantage iOS has over Android, despite fewer cores etc. I mean now Apple CPUs do have 6 cores and generally higher clockspeeds, but still, on paper they shouldn't have this massive advantage.
By system architecture I thought you meant hardware, but in this case you're more talking about kernel efficiency, in which case yeah the iOS kernel is clearly much faster than Android.
So yes it is possible the PS5 has a more efficient kernel, but that would affect CPU performance more than anything - so primarily games that are very physics or draw call heavy, or even streaming assets.
Which might be the case I guess, leading to slightly more consistent performance in some games, yet in some games that come down to GPU power like Control and Hitman 3, the SeriesX comes close to the advantage it has on paper.
@Moto5 CPU I agree, none of these games are going to be pushing their very good CPUs to their limit, especially at 60fps.
Memory bandwidth on the other hand? It should be significant. Take the 2080ti for example, it's still a beast, able to match or often exceed the performance of the 3070, despite the 3070 having a whopping 50% TFLOP advantage. I think this is in large part due to the 2080ti's own big VRAM bandwidth advantage, almost 40%.
Regarding clockspeed and the XSX having unique hardware, not sure there's any truth to that tbh. I mean, the processing power of GPUs is simply cores * clockspeed * 2. So the SeriesX more than makes up for the clockspeed differential by having way more cores. And it's not like developers need to specifically program for extra cores, like with CPUs. Graphics APIs do that.
For example, my 3070 actually has a slower clock speed than one of my older GPUs, the 1660 Super, yet is obviously much, much faster, due to having literally 4 times as any cores. And clearly older games benefit from those extra cores, it's not just newer games that specifically take advantage of the newer hardware.
That's why it's so surprising the PS5 does often have the edge, I wonder if it's API related or?
@Savage_Joe Well, we know for a fact the SeriesX has a faster memory bus/bandwidth, and a faster CPU. So what are the advantages you think the PS5 has? As far as I see it, it's a GPU clockspeed advantage, and that's really it. Which obviously wouldn't come close to overriding the huge core advantage, plus memory bandwidth, CPU etc.
That's why it's strange, and can maybe be explained by a more efficient API, or some optimisations that for some reason benefit the PS5 more than XSX.
I know all things being equal in Control for example, the SeriesX had about a 20% advantage, so tallying exactly with the on paper specs.
@Savage_Joe The SeriesX is no more "PC parts just bundled together" than the PS5.
In fact the SeriesX and PS5 are very, very similar architecture wise. Both have an AMD CPU resembling a Ryzen 7 3700x, and both have an AMD RDNA2 GPU - with the key difference being the SeriesX having 45% more cores, and the PS5 having a clockspeed advantage.
Similar architecture, yet the SeriesX has a solid 20% TFLOP advantage, and not only that, but a 25% memory bandwidth advantage. Definitely makes it strange that the PS5 ever does perform better, tbh, unless they have clearly different settings/resolution for a given game.
@Spaceman-Spiff I think that's recency bias at play, as several notable recent games run better on PS5 - like Cyberpunk 1.5 and Elden Ring.
The truth is in one of the 1 yeaer retrospective videos, they found the SeriesX on average had about a 15% advantage over the PS5, ie close to its 20% on paper advantage.
As for Elden Ring and Cyberpunk? I can't explain that. I would have thought it was as simple as the SeriesX having higher resolution targets to take advantage of the extra horsepower, but that doesn't appear to be the case. It must be API related, as the architecture is similar enough that you'd think optimisations would work both ways.
Admittedly the handling does look absurdly arcadey and NFS esque though, which is unsurprising as it's now under EA.
It's a shame because I'm a big fan of the original GRID, and imo it's the original "simcade" racer. It was really great for its day and still holds up pretty well now. Codemasters' rally games have always been amazing too.
But I feel like their games are starting to lag behind the competition a bit now tbh, their visuals and physics now seem several levels below Forza Horizon for example.
@Banjo- Interesting, first I heard about the 9.2 TFLOP figure too. Where did you read that?
It does surprise me whenever the PS5 does have the edge in a game, because on paper the hardware difference is fairly significant in favour of the Series X. Not only does it have a solid 20% TFLOP advantage (or 32% if your figure is correct) but it also has a 25% VRAM bandwidth advantage too. I mean, it's not like it trounces the PS5 but those are solid numbers, like going up a tier in the GPU world (say from a 2070 super to 2080 super).
Also, we're not in the 360/PS3 era where they had vastly different architectures - the hardware is nigh on identical, and surely the APIs are too. So it is weird when you see some recent games favour the PS5, not sure if it's as simple as more ambitious resolution targets on the SeriesX or something more random.
I agree it'll be interesting to see what happens when the generation in in full swing. It's no surprise the PS5's best looking game is a PS5 exclusive rather than cross gen.
What would you say is the best looking SeriesX game? I still think FH4 and 5 are unmatched, running at 4k60 both look superb. Flight Sim is good too.
@StylesT Digital Foundry - on one of their 1 year retrospective type videos - tallied up the Xbox Vs PS5 performance differential so far and the SeriesX did come out ahead by about 15% as I recall, so fairly close to the 20% advantage it has on paper. And there was a recent game where the SeriesX trounced the PS5 handily, I think that Tales game.
It's just there's been several notable titles that for some reason the PS5 has had an advantage in recently, namely Cyberpunk 1.5 and Elden Ring.
@Titntin Thanks for the info, indeed I had no idea the materials etc would be different, and even the triggers.
Interestingly you did list 2 of my gripes with the pad - the nasty stippled plastic, and the sticky triggers, with the third being the pretty loose analog sticks. So pretty good that 2 of them are better.
@Banjo- agreed, I was in a bit of a rush reading and replying, I glossed over the engineer part
That is very interesting, I would have thought there would be a bigger performance differential between them, but maybe it's more about featureset than performance.
@Dezzy70 Actually no I have not tried, I've seen it though and like the design of the d-pad. £150 though, oof
I do like the sound of adjustable tension analog sticks though. That's one of the things that surprised me actually, the sticks on the SeriesX controller feel quite loose and wallowy, kind of how DualShocks used to feel.
I love the higher firmness of the 360 sticks, they feel much nicer and more accurate.
@Titntin I love my SeriesX - it's overall much better than I expected, and made me love console gaming again.
Apart from the controller That's the one thing that did not meet my expectations at all, especially given the fairly lofty public opinion of it. I also think it feels quite cheap and plasticky, just not very nice to hold or use. I was genuinely surprised it's so well liked.
The 360 controller feels weightier and better made and more comfortable. I still think the 360 controller is the best all round controller, and is my preference for PC gaming. It would be perfect if it had a better d-pad and 6 face buttons. It has better battery life too.
About the Forza controller - how is it better exactly? To me it looks identical to the standard one, just colourful.
Might be time to try another FromSoftware game, as usually they are not my cup of tea.
This does look spectacular though, no doubt.
As an aside, the odd instance where the PS5 performs better (Elden Ring and Cyberpunk 1.5 as 2 recent examples) surprises me. The consoles have such similar architecture, yet the Series X is about 20% more powerful. Only thing I can think of is developers try to make use of that 20% with higher dynamic resolution targets or higher settings, and push things slightly too far, leading to less consistent performance.
Might have to get this one on PC for perfect performance.
@Medic_Alert I hate to be a negative nancy, but I completely agree.
I was taken aback by the staggering amount Microsoft paid for Activision, because they're not a developer that's ever been on my radar at all really. I mean, looking at the list - objectively there are some very big games, but most of them don't appeal to me at all, so just from my own perspective it seemed absolutely nuts they are worth that much. Even objectively, only Call of Duty seems like the only real big hitter now.
Do you think they overpaid? I wonder at what point this deal will be profitable for Microsoft. I thought it was probably just to make COD exclusive, but they seem to suggest it will be multiplatform.
@Medic_Alert Sounds about right. I have actually had around 6 games in quick launch, which is very impressive, but that did include a couple of 360 games.
@k3lt0n I have a 1tb USB drive full of older games and it works on every game I've tried from there. There's usually at least one Xbox One or 360 game on my Quick Resume list.
That's something that again I was amazed by, I did only expect it to work on Series X games, as I thought it perhaps had to have some developer input too. But no, it seems it really does just copy the game state from RAM to the SSD and load it. Works brilliantly.
PS - any idea how much space is reserved for quick resume on the internal SSD? 50gb maybe? Well worth it tbh, the size of one game, for a really fast next gen experience.
It's incredible, and tbh one of the most impressive things about the SeriesX. Despite having a gaming laptop more powerful than the SeriesX, Quick Resume is the main reason I would choose to play on the SeriesX rather than my PC.
The game would have to look significantly better (FH5) or run at 60 (Microsoft Flight Sim) for me to choose PC over SeriesX.
And that's mainly due to quick resume and how quick and easy everything is on the SeriesX.
Note - I only play single player games which is maybe why I've had a better experience than most. But it really has worked on basically every single game I've tried it on.
@Grumblevolcano I stand corrected, I just watched DigitalFoundry's analysis.
I'm right that it's using mostly Ultra settings at 4k60, but indeed there are some notable omissions like SSAO and driver animations running at 30fps.
It's odd because for the extremely small amount of animation there is, there's simply not reason at all why they shouldn't run at 60, on a machine the calibre of SeriesX. Absolutely bizarre. On modern GPUs and CPUs animation is not that expensive, especially considering it's literally one character.
Same with SSAO, on a 12 TFLOP GPU it shouldn't be too expensive at all, on reasonable settings. Shouldn't put a dent in the frametime tbh.
Night shadows obviously cost more, but that's actually one setting I don't care about, they look very odd actually, and kind of standout in a bad way.
But this version should absolutely have SSAO and 60fps animation, and neither one would put a dent in the framerate. FH4 is very, very well optimised. Runs at 4k120 on my laptop, and my laptop is nowhere near twice the power of a SeriesX.
Still, it does look stunning, and I really can't imagine anyone wanting to play at 30fps just for SSAO
@Grumblevolcano do you have any examples of areas that are better on the OneX? To my eyes, the SeriesX version is basically maxed out at 4k60. It appears to be on ultra settings, and running at a rock solid 4k60.
IE it doesn't need a mode switch, as it's essentially quality mode but at twice the framerate.
I really, really hope SF6 comes to Xbox this time.
I also hope it's much better than SF5.
SF4 was my game of the generation, I had it on the 360 and played it more than any other game that gen by far. So good, and so addictive. I think USF4 is the best fighting game ever made.
SF5? Not so much, I tried, but could never really get into it. Didn't have the same spark and flow and excitement of SF4. Felt clunky in comparison, and like something was missing. It felt less like Street Fighter. Very boring to watch too, SF4 is great to watch, especially 2 elite players going at it.
I'll play SF6 either way, on my PC if I have to, but for convenience sake I hope it comes to Xbox.
@Grumblevolcano How is the previous gen version of FH4 better? It's 30fps, with lower settings, and lower resolution. The XSX version is leagues ahead, it's not even close actually.
Tbh Forza Horizon 4 is one of the games I found to be astonishingly good on the Series X, it runs at a rock solid 4k60 and looks incredible with blazing fast loading times and quick resume.
@Terrin OK. I had a quick go of Yakuza and Dirt5 out of curiosity, and to my surprise the touch controls worked far better than expected.
Would I actually play the whole game like that? No. I have an 8BitDo SN30 pro plus one of their excellent mobile clips (the adjustable one). But I can see the appeal of touch controls, for sheer convenience and those without controls.
Though it varies and is sometimes a bit glitchy etc, Cloud play really is so much better than I expected. Astonishingly good really, even the input response is far better than expected.
I do wish XSX games would give more options. This game should have a RT performance mode, 60fps and dynamic 1440p, for those that care more about performance and eye candy than resolution.
I also wish Flight Simulator had a 1080p60 option.
It is probably my favourite feature too, and what has made me love console gaming again. Just like you said, it's like going back to the golden era of console gaming - no faf, no fuss, no endless loading screens and annoying intros, just pick up and play.
It's worked flawlessly for me with almost every single game I've tried it on, 360, XBone, and Series X games.
I have a beastly gaming laptop that is even more powerful than the Series X (runs FH4 at 4k120 ), but it is actually quick resume that makes the Series X hard to beat. The sheer convenience and pick up and play factor is classic console gaming. I love being able to instantly switch between some of my favourite games like Forza Horizon 4, Yakuza, Fight Night/UFC etc.
My laptop being able to run Flight Simulator at 60+ fps is a nice perk though, and that level of customisation and scalability is why PC gaming will always have a place alongside console gaming.
I played Control for the first time recently and though I wanted to like it, I have to admit I was kind of shocked at how highly rated and regarded it is, and that it's a pretty big game.
I found it very underwhelming and tedious, with some fairly atrocious writing and voice acting etc too.
I skipped that entire generation, even being an avid console gamer.
The 360 was amazing when it came out, but when the PS4 and Xbone launched, I remember thinking "wtf, these aren't even as good as my fairly normal PC". Very underwhelming, and at no point did I feel compelled to buy either. It kind of forced me to be a PC gamer that generation, as it was simply better, and I could play most of the same games at 60fps etc.
This time it's completely different. The Series X is incredible, and has made me love console gaming again. The retroactive enhancements, FPS boost, quick resume and sheer horsepower are all game changers, as well as Game Pass. I now much prefer the Series X to PC gaming.
@Handy_Man agreed, they are simply some of the best games I've ever played, and it's such a shame to see them go. I liked the idea of more people experiencing them through GamePass, if they wouldn't ordinarily try them.
As a huge Shenmue fan, they are kind of like the more action packed and gritty spiritual successor.
@NEStalgia I agree with everything you just said. Tbh the focus on high framerates and even the retroactive FPS boost is the main reason I'm over the moon with my Series X, it's made me love console gaming again, after skipping the entire PS4 generation.
You know as I said earlier in this thread, I do find 30fps a bit of an eyesore plain and simple, and sometimes headache inducing, ie with big steps between frames, fast movement or panning, with no motion blur. I find it just about tolerable if it's a locked 30fps with motion blur to smooth the judder, and I also find a small handheld makes the judder less pronounced, but overall the difference between 30 and 60 is night and day.
I very much agree with you about the "feel". Even if 30 didn't hurt my eyes or give me headaches, 60 just feels so much better, more fluid and lifelike. I think if there was one word to decribe 60 over 30 it would be "engaging".
A locked 60fps simply makes me feel more part of the action, and makes the game FAR more immersive than 30 ever could.
@BlueOcean NL is a funny one, I actually discovered NL before here, and I have noticed there's a decent amount of hostility and bickering there, ie more than here, which surprises me. I thought the Nintendo crowd would be more friendly and easy going, but I guess that's just the internet in general
Oh and regarding OLEDs, agreed, all the things you listed are what I imagine I'll notice the most for sure. The 4k will be good obviously, but I am actually less resolution obsessed than most, so I'm looking forward to the perfect black levels and low input lag more than anything, plus VRR and HDR.
Having said all that, given how much I appreciate 60fps, I am very much looking forward to trying 120fps for myself, just to see if there is any significant difference, if it's perceivably better.
On that note @BlueOcean @themightyant @NEStalgia - is there a 120hz title in particular that seems like a good showcase, that you noticed more than others?
Interesting to hear opinions on 120fps. I still have a 1080p60 plasma, so I haven't experienced 120, even though I'll be getting an OLED soon.
But yeah it's pretty much as I thought. Even though I find 30fps very hard to tolerate now - a headache inducing eyesore - and is a big reason why I was mainly a PC gamer throughout the PS4/XboxOne gen, I had a feeling that the difference between 60 and 120 would be much, much less.
At 30 there is such obvious judder and ghosting, and in contrast 60 looks almost perfectly smooth, like, how it be much smoother? Especially a very locked 60. So naturally it's a law of diminishing returns, it doesn't seem possible for something to be THAT much smoother than a locked 60. It's why I was shocked there are even 240hz+ displays now. I mean is that just for competitive gaming? To have 1ms faster inputs
Incidentally I am very surprised at some of the negativity/hostility directed towards Digital Foundry.
DF are awesome, and the thing is, it's literally their job to go through these games with a technical fine toothed comb. Does it require zooming in, slowing down at times, and pointing out flaws most people wouldn't notice? Of course, but again it's their job and they do it well, you can't blame them for being very thorough.
It's excellent, and as stated the very open and generous progression system is the same as before really.
However I must admit I don't find it as compelling to play as 4, or as addictive.
Playground Games struck gold with 4 imo, I think there's a reason FH4 elevated the series to a new level of popularity. It has a certain charm and level of immersion I find kind of lacking in FH5 tbh.
FH5 is probably still the second best game in the series, I just think FH4 is extra special.
Even though objectively there are consoles with an overall better, more solid library of games, the Dreamcast is still probably my favourite console ever. Certainly the one I have the most fond memories of, along with the N64.
As a teenager I remember being astounded by suddenly having arcade perfect games in my bedroom. DC games looked amazing with the VGA adapter, and still do tbh.
It probably helps that Shenmue is my favourite game ever
Even though it was quite flawed, I was blown away by Sonic Adventure too, and really enjoyed playing it at the time. It was a great launch title.
As someone else said above, it seemed like a massive step up from the PS1 and N64, arguably more than any other generation since.
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Re: Eight Great Alternatives To Gran Turismo 7 On Xbox Game Pass
This is a pretty terrible list it has to be said, may as well just add Burnout Paradise and all the Need for Speeds
Love it or hate it Gran Turismo is fairly unique IMO, in its overall style, presentation, gameplay, events etc. Obviously Forza Motorsport is the closest thing.
I have to be honest, GT7 is the first Gran Turismo that I love the look of since the ground breaking original Gran Turismo. Looks like the spiritual successor.
I just hope it has good handling and physics, and not the horrific understeer that crippled the gameplay of most of the later games.
Re: Talking Point: Have You Bought An Xbox Series X|S Expansion Card Yet?
Just out of principle I couldn't bring myself to buy one at the current price. If they reduce close to half the price, or an adapter is released that allows off the shelf SSDs then sure.
I mean, they're over twice the price of a good WD NVME, it's absurd. As much as I like the SeriesX and GamePass, they are taking the piss with the storage.
Luckily storage has been surprisingly OK on my SeriesX, with the help of a 1tb USB drive. I have loads of older games and 360 games stored on the external drive, and the internal drive still has a good 250gb left for new games. Seems fine.
Re: Digital Foundry's Elden Ring Verdict Shows How Important VRR Is On Xbox
I'm not confusing them
A Compute Unit is just a cluster of individual cores (which are essentially an FPU). NVIDIA just happen to give cores rather than CUs, as it's a bigger number.
Even though as you say different generation architectures will be able to do more per core per cycle (just like generations of CPUs), all I'm saying is cores/CUs are the heart of a GPU and are responsible for all the number crunching per vertex and per pixel.
Which is why despite the clear law of diminishing returns (even in identical architecture such as 3070 vs 3090) the 3090 still beats everything thanks to its massive core count.
But yeah I guess it's true the 3090 is a good example of how you can't expect TFLOPS to tell the whole story with performance, it seems the higher you go the more the law of diminishing returns applies. On paper, the 3090 should be almost twice as fast as the 3070, but in reality it's what, about 33% faster at 4k?
If anything it makes it surprising that in some games like Control and Hitman 3, the SeriesX does seem to come close to the 20% TFLOP advantage it has.
Re: Digital Foundry's Elden Ring Verdict Shows How Important VRR Is On Xbox
@Moto5 Yeah cores do have diminishing returns, but at the same time they are the core horsepower of a card, and don't need to be specifically programmed for like CPU cores do.
The 3090 is a prime example - it has a slower core clock than both the SeriesX and PS5, yet its mammoth 10000 cores lead it to be somewhere close to twice as fast as both of them
Re: Digital Foundry's Elden Ring Verdict Shows How Important VRR Is On Xbox
@Savage_Joe Yes it is interesting quite what a huge advantage iOS has over Android, despite fewer cores etc. I mean now Apple CPUs do have 6 cores and generally higher clockspeeds, but still, on paper they shouldn't have this massive advantage.
By system architecture I thought you meant hardware, but in this case you're more talking about kernel efficiency, in which case yeah the iOS kernel is clearly much faster than Android.
So yes it is possible the PS5 has a more efficient kernel, but that would affect CPU performance more than anything - so primarily games that are very physics or draw call heavy, or even streaming assets.
Which might be the case I guess, leading to slightly more consistent performance in some games, yet in some games that come down to GPU power like Control and Hitman 3, the SeriesX comes close to the advantage it has on paper.
Re: Digital Foundry's Elden Ring Verdict Shows How Important VRR Is On Xbox
@Moto5 CPU I agree, none of these games are going to be pushing their very good CPUs to their limit, especially at 60fps.
Memory bandwidth on the other hand? It should be significant. Take the 2080ti for example, it's still a beast, able to match or often exceed the performance of the 3070, despite the 3070 having a whopping 50% TFLOP advantage. I think this is in large part due to the 2080ti's own big VRAM bandwidth advantage, almost 40%.
Regarding clockspeed and the XSX having unique hardware, not sure there's any truth to that tbh. I mean, the processing power of GPUs is simply cores * clockspeed * 2. So the SeriesX more than makes up for the clockspeed differential by having way more cores. And it's not like developers need to specifically program for extra cores, like with CPUs. Graphics APIs do that.
For example, my 3070 actually has a slower clock speed than one of my older GPUs, the 1660 Super, yet is obviously much, much faster, due to having literally 4 times as any cores. And clearly older games benefit from those extra cores, it's not just newer games that specifically take advantage of the newer hardware.
That's why it's so surprising the PS5 does often have the edge, I wonder if it's API related or?
Re: Digital Foundry's Elden Ring Verdict Shows How Important VRR Is On Xbox
@Savage_Joe Well, we know for a fact the SeriesX has a faster memory bus/bandwidth, and a faster CPU. So what are the advantages you think the PS5 has? As far as I see it, it's a GPU clockspeed advantage, and that's really it. Which obviously wouldn't come close to overriding the huge core advantage, plus memory bandwidth, CPU etc.
That's why it's strange, and can maybe be explained by a more efficient API, or some optimisations that for some reason benefit the PS5 more than XSX.
I know all things being equal in Control for example, the SeriesX had about a 20% advantage, so tallying exactly with the on paper specs.
Re: Digital Foundry's Elden Ring Verdict Shows How Important VRR Is On Xbox
@Moto5 I'll try and find the video, I'm pretty sure it be, and that I didn't imagine it
Another recent one where the SeriesX had a big lead was um, the Tales game maybe?
Re: Digital Foundry's Elden Ring Verdict Shows How Important VRR Is On Xbox
@Savage_Joe The SeriesX is no more "PC parts just bundled together" than the PS5.
In fact the SeriesX and PS5 are very, very similar architecture wise. Both have an AMD CPU resembling a Ryzen 7 3700x, and both have an AMD RDNA2 GPU - with the key difference being the SeriesX having 45% more cores, and the PS5 having a clockspeed advantage.
Similar architecture, yet the SeriesX has a solid 20% TFLOP advantage, and not only that, but a 25% memory bandwidth advantage. Definitely makes it strange that the PS5 ever does perform better, tbh, unless they have clearly different settings/resolution for a given game.
Re: Digital Foundry's Elden Ring Verdict Shows How Important VRR Is On Xbox
@Spaceman-Spiff I think that's recency bias at play, as several notable recent games run better on PS5 - like Cyberpunk 1.5 and Elden Ring.
The truth is in one of the 1 yeaer retrospective videos, they found the SeriesX on average had about a 15% advantage over the PS5, ie close to its 20% on paper advantage.
As for Elden Ring and Cyberpunk? I can't explain that. I would have thought it was as simple as the SeriesX having higher resolution targets to take advantage of the extra horsepower, but that doesn't appear to be the case. It must be API related, as the architecture is similar enough that you'd think optimisations would work both ways.
Re: Pick One: Which Of These FromSoftware Games Is Your Favourite?
Frame Gride
Re: Review: GRID Legends - A Solid Arcade Racer That's Missing A Bit Of Flair
Arcade racer? I don't think any track based racer with realistic visuals can be considered "arcade".
This is an arcade racer http://ps2media.gamespy.com/ps2/image/article/708/708791/outrun-2006-coast-2-coast-20060515014418490.jpg
Admittedly the handling does look absurdly arcadey and NFS esque though, which is unsurprising as it's now under EA.
It's a shame because I'm a big fan of the original GRID, and imo it's the original "simcade" racer. It was really great for its day and still holds up pretty well now. Codemasters' rally games have always been amazing too.
But I feel like their games are starting to lag behind the competition a bit now tbh, their visuals and physics now seem several levels below Forza Horizon for example.
Re: Forza, Age Of Empires And Deathloop Win At The 2022 DICE Awards
@pip_muzz I am really surprised Psychonauts 2 didn't do better at awards.
It seems EXACTLY the type of game that would sweep loads of awards - the originality, creativity, premise, and also simply the studio behind it.
If anything racing games seem like the kind of games that get taken for granted, even though they're the best
Re: Roundup: Here's What The Critics Are Saying About Elden Ring
@Banjo- Interesting, first I heard about the 9.2 TFLOP figure too. Where did you read that?
It does surprise me whenever the PS5 does have the edge in a game, because on paper the hardware difference is fairly significant in favour of the Series X. Not only does it have a solid 20% TFLOP advantage (or 32% if your figure is correct) but it also has a 25% VRAM bandwidth advantage too. I mean, it's not like it trounces the PS5 but those are solid numbers, like going up a tier in the GPU world (say from a 2070 super to 2080 super).
Also, we're not in the 360/PS3 era where they had vastly different architectures - the hardware is nigh on identical, and surely the APIs are too. So it is weird when you see some recent games favour the PS5, not sure if it's as simple as more ambitious resolution targets on the SeriesX or something more random.
I agree it'll be interesting to see what happens when the generation in in full swing. It's no surprise the PS5's best looking game is a PS5 exclusive rather than cross gen.
What would you say is the best looking SeriesX game? I still think FH4 and 5 are unmatched, running at 4k60 both look superb. Flight Sim is good too.
Re: Elden Ring Analysis Video Compares Xbox Vs PS5 Performance
@StylesT Digital Foundry - on one of their 1 year retrospective type videos - tallied up the Xbox Vs PS5 performance differential so far and the SeriesX did come out ahead by about 15% as I recall, so fairly close to the 20% advantage it has on paper. And there was a recent game where the SeriesX trounced the PS5 handily, I think that Tales game.
It's just there's been several notable titles that for some reason the PS5 has had an advantage in recently, namely Cyberpunk 1.5 and Elden Ring.
Re: Roundup: Here's What The Critics Are Saying About Elden Ring
@Titntin Thanks for the info, indeed I had no idea the materials etc would be different, and even the triggers.
Interestingly you did list 2 of my gripes with the pad - the nasty stippled plastic, and the sticky triggers, with the third being the pretty loose analog sticks. So pretty good that 2 of them are better.
Re: Roundup: Here's What The Critics Are Saying About Elden Ring
@Banjo- agreed, I was in a bit of a rush reading and replying, I glossed over the engineer part
That is very interesting, I would have thought there would be a bigger performance differential between them, but maybe it's more about featureset than performance.
Re: Roundup: Here's What The Critics Are Saying About Elden Ring
@Banjo- wtf, first I've heard of that. Do you think that's really true? I mean, even AMD have seemingly always claimed the PS5 is RDNA2
https://twitter.com/Radeon/status/1403079595696480259
Re: Roundup: Here's What The Critics Are Saying About Elden Ring
It's nuts the PS5 doesn't support VRR tbh. I know it's more of a PC gaming thing, but seeing as the tech is there and TVs now have it, why not use it?
Re: Roundup: Here's What The Critics Are Saying About Elden Ring
@Dezzy70 Actually no I have not tried, I've seen it though and like the design of the d-pad. £150 though, oof
I do like the sound of adjustable tension analog sticks though. That's one of the things that surprised me actually, the sticks on the SeriesX controller feel quite loose and wallowy, kind of how DualShocks used to feel.
I love the higher firmness of the 360 sticks, they feel much nicer and more accurate.
Re: Roundup: Here's What The Critics Are Saying About Elden Ring
@Titntin I love my SeriesX - it's overall much better than I expected, and made me love console gaming again.
Apart from the controller That's the one thing that did not meet my expectations at all, especially given the fairly lofty public opinion of it. I also think it feels quite cheap and plasticky, just not very nice to hold or use. I was genuinely surprised it's so well liked.
The 360 controller feels weightier and better made and more comfortable. I still think the 360 controller is the best all round controller, and is my preference for PC gaming. It would be perfect if it had a better d-pad and 6 face buttons. It has better battery life too.
About the Forza controller - how is it better exactly? To me it looks identical to the standard one, just colourful.
Re: Roundup: Here's What The Critics Are Saying About Elden Ring
Might be time to try another FromSoftware game, as usually they are not my cup of tea.
This does look spectacular though, no doubt.
As an aside, the odd instance where the PS5 performs better (Elden Ring and Cyberpunk 1.5 as 2 recent examples) surprises me. The consoles have such similar architecture, yet the Series X is about 20% more powerful. Only thing I can think of is developers try to make use of that 20% with higher dynamic resolution targets or higher settings, and push things slightly too far, leading to less consistent performance.
Might have to get this one on PC for perfect performance.
Re: 50+ Best Games On Xbox Game Pass (February 2022)
Yakuza 3, 4, 5 and 6 say hello.
Re: 10 Activision Blizzard Games We're Hoping To See On Xbox Game Pass
@Medic_Alert I hate to be a negative nancy, but I completely agree.
I was taken aback by the staggering amount Microsoft paid for Activision, because they're not a developer that's ever been on my radar at all really. I mean, looking at the list - objectively there are some very big games, but most of them don't appeal to me at all, so just from my own perspective it seemed absolutely nuts they are worth that much. Even objectively, only Call of Duty seems like the only real big hitter now.
Do you think they overpaid? I wonder at what point this deal will be profitable for Microsoft. I thought it was probably just to make COD exclusive, but they seem to suggest it will be multiplatform.
Re: Talking Point: How Useful Do You Find Quick Resume On Xbox Series X|S?
@Medic_Alert Sounds about right. I have actually had around 6 games in quick launch, which is very impressive, but that did include a couple of 360 games.
Re: Talking Point: How Useful Do You Find Quick Resume On Xbox Series X|S?
@k3lt0n I have a 1tb USB drive full of older games and it works on every game I've tried from there. There's usually at least one Xbox One or 360 game on my Quick Resume list.
That's something that again I was amazed by, I did only expect it to work on Series X games, as I thought it perhaps had to have some developer input too. But no, it seems it really does just copy the game state from RAM to the SSD and load it. Works brilliantly.
PS - any idea how much space is reserved for quick resume on the internal SSD? 50gb maybe? Well worth it tbh, the size of one game, for a really fast next gen experience.
Re: Talking Point: How Useful Do You Find Quick Resume On Xbox Series X|S?
It's incredible, and tbh one of the most impressive things about the SeriesX. Despite having a gaming laptop more powerful than the SeriesX, Quick Resume is the main reason I would choose to play on the SeriesX rather than my PC.
The game would have to look significantly better (FH5) or run at 60 (Microsoft Flight Sim) for me to choose PC over SeriesX.
And that's mainly due to quick resume and how quick and easy everything is on the SeriesX.
Note - I only play single player games which is maybe why I've had a better experience than most. But it really has worked on basically every single game I've tried it on.
Re: Cyberpunk 2077 Has Everyone Praising Xbox Smart Delivery Again
@Grumblevolcano I stand corrected, I just watched DigitalFoundry's analysis.
I'm right that it's using mostly Ultra settings at 4k60, but indeed there are some notable omissions like SSAO and driver animations running at 30fps.
It's odd because for the extremely small amount of animation there is, there's simply not reason at all why they shouldn't run at 60, on a machine the calibre of SeriesX. Absolutely bizarre. On modern GPUs and CPUs animation is not that expensive, especially considering it's literally one character.
Same with SSAO, on a 12 TFLOP GPU it shouldn't be too expensive at all, on reasonable settings. Shouldn't put a dent in the frametime tbh.
Night shadows obviously cost more, but that's actually one setting I don't care about, they look very odd actually, and kind of standout in a bad way.
But this version should absolutely have SSAO and 60fps animation, and neither one would put a dent in the framerate. FH4 is very, very well optimised. Runs at 4k120 on my laptop, and my laptop is nowhere near twice the power of a SeriesX.
Still, it does look stunning, and I really can't imagine anyone wanting to play at 30fps just for SSAO
Re: Cyberpunk 2077 Has Everyone Praising Xbox Smart Delivery Again
@Grumblevolcano do you have any examples of areas that are better on the OneX? To my eyes, the SeriesX version is basically maxed out at 4k60. It appears to be on ultra settings, and running at a rock solid 4k60.
IE it doesn't need a mode switch, as it's essentially quality mode but at twice the framerate.
Re: Could Street Fighter 6 Be Officially Unveiled This Weekend?
I really, really hope SF6 comes to Xbox this time.
I also hope it's much better than SF5.
SF4 was my game of the generation, I had it on the 360 and played it more than any other game that gen by far. So good, and so addictive. I think USF4 is the best fighting game ever made.
SF5? Not so much, I tried, but could never really get into it. Didn't have the same spark and flow and excitement of SF4. Felt clunky in comparison, and like something was missing. It felt less like Street Fighter. Very boring to watch too, SF4 is great to watch, especially 2 elite players going at it.
I'll play SF6 either way, on my PC if I have to, but for convenience sake I hope it comes to Xbox.
Re: Cyberpunk 2077 Has Everyone Praising Xbox Smart Delivery Again
@Grumblevolcano How is the previous gen version of FH4 better? It's 30fps, with lower settings, and lower resolution. The XSX version is leagues ahead, it's not even close actually.
Tbh Forza Horizon 4 is one of the games I found to be astonishingly good on the Series X, it runs at a rock solid 4k60 and looks incredible with blazing fast loading times and quick resume.
Re: Six More Game Pass Titles Updated With Touch Controls
@Terrin OK. I had a quick go of Yakuza and Dirt5 out of curiosity, and to my surprise the touch controls worked far better than expected.
Would I actually play the whole game like that? No. I have an 8BitDo SN30 pro plus one of their excellent mobile clips (the adjustable one). But I can see the appeal of touch controls, for sheer convenience and those without controls.
Though it varies and is sometimes a bit glitchy etc, Cloud play really is so much better than I expected. Astonishingly good really, even the input response is far better than expected.
Re: Six More Game Pass Titles Updated With Touch Controls
@Terrin which ones?
Re: Cyberpunk 2077's Free Xbox Series X|S Upgrade Is Now Available
I do wish XSX games would give more options. This game should have a RT performance mode, 60fps and dynamic 1440p, for those that care more about performance and eye candy than resolution.
I also wish Flight Simulator had a 1080p60 option.
Re: Xbox Is Getting A New Feature For Quick Resume Very Soon
@Zucaritas and @Banjo- 100% agreed.
It is probably my favourite feature too, and what has made me love console gaming again. Just like you said, it's like going back to the golden era of console gaming - no faf, no fuss, no endless loading screens and annoying intros, just pick up and play.
It's worked flawlessly for me with almost every single game I've tried it on, 360, XBone, and Series X games.
I have a beastly gaming laptop that is even more powerful than the Series X (runs FH4 at 4k120 ), but it is actually quick resume that makes the Series X hard to beat. The sheer convenience and pick up and play factor is classic console gaming. I love being able to instantly switch between some of my favourite games like Forza Horizon 4, Yakuza, Fight Night/UFC etc.
My laptop being able to run Flight Simulator at 60+ fps is a nice perk though, and that level of customisation and scalability is why PC gaming will always have a place alongside console gaming.
Re: PSA: Control And The Medium Both Leave Xbox Game Pass Next Week
I played Control for the first time recently and though I wanted to like it, I have to admit I was kind of shocked at how highly rated and regarded it is, and that it's a pretty big game.
I found it very underwhelming and tedious, with some fairly atrocious writing and voice acting etc too.
Re: Xbox Game Pass In 2022: The Full List Of Everything Announced So Far
They got rid of 3 Yakuza games for... this?
Re: Talking Point: What's The First Game You'd Recommend Downloading On Xbox Game Pass?
Forza Horizon 4.
Re: Xbox Employee Recalls 'Sheer Hate & Vitriol' The Community Team Received In 2013
I skipped that entire generation, even being an avid console gamer.
The 360 was amazing when it came out, but when the PS4 and Xbone launched, I remember thinking "wtf, these aren't even as good as my fairly normal PC". Very underwhelming, and at no point did I feel compelled to buy either. It kind of forced me to be a PC gamer that generation, as it was simply better, and I could play most of the same games at 60fps etc.
This time it's completely different. The Series X is incredible, and has made me love console gaming again. The retroactive enhancements, FPS boost, quick resume and sheer horsepower are all game changers, as well as Game Pass. I now much prefer the Series X to PC gaming.
Re: When Will The Xbox Christmas Holiday Sale 2021 Be Revealed?
@JetmanUK Ah that's interesting, I didn't know that.
That would explain the strange gap in reviews as I was going back and reading through them
What is the story there? Did the site change ownership?
Re: Another Five Games Will Leave Xbox Game Pass Soon (December 31)
@NEStalgia You can do classic remote play on the Series consoles? I had no idea, I haven't seen the option anywhere. I thought it was just cloud play.
