@themightyant I'm talking about luna abyss specifically. 17 developers across 7 years is crazy! Even if they were all entry level salaries of 28k annual, that would still come out to 3.3 mil over 7 years.
That's not including benefits either. It's a crazy industry!
I fear the games industry is at a tipping point. Even indie games have Dev cycles of 4+ years.
I read from a GDC interview that a “smash hit” in the indie scene sells roughly 200k. At a 7 year dev cycle, it would be impossible to recoup the cost of development with 200k sold.
And Part of me doubts Luna Abyss sold even that much.
@Fiendish-Beaver I think she's calling out the many means Xbox makes money through its games. COD, Candy Crush, Kiln, and Sea of Thieves are all crazy different experiences that demand time and cash in different ways.
Likewise, it sounds like there are a lot of different internal processes the developers use. Which makes sense with all of the acquisitions.
Why/how can Double Fine and Obsidian push out games so much faster than our other studios? They're smaller, but does it makes sense to push out 3 AA games in the span of 4 years instead of a single AAA title?
Can you image what 2025 could have been for console sales and game pass sub if Doom, Oblivion, Gears, Outer Worlds 2 and (maybe) COD released on Xbox first?
@themightyant I meant introductory as in that's the price/tier they market to their audience. They market Ultimate as de facto for the average consumer without building value in their other tiers. Everything else is a downgrade.
If GP only has marketable value on its Ultimate tier, then two things happen:
1) Users don't have anywhere else to go in the ecosystem (except downward). 2) Users are much more willing to cancel outright than downgrade.
MS needs to build the value of their lower tiers and market them, transitioning users to Ultimate over time. The "land-and-expand" model doesn't work when the only the highest tier is even worth looking at.
AKA 18% profitability from Microsoft and Xbox on a "per game" basis, but with an additional 12% from internal publishers like Activision (which they HAVE to mandate to hit their own publisher profitability margin that MS separately set for them). 30% total.
Point is - MS can be technically right... but also manipulating metrics and margins to mislead the public.
They really are an incredible company. Their releases are truly AAA. But, unlike the other gaming giants, Capcom has managed to pump them out timely and (presumptively) within budget.
You increase the price of your games across the board and THEN announce a remake of your top franchises on Playstation. It's almost like you KNEW PS owners were going to buy this. Crazy hustle.
A lotta yall saying avowed, but I gotta say South of Midnight. Its reminds me of those early game cube / ps2 games like Beyond Good and Evil and Prince of Persia but with a completely fresh art style and setting.
I'm sure Spencer briefed Nadella on this reality. If they moved to a multi-plat model, console sales would plummet even further.
We all knew this, and I'm sure the Xbox team mapped out forecasts detailing this until their new "PC thinly veiled as an Xbox" generation gets released.
For whatever reason, they see more growth potential on this route.
Custom...gadgets. Have a gadget store, an R&D department, or whatever. Give me the option to build and upgrade HUNDREDS of traversal and combat gadgets.
@TheEstablishment I totally agree with you, but I disagree with the full blast third party approach MS seems to enjoy. An exclusivity window of one year would be enough to boost game pass subscriptions.
Case and point–I subscribed to peacock to watch the super mario bros movie. It's on other platforms now, but I'm still subbed to Peacock because I came to like the platform.
Timed exclusivity works and I don't understand why MS seems to be ignoring that for major releases like DOOM.
@Prestige-worldwide I think it dilutes the game pass brand long term.
I assumed that halo would come to PlayStation eventually through a PS-native game pass client, but why would anyone sub to game pass without compelling exclusive content?
Like it or lump it, MS is the leader in games streaming services. They need to start acting like that and less like third in the console business.
Netflix doesn’t share originals because it dilutes their service value.
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Re: Impressive New Xbox Game Loses Its Entire Dev Team After A Month
@themightyant I'm talking about luna abyss specifically. 17 developers across 7 years is crazy! Even if they were all entry level salaries of 28k annual, that would still come out to 3.3 mil over 7 years.
That's not including benefits either. It's a crazy industry!
Re: Impressive New Xbox Game Loses Its Entire Dev Team After A Month
@themightyant I know right?? Crazy long dev cycle!
