BAMozzy

Not enough to make me want to resubscribe to Ultimate just to play Day 1.

Maybe in a decade or two these will get remastered and released on other platforms - if other Hardware platforms still exist then...

I couldn't care less about 'Exclusives' and think ALL games should be on ALL platforms so gamers get to enjoy the Games they want to play on the Hardware they 'prefer' to play on, not be forced to buy boxes for a a couple of games a year you can't play on whatever Hardware you prefer to play all the other releases on, the one with the features, the UI or controller and layout you prefer!

I couldn't care less whether they are 'Exclusive' or not, all that matters to me is that I can play them on the Hardware I want to play them on and actually think its better that ALL gamers get to play the games they want on the Hardware they prefer to game on rather than be forced to buy Hardware they don't really want just to play a 'few' games or miss out on them.

For 'Xbox' fans, they can play the game Day 1 with their Game Pass Subscription whilst others have to pay the 'high' charge. I will never understand why some get really angry that others they don't know get to play and enjoy the 'SAME' games they can or feel they 'need' exclusives to justify their Hardware choice!

You can still have Exclusives to 'sell' your Platform, sell your Subscriptions etc but you can ALSO release games on ALL platforms to reach ALL gamers.

That may sound like a Contradiction, but you can release ALL your Single Player games for example on your own platform to sell the Hardware and once that Game is no longer selling Hardware, release it on other Platforms to maximise reach. Those that wanted to play it Day 1 or would want to play on your Platform would have bought it.

Any that would rather miss out or happily wait years for it to come to their platform, their preferred place to play can aren't buying your Platform just to play that game so its NOT selling Hardware anyway and they wouldn't get any revenue from a fairly large chunk of gamers who 'prefer' and/or ONLY play on a different platform.

For example, if you ONLY play on Xbox/PC or that is your preferred platform of choice, you are unlikely to buy a Playstation for a Game or two - especially not as the price of Hardware and basic Sub to unlock all content/features (PS+ Essential for Online/social gaming, cloud saves etc) is so expensive these days. You'd either 'miss out' entirely or wait until Sony decides to release on PC. It may not be worth spending £500+ on Hardware for 1 or 2 games at most a year as ALL the other games are releasing on your Platform day 1 anyway.

Its not like the 360/PS3 era when Consoles were £300 or less and there were 4 or more Exclusives a year because devs weren't taking 5yrs to make a Game. Naughty Dog released 3 Uncharted games and Last of Us on PS3 but only 1 Uncharted (and a Standalone expansion to it) and Last us Pt 2 since the PS4 released (not counting the ports of old games they'd already made and released).

Multiplayer - like CoD, Minecraft are better with friends, are better with full lobbies, are better with cross-play and not splitting their fanbase between platform choices. If you are CoD fan, you should be able to play with other CoD fans, be in the same lobbies etc - you all share the same passion for that game.

Point is, If you are a Playstation gamer, you maybe won't buy an Xbox just to play a 'few' Exclusives so no Revenue and far less 'reach' for their Games. You can still make them 'exclusive' for a year or so to sell Hardware for those that 'need' exclusives to justify their Hardware purchasing decision - but still release them to maximise reach and revenue at a later date, when the game is no longer selling on their platform, no longer selling hardware either as their newer releases are doing that...

Considering the games that do run on a Series S, I do think it has more to do with the Developer and their lack of planning, lack of proper management of their project and may even reflect more on the Devs themselves.

These games aren't doing thing that 'other' games, other engines, other developers haven't implemented, aren't pushing Graphics, physics, mechanics etc beyond other games, not relying on extremely expensive and/or complex methods (like Path tracing with multiple bounces) instead of traditional methods. Animation, Audio etc aren't generations ahead of other games that run on last gen hardware.

It seems that the devs either didn't really plan or manage their development well, didn't optimise or design efficiently which now needs more attention and time. Its not as if these games are doing 'more' than other games that run well on a Series S, its more that it shows up those devs that didn't plan well, didn't make their game 'optimally' so it would scale 'down' - using 'power' to push through their sub-optimal coding.

The Games should scale down as they aren't trying to hit the same 4k graphical presentation and the CPU isn't as scaled down as the GPU/RAM so the Brains (CPU) isn't scaled down like the 'Graphics' are (or should be).

2 days 'early' access that will be 'worthless' to ANYONE after that date or anyone who isn't interested in pre-ordering or playing it 2 days before it goes on sale to EVERYONE. Games are NEVER at their best on release day, let alone 2 days earlier. Bugs always exist and patches will come, let alone additional content/features added post launch. Early players are Play-testers to find the bugs/glitches/issues in the 'real' world and/or with thousands/millions of 'real' players rather than a handful in controlled environment.

Play Anywhere will still benefit Xbox/PC gamers for months after it releases and when the game is cheap on sale. A few days early access is NO incentive to buy after its general release day and is a 'free' way to encourage pre-orders. The game is ready to release and often released to reviewers so its no 'cost' to the Publisher and they may 'gain' a few extra pre-orders - therefore a no-cost to publisher/dev offer to incentivise pre-ordering. Its not like they had to pay to make something exclusively for those who pre-order.

Physical is JUST a delivery system and has been for the past two generations of hardware. Since the XB1 (and PS4) era, ALL games have required installation to the internal storage to run - especially now on the Series/PS5 generation where SSD's are REQUIRED for a game to run. The ONLY reason you have to put a disc in the Hardware is to either Download the game OR prove you still own a Valid licence to access the game.

The disc is basically a coaster with a licence on it, just an 'access' key that is required to unlock the Game stored and runs on your Hardware. Discs and Disc drives are 'useless' for Gaming as they have limited Capacity and are far too slow to run Games. Gone are the days when you could buy a game, but the media in the Hardware and begin playing immediately. Now you have to wait hours for the game to download and install regardless of whether you bought from Disc or not.

The ONLY real advantage of Discs is that you can sell, loan or pass on that Licence to someone else, trade it in for something different, give it to your friends/family etc. Maybe in 30yrs time or so,you might be able to 're-download' the game and play on OG hardware after its been switched off from Internet Access - but those that bought Digital can probably download and play on modern hardware via Backwards Compatibility

Chances are, the Disc Drive and Discs will become 'obsolete' soon as they are an added expense, discs can't fit the content on it and can't play games as the read speeds, the data transfer speed is far too slow for 'modern' gaming. A £30 disc drive added at point of manufacture adds £100 at point of Purchase just so Gamers can 'sell' their Licences if they choose - which is a valid reason to buy Physical in my opinion but the disc itself is just a delivery system to get the 'game' on your Hardware (like the internet is) and the ONLY reason you have to keep putting the disc in 'every' time you want to play is to 'unlock' the software, to prove you still own that piece of Plastic, that you haven't sold, traded, loaned, lost or damaged it. The game is installed and running on your hardware!

Sony would likely feel that their hardware would not be 'competitive', that their fans woukd abandon their ecosystem because Sony wouldn't have any 'unique' games but as PC and Xbox both have a Microsoft OS and as such, would have 'ALL' Xbox games as well as the 1000's of games exclusively available to play on PC, their own hardware would be 'obsolete'.

Personally, I think Hardware should sell on Price, Specs, Aesthetic, OS/UI, Controller layout/features etc and Games/Content should be available to ALL gamers. If gamers prefer Sony's OS/UI or MS's Controller, they shouldn't miss out on Games or be forced to buy multiple devices.

Consoles these days aren't 'cheap' mass market boxes and cost as much as a gaming PC with far less Games in their Library. Also Games are taking far longer to develop so you see far fewer 1st Party releases. Naughty Dog released Uncharted 1-3 and LoU on PS3 but haven't released that many 'new' games in the past decade. SuckerPunch, Guerilla etc are releasing a game every 5+ yrs. So instead of paying under £300 for hardware and getting 5 or 6 exclusives a year, its now £600+ for 1 or 2 games ONLY on that hardware - and you still have to spend money on a Sub fee to play the games you've spent £70+ to play because they yrequire online connectivity to run. It ends up costing over £1k for Hardware and PS+/GPC for 6+ yrs and if you stop paying the sub fee, you can't play the games you bought to play on that hardware...

Sony may think I'll buy their Console just because they have half a dozen games I can't play on PC, but I'm not paying that much for just an Exclusives 'box' when the PC has '100's' of games that probably have a similar Game-play loop, similar genre and mechanics.

I still haven't played much of FH5 and still have all the others to play IF I want to play a Forza Horizon game so I won't be buying early access and doubt I'll bother playing FH6 until its cheap on sale. I don't think they've really addressed the 'issues' I have with the series which over 5 games now have grated and put me off.

I'm sure its a superb Forza Horizon game but the 'festival aspect, the dialogue and very limited Radio/music choice (I only tolerated 1 music station and that got very repetitive quickly) and repetition of activities and races, things I can do on previous games - I don't need to spend money to get the exact same experience etc just means I won't be rushing to play this. Its not really what I want to play and can play FH1-5 if I did anyway.

Pre-ordered as it has Play Anywhere and I had a gift voucher to use up - its the only game releasing soon I was interested in and if I didn't use my voucher, I'd lose it soon.

I was also surprised that it is the 'deluxe' edition and cheaper than most new AAA games releasing. Game-play looks interesting and could fillthat hole left by the cancellation of Perfect Dark.

Completed it and really enjoyed it #, collectedeverything on my first run through so never felt the need to return but I much preferred it to 2016's Doom and a LOT better than Eternal which I quit playing because its NOT what I want or expect from Doom. It felt like a return to what Doom was and should be - more in common with the OG games too!

4 had that 'local' setting which to me gave it the edge over 3 which I think was where the game-play peaked. 1 set up the Franchise and how it would differ from Motorsport, 2 built upon and refined what 1 did and 3 was where it peaked. 4 had the setting that I am most familiar with but by 5 I had outgrown the Game-play loop and the Festival structure in particular, wanting something different as it felt more like a reskin of what came before and fear FH6 will be just more of the same...

I don't expect them to have ALL the details figured out, inc the price as I expect the world is too volatile for that.

That being said, I am certain that the device will Likely be a Windows device - whether it can/will boot to the 'full' windows, come supplied with ALL the parts or just be limited to booting in what is effectively Windows Gaming mode. If you can't access the full Windows and those processes that are switched off, not required in Gaming mode are not supplied, then you may not be able to search for and download emulators or use it as a full PC too. Its still a MS Console and MS can control what other Apps you can access - Steam, Epic etc

And they can't please EVERYONE - Some of the things that others see as an issue and/or need fixing, another will be angry or frustrated that they Change or 'fix' it the way they do.

Try and regain some Xbox users with changes/fixes and push others away who would prefer they changed/fixed something else and what they did change/fix was the one thing they were happy with...

Point is, what maybe 'bad' for someone could be great for another, what may make someone join could be something that makes another leave, Whatt maybe the best thing about Xbox for one, could be the worst for another so they won't please everyone and will end up pushing some away as they attract others back

I won't pay $/£70 for ANY game and NO game is worth that much to me. They are NO bigger/better than games were on the 360 generation - from a Game-play loop, Story and/or content perspective. Tech may have help games look or run better, but they don't offer better stories or better Game-play mechanics and often use the same game-play loop those old games offered.

Games may take longer to make, but they are choosing to spend that time on improving the graphical look - increasing the detail, the polygon counts, the number of assets they can render on screen, the draw distances etc.

I also don't need to play games on Day 1, not with the massive backlog I have. I still have games I haven't started yet so I would rather play those than spend £70 on a game that needs at least 3 of 4 patches to fix the bugs and optimise for better performance. I can also buy 4+ games in a sale for that much and many that offer 100's of hours of content, great stories and engaging game-play loops.

The 360 generation had games like Bioshock, Mass Effect, Fallout 3, Skyrim, Gears of War trilogy, Dead Space etc etc and modern games aren't 'better' from a narrative or game-play perspective, just graphically better due to technology and hardware evolving. It would be nice if games 'evolved' not just graphics to justify costs...

@Skinny-Pete yeah - it feels huge - I spent a day just trying to unlock the whole map and do the Demiguise mission - I still haven't unlocked ALL the map and still only done 1 trial in the main mission quest. I think I've put in 34hrs so far...

Exclusives will factor in as long as big corporations keep making their games 'Exclusive' to force people to buy their Console Hardware in order to play the games they want to play.

If Consoles were able to play EVERY release, then people would buy the Console based on Price, Aesthetics, Ease of Use, OS/UI, Controller layout etc - especially if Friends/Family can still connect and play together, still chat.

It would just mean that ALL Gamers could play ALL Games on the Hardware they have and./or prefer - not forced to miss out because they didn't buy a certain branded box and can play the games they want with the controller layout they prefer, User Interface they like best etc.

Exclusives aren't made for the Fanboys that defend them, they are made for Hardware manufacurer to force you to buy their Hardware or miss out on playing those Games, made to get you locked in to their 'platform' so they can make money through Subscriptions and monopoly on their Digital storefront. Unless you pay their Sub fees, Games you've paid are 'unplayable'. You've paid £70 to play the game, but unless you pay for PS+ or Game Pass Core, you can't play the game you bought on the console you paid for! The 'Exclusive' was to get you to buy their Hardware and then spend the rest of the generation paying them a monthly fee to keep playing the games you bought!!! And Fanboys will defend their corporate overlords who want to exploit gamers for their cash...

@Skinny-Pete I finally got round to starting Hogwarts Legacy too after buying it cheaply in a sale because it was also 'Play Anywhere'. I'm really enjoying it even though I'm not a big Harry Potter fan at all.

Unless it has Play Anywhere, I'm not buying games these days. I still have quite a few I haven't started yet in my backlog, let alone all the other games I've yet to finish so I don't really need to buy anything. Even if I don't but another game, I doubt I'd clear my backlog before Helix comes out

I don't want yet another remake/remaster. I'd be happy with a reboot or a completely new game. I've never like Halo's MP so I don't care about that - far better FPS MP games on the market in my opinion - but I'd be interested in a new Single Player Campaign (and I don't care or particularly want any co-op mode for that either). I'd like a reboot more so they perhaps don't have to do Couch Co-Op or the 'expected' arena style MP

Personally I'm more disappointed than happy with the direction and feel like Microsoft have broken a promise by removing Call of Duty - regardless of the savings in Game Pass Ultimate!!

I don't believe that Call of Duty was the BIG reason the Price jumped up - I believe that was bundling in a Subscription to Fortnite Crew. A Premium tier sub to a FREE to Play game so it doesn't bring games to a Game Library service and isn't required anyway to play Fortnite. It does NOT expand the Game Pass Library at all. That is a $12 sub and after it was introduced, the price jumped up to $30 from $20 which already had CoD in it.

Microsoft 'promised' all Microsoft Games Day and Date, buying ABK to increase the Library of Games they can add to their Game Library service. Call of Duty IS expensive but also makes the majority of its money from Season Pass and CoD Point sales and lets not forget, that its still 'sold' on other platforms too. No-one will sub to Game Pass Ultimate 'just' to play a $70 game for a year as that costs MORE than buying the game anyway.

I really think they took the wrong thing out and know that they'll still sell CoD regardless but likely pocket the money from all those who pay for Fortnite Crew but never use it. If they made Fortnite Crew 'optional', they wouldn't get any money from those on Ultimate who never play Fortnite.

As I said, I feel that Microsoft have lied and broken a promise to release all their IP's Day/Date in Game Pass. What's next? Elder Scrolls 6 not being in GP because that was Expensive to make, the next Doom? I subbed to Ultimate for ALL MS games Day/Date as that was what they told us Ultimate was. The ONLY reason it jumped up to $30 was because they added a $12 Fortnite Crew Sub that doesn't add Games to a Game Library service. At least Ubisoft+ and EA Access bot expand the number of Games/IPs you can play so make sense.

As such I am dropping Game Pass Ultimate - even though I did end up buying BO7 (not Day 1) because I feel lied to and promises broken

CoD costs more to 'rent' for a year on Game Pass than the £70 it costs to play Day 1. CoD also makes most of its money on Season Passes and Cosmetic Bundles and those aren't 'free' on Game Pass.

They'll lose quite a few GP Subscribers who subscribed for CoD just to sell a few more games and not everyone who plays CoD via Game Pass will now buy it - at least not Day 1 and will wait for a sale, not buy the Blackcell Season Pass (or fewer of them) and/or buy less CoD Points/Cosmetic Bundles.

CoD is likely one of the 'big' games that would sell Game Pass and as that's only on Xbox Consoles, a big reason to buy the Xbox Helix next gen so you can play CoD Day 1 through Game Pass. The big reason they bought ABK was to add games to Game Pass Day 1 and they also promised ALL Microsoft games would be in Game Pass Day 1 - they've broken that promise and can't say that anymore...

Time to quit Game Pass Ultimate. If they are taking a Microsoft First Party game out, how long before they take others out? Should have removed the Fortnite Subscription and made that an optional add on...

I've cancelled Ultimate and dropped to Premium, but I'll probably drop it down to Core now and just buy the games I want to play when they are on sale, like I used to do!!

Absolutely zero interest in this so won't be playing it. It seems that a few others here too have little/no interest in it either.

The only 'positive' I can say is that at least MS have let Double Fine make the games they want, experiment with ideas and have creative freedom and I hope it finds its audience...

I think it reached its 'maximum' price at $20 - but then they added a $12 Subscription to a 'Free to Play' game and raised the price by $10. That Subscription is NOT required to play Fortnite and doesn't add GAMES to a Game Library service. At most, it makes a game EVERYONE can play regardless, na little more customisable.

EA Access and Ubisoft+ at least add Games, add titles/IP's to that library, expands the quantity (and arguably the Quality with a lot more recognised IP's and AAA games).

I really think that adding Fortnite Crew was the breaking point. I don't think they should have made EVERYONE wanting Day1 releases pay for it - at most, it should have been a perk, an optional add-on to their Monthly GPU at a discounted rate. Instead of paying $12 a month, those that 'want' it can add it to their GPU subscription for $10 for example saving $24 a year.

That way, the price of GPU wouldn't have jumped up so much and its not forcing those who don't play (or play enough) Fortnite to have to play an additional $120 a year!

They could even do something similar with EA and Ubisoft services, make them optional, give GPU subscribers the 'choice' to add them to their Subscription at a discounted rate. Start of with 'just' their Game Pass and Day 1 releases with the option to add on EA Access, Ubisoft+ and/or Fortnite Crew at discounted rates as Subscribers and for ease of a 'single' monthly payment. Maybe they could even have deals with Netflix or whatever other Sub services gamers may use on their Hardware to add to Game Pass to 'build your own' Game Pass tier to suit the way you 'use' the service. Only want MS Game Pass and Day 1, this way you can without having to pay for Ubisoft, EA and Fortnite too...

Microsoft won't make CoD, minecraft and Doom Exclusive. I can't see them making Fallout and Elder Scrolls exclusive either and therefore I think the big advantage MS has is Game Pass, the option to play via a Subscription day/date and that these games will be Built for MS based OS's using DirectX before being ported to Playstation and their OS.

I have NO issue with OLD games also releasing on other platforms. Halo CE for example has been 'exclusive' for 25yrs and also had an upgraded version released 'exclusively' 15yrs ago. Gears of War has been Exclusive and also had a upgraded version released 'exclusively'. Both Exclusive for over a Decade.

I think that after a 'year' (or more), those games are not selling uniits, not selling hardware, not selling Subscriptions anymore. Whatever 'new' games are releasing are the games that are selling and therefore, I have NO issue with MS wanting to extract whatever additional income they can get. I have NO issue with Starfield, South of Midnight etc releasing long after they were 'relevant' on Xbox.

I don't think they should or will release 'EVERYTHING' on other platforms - which really is just Switch/Playstation anyway. They will ALL release on PC as PC is a Microsoft Platform (it has a MS OS, uses MS Direct X and is sold on MS store as well). Forza Motorsport probably won't release on PS because it probably won't sell enough to be worth the cost of porting, won't compete with the established Gran Turismo series.

I do think that MS could ensure that they do have exclusives for at least a year or more - at least exclusive from other Consoles. Some of those may well end up as fully exclusive as it makes no sense to release on PS as they won't recuperate the costs, but others will be timed - exclusive for at least a year.

The 'essentials' for a complete 'newbie' would have to be Game Pass - Not necessarilt Ultimate, but I'd recommend Game Pass as a newbie is unlikely to have an existing Library and the money to spend buying a variety of games to play on their hardware.

I also think that Game Pass would enable a newbie to discover the games they want to play, the genres they find most enjoyable etc. I could recommend Gears of War for example, but they may not like that style of game, that type of story/setting etc and prefer to play a platformer or Racing game instead.

Rather than recommend some of my favourite games, I'd suggest Game Pass so that they could discover their own Favouriite Games and have a large variety for minimal cost...

@Sindayl I disagree - that may well be the case for games sold through Steam or Epic Storefronts - after all, they are generic storefronts for ALL PC configurations - but I do expect those sold through Xbox for 'Xbox Helix' will be Optimised for that 'fixed spec' PC.

The default settings will be optimised for the Fixed Spec hardware - that's the difference between building/releasing a game for 'fixed' spec as opposed to building for custom/varied hardware as PC's are. Xbox Helix will be a 'fixed' spec, a known quantity and so the Devs can provide an optimised version specifically for that hardware.

Unlike Console, you'll likely be able to have the option to change settings, like the PC version, but the default settings would likely be optimised for that hardware so gamers can just jump in without having to mess around optimising the settings for their Hardware.

@Sindayl Whilst I do agree that if they don't optimise their Windows OS, it will use more System Resources, Its also likely to be relatively small gains compared to the OG Xbox era.

The OG Xbox had 64MB of RAM, compared to 16GB of RAM in the Series X - wiith more allocated to System than the entire OG Xbox had (around 3GB). When you have so little RAM (as the OG Xbox had), even a 'small' saving of 10MB here or there matter. With 16GB+, 10GB here or there is not a really an issue.

Obviously Windows is somewhat 'bloated' for a purely Gaming Device. Its not optimised for that task as its designed for multi-tasking, for running numerous different apps simultaneously. But the RoG Xbox Ally is more akin to the 'Windows' you are likely to get on the next Xbox - a much more 'gaming' focused OS that doesn't load up all the Windows Processes.

As for competing with PS6, Chances are both will allocate similar amounts of RAM to System resources and have Similar amounts for Gaming. That being said, the hardware isn't going to be the 'same' - just like the PS5 and Series X havea different design and ethos behind their chip. Xbox has more cores, but slower for example.

It will be interesting but Xbox will likely offer a much larger Library with access to 'PC' games (old and new), whilst Sony has its own 'exclusives' and quite a decent selection of 3rd Party releases.

@Titntin As I said in my first post, I'm sure it will be a solid and fun game for those that really enjoy these games. I just think it won't iterate enough, that it will still feel like I've played it many times before and a new coat of paint won't 'help' that feeling.

I'm not expecting a Fallout 2 to Fallout 3 type of change but I think so much will be cut and pasted from the other games from the cars and customisation to many of the events and game-play loop.

Just moving to a 'new' setting isn't really working for me any more. Even when they moved to the UK, that still felt like I'd played the game before and wasn't really bringing enough 'new' (and that added Seasons) to hold my interest and FH5 lost my interest even quicker for very much the same reason.

I've never been to Japan and the map looks very similar to any other Forza Horizon map. I don't think it will bring enough 'new' to stop me feeling like I'e played it before, like it could just be a new Expansion, a new DLC map rather than a whole new game.

@awp69 Its still more of the same with minor tweaks. Progression is just the 'grind' through the game but the game-play loop is still very much the same. They've made the Showcase events more 'replayable' for example, but that's still doing the same thing you did in every previous game.

I'm bored of driving around those maps, bored of seeing various things like speed traps, bonus boards etc, bored of the same basic game-play loop, bored of the Horizon Festival backdrop, fed-up with the annoying voice work and extremely limited soundtrack (maybe 1 radio station of music I'd tolerate and each station with its same audio loop that gets annoying really quickly)

Its iterative and/or minor changes but underneath that 'new' skin, that 'new' setting, its the same game, the same basic sructure, the same basic format, the same basic game-play loop of driving around, competing in races/events, buying/upgrading cars to do more driving around and competing in more of the same type of events - something EVERY Forza Horizon game has done.

Its 'fun' for the first half hour or so, but then I get bored and move on to other games. I'm spending less and less tie in each new Forza Game, the 'novelty' has worn off snd I'm bored with the basic Game-play loop that these offer. After the opening spectacle, and some of the showcase events, there isn't really anything that makes me want to play...

Not excited for FH6 at all, although I do think its a better and more fun racing game than Motorsport. I don't think it will do anything radically different from the previous 5 and I've always got bored of them after a few hours or so.

I expect this to be very similar to all th e others - graphically impressive with a rock solid performance. The same mix of activities and events, the same structure and likely, same annoying voices and limited soundtrack.

I'm sure it will be a Solid game and fans will enjoy it, but after 5 games, I'm not really excited for 'more' of the same...

I don't think any Hardware ages well and never really use them after a new generation releases. In fact by the time new Hardware releases, I'm more than ready to ditch the old and buy the new.

With modern hardware offering Backwards Compatibility and with 'upgrades' - even if that's just higher frame rates/resolution, it makes the old hardware obsolete and not even the best place to play my old games.

I've bought ALL Xbox hardware at launch and a few revisions, new versions released mid gen too - like the XB1X (Project Scorpio edition), a OG Xbox Crystal Edition, 360 with Kinect and XB1S. I have also bought several Playstations like the PS3 (60GB Phat), PS4 and PS5 as well as a few iterations like the PS3 Slim and PS4 Pro. I've also purchased a RoG Ally and a RoG Xbox Ally X day 1 too.

I still own my XB360 Kinect and XB1 VCR and Kinect too, but other than both Kinects, not that I ever really used them, I don't own any random Peripherals. The only game related Peripherals I would ever buy would be a Limited Edition Controller with custom design related to a game.

At this rate, I'll be able to sell my Day 1 PS5 for the same money I paid as that price will seem a bargain against the new...

I think this was inevitable. It was only a matter of time they too would have to raise prices as costs and lets not forget, fuel has gone up so Shipping and distributing globally also adds to the cost. There was mention that Sony had bought quite a bit of stock prior to MS's price rise so that would run out as productioin continued leading to the eventual price rise as Sony buys more stock at the higher prices.

10m consoles with 1TB SSD's is 10mTB's of Storage, 10m Chips, 160m GB RAM - as well as all the other components, plastics etc that go into a Console and Controller...

Not used it yet - but I think it makes more sense than adding a Fortnite premium subscription - like EA Play, Ubisoft+ at least adds 'games' to the Game Pass library where as Fortnite Crew does NOT and should be a 'Perk' - just like other Free to Play games have Game Pass Perks .

As I said, I have not really used it, but I don't really use EA Play either. Both are decent enough with a reasonable library of titles and add to the plethora of games available on Game Pass. As such I have no issue with them both being part of Game Pass, I just haven't had much cause to use Ubisoft yet and rarely use EA play but that's because I have bought the games I enjoyed playing before they came to Game Pass - not because they had no games I'd play.

The marketing maybe changing, but the concept hasn't or isn't. The point was that ALL these devices gave you access to 'Xbox' games - whether native releases or cloud based - the sentiment is still there too, but the audience is still somewhat closed minded on what 'Xbox' is. They still think Xbox is just the Physical Console Hardware, not the Entire Microsoft Gaming division, their games and their Gaming Ecosystem.

The language and marketing may well change, but I can't see MS reverting back to 'Just' their Console and not releasing on PC or Cloud Day 1 just so the Console 'sells' and Console gamers feel they have exclusives that are ONLY on their Hardware, that maybe MS will then challenge Sony in Console sales instead of lagging behind because PC (and casual Cloud) gamers will have to buy the Hardware or miss out.

@Nakatomi_Uk 1000 staff, 1000 salaries, 1000 health insurance plans, Employee and building Insurance, rates inc electricity costs for the hardware they use, the heating and rent, Tax etc etc.

What jobs do you think they have going that they can just move 1000 staff - I doubt ALL are working on Fortnite as it is. I would expect that any they could keep, any 'open' vacancies within Epic, they'd have tried to fill with but they aren't really saving money by closing down those Fortnite modes, they are saving money because by closing those modes, they don't need the staff to support them. They aren't generating the money to pay the Staff so the Staff have to go.

If they haven't got the revenue coming in to pay them now, where is the revenue going to come in to pay them if they move them. No one wants to hear about Job losses but I doubt they'd make people redundant if they had positions and/or revenue coming in to pay them. Its the fact that 'Epic' as a whole are losing money - they are spending more than they have coming in and so have to reduce their costs before they go bankrupt and EVERYONE loses their Jobs.

People globally are struggling to put food on the table, pay their bills, put fuel in the car to go to work etc etc so aren't spending money on things like Cosmetic bundles in Free to Pay Games. Every Publisher is struggling as 'leisure' activities, like gaming, are often the hardest hit, Many jobs have been lost, studios closed, projects cancelled as Gamers don't have the disposable income to spend on Games as their costs are rising whilst pay is stagnating...

I'm torn between no and only for Back Compatibility.

PC, Series S and Play Anywhere, even Game Pass are purely Digital - its just Series X owners that can buy Physical and I wonder how many ONLY use it for BC with XB1 and older Hardware, choosing to buy ALL their new games digitally.

Physical sales have dropped significantly on Xbox Hardware - especially with Game Pass and the store discounts. I don't know if 'Play Anywhere' has been much of an incentive as I expect most Xbox gamers don't play on PC to want or care about Play Anywhere.

There will always be some that will want Physical, even if Games no longer fit on a Disc and/or cost more because of the additional costs of manufacturing and distributing - especially with the 'distribution' fuel costs rising. Some people will still want Physical even if all that's on the disc is the Licence key, that way they can sell that licence.

Maybe the best option will be to offer a separate Drive for BC and let 3rd Party Publishers decide if they also want to releases Physical editions but I don't think they'll bother themselves. Between Game Pass and all the Digital Storefronts, they'll probably decide that not enough people will buy Physical to justify the costs of manufacturing and it will likely be the SAME version as the PC version, not a Bespoke version ported to 'Xbox Console' specifically. PC's don't generally have a Disc Drive and I don't know if Drives will be manufactured for much longer.

When ALL Developers are building for and releasing on Windows PC, then of course it will make it a LOT easier and quicker for Developers to bring their games to Windows on Xbox Helix.

The major benefit to Xbox Studios (and others) is that they don't have to port their games and get them working on a 2nd Platform - thus cutting a lot of the cost and time down enabling Devs to release their games sooner. Its essentially the 'same' game released on PC as their 'Project Helix' Hardware - just with Xbox Achievements - but the Game is built to run on Windows PC so will run on Windows Xbox cutting down a lot of the time and cost of porting to a Console.

Windows 11 is designed and built for multi-tasking - a Jak of all trades OS for business and leisure users, for multi-media or office use etc etc but not a 'master' of one - specifically gaming which interests the majority of is here.

Its that ability to multi-task simultaneously across such a variety of uses that Windows became such a vital and widely used OS for PC's - in fact I doubt you'd find a PC without it - unless you go the Apple Mac route with iOS.

The purpose of this is to 'turn off' all unnecessary (for gaming) processes so that its not using 'resources' that could be used by Games - some processes would use some CPU cores so the game would be inconsistent. Consoles for example have 8cores but set aside 1-2cores purely for OS features so games are more consistent have 'fixed' resources purely for gaming.

Optimising the OS will help and it would be 'great' if they can bring some of the gaming features to PC - Game/OS updates when not in use, Quick Resume etc. Merging Xbox into Microsoft maybe the 'best' thing to happen to Windows and PC gaming for years as the Windows team have 'neglected' Gaming/gamers for years and now they have Xbox OS teams working with Windows team to optimise and improve the PC gaming experience!!

@Jayphex Basically all Gaming Hardware has a CPU, GPU and RAM for running games - even those devices that don't let you custmise or update the hardware.

Consoles tend to be built with a single chip that has both the CPU and GPU processors built into one 'chip' rather than a Gaming PC that may have a separate CPU and a separate Graphics chip on a 'Card' that can just plug into a Motherboard - RAM too plugs into that motherboard.

A LOT of devices, inc the RoG Xbox Ally, Laptops/Tablets etc may have a single chip with both CPU and GPU built into it so it can play games. PC's have tended to have Plug in RAM, SSD's etc into a board so they can sell you different specs. Pay a bit more to have 64GB RAM or a 2TB SSD for example - but a Console will likely have the RAM or SSD fixed to the main board along with the CPU/GPU chip because they are 'fixed' spec devices.

The only reason PC's have Graphics Cards is so that you can replace them, upgrade them etc where as Consoles are fixed spec hardware and built around a single Chip with its CPU and GPU combined.

I'd rather pay £1k and not have to pay a monthly fee for Online Social gaming than £700+ and another £5-10 a month for the next 5-7yrs just on PS+ or GPC.

We'll have to see what the world and market is actually like when this finally releases - the distribution costs too could make quite a difference with Fuel costs rising. The cost to transport the hardware around the world to get them to the customers will make a difference - just like costs of the raw materials inc Silicon, Copper etc can affect the cost.

I'm not worrying about it today or making a decision either. I don't have enough information to make an informed decision today and don't know how much alternatives will cost. A PS6 may not be a good alternative - not just specs, but other costs (PS+), Library (which includes exising Library carried forward) and Policy - no guarantee MS will release the Xbox games I want to play day/date and unlikely to have Game Pass for 'bette' value way of playing those games.

Point is, its too early to decide - you may not need to buy at all if you have a PC or content to play via cloud on your current Xbox hardware - especially if you choose to play the majority of games on other Hardware...

The entry/budget level will likely be Cloud on whatever device you have - streaming at upto 1440/60fps will be the cheapest option if you don't want or can't justify the 'Premium' Hardware option!

@BacklogBrad They'll still continue to shout that because they can't wrap their heads around the fact that Xbox is the entire Microsoft Gaming division, not just the traditional Console Hardware.

The fact is that since 'merging' Xbox into Microsoft a decade ago, when ALL games began releasing Day/Date on PC, Xbox and Cloud (starting with Sea of Thieves), Microsoft has 'invested' heavily in Gaming - in 2018, they announced numerous Studios they acquired - Playground, Obsidian, inXile, Compulsion, Undead Labs, Double Fine etc and then followed those up with first acquiring Bethesda and then ABK growing 'Xbox' to help MS become one of the biggest brands in Gaming overtaking Sony.

The 'Console' itself certainly hasn't grown or matched XB360 numbers, let alone compete with PS5 or Switch 2 sales numbers, but unlike Sony and Nintendo, MS's 'Xbox' users are not limited to just their Console, they also have PC and Cloud users and by PC, that's Windows, Battlenet & Bethesda.net platforms (not Steam - although their games are sold there too) - and Game Pass PC too of course.

Point is, they'll still shout Xbox is Dead because Xbox Consoles are unlikely to sell like Playstation or Nintendo consoles - even if they 'stop' releasing games on Playstation/Nintendo hardware (excluding CoD, Minecraft etc which will remain multi-plat regardless) because Xbox gamers will still have the option to play on Hardware they already have via Cloud or their PC hardware - thus negating the need to buy 'Project Helix'. I bet XB1 and/or Series owners can play via Cloud instead of upgrading if they want to save money...

Xbox won't 'die' because they'll still have their OWN platform (not just become a multi-platform Publisher like Sega) - even if that is 'Windows' PC and their OWN Cloud platform too. The traditional 'Console' may die but they can still make/licence Xbox branded Hardware with a MS OS at its heart!!! But to 'Console' gamers, they'll consider Xbox dead.

@Fiendish-Beaver I do think that MS perhaps have expected too much in some areas and in others, circumstances beyond their control have inhibited the growth they had expected/hoped for after the Acquisitions.

ABK was announced in 2021 although we all know that it dragged on far longer than anticipated before MS actually took over. In that time, things 'globally' had changed with the Russian Market being closed off from them as well as gaming suffering as prices rose whilst incomes stagnated leading to less disposable income for gamers.

As you are likely aware, many gamers are choosing to play Free to Play games like Roblox and Fortnite, certainly not buying the number of 'new' games they were a few years ago when Publishers were investing the studios, greenlighting games that would take at least the next 5yrs or so to make - committing to spend but not predicting the cost would rise so much whilst gamers would spend less. That's why Every publisher, not just MS has cancelled games and closed Studios - some Studios bought in the past 5ys or so not even releasing a game for their new owners before being shut.

For many on a site like this, which is aimed very much at the Console gamer and vocal minority, its likely to be very much more negative because their 'preferred' hardware isn't competing with Nintendo or Sony's Console in terms of sales figures, Seemingly dead, despite growing to become 'bigger' than both of those Publishers in terms of Gaming.

As for being to 'soon' - Cloud obviously is as the infrastructure isn't really there for it to be 'optimal' everywhere - although the experience is far better on home internet than on the go wifi and its also not something MS themselves have any control over. However, I'd say that them opting to return to their PC platform and try and build that back up was not too soon - maybe neglected it a bit too long. Most Gen Z gamers are PC gamers and don't want to be 'locked in' to that Console only platform. They've grown up with a PC and using Windows so its just as convenient/easy as a Console and grew-up with a SteamDeck so that's where their Games library is - they don't really care about Physical or 'Hardware', just that they can access their Games, Music etc on whatever device they can sign into their account on to access their Digital content wherever they are. The 'console' isn't important, its just an option - maybe the most affordable 'hardware' option for Native gaming...

@Fiendish-Beaver I bet MS don't wonder - but the gaming community continuosly wonder...

A decade ago, MS announced that ALL their games would release Day/date on PC - thus no more 'exclusives' and the Community back then said Xbox was 'dead' as there was now no reason to own an Xbox. The XB1X, Series S and Series X have all released since Xbox and I'd say sold reasonable well considering they are totally optional. Now a decade on, they ask why Xbox isn't selling like Playstation yet know that you don't 'need' to buy an Xbox to play in the Xbox ecosystem...

That's not even counting the Cloud and all the devices (inc Fire Stick in recent years) that no doubt would 'hurt' the sales of Hardware. In fact, Xbox gamers don't even need to upgrade from their XB1s/X hardware to play Xbox as they can play games via cloud on these. Why spend money on upgrading hardware when you can play on the hardware you already own?

People obviously have bought Series consoles as they offer a native and improved gaming experience over cloud, a 'Console style' experience and at a console like price point they won't get from a PC and the ability to play older Xbox console games via BC.

However, a LOT of the Casuals maybe content to play on devices they own via Cloud (inc their old XB1 hardware or Firestick) thus negating the need to purchase a Series Console. PC gamers, regardless of the Specs of their set-up, aren't spending money on an Xbox Console when it has NO games they can't play - even on a Student Laptop via the Cloud with whatever Controller they have/prefer.

I'd wager that Microsoft themselves expected to sell far less Consoles but expand the Xbox userbase beyond what their Consoles have ever reached. Xbox is 'bigger' than its ever been since they've built up their Studio count and owned IP's and now one of the biggest brands in Gaming - Xbox is not just the Console, its the brand name for ALL of Microsoft Gaming. I bet MS themselves didn't expect to sell as many units as Sony or Nintendo - even after buying Bethesda and ABK - maybe expected to sell more Game Pass subscriptions across PC, Console and Cloud but not necessarily more Consoles knowing that a percentage will choose to play on PC or Cloud so won't be buying Console Hardware!

@kmtrain83 And that's where Cloud comes in and you having to use a Microsoft owned App and a Microsoft owned Subscription to Stream their games. I can't see them releasing 'Native' versions to compete with their Windows or Xbox hardware versions in general - although certain IP's could be the exception (like Minecraft for example).

Ideally, they want to get you into their ecosystem playing on a Microsoft powered device - whether that's a Windows PC, an Xbox Console or their Cloud via their App. Yes there are Games that will release Day/Date on Playstation for example but most probably won't. If they do release day 1, it will be OLD games they've remastered, maybe even for a 2nd time (like Gears and Halo) otherwise, the games they do release will be months, if not years later to maximise Revenue from Gamers that won't or can't buy their Product to play. As MS customers, you get the games first and opportunity to play 'free' via a MS Service....

If you want to play games like Halo, Gears, Forza, Fable natively etc you'll buy a Microsoft OS powered device as that is what they will be 'built' for in the first instance and available in their service too. You may get some games (eventually) on other platforms, but that isn't guaranteed and may wait years to play - long after they've been on sale on Microsoft platforms!

You know some games will certainly release Day 1 elsewhere, but you also have to consider that MS own these IP's, these Studios etc and can decide to keep games Exclusive if they want...

What you also have to consider is whether there are any EXTRA costs to the hardware like Consoles. Both Playstation and Xbox consoles have required a Subscription to unlock the full Library and options the Console offer - PS+ Essential and Gold, now Game Pass Core are 'required' for most gamers.

Whilst I know you can buy cheaper in bulk, both these are $10 a month. I know that most gamers will likely buy years in advance to keep the cost lower, but it still adds up over the years. Even at £60 a year, over 5yrs that's an additional £300 on top of the £500+ you spent on your Series X and/or PS5.

I'm sure they'll have Game Pass for PC, but I don't expect to have to pay for Online Social features - that would push gamers to buy all their Online games through Steam which don't require any sub fees. Why buy CoD on Xbox when it requires Game Pass Core yet buying on Steam or Battlenet doesn't require a sub for Online Social Gaming?

Of course that may mean the Hardware isn't subsidised so more expensive than Consoles tend to be - but Consoles are often sold at a LOSS and then make money from the gamer because they are 'locked in' to paying Sub fees to unlock Content and features, buying games from their store ONLY giving them a Monopoly on digital content etc. That's why Consoles are/were 'cheap' in the first place as the manufacturers expected to make money off of selling you Subs, Games and Peripherals like Controllers that won't last a generation...

@kmtrain83 What's that got to do with anything? It won't have Windows or Xbox Console games so the only way to play your 'Xbox' on an Apple device is via the Cloud.

Microsoft will want you to buy Games from their store and play on their Platform - not Steam or Battlenet. Apple Mac/iOS aren't their platform or selling OS's to those devices - but they do have their App that you can play via Cloud. They only make games for Windows PC, not Mac.

Apple Mac is irrelevant to the conversation as they aren't going to offer Xbox games and certainly not Xbox Console games 'natively' so no Xbox/Microsoft Gamer is likely to be looking at Apple Macs as an option to rival a Windows PC or Xbox Hybrid Console...

@kmtrain83 Maybe it will be a bespoke/Hybrid OS or custom Hardware design that allows them to switch between PC and legacy Xbox modes so that only they (or Licenced partners) can access/use.

The RoG Xbox Ally had a custom Windows build that booted to a optimised version so I'm sure they could have a Customised Windows build for their 'Console' thats purely designed gaming and has Back Compat/Series OS built in to run Console games but that's not the 'Windows' version they'll sell to other PC manufactures, only those that wish to Partner with or Licence the Xbox brand.

If it requires some Custom Hardware or a specific tier of AMD Chip as MS has partnered with AMD for their future Hardware, that too may stop some cheap PC clone.

When the RoG Xbox Ally's launched, they were the only ones with the Handheld optimised version of Windows - although it did roll out to insiders and eventually other devices, but that also shows that they 'could' have their own unique version of Windows that does allow Back Compat with their Console Library.

At the end of the day though, they may also not care if other PC users can now access the Xbox Console Library and then decide to buy and play Xbox Console games on their 'cheap PC's as they'll still be in the 'Xbox' ecosystem contributing to their user base numbers, revenue, engagement figures etc etc. If EVERY PC suddenly becomes an 'Xbox' Console able to play Xbox Console games as long as you have an Xbox Profile and buy from Xbox, I don't think MS will be too 'concerned' you didn't buy their Hardware - especially not if its subsidised and makes no money or even loses money like most Consoles do at launch.

Xbox Console will likely be exclusive to Microsofts PC platform regardless - not Steam or Epic - so it may bring PC gamers from Steam to Microsoft on their PC, choose to play on MS's Platform instead. What many console gamers don't seem to understand is that a PC isn't a 'single' Platform (Steam) but multiple Platforms and its not always the most popular for some games CoD for example was more popular on Battlenet than Steam but Steam is the only one to publish data. MS may use Xbox Console Games to really be a Rival to Steam on PC so gamers maybe can access on ANY Windows PC - after all, Windows is Microsoft owned...