Re: Another Five Games Will Leave Xbox Game Pass Soon (December 31)
@Handy_Man agreed, they are simply some of the best games I've ever played, and it's such a shame to see them go. I liked the idea of more people experiencing them through GamePass, if they wouldn't ordinarily try them.
As a huge Shenmue fan, they are kind of like the more action packed and gritty spiritual successor.
Re: Another Five Games Will Leave Xbox Game Pass Soon (December 31)
Oh man, not Yakuza. Honestly having all the Yakuza games was one of the pulls of GamePass for me, in addition the other almost 400 games of course
That sucks, for some reason I imagined they would stay there for a long time, as obviously the effort was made to have the entire collection.
I already have most of them on other platforms, but it's one of my favourite series, so was really looking forward to playing them on my Series X.
Re: Digital Foundry Calls Halo Infinite 'A Brilliant Game', But With Numerous Tech Issues
@NEStalgia I agree with everything you just said. Tbh the focus on high framerates and even the retroactive FPS boost is the main reason I'm over the moon with my Series X, it's made me love console gaming again, after skipping the entire PS4 generation.
You know as I said earlier in this thread, I do find 30fps a bit of an eyesore plain and simple, and sometimes headache inducing, ie with big steps between frames, fast movement or panning, with no motion blur. I find it just about tolerable if it's a locked 30fps with motion blur to smooth the judder, and I also find a small handheld makes the judder less pronounced, but overall the difference between 30 and 60 is night and day.
I very much agree with you about the "feel". Even if 30 didn't hurt my eyes or give me headaches, 60 just feels so much better, more fluid and lifelike. I think if there was one word to decribe 60 over 30 it would be "engaging".
A locked 60fps simply makes me feel more part of the action, and makes the game FAR more immersive than 30 ever could.
Re: Two More Games Are Available Today With Xbox Game Pass (December 7)
I don't think I've ever played a Serious Sam game, this actually looks far better than I expected.
Re: Digital Foundry Calls Halo Infinite 'A Brilliant Game', But With Numerous Tech Issues
@BlueOcean NL is a funny one, I actually discovered NL before here, and I have noticed there's a decent amount of hostility and bickering there, ie more than here, which surprises me. I thought the Nintendo crowd would be more friendly and easy going, but I guess that's just the internet in general
Oh and regarding OLEDs, agreed, all the things you listed are what I imagine I'll notice the most for sure. The 4k will be good obviously, but I am actually less resolution obsessed than most, so I'm looking forward to the perfect black levels and low input lag more than anything, plus VRR and HDR.
Having said all that, given how much I appreciate 60fps, I am very much looking forward to trying 120fps for myself, just to see if there is any significant difference, if it's perceivably better.
On that note @BlueOcean @themightyant @NEStalgia - is there a 120hz title in particular that seems like a good showcase, that you noticed more than others?
Re: Digital Foundry Calls Halo Infinite 'A Brilliant Game', But With Numerous Tech Issues
@themightyant and @BlueOcean
Interesting to hear opinions on 120fps. I still have a 1080p60 plasma, so I haven't experienced 120, even though I'll be getting an OLED soon.
But yeah it's pretty much as I thought. Even though I find 30fps very hard to tolerate now - a headache inducing eyesore - and is a big reason why I was mainly a PC gamer throughout the PS4/XboxOne gen, I had a feeling that the difference between 60 and 120 would be much, much less.
At 30 there is such obvious judder and ghosting, and in contrast 60 looks almost perfectly smooth, like, how it be much smoother? Especially a very locked 60. So naturally it's a law of diminishing returns, it doesn't seem possible for something to be THAT much smoother than a locked 60. It's why I was shocked there are even 240hz+ displays now. I mean is that just for competitive gaming? To have 1ms faster inputs
Incidentally I am very surprised at some of the negativity/hostility directed towards Digital Foundry.
DF are awesome, and the thing is, it's literally their job to go through these games with a technical fine toothed comb. Does it require zooming in, slowing down at times, and pointing out flaws most people wouldn't notice? Of course, but again it's their job and they do it well, you can't blame them for being very thorough.
Re: How To Buy Daytona USA On Xbox One, Series X And Series S
I might have to do @JetmanUK 's trick, RR6 is good enough for the hassle of switching region
Re: Some Forza Fans Say They're Getting 'Bored' With Horizon 5 Already
It's excellent, and as stated the very open and generous progression system is the same as before really.
However I must admit I don't find it as compelling to play as 4, or as addictive.
Playground Games struck gold with 4 imo, I think there's a reason FH4 elevated the series to a new level of popularity. It has a certain charm and level of immersion I find kind of lacking in FH5 tbh.
FH5 is probably still the second best game in the series, I just think FH4 is extra special.
Re: The Dreamcast's Legacy Lives On With Xbox, Says Former SEGA America President
Even though objectively there are consoles with an overall better, more solid library of games, the Dreamcast is still probably my favourite console ever. Certainly the one I have the most fond memories of, along with the N64.
As a teenager I remember being astounded by suddenly having arcade perfect games in my bedroom. DC games looked amazing with the VGA adapter, and still do tbh.
It probably helps that Shenmue is my favourite game ever
Even though it was quite flawed, I was blown away by Sonic Adventure too, and really enjoyed playing it at the time. It was a great launch title.
As someone else said above, it seemed like a massive step up from the PS1 and N64, arguably more than any other generation since.