Re: Impressive New Xbox Game Loses Its Entire Dev Team After A Month
I fear the games industry is at a tipping point. Even indie games have Dev cycles of 4+ years.
I read from a GDC interview that a “smash hit” in the indie scene sells roughly 200k. At a 7 year dev cycle, it would be impossible to recoup the cost of development with 200k sold.
And Part of me doubts Luna Abyss sold even that much.
Re: Microsoft Announces Fan Feedback Program 'XBOX Player Voice', And It's Now Live
"Hey a feedback portal. Nice!"
And then I commented and went about my evening.
Re: Talking Point: One Year Later, What Do You Think Of DOOM: The Dark Ages?
Personally, I loved it. It came at a time in my life when the escapism was very much needed.
Re: Talking Point: What Dream Reveal Would You Like To See At The Xbox Games Showcase 2026?
Give me a gross, Ultra-HD reboot of Battletoads a la Star Fox 2026
Re: More Than 50% Of Hardcore Gamers Don't Buy Full-Priced Games Anymore, Survey Finds
"Pay me $70 now!"
Waits a year
"Because it's Christmas and we have end of year quotas to meet... pay me $20 and I'll throw in the DLC for free."
Re: Xbox Leadership Issues Massive Statement On The Future Of The Brand
Not gonna lie, I like the bullet points. Here's hoping this can trickle into the games I love.
Re: Talking Point: What's A 'Good Deal' For An Xbox Series X or S In 2026?
In this economy??? Idk like $50
Re: Asha Sharma Lays Out Plans For 'Deeper Investment' In Xbox's Platform Foundations
@Fiendish-Beaver I think she's calling out the many means Xbox makes money through its games. COD, Candy Crush, Kiln, and Sea of Thieves are all crazy different experiences that demand time and cash in different ways.
Likewise, it sounds like there are a lot of different internal processes the developers use. Which makes sense with all of the acquisitions.
Why/how can Double Fine and Obsidian push out games so much faster than our other studios? They're smaller, but does it makes sense to push out 3 AA games in the span of 4 years instead of a single AAA title?
Re: Xbox Is Having 'Very Big Discussions' About Exclusivity, Says Reporter
What's wrong with a year's worth of exclusivity?
Can you image what 2025 could have been for console sales and game pass sub if Doom, Oblivion, Gears, Outer Worlds 2 and (maybe) COD released on Xbox first?
Re: 'Race To The Bottom Pricing' Isn't Advisable For Xbox Game Pass, Suggests BG3 Director
@themightyant I meant introductory as in that's the price/tier they market to their audience. They market Ultimate as de facto for the average consumer without building value in their other tiers. Everything else is a downgrade.
If GP only has marketable value on its Ultimate tier, then two things happen:
1) Users don't have anywhere else to go in the ecosystem (except downward).
2) Users are much more willing to cancel outright than downgrade.
MS needs to build the value of their lower tiers and market them, transitioning users to Ultimate over time. The "land-and-expand" model doesn't work when the only the highest tier is even worth looking at.
Re: 'Race To The Bottom Pricing' Isn't Advisable For Xbox Game Pass, Suggests BG3 Director
There's a difference between "race to the bottom" and "sustainable growth model."
Game pass needs to find a price point that can introduce gamers into their ecosystem and then upsell them over a lifetime.
They won't be able to do that at an introductory price of $30 monthly.
Re: Xbox Announces New 'Project Helix' Console, Says It Will Play PC Games
Throwing this out there - Coming from a corporate marketer - that logo animation was 100% AI generated.
Re: Talking Point: Which Xbox Games Deserved More Love This Year?
The Alters. It's fantastic and was so under the radar, I don't even see it getting mentioned on these types of lists.
Re: Microsoft Says It's 'Incorrect' That Xbox Division Is Now Targeting 30% Profit Margins
I bet it's some corporate BS.
AKA 18% profitability from Microsoft and Xbox on a "per game" basis, but with an additional 12% from internal publishers like Activision (which they HAVE to mandate to hit their own publisher profitability margin that MS separately set for them). 30% total.
Point is - MS can be technically right... but also manipulating metrics and margins to mislead the public.
Re: Poll: How Are You Getting On With Mortal Kombat 1 On Xbox Game Pass?
MK seems a little too much these days. More power to whoever's into it, it's just no longer for me.
Re: Xbox Celebrates 'Incredible' 2025 And Thanks The Fans In End Of Year Message
Can you imagine how the year would have looked if Xbox didn't go multi-platform? Wow. 2025 would have been THE year.
15 exclusives? Timed or otherwise, I don't think that's ever been done.
Re: 15 First-Party Games Released On Xbox In 2025, But Which Was Your Favourite?
Sim is the only game that gave me a different kind of emotional payoff.
I beat doom 3, I knew what to expect… but SoM was unique on every level
Re: Poll: Now That The Dust Has Settled, Which Xbox Game Pass Tier Are You Subscribed To?
Cancelled. I went from Ultimate to zilch. I was playing Silksong on GP, but I saved myself 10 bucks by buying it outright.
Side note: the value of Silksong is INSANE
Re: Three Games Are Leaving Xbox Game Pass In Late October 2025
I loved Jusant! I played it with my daughter and she was utterly entranced by it all.
Re: Everwild Screenshots Leak Online Several Months After Xbox Cancellation
@Nintendo4Sonic Remember, that's only what we know about too.
WHO KNOWS what else was cancelled.
Re: Five Games Are Being Added To Xbox Game Pass This Week (October 14-17)
Weird that we got less press for Keeper than we did Hellblade 2
Re: Former ZeniMax Devs Who Were Fired By Xbox Create New Company Called Sackbird Studios
That logo looks AI generated. That said, best of luck Sackbird!
Re: Talking Point: How Do You Feel About Ubisoft+ Classics Being Added To Game Pass Ultimate?
I could own the entire Ubisoft Classic library in perpetuity for $25 on a year end sale sooooo no. Not worth the GP addition and price hike.
Re: Xbox Game Pass Is Getting A Major Overhaul With New Names, Games & Price Changes
Bought a Series S for $200 as a Game Pass machine. Now? I simply cannot justify that price.
Re: Microsoft Has Made Its 'Largest Investment' In Xbox Game Pass Ever This Year
MS in 2026:
"Game Pass Ultimate: Now only $23.99. Bundle and save on over 150 new games!"
3 months later...
"Due to increasingly difficult market conditions, Game Pass will now be sold at a monthly rate of $33.99."
Re: Six Games Are Confirmed For Xbox Game Pass In October 2025 So Far
Wow big month for Xbox! NG4, OW2, and Keeper
Re: Xbox Game Pass: All Games Coming Soon In August 2025
@Millionski Wait what? Where did you find that news, push square?
Re: Xbox's Everwild Reportedly Cancelled As Layoffs Hit Sea Of Thieves Developer
Darn. It was probably a live service game, but I was still curious about this one
Re: Talking Point: What's Your Xbox Game Of The Year For 2025 So Far?
I’m loving all of the South of Midnight shoutouts! It’s not perfect, but it truly is a special game.
Personally, my top 3 include:
South of Midnight
Blue Prince
Doom the Dark Ages
Re: Xbox Officially Adds Steam Integration Via New PC App Feature
If they drop the Xbox PC app on the series s and x... They may start selling the series s and x.
Re: Xbox Announces Next-Gen Console Strategy, Promises 'Deeper Visuals' & Backwards Compatibility
Hey but why? Why would anyone buy a new console? There are still third party games releasing on Xbox One and PS4
Re: Poll: What Do You Think Of The Alters On Xbox Game Pass?
I've been hyped for this game after watching Mickey 17! I'm on a work trip atm but have the game pre-loaded for when I'm back.
Re: Phil Spencer Says 2026 Is Going To Be 'A Really Special Year' For Xbox
2025 was the juggernaut year for xbox. If 2026 is going to be a somehow going to up 2025, color me excited
Re: It Sure Sounds Like We're Getting A New Halo Game In 2026
RIP console wars 🪦
Re: Capcom Has Made Record Profits Again, For The 8th Year In A Row
They really are an incredible company. Their releases are truly AAA. But, unlike the other gaming giants, Capcