BAMozzy

The marketing maybe changing, but the concept hasn't or isn't. The point was that ALL these devices gave you access to 'Xbox' games - whether native releases or cloud based - the sentiment is still there too, but the audience is still somewhat closed minded on what 'Xbox' is. They still think Xbox is just the Physical Console Hardware, not the Entire Microsoft Gaming division, their games and their Gaming Ecosystem.

The language and marketing may well change, but I can't see MS reverting back to 'Just' their Console and not releasing on PC or Cloud Day 1 just so the Console 'sells' and Console gamers feel they have exclusives that are ONLY on their Hardware, that maybe MS will then challenge Sony in Console sales instead of lagging behind because PC (and casual Cloud) gamers will have to buy the Hardware or miss out.

@Nakatomi_Uk 1000 staff, 1000 salaries, 1000 health insurance plans, Employee and building Insurance, rates inc electricity costs for the hardware they use, the heating and rent, Tax etc etc.

What jobs do you think they have going that they can just move 1000 staff - I doubt ALL are working on Fortnite as it is. I would expect that any they could keep, any 'open' vacancies within Epic, they'd have tried to fill with but they aren't really saving money by closing down those Fortnite modes, they are saving money because by closing those modes, they don't need the staff to support them. They aren't generating the money to pay the Staff so the Staff have to go.

If they haven't got the revenue coming in to pay them now, where is the revenue going to come in to pay them if they move them. No one wants to hear about Job losses but I doubt they'd make people redundant if they had positions and/or revenue coming in to pay them. Its the fact that 'Epic' as a whole are losing money - they are spending more than they have coming in and so have to reduce their costs before they go bankrupt and EVERYONE loses their Jobs.

People globally are struggling to put food on the table, pay their bills, put fuel in the car to go to work etc etc so aren't spending money on things like Cosmetic bundles in Free to Pay Games. Every Publisher is struggling as 'leisure' activities, like gaming, are often the hardest hit, Many jobs have been lost, studios closed, projects cancelled as Gamers don't have the disposable income to spend on Games as their costs are rising whilst pay is stagnating...

I'm torn between no and only for Back Compatibility.

PC, Series S and Play Anywhere, even Game Pass are purely Digital - its just Series X owners that can buy Physical and I wonder how many ONLY use it for BC with XB1 and older Hardware, choosing to buy ALL their new games digitally.

Physical sales have dropped significantly on Xbox Hardware - especially with Game Pass and the store discounts. I don't know if 'Play Anywhere' has been much of an incentive as I expect most Xbox gamers don't play on PC to want or care about Play Anywhere.

There will always be some that will want Physical, even if Games no longer fit on a Disc and/or cost more because of the additional costs of manufacturing and distributing - especially with the 'distribution' fuel costs rising. Some people will still want Physical even if all that's on the disc is the Licence key, that way they can sell that licence.

Maybe the best option will be to offer a separate Drive for BC and let 3rd Party Publishers decide if they also want to releases Physical editions but I don't think they'll bother themselves. Between Game Pass and all the Digital Storefronts, they'll probably decide that not enough people will buy Physical to justify the costs of manufacturing and it will likely be the SAME version as the PC version, not a Bespoke version ported to 'Xbox Console' specifically. PC's don't generally have a Disc Drive and I don't know if Drives will be manufactured for much longer.

When ALL Developers are building for and releasing on Windows PC, then of course it will make it a LOT easier and quicker for Developers to bring their games to Windows on Xbox Helix.

The major benefit to Xbox Studios (and others) is that they don't have to port their games and get them working on a 2nd Platform - thus cutting a lot of the cost and time down enabling Devs to release their games sooner. Its essentially the 'same' game released on PC as their 'Project Helix' Hardware - just with Xbox Achievements - but the Game is built to run on Windows PC so will run on Windows Xbox cutting down a lot of the time and cost of porting to a Console.

Windows 11 is designed and built for multi-tasking - a Jak of all trades OS for business and leisure users, for multi-media or office use etc etc but not a 'master' of one - specifically gaming which interests the majority of is here.

Its that ability to multi-task simultaneously across such a variety of uses that Windows became such a vital and widely used OS for PC's - in fact I doubt you'd find a PC without it - unless you go the Apple Mac route with iOS.

The purpose of this is to 'turn off' all unnecessary (for gaming) processes so that its not using 'resources' that could be used by Games - some processes would use some CPU cores so the game would be inconsistent. Consoles for example have 8cores but set aside 1-2cores purely for OS features so games are more consistent have 'fixed' resources purely for gaming.

Optimising the OS will help and it would be 'great' if they can bring some of the gaming features to PC - Game/OS updates when not in use, Quick Resume etc. Merging Xbox into Microsoft maybe the 'best' thing to happen to Windows and PC gaming for years as the Windows team have 'neglected' Gaming/gamers for years and now they have Xbox OS teams working with Windows team to optimise and improve the PC gaming experience!!

@Jayphex Basically all Gaming Hardware has a CPU, GPU and RAM for running games - even those devices that don't let you custmise or update the hardware.

Consoles tend to be built with a single chip that has both the CPU and GPU processors built into one 'chip' rather than a Gaming PC that may have a separate CPU and a separate Graphics chip on a 'Card' that can just plug into a Motherboard - RAM too plugs into that motherboard.

A LOT of devices, inc the RoG Xbox Ally, Laptops/Tablets etc may have a single chip with both CPU and GPU built into it so it can play games. PC's have tended to have Plug in RAM, SSD's etc into a board so they can sell you different specs. Pay a bit more to have 64GB RAM or a 2TB SSD for example - but a Console will likely have the RAM or SSD fixed to the main board along with the CPU/GPU chip because they are 'fixed' spec devices.

The only reason PC's have Graphics Cards is so that you can replace them, upgrade them etc where as Consoles are fixed spec hardware and built around a single Chip with its CPU and GPU combined.

I'd rather pay £1k and not have to pay a monthly fee for Online Social gaming than £700+ and another £5-10 a month for the next 5-7yrs just on PS+ or GPC.

We'll have to see what the world and market is actually like when this finally releases - the distribution costs too could make quite a difference with Fuel costs rising. The cost to transport the hardware around the world to get them to the customers will make a difference - just like costs of the raw materials inc Silicon, Copper etc can affect the cost.

I'm not worrying about it today or making a decision either. I don't have enough information to make an informed decision today and don't know how much alternatives will cost. A PS6 may not be a good alternative - not just specs, but other costs (PS+), Library (which includes exising Library carried forward) and Policy - no guarantee MS will release the Xbox games I want to play day/date and unlikely to have Game Pass for 'bette' value way of playing those games.

Point is, its too early to decide - you may not need to buy at all if you have a PC or content to play via cloud on your current Xbox hardware - especially if you choose to play the majority of games on other Hardware...

The entry/budget level will likely be Cloud on whatever device you have - streaming at upto 1440/60fps will be the cheapest option if you don't want or can't justify the 'Premium' Hardware option!

@BacklogBrad They'll still continue to shout that because they can't wrap their heads around the fact that Xbox is the entire Microsoft Gaming division, not just the traditional Console Hardware.

The fact is that since 'merging' Xbox into Microsoft a decade ago, when ALL games began releasing Day/Date on PC, Xbox and Cloud (starting with Sea of Thieves), Microsoft has 'invested' heavily in Gaming - in 2018, they announced numerous Studios they acquired - Playground, Obsidian, inXile, Compulsion, Undead Labs, Double Fine etc and then followed those up with first acquiring Bethesda and then ABK growing 'Xbox' to help MS become one of the biggest brands in Gaming overtaking Sony.

The 'Console' itself certainly hasn't grown or matched XB360 numbers, let alone compete with PS5 or Switch 2 sales numbers, but unlike Sony and Nintendo, MS's 'Xbox' users are not limited to just their Console, they also have PC and Cloud users and by PC, that's Windows, Battlenet & Bethesda.net platforms (not Steam - although their games are sold there too) - and Game Pass PC too of course.

Point is, they'll still shout Xbox is Dead because Xbox Consoles are unlikely to sell like Playstation or Nintendo consoles - even if they 'stop' releasing games on Playstation/Nintendo hardware (excluding CoD, Minecraft etc which will remain multi-plat regardless) because Xbox gamers will still have the option to play on Hardware they already have via Cloud or their PC hardware - thus negating the need to buy 'Project Helix'. I bet XB1 and/or Series owners can play via Cloud instead of upgrading if they want to save money...

Xbox won't 'die' because they'll still have their OWN platform (not just become a multi-platform Publisher like Sega) - even if that is 'Windows' PC and their OWN Cloud platform too. The traditional 'Console' may die but they can still make/licence Xbox branded Hardware with a MS OS at its heart!!! But to 'Console' gamers, they'll consider Xbox dead.

@Fiendish-Beaver I do think that MS perhaps have expected too much in some areas and in others, circumstances beyond their control have inhibited the growth they had expected/hoped for after the Acquisitions.

ABK was announced in 2021 although we all know that it dragged on far longer than anticipated before MS actually took over. In that time, things 'globally' had changed with the Russian Market being closed off from them as well as gaming suffering as prices rose whilst incomes stagnated leading to less disposable income for gamers.

As you are likely aware, many gamers are choosing to play Free to Play games like Roblox and Fortnite, certainly not buying the number of 'new' games they were a few years ago when Publishers were investing the studios, greenlighting games that would take at least the next 5yrs or so to make - committing to spend but not predicting the cost would rise so much whilst gamers would spend less. That's why Every publisher, not just MS has cancelled games and closed Studios - some Studios bought in the past 5ys or so not even releasing a game for their new owners before being shut.

For many on a site like this, which is aimed very much at the Console gamer and vocal minority, its likely to be very much more negative because their 'preferred' hardware isn't competing with Nintendo or Sony's Console in terms of sales figures, Seemingly dead, despite growing to become 'bigger' than both of those Publishers in terms of Gaming.

As for being to 'soon' - Cloud obviously is as the infrastructure isn't really there for it to be 'optimal' everywhere - although the experience is far better on home internet than on the go wifi and its also not something MS themselves have any control over. However, I'd say that them opting to return to their PC platform and try and build that back up was not too soon - maybe neglected it a bit too long. Most Gen Z gamers are PC gamers and don't want to be 'locked in' to that Console only platform. They've grown up with a PC and using Windows so its just as convenient/easy as a Console and grew-up with a SteamDeck so that's where their Games library is - they don't really care about Physical or 'Hardware', just that they can access their Games, Music etc on whatever device they can sign into their account on to access their Digital content wherever they are. The 'console' isn't important, its just an option - maybe the most affordable 'hardware' option for Native gaming...

@Fiendish-Beaver I bet MS don't wonder - but the gaming community continuosly wonder...

A decade ago, MS announced that ALL their games would release Day/date on PC - thus no more 'exclusives' and the Community back then said Xbox was 'dead' as there was now no reason to own an Xbox. The XB1X, Series S and Series X have all released since Xbox and I'd say sold reasonable well considering they are totally optional. Now a decade on, they ask why Xbox isn't selling like Playstation yet know that you don't 'need' to buy an Xbox to play in the Xbox ecosystem...

That's not even counting the Cloud and all the devices (inc Fire Stick in recent years) that no doubt would 'hurt' the sales of Hardware. In fact, Xbox gamers don't even need to upgrade from their XB1s/X hardware to play Xbox as they can play games via cloud on these. Why spend money on upgrading hardware when you can play on the hardware you already own?

People obviously have bought Series consoles as they offer a native and improved gaming experience over cloud, a 'Console style' experience and at a console like price point they won't get from a PC and the ability to play older Xbox console games via BC.

However, a LOT of the Casuals maybe content to play on devices they own via Cloud (inc their old XB1 hardware or Firestick) thus negating the need to purchase a Series Console. PC gamers, regardless of the Specs of their set-up, aren't spending money on an Xbox Console when it has NO games they can't play - even on a Student Laptop via the Cloud with whatever Controller they have/prefer.

I'd wager that Microsoft themselves expected to sell far less Consoles but expand the Xbox userbase beyond what their Consoles have ever reached. Xbox is 'bigger' than its ever been since they've built up their Studio count and owned IP's and now one of the biggest brands in Gaming - Xbox is not just the Console, its the brand name for ALL of Microsoft Gaming. I bet MS themselves didn't expect to sell as many units as Sony or Nintendo - even after buying Bethesda and ABK - maybe expected to sell more Game Pass subscriptions across PC, Console and Cloud but not necessarily more Consoles knowing that a percentage will choose to play on PC or Cloud so won't be buying Console Hardware!

@kmtrain83 And that's where Cloud comes in and you having to use a Microsoft owned App and a Microsoft owned Subscription to Stream their games. I can't see them releasing 'Native' versions to compete with their Windows or Xbox hardware versions in general - although certain IP's could be the exception (like Minecraft for example).

Ideally, they want to get you into their ecosystem playing on a Microsoft powered device - whether that's a Windows PC, an Xbox Console or their Cloud via their App. Yes there are Games that will release Day/Date on Playstation for example but most probably won't. If they do release day 1, it will be OLD games they've remastered, maybe even for a 2nd time (like Gears and Halo) otherwise, the games they do release will be months, if not years later to maximise Revenue from Gamers that won't or can't buy their Product to play. As MS customers, you get the games first and opportunity to play 'free' via a MS Service....

If you want to play games like Halo, Gears, Forza, Fable natively etc you'll buy a Microsoft OS powered device as that is what they will be 'built' for in the first instance and available in their service too. You may get some games (eventually) on other platforms, but that isn't guaranteed and may wait years to play - long after they've been on sale on Microsoft platforms!

You know some games will certainly release Day 1 elsewhere, but you also have to consider that MS own these IP's, these Studios etc and can decide to keep games Exclusive if they want...

What you also have to consider is whether there are any EXTRA costs to the hardware like Consoles. Both Playstation and Xbox consoles have required a Subscription to unlock the full Library and options the Console offer - PS+ Essential and Gold, now Game Pass Core are 'required' for most gamers.

Whilst I know you can buy cheaper in bulk, both these are $10 a month. I know that most gamers will likely buy years in advance to keep the cost lower, but it still adds up over the years. Even at £60 a year, over 5yrs that's an additional £300 on top of the £500+ you spent on your Series X and/or PS5.

I'm sure they'll have Game Pass for PC, but I don't expect to have to pay for Online Social features - that would push gamers to buy all their Online games through Steam which don't require any sub fees. Why buy CoD on Xbox when it requires Game Pass Core yet buying on Steam or Battlenet doesn't require a sub for Online Social Gaming?

Of course that may mean the Hardware isn't subsidised so more expensive than Consoles tend to be - but Consoles are often sold at a LOSS and then make money from the gamer because they are 'locked in' to paying Sub fees to unlock Content and features, buying games from their store ONLY giving them a Monopoly on digital content etc. That's why Consoles are/were 'cheap' in the first place as the manufacturers expected to make money off of selling you Subs, Games and Peripherals like Controllers that won't last a generation...

@kmtrain83 What's that got to do with anything? It won't have Windows or Xbox Console games so the only way to play your 'Xbox' on an Apple device is via the Cloud.

Microsoft will want you to buy Games from their store and play on their Platform - not Steam or Battlenet. Apple Mac/iOS aren't their platform or selling OS's to those devices - but they do have their App that you can play via Cloud. They only make games for Windows PC, not Mac.

Apple Mac is irrelevant to the conversation as they aren't going to offer Xbox games and certainly not Xbox Console games 'natively' so no Xbox/Microsoft Gamer is likely to be looking at Apple Macs as an option to rival a Windows PC or Xbox Hybrid Console...

@kmtrain83 Maybe it will be a bespoke/Hybrid OS or custom Hardware design that allows them to switch between PC and legacy Xbox modes so that only they (or Licenced partners) can access/use.

The RoG Xbox Ally had a custom Windows build that booted to a optimised version so I'm sure they could have a Customised Windows build for their 'Console' thats purely designed gaming and has Back Compat/Series OS built in to run Console games but that's not the 'Windows' version they'll sell to other PC manufactures, only those that wish to Partner with or Licence the Xbox brand.

If it requires some Custom Hardware or a specific tier of AMD Chip as MS has partnered with AMD for their future Hardware, that too may stop some cheap PC clone.

When the RoG Xbox Ally's launched, they were the only ones with the Handheld optimised version of Windows - although it did roll out to insiders and eventually other devices, but that also shows that they 'could' have their own unique version of Windows that does allow Back Compat with their Console Library.

At the end of the day though, they may also not care if other PC users can now access the Xbox Console Library and then decide to buy and play Xbox Console games on their 'cheap PC's as they'll still be in the 'Xbox' ecosystem contributing to their user base numbers, revenue, engagement figures etc etc. If EVERY PC suddenly becomes an 'Xbox' Console able to play Xbox Console games as long as you have an Xbox Profile and buy from Xbox, I don't think MS will be too 'concerned' you didn't buy their Hardware - especially not if its subsidised and makes no money or even loses money like most Consoles do at launch.

Xbox Console will likely be exclusive to Microsofts PC platform regardless - not Steam or Epic - so it may bring PC gamers from Steam to Microsoft on their PC, choose to play on MS's Platform instead. What many console gamers don't seem to understand is that a PC isn't a 'single' Platform (Steam) but multiple Platforms and its not always the most popular for some games CoD for example was more popular on Battlenet than Steam but Steam is the only one to publish data. MS may use Xbox Console Games to really be a Rival to Steam on PC so gamers maybe can access on ANY Windows PC - after all, Windows is Microsoft owned...

It only needs to be a PC hardware with BC to Series S/X as that brings your Consoke games forward and all 'new' releases will be PC games anyway so MS doesn't have to make their games for two different Hardware platforms.

PC and Console share the same account and Profile so all your Console games from the Past generation (inc the BC library on the Console) just need to be playable on their next hardware and all their 'next' gen games will just be PC versions. They'll run on the 'Console' anyway but also on ANY PC too so will still be Play Anywhere' but with less costs and work involved as they aren't having to port and try and get a different Hardware version running too..

Its about being on the side of the OWNER of the software, the creator not the 'entitled' person who thinks they deserve 'more' than what they actually paid for.

I as a consumer am totally aware of what I am 'purchasing'. I've know for years and years that you don't 'own' software, just a licence. I've seen many Devs/Publishers try to protect their property - mostly from Piracy back then.

Games like this you didn't even pay a Licence fee, they are 'Free to Play' so you certainly can't say you've bought a Licence let alone paid for the 'Game'. If you bought Cosmetics, that's like Donating to a streamer and then demanding your donations back when you find out that streamer no longer wishes to stream anymore.

But like I said, I do expect that things will change, that Publishers will be forced to make things a LOT clearer about what you are actually purchasing so you don't 'think' you've bought the Game and then feel 'entitled' to it, that you are only purchasing a Licence and that the Licence (and/or access to the Software) can cease at some point. At most, I think you can argue they've misled gamers and the Laws would likely agree.

its not 'anti-consumer' to sell a License to use their Products/services and I really do side with Creators who own their art. Its their Product, their IP, their creation so up to them to decide if they wish to remove it/shut it down. As consumers, you should have a right to proper notification and opportunity to claim refunds if certain criteria are met - but not a right to keep accessing if the owner doesn't want that...

@Jenkinss At most, EU Law will make it MUCH clearer that you are NOT purchasing a Game but a Licence to access the Software that is OWNED by the Creator or Publisher. Whether you or I as consumers like that or not, you have NEVER owned a Game, just a Licence to access the software. Whilst you can sell/trade the Physical copy - whether on Disc or Cartridge, you have only sold your Licence.

I don't think that EVERY game should be kept 'alive' and that's not Anti-consumer, that's coming down on the side of the 'OWNERS' of their Software. I do think though that as a Consumer, you should be better informed of what you are purchasing and that if games are to be shut down, that you as a Consumer should have proper notification and in a reasonable amount of time. I also think that 'refunds' should be available too under certain circumstances - for example no more than 5hrs playtime.

Devs won't stop making Online games because the most likely outcome is that Publishers will have to be more transparent on what you are buying. Its your 'Entitlement' attitude that thinks you have a right to keep playing/accessing something you don't OWN, that's not yours. You bought a Licence only - which is why those games require you to sign in to your Digital account or put a disc into your drive - where your Licence key is stored. Without a valid licence, the Software is not playable.

Like I said, its ignorant entitlement that some gamers think they 'own' the game and therefore should have Access indefinitely. The reality is that you ONLY own a Licence and that Licence can be revoked by the Devs at anytime - break their Terms of Service and you can lose your licence - cheating or using inappropriate language can result in bans, temporary or permanent blocking your Access.

They won't stop making games, but then I can't see them being 'forced' to include some 'end of life' thing that keeps the game 'alive'. Offline Bots is not the SAME game/experience at all and team games (like Horde modes) won't work 'offline' and certainly not with AI team mates instead of Humans. Whilst I don't think they'd 'stop' making them entirely - at least not unless entiitled gamers aren't 'happy' with just being able to load up the game and wander around the map on their own - no 'game-play', no XP, just to 'comply' with keeping it accessible..

The point is the game is OWNED by the Creator and its their RIGHT as creator, as owner to decide if they want games to have an END, not be forced to add something (which does cost and take time to add in on top of developing the game as they want) just because some entitled gamers think that games shouldn't 'end'. It's their product, not yours, their creation, their legal property by LAW hence you can get into trouble or lose your licence by breaking Terms of Service - something you AGREED to when you accepted the ToS before you even played.

They won't stop making games because they won't have to change, at most I can see the Law forcing them to make it much clearer that you don't OWN the game, that you ONLY purchased a Licence and that Licence can be removed at anytime - so buyer beware!!!

He would leak that certain guns or maps would be coming and whilst he may of been correct about the majority, there would be several additional ones that weren't part of the update.

Apart from 'spoiling' what was coming, he'd also indicated that more content was coming than was delivered so the Community were led to believe they were getting more than they got as well as spoiling the content they did get - a double whammy.

Whatever you think of CoD, I do think that leakers should be silenced and I don't just mean those that leak Call of Duty content. Unless they are whistleblowing bad practices like crunch culture or mistreatment of staff, I think that devs/publishers should have the right to legally block and even prosecute leakers - not only does it spoil the 'official' reveals, it can lead to greater expectation and leave the community 'disappointed' and even angry that 'leaked' content isn't coming.

@Jenkinss Again, you paid for a Licence to use those games whilst they were Active, you don't OWN them. That's always been the case and you also agreed to the terms and conditions of Access - failure to do so can get you banned (indefinitely in some cases) regardless of whether you paid or not. That's all because you don't OWN the games and the Devs/Publishers do.

Social games require Online for Social features to work and with NO servers, NO matchmaking, NO online infrastructure (the Company aren't paying for it anymore if no income is coming in to cover those costs), then the 'Game' is not the Game you bought a Licence to 'play'. Being able to walk around empty maps or even play against Bots for example is NOT what the Game was meant to be, its not the SAME game people spent money to play.

Its that 'entitled' behaviour that is the problem - you think you are entitled to play something that you don't own, that the 'licence' you do own is for a product that has expired. It's like buying a Season ticket to watch your favourite sports team and expecting it to last forever.

Yes some licences don't 'expire' because the Product doesn't - although Publishers/Developers can still remove that 'product' so no more Licences can ever be sold, therefore that game is basically dead. Games like Marvels Spider-Man 2 published by Activision can no longer be purchased so NO-ONE can play it - unless you bought and still own a valid licence and suitable hardware to play it - but they also don't incur any cost.

How do you know how much it would cost to build in some way to keep the game 'alive' in some meaningful capacity that entitled gamers would consider acceptable and why you think Devs/Publishers should even pay anything? But as I said, its their game, their code, their assets, their trademarks/IP's and Copywrited content and you 'paid' for a Licence to play it, not paid for the rights to it, not paid for them to hand it over to the 'Public' or those that maybe paid for a Licence key.

The Laws do protect both the consumer and the company - it will protect their rights as the OWNERS of the game code and all its assets, like they would protect the Artists and/or Publishers of Musicians. I expect that they'd either not make these games if forced to keep them active or 'hand' them over - but what I really expect is that the EU will force Publishers to be a lot clearer in what you are 'paying' for and that you aren't buying a Game, you are paying to access their Software, their game they made and OWN. Whether that impact sales, I don't know, but that's how Games work - you don't buy games, you buy a Licence to access the software ONLY. That game belongs to the Devs/Publisher, its their Property - not yours. You are paying the 'entry' fee to theme park that maybe one day will close....

@Jenkinss And then you don't understand economics and business - no Business will keep something going if its losing them money and if they have spend a LOT of money designing and/or building in some end of life plan, that discourage if not stop Devs from making those games in the first place.

As others have said, even if you can still access the game, even if it's just against AI bots because NO online servers, support, anti-cheat etc exist, that is tokenistic and them using a 'loophole' in the law to avoid consequence. The point of online games is not to play with and/or against Bots. They are 'social' experiences and designed for Social play - either competitively or co-operatively.

The point of some is to 'team' up with friends and play together - whether that is against other Humans or take on challenging modes like Destiny's Raids which are purely PvE only.

You can't replace that Social aspect with 'bots' - just to keep a game 'alive'. Not EVERY game should be kept alive in my opinion. There are numerous games - like Killzone for example, that had its 'online' modes killed and I have NO issue with all the Annual sports releases having their Servers being shut down 'regardless' of how much people may have spent on Cosmetics or DLC map Packs.

You only had Legal Access whilst you had a Legal Licence to access those games - the Game, the worlds they created etc all belong to the Developer/Publisher that created them - it's their 'creation', their 'work', their 'copywrited' material inc their Assets etc. You only have a Licence to Access.

As I said, if Devs/Publishers feel 'forced' to keep games alive, they will either stop making those games or what you can 'play' is so shallow, so pointless that people won't bother accessing anyway.

Publishers/Devs can also issue take downs and block people from using their game code. their assets etc. Just because they can, doesn't make it Legal or ethically right to do so...

A live service game relies on its user base to keep paying to keep it going and a Free to Play game also needs to make back the money that's already been invested.

Games that lose players aren't going to have the user base to 'buy' cosmetics etc to keep the developers employed on making more content to keep the game alive so it makes sense to 'kill' them before they lose much more money.

@Jenkinss If that does become a Law, you just won't get F2P live Service games being released - maybe no Online Multi-player games at all because they aren't going to keep games active that cost them money or can be detrimental to them/their reputation if the game is a 'broken' mess, no working anti-cheat or updates, no safe servers or anything.

Chances are, Devs/Publishers would just choose not to make online games if they are expected to keep them 'alive', costing them more money per day than they get back in revenue or maybe find some loophole, like the game is active, but only if you buy your own server or via LAN because they aren't paying for servers, anti-cheat, ongoing support etc etc. It may not be 'official' shut-down but basically unplayable.

@Fiendish-Beaver Well they will all share the Microsoft OS that Games require in order to communicate with the Hardware but I can see them having a Fixed Spec design specifically so that Devs will provide a 'Optimised' game by default and if you play on any other PC, you may have to tweak the settings to get a consistent performance like a Console.

I can see them licencing Xbox but only for Fixed Spec 'Console' style builds made by Asus for example. Instead of MS maybe making a 'mid-gen' upgraded version, that's now licensed out to a different manufacturer - but it must be a fixed Spec Chip that Devs will optimise and provide a 'XB1X/Series X' like upgrade over the base fixed spec Hardware.

Despite the RoG Ally being a PC, MS are still checking games and verifying them for that spec Hardware - its also a Fixed Spec Handheld so they can provide a default setting that is optimised specifically for that Hardware. Games they (or others) make can use that as say the 'minimum' spec Hardware to consider if they wish to target 60fps for example - knowing that if they can get 60fps on that, then everything else (Series S, Series X etc) can scale up from that.

Of course if you really want to, you could of course buy ANY PC (like you can today) and play EVERY new Xbox game released but may have to tweak the settings to optimise the game specifically for your Hardware and preferences. The difference is that the 'default' is set for their Hardware, not bespoke hardware - pretty much how the situation is today. The ONLY difference is that Devs won't have to port their build to the Xbox Console platform, they can build for PC and just optimise that, provide a default setting specifically for that 'fixed' spec AMD Chip and I doubt the 'Xbox PC' will be built with separate CPU, GPU, RAM etc that can be swapped out like most Gaming PCs and I would expect that 'licensed' Hardware would use that Chip (or the 'X' version - like Xbox Ally and Xbox Ally X, Series S and X etc).

The point is that those 'settings' and fixed spec hardware still provide that consistent Console like experience and Devs a 'fixed' spec to build for, to optimise to - and lets be honest, third party Publishers don't always 'optimise' for the Consoles today as they aren't consistent and drop frame. Series X and PS5 often share the 'same' settings too and/or rely on dynamic resolution scaling to try and maintain a consistent Frame Rate.

Arguably, the weakest PC on the market will be the Handheld and Xbox/MS certainly do consider it as they are checked and verified. If Dell made a 'budget' Xbox, it would likely be using a fixed spec AMD Chip that MS would allow their Xbox brand to be associated with or Dell could just build a cheap PC with MS Windows without the Xbox brand licence anyway...

@Fiendish-Beaver I don't know that they'll stop supplying them that soon after release - but I can see them potentially licencing so other PC manufacturers will make PC Xbox hardware in the future - much like they have done already with the Asus Ally.

They still continue to make 'Surface' hardware so why not make a Surface Xbox for example?

I think the point of them doing their own 'fixed' spec Hardware is more about Devs having that as a guide to target when building their game, whether that's ensuring that it will run smoothly at say 60fps and 4k with med-high settings and that is the 'default' and everything scales up/down from that.

Personally I have NO issue with Microsoft bringing a 25yr old game to Playstation. The majority of Xbox gamers aren't buying a 25yr old game and more likely to play it on Game Pass if they play it all and even Halo fans are likely to play it via Halo:MCC than spend money on it yet again. Point is, Xbox gamers have likely bought it, maybe twice already so maybe won't be willing to spend money on a 25yr old game they can and have played multiple times.

Its not like they are selling a brand new game that's never released before Day and Date. I bet few bought Gears of War yet again - I know I wouldn't having bought the OG 360 version and the XB1 version the remaster and PS5 version is remastered from as I could play them via BC or via Game Pass - MS knows that and so to get any revenue, the only option is to sell on Platforms like Playstation (and/or Switch) - the only Platforms they haven't released those 'old' games on before.

Its not like they are releasing (or should release) the 'next' big main release - certainly not Day 1. These should remain Exclusive if MS wants to sell Hardware and/or Subscriptions, get players into their ecosystem. They can release on PS5 once the sales dry up on their Hardware to extract what revenue they can from those who wouldn't buy their Hardware or Subscribe to Game Pass anyway.

Old games, remastered or just released a year or more later, aren't really hurting Xbox - if people really wanted to play, they'd have bought an Xbox, subbed to Game Pass and/or already played before. These are all on Game Pass, playable via BC and/or been on sale for years so if people wanted to buy an Xbox to play, they'd have done so.

Xbox is not just the Console - yet there are many that still think that it is. Xbox became MS's entire Gaming 'brand' having an established Console with that branding. It gets its name from being a Microsoft Direct X product in a Box a 'DirectX Box' which became 'Xbox'.

I can see that Xbox hardware, as a traditional 'Console' product, may well be over but that doesn't mean that I think Microsoft will no longer have Hardware or pull out of the gaming market. Microsoft have invested heavily in Studios and IP's over the past decade after merging their Console gaming division into their main Microsoft business and Windows - hence Day 1 releases on PC and the 'end' of Exclusives.

Xbox ceased being just their Console and became their entire Gaming brand across PC, Cloud and Console - rebranding their Studios too as Xbox Studios.

That's why I don't believe Xbox will end soon - even if the Traditional Console Hardware ceases. Xbox will still continue across PC and Cloud, Xbox Studios will still continue to make Xbox Games because 'Xbox' is Microsofts Gaming brand.

We all expect MS to make at least 1 more Hardware device as they have planned and openly discussed their Partnership with AMD to supply chips for their hardware. Its 'rumoured' to be more of a PC hybrid than a Taditional console with access to other platforms/storefronts like Steam and Epic - thus not a 'Traditional' Console which has now 'ended' but Microsoft still continues to bring Xbox games to market, Xbox brand continues...

I''m in the middle - not optimistic, but not pessimistic either. MS has a LOT of Studios and IP's and if they use them by making great games, their future will be OK - gamers will play them which will ensure MS's future is 'successful'.

I don't know that ALL aspects will be successful, particularly Hardware and/or the future of their 'Console' Library. I don't really want 'AI' involved bringing my old Library forward to PC's for example or making slop that 'humans' allow into their Games.

As a Gamer first and foremost, MS has a Strong Portfoliio of IP's and Studios so their future should be secure too - but I don't know that the leadership will handle those well and may 'force' Studio's to cut corners and in doing so, allow slop to ruin them...

@Cakefish

I guess the difference will be that the hardware is designed in-house and with OS-level modifications to have a controller friendly UI, as opposed to any other bog standard PC.

That's basically what the RoG Xbox Ally's are - Not 'solely' designed in-house as such as its merged the Asus RoG Ally's with an Xbox Controller - but to be honest with you, if MS were to build their own Handheld, fully themselves, it would basically be the same design - a screen inserted between both sides of an Xbox Controller. Internally, I doubt it would be much different - an AMD Chip, RAM & Solid State Storage.

The booting Direct to Xbox FSE and work MS has done to optimise Windows for Handheld Gaming also includes making that UI controller friendly as that was a big issue with the Windows 'Desktop' on the first wave of PC Handhelds and having to use those little 'touchscreen' keyboards wasn't the easist.

So whilst its not 'technically' a first party Hardware because its made in Partnership with Asus (who don't make Games to sell the Hardware) who obviously can't use MS's Xbox logo/button and Controller design. They also rely on MS to provide the OS and worked with MS based on Feedback they'd received on their 'first' Handhelds.

As I said, technically games like Crackdown, Gears of War and even Flight Sim are NOT made by a First Party/Microsoft owned Studio in the same way this 'Hardware' has MS owned branding, Custom MS OS and even an Xbox Button (something no other Handheld PC has). Its part of their Hardware line-up much like those games were part of their Software line-up so whilst technically 'not' a first Party hardware as it wasn't made/assembled by MS, its still very much a MS product.

I believe that 'other' Handhelds, like MSi's and Lenovo's, can now install the Same Custom Windows OS so they too can boot to the Xbox FSE. That too makes it more 'Xbox' as you are booting directly into the Xbox ecosystem, not the full Windows. That has a MS UI designed for Controller Navigation and locked to the MS store - yes you can play Steam Games (as long as you've installed them) but the store tab is MS ONLY. To browse, buy or even install Steam games so they'll show up in the 'Xbox' FSE, you have to load up the Steam App.

Point is, the OS is custom, Controller Friendly and is designed to keep you in the Microsoft 'Xbox' Ecosystem. Unlike the Console though, you can access 3rd Party Apps and even load up the full MS Windows too if you want but Hardware is pretty much useless these days without an OS and Gaming Hardware is very generic, its really just the OS, which Games communicate with that separates them

@Cakefish I'm agreeing that its not quite First party in that its fully made and assembled by Microsoft - but that its STILL an Xbox abnd part of the Xbox Family.

Its not quite the same as your iPhone or iPad as they weren't built in partnership with Microsoft, don't have the 'Xbox' branding/License and certainly don't come with a Microsoft OS and run their Games Natively. Microsoft also isn't 'passive' and actually is verifying games for the Hardware so buyers will know if they are optimised for their Handheld.

Just because they didn't make the Hardware, its their OS and part of their Hardware line-up. Its like Flight Sim - That's not made by a First Party Studio yet its still part of the Xbox Library if you want to be technically correct (and Pedantic about who made something). It's certainly not '3rd Party' and certainly not some 'stream' only Android/iOS powered device that can't run Xbox games natively.

The fact is both the Console and the Handheld have a Microsoft OS which also controls the Hardward and runs Xbox Games natively so they are both Microsoft based products. Microsoft is building their Games for their OS's.

Cloud games run on a MS OS too and you use a Microsoft owned App to 'stream' them to whatever device you can access their App from.

The most important aspect is the OS. Sony's games are built to use Sony's OS to utilise whatever 'Hardware' its on - just like Windows games rely on Windows to utilise the PC hardware (why SteamDeck has a ProtonLayer to simulate Windows and won't run games that require Windows TPS Security). Point is, the OS is the 'important' part of ANY Hardware and its Microsofts OS at the heart of both the Console and Handheld.

Its not quite 'First Party' in the sense that Asus built it having the factory and tooling in place to do so as well, but its still part of the Microsoft Family of Hardware, still has a Microsoft OS and Xbox Controller feel/layout.

@Cakefish Made in Partnership with Microsoft and running a Microsoft OS. It's basically using Microsoft's Controller design as part of the 'hardware'.

A Console is basically assembled by Microsoft but has a Chip by AMD at its core. The various components are made by various other Companies - the SSD, the Disc Drive, the RAM chips, the Wifi component etc - none of that is 'made' by Microsoft.

The Xbox Ally has Xbox branding and made under licence - the next Xbox too could be made by Asus under Licence.

Xbox isn't 'just' the Console Hardware - its the ENTIRE Gaming division and includes PC and Cloud. PC and Console hardware both have a CPU, GPU and RAM and both run games from its Internal Storage, both also have Microsoft OS's. MS could have made the Hardware (maybe could do under their 'Surface' PC line for example) using tthe same AMD Z2E chip, same quantity of RAM and Storage, even use the same Screen and Windows OS and sell that as an 'Xbox' handheld - but instead licenced that out to Asus...

The 'Console' is only 1 part of the Microsoft Gaming Ecosystem and Hardware is pretty much universal - its the OS that really makes the Hardware and both PC and Series hardware has Microsoft OS at its heart. Sony has Sony's OS despite it too having a CPU, GPU, RAM etc that if you 'could' install an MS OS (like Windows) would still play games.

I'd say that the Asus RoG Xbox Ally's are NOT 1st Party Hardware but they are still part of the Xbox family, the Xbox ecosystem - its just not 'locked' solely to Microsoft so have access to 3rd Party Apps like Steam or Epic, like you do on any other Microsoft Windows PC!

In such a dynamic industry, plans are always Subject to Change regardless. It makes no difference what they could say today, tomorrows situation/circumstance will force plans to change.

It may not be their own making, take the RAM shortages for example or the Pandemic a few years back, those situations forced 'changes' to Plans made. The Pandemic for example would have affected the plans around release schedules, the events (like E3) etc and maybe the RAM shortage has changed plans over Hardware and/or Pricing.

You cannot expect something to remain 'true' indefinitely so what maybe was true for the situation/circumstances yesterday could be different today and very different tomorrow. In the easiest way, they can 'plan' to release a game in June, and yesterday, everything was still on course to release in June, but then something happens today that now causes them to change their plans, change what was stated and now plan to release in say September, but tomorrow they have to change their plans again due to something else impacting on the Plan.

As for Exclusives, they could say that 'some' will be Exclusive (others won't like Minecraft, CoD or Doom for example) but then that doesn't sell enough Consoles or Subs so they have to release this on other platforms or risk losing so much money, risk closing Studios and/or selling IP's just to break even etc.

In a very Dynamic industry, future plans will ALWAYS be subject to change. Companies will 'try' and be reactive, although not easy with such long development schedules and changing trends - just ask Sony who went 'all-in' on Live Service a few years - that was their 'Plan', that's what they communicated they would be delivering yet those plans changed.

Xbox 'Console' as a separate MS Platform from 'Windows PC' may already be dead - the next may well be a fixed spec Windows PC in a Console like box designed to sit under a TV and be used primarily with a Controller - but its still a Windows PC and plays ALL Windows PC games (inc those sold by Steam or Epic) and so Devs don't need to port to yet another platform - they can just build their PC version and the default settings are 'optimised' for the fixed spec of the Xbox PC for simplicity. It would be better and cheaper for Devs - inc MS who currently have to build every game for multiple platforms - even if 'Exclusive' to just their own Ecosystem - adding more cost and time to its development.

None of their 'big' IPs - like Gears or Halo ever need to release on PS Day 1 - even if the older titles are remastered and do release Simultaneously. Those OLD games are not selling Hardware or Subscriptions and a LOT of Xbox gamers aren't buying yet another 'remake' so why not sell EVERYWHERE day 1 to cover costs and bring in Revenue that keeps Xbox as one of the biggest Games publishers in the world, ahead of Sony and Nintendo, as a rival to TenCent...

@kmtrain83 That isn't capitalism - capitalism is the system of Exclusives and forcing consumers to buy their Products/services or 'miss out' entirely, locking them into that 1 platform/ecosystem so that Company can 'exploit' the Consumer, have a monopoly in its store etc.

I grew up in the 70's - when every console would have its Pac-man or variation on Space Invaders. I was playing Donkey Kong on a BBC Micro B before Sega or Nintendo 'Consoles' existed. During the rise of Sega and Nintendo, I was too old for a 'kids' gaming device, Computers (Sinclair, Commodore, Amstrad etc) was more for teens/adults. Playstation made Consoles 'acceptable' for teens and young Adults whilst Nintendo/Sega were still seen as being for the 'young' kids.

I know that Sega and Nintendo basically started that Capitalistic way of Games in order to get you to buy 'their' hardware and then you are locked in to their Hardware. You could only buy/play the games Nintendo or Sega made, the only games they would allow and Nintendo would censor some things - like Mortal Kombat for example.

Its capitalist to have Exclusives to make you buy their Hardware so you then have to buy their Subs to unlock Content/Features, have a Monopoly Storefront etc for their 'Profit' over Consumer choice/freedom, control what Consumers can 'buy/play/see' on their Hardware...

I have NO issue with those Publishers releasing their games on other Platforms to SELL, I have more issue when they choose not to so Gamers/consumers have no choice but to buy their Hardware or miss out entirely.

@kmtrain83 That just means you have a preference - which may well be the 'ease' of which you can play a Nintendo game on Nintendo Hardware compared to how easy it is to play it on a PC via 'other means'.

I'm more for giving gamers the freedom to choose. I think it would be far better if EVERY gamer had the option to play a game like Tears of the Kingdom on whatever Hardware they would prefer to play it on legally, freedom to use whatever hardware they want/have using whatever control method they prefer etc. If they want to play on a 'Sony' Playstation with a Sony Controller, that should be an option.

I'd much prefer a world where you can buy ANY game for whatever Hardware you prefer to play that game on and you bought Hardware because it suited your preference, budget etc - not because it was the ONLY option to play that game. You should buy hardware because of its Unique Selling Point (such as its a Handheld that docks to a TV, the UI, the Services, the Controller, the aesthetics, the Specs etc) and then not 'miss out' on games because all games are multi-platform.

If you 'prefer' to play Tears of the Kingdom on a Hybrid Handheld and that's Nintendo's USP, that's your choice, your preference but someone else may prefer or want to play on their Xbox or Playstation, don't want to have to buy a Switch just for that game so miss out on playing it because they aren't willing to spend that much money just to play that 1 game.

Unless you are doing something 'illegal', which I assume playing Tears of the Kingdom without purchasing a Valid/legal licence to play on PC would likely be, then whatever 'choice' you made, where ever your 'preference' to play lies would never make you the 'bad' guy.

@Doomcrow And not one of those quotes are saying Games don't sell Consoles.

If Starfield had been an 11/10, Playstation gamers aren't trading in their PS5 to jump to Xbox, aren't selling their entire library of Playstation games (inc their PS4 games), aren't losing all those Digital games they can't trade, leaving their Friends, their Trophies and all that digital history they now have to start from scratch on Xbox because of 1 game.

That's also the point he was making with the other quotes you mention. People have history and accumulated a lot of Digital Content. They also have friends and trophies going back generations now that gamers aren't going to throw away just because Microsoft are now making 'more' games thanks to the acquisition of Bethesda.

That 'digital' history is going to outweigh anything that Microsoft does. They aren't throwing away generations worth of history and that includes all the Friends they've made, Trophies they've earned, all the Digital games (inc the 'Free PS+' games) they've accumulated etc to 'start' fresh and have to start building up their own Digital libraries, Achievements etc on a new platform.

It doesn't matter what Microsoft does, they aren't suddenly going to catch up to Playstation or Switch numbers in Console sales. Doesn't matter if EVERY game they release is an 11/10, they'll never be able to replace all that History and libraries the other Consoles have built up over the decades. Sony still has Spider-Man, Bloodborne, Uncharted, Last of Us, God of War etc so New gamers will still buy Playstation over Xbox because they have more history, and Nintendo has even more - which is why Xbox can't 'out console' those.

None of that states that Games don't sell Consoles - at best its saying that their games won't suddenly see the Xbox Hardware selling so many units that they'll not only catch up with Sony/Nintendo Hardware sales figures but overtake them, that their games won't suddenly see sales of Sony/Nintendo Hardware 'stop' as their gamers trade them in to buy Xbox hardware.

Its 'obvious' really but then if you cherry pick some quotes and misuse them for your own agenda, to suit your own argument rather than that of the person/company who said them, that's incredibly unfair - especially as those aren't here to correct your misinformation...

@kmtrain83 The reason I bought ANY Console was because it had Games I really wanted to play and had little/no choice but to buy that hardware or miss out.

If Halo: CE was not 'exclusive' on the OG Xbox, I don't know that I'd have bought an Xbox. I left PC gaming when gaes like SM64, ISS64 etc were only on N64 and on a device that cost less than a decent 3D Graphics card that would be required to play '3D' games. It was 'exclusives' and the fact that they were releasing on relatively cheap hardware that made me buy those Consoles but it ALWAYS annoyed me that I had to buy several Consoles just to play the few 'exclusives' that released every year that appealed - the Majority of games were multi-platform.

That became even more of an annoyance when you had to pay a Subscription fee to unlock the full range of games and modes offered. I had no interest in 'Gold' during the OG Xbox era, but the 360 era was when Online Social gaming really took off and it became 'essential' and now there are some games you can't play at all - even Solo/Single Player modes - without a Sub. Owning multiple Consoles, each requiring a Sub adds up. Buying a PS5 and Series X, paying for both PS+ Essential and Game Pass Core for maybe a dozen or so 'Exclusives' is ridiculous. The money I've spent on Hardware and the Sub fees over 5yrs+ is more than a high end gaming PC would have cost and PC's have a significantly higher Library as well as offer better Graphics/Performance than a Console can. Consoles aren't that cheap anymore. My £2k PC wouldn't play 'Doom' or Tomb Raider without buying a 3D Graphics Card so I switched to Consoles as they cost less than £300. Now a Console priced PC can play the latest games at console like specs with a bigger library and Online Social Gaming isn't locked behind a sub paywall.

I don't care about Hardware - I'd rather buy a single device that enables me to play EVERY new release. PC's also let me play with a Controller too these days and with more storefronts, no monopolies on digital purchases. The ONLY point of Exclusives is to force the gamer to buy that Hardware, lock them into buying from that 1 storefront and paying a Sub fee for all the Content/features.

Xbox Console hasn't had 'Exclusives' for a decade - so PC Gamers don't need or want to buy weaker hardware for the 'few' Xbox games they maybe bought an Xbox for in the past and the Casual gamer may not need to buy hardware at all, happy to play via cloud on their XB1 (or other existing hardware/devices) so the Console isn't that 'popular' compared to Consoles that are using Exclusives to make you buy that hardware specifically.

I've never cared about the brand on the box, I've only cared about the Games and its the Games (like Halo, Gears, Fable, Forza etc) that made me buy an Xbox Console, not the Hardware - same with Nintendo or Sony Hardware too. Exclusives stop Hardware from 'competing' like different brands of TVs, Mobile Phones, Bluray Players etc...

Games are what matter most to Gamers - get that right and Gamers will come to you. If you churn out 'slop' whether AI or Human created, you'll lose whatever trust and gamers you had. That also goes for all the IP's owned by MS - they may well be a strength now, but they could easily destroy their reputation and lose their Loyal fanbase if they don't treat them with the respect they deserve.

If they want to have a successful gaming business, then they need to ensure that their games are not 'slop', that they are games that gamers want to play and that the games are complete, well made and don't try and milk the gamer for every penny they have.

I personally don't care if AI is used in some capacity in the development of games and 'AI Slop' in a game in my opinion is a Human failure as a Human decided to use that 'slop' in their game. Its a tool, not a 'developer' - a human has to use that tool and a human also decides to put AI (or Human) Slop in their game. If a game has any 'Slop', that's down to a Human, down to the Human developer that put that slop in their game, didn't check it to see if it was of the standard required/expected regardless of who made it...

@GamerScore200K @Globo Couldn't agree more with @Globo - the reason we still have Xbox today is because of Phil Spencers management because after Don Mattrick, Microsoft were very very close to pulling out of the Gaming business altogether. If Phil 'failed', Xbox would have died.

However, under Phil Spencer, they've massively increased their Studio count and IP portfolio, made Backwards Compatibility an 'industry' Standard we all now expect (don't forget the XB1 and PS4 both launched with NO BC) and made Xbox available basically 'everywhere' - whether you 'like' that or not. The only gaming Hardware its not 'readily' available on is Sony and Nintendo hardware - but its available on Every PC (not just gaming ones), Mobile and even some TV's etc. You can even play games like Starfield or Indiana Jones on your old XB1 consoles so don't need to upgrade. Xbox is now significantly bigger, with significantly more staff employed in just making games and pushed Microsoft to be one of the 'biggest' Gaming companies in the world - bigger than Sony and Nintendo.

Of course if you only want to focus on 'Console' Hardware, then of course Xbox isn't as popular as Sony or Nintendo Hardware, but then so many Gamers don't 'need' to buy the Console because they access Xbox on PC where they can play at much higher Graphic settings and/or frame rates - get the 'best' version (better than PS5 Pro too could ever offer) and never have to pay for the ability to play online with Friends and Family. They aren't spending money on 'unnecessary' hardware or sub fees when they have a gaming PC.

Xbox is not just the Console, its the entire Microsoft Gaming division which includes PC and Cloud too. That's also why they were able to buy Bethesda, ABK and all those Studios since 2018 as well as added Mojang under his management. Yes some haven't quite worked out and with the industry in crisis as it has been, some have disappeared (but that's happened with basically every Publisher as Gamers aren't spending the money on Games so haven't got the revenue coming in but costs keep rising - Sony recently shut Bluepoint having closed quite a few studios themselves over the past few years as well)

Point is, if you look at Xbox as a whole, not just a 'small' fraction, Xbox under Phil has grown massively. Their games are generally well received and winning awards - FH5 is one of the best selling games and one of the most popular, it also won best Racing Game too, Indiana Jones and Doom were both nominated and for some people, their game of the year. South of Midnight won awards too and many received great reviews leading to an 80+ Metacritic Score - 8/10 is a Great Game score btw!!!

@kmtrain83 No doubt it will be 'interesting' but its not the first and won't be the last time we see managerial changes. Yes Phil Spencer was in charge for quite some time, but MS and Xbox has had a few changes over the years.

MS has the strongest Portfolio of IP's in their history and also the most Studios and employees they've ever had in the gaming. As has been said, Microsoft Flight Simulator is older than Xbox - they have more years making games than they have gaming hardware. Whilst technology is always advancing, its Games that matter, Games that will sell Hardware (if they continue to make their own - they could licence 3rd Party PC builders to make 'console' styled fixed spec PC Hardware) and Games that will make or break their Gaming division - although selling their games and services (inc Game Pass) on as many Platforms as possible is likely to be more successful than limiting everything to a single Hardware device they alone built.

The more games they sell, the more gamers they have engaging with their products, the more eyes they have in their Games stores, the more revenue they can make, the more successful their gaming division will be. Games are what Gamers want and Gamers will buy and go where the Games they want to play are. MS have strong IPs - much stronger than when they launched ANY of their previous Consoles...

@datamonkey If you are 'pushed' that usually means being paid to leave as soon as possible - taking voluntary redundancy or retirement is where you get 'payouts' for the years of service. Unless they offered her voluntary redundancy, I doubt she'd have been in line for a payout.

@kmtrain83 the 'title' may have changed but the fact is that someone else is being 'promoted' as a replacement to the retiring Phil Spencer instead of Sarah - it doesn't matter what the job title is, they've still promoted Asha into the role that everyone expected Sarah to have taken.

The fact is, everyone thought that Sarah would be the natural successor to Phil and now he is retiring, they've replaced him with Asha - either because Sarah herself has chosen to leave or because they didn't feel Sarah was 'right' for that job and therefore Sarah felt compelled to leave.

I wouldn't say it indicates she was 'pushed' but maybe does indicate that she thought she would get Promoted and when it was clear she wasn't, she decided to leave herself believing its the 'right time' to take the next step.

Nothing indicates she was pushed, having decided to remain on to help with the transition. I think if she had been pushed, she'd have left pretty quickly and certainly wouldn't stay around in any capacity.

She may not have been 'happy' to have missed out on Promotion, but it doesn't seem like she was pushed either. She may believe she was 'ready' for that Challenge and therefore feels that she has to move to get that, doesn't want to remain for another 'decade' or so waiting for another opportunity to arise to step-up another rung of the corporate ladder...

The ONLY thing I care about are the games. I bought an OG Xbox because it was the only place to play Halo and bought subsequent Xbox hardware because it offered the Games I wanted to play and was 'affordable' - same reason I bought Playstations and various Nintendo Consoles.

I couldn't care less if MS doesn't make another Console, as long as I can still play their games, their IP's etc - as long as their Games/IP's remain worth playing that is.

As a 'gamer', the games matter, not the Hardware, not the 'brand' on the hardware. I'd prefer to buy any 'Hardware' and be able to play ALL games, regardless of who published it or what Studio made it. As long as MS focus on the Games first and foremost, they'll have a successful future because gamers will spend their money and time in their products where ever they are playable, where ever they release.

MS has been on a 'decent' run with their releases in recent years. After 2022 when we basically had the most disappointing year for releases, we have seen numerous big releases every year. Gone is the 'MS has no games' meme and its Games that Gamers want, Games that will attract gamers to spend money, Games that will determine if they are successful in the future or not...

To me, that statement is pretty much staying on track with the direction and plans we all expected from MS before this Managerial change. She mentions that Gamers will continue to play across multiple devices and not within the 'limits' of a Single piece of Hardware - and that they want Developers to 'build once' which would indicate they perhaps are going the PC - PC Hybrid format so devs can build for Windows without having to port/build a Console specific version too.

At the end of the Day, Games matter the most and people will go where the games are. The Hardware is more just a means to play the games you want. I expect many MS games will be released on Playstation as well as be playable on many divices thanks to Cloud and of course, PC's too so if they do make their own Hardware, I doubt it will sell like the 360, keep up with the PS6 because Gamers may well choose to play on PC, Cloud or Playstation instead. For MS, you are still engaging with their Product, their Game wherever you choose to play, but anyone expecting MS to make a 'Console' with 'Exclusives' to sell Hardware (like Sony and Nintendo do - and that includes excluding the PC so PC gamers have a reason to buy the Console) will be disappointed.

From my perspective, I care about the Games, many of the IP's that MS owns and not about the 'box' required to play them. As long as I can play the Games I want, when I want and preferably 'Where' I want - that's all that matters. I don't care if they 'screw-up' with the Hardware - I just play on PC's - but as long as they don't screw up the Games and IP's they have, that's all I really care about....

Part of the issue for me was that it felt incredibly dated and looked that way too - the animations, the interactions etc. It looked like they'd taken Fallout 3 and just changed the setting, the characters and clothing style etc but kept the Animations, the structure etc. The fact that it takes place on MANY planets is what killed this for me despite the Combat being improved from the Fallout games.

With Fallout and everything being on one big Open map, it meant I would make my way to an Objective and stumble on other missions/side quests etc but with Starfield sending you to different Planets, wandering and discovery got replaced by Fast Travel and nothing is more tedious and annoying than getting little side missions that send you to different corners of the galaxy to deliver/pick up something only to be sent back to the original planet straight after to 'speak' to the Mission giver and claim rewards. I much prefer EVERYTHING to be possible without having to go through the Tedium of jumping to your ship, then jumping to a planet, do a simple quest only to have to return back to the planet you were on.

The interactions, animations etc too all looked like they were cut/pasted from Fallout which 20 years ago was cutting edge, but with modern RPG's doing interactions, lip synch animations, mission/game structure etc so much better, I hoped Bethesda would have Evolved with the industry, but it seemed like they had success with F3 and been copying that format/style ever since with minor upgrades to polygon counts and increased procedural generated environmental details.

To me, Bethesda need to move to a new Engine and/or evolve their RPG formula as it feels very Stale and dated to me...

I'm somewhere between Not planning to buy it, but you never know and Definitely Not, No interest at all.

GTA4 has basically put me off the Franchise - seemingly forever and I have absolutely zero interest in GTAO. Therefore its the single player campaign that has to convince me its worth buying and better graphics isn't going to convince me to purchase.

GTAv didn't convince me to purchase (I feel like I am the only one, if not 1 of a select few) despite releasing on three Gens of Hardware and a few sales so I doubt that GTA6 will convince me at all, but there is that very small chance we get a 'blue moon'' and all the stars align in a specific way that I do end up buying it at some point - but it won't be at Launch as NO game is worth the Launch Price to me...

Glad I picked up mine at launch...

@Gemini53 But 7th Gen Hardware is no longer Manufactured so basically obsolete and irrelevant for modern games. That doesn't change the fact that for the past 2 generations of Consoles, that Physical Media is nothing but a Distribution device so NO GAMES RUN FROM DISC.

yes you may still own or be able to buy some old hardware and games no longer in print that will run from the Disc, but that is ancient history in gaming terms. For games, like this or the Ubisoft Rayman one, they don't and won't run from Disc regardless - they'll need downloading and installation.

You can of course go back to obsolete Hardware and games - both of which are no longer manufactured so relying on used or at best, unsold items that have been hanging around a warehouse for years. But I don't really consider products that are no longer being made (Hardware or games) as being 'relevant' today - other than for Historical records.

Games released on Last Gen (even though that Hardware is no longer manufactured so not relevant now) and Current Gen both require Downloading and installation so for the past decade, all games released required downloading from a delivery system - whether Physical or Internet and so Physical became (and still is) just a Delivery method as NO GAME RUNS FROM DISC anymore.

@Gemini53 Well then you don't need an Xbox Console at all as you already have Xbox on your PC!!! The whole point of MS joining the Console market was to bring PC games to the mass market with 'affordable' hardware and now PC's can be as affordable as a Console - especially if you look at the 'premium' end of the Console Market.

Therefore, the sole purpose of MS joining the Console market is 'obsolete' - they have an 'entry' tier level with their Cloud Streaming option on whatever hardware you already have - inc last and current gen Consoles so don't even need to upgrade or miss out on games.

This is why its more likely that whatever Hardware comes next, whether its Microsoft built or not, it will have access to other Storefronts - like Steam, Epic etc. The EU laws have concerns about these Companies having a monopoly storefront - which they 'just about' get away with due to having a Physical Disc Drive which gives consumers a bit of choice and competition on pricing - but an ALL-Digital device without access to other Storefronts could be an issue and Physical is JUST a delivery system - NO GAME RUNS FROM DISC!!!

The ONLY people able to buy Physical on Xbox are those that bought the Series X - which is fewer than those that bought the Series S. Not only is the Series X likely to have the 'smallest' numbers of hardware that could buy this game, of those, the majority would likely not be buying this game anyway - I doubt it will sell more than a few million Globally across all platforms in the first few months or so and those that do buy are much more likely to buy digitally these days.

So you have the least amount of Hardware, the least popular media in physical and a game that's not likely to be a 'massive' seller that the cost of manufacturing and distributing Physical media would be more likely to lose money.

Physical is just a distribution method as games don't run from Physical media and haven't done since the 360 era. Every game must be downloaded and installed onto the SSD to actually run - the only reason you have to insert the disc is to confirm you still own a Valid Licence to access the Game stored and running on your SSD. Whether you choose to download from Disc or Internet, you still have to wait for it to be installed and updated (via Internet) to be able to play it anyway. I wouldn't call it Physical 'Media' when unlike CDs, Vinyl, Blurays etc, the game doesn't run/play from that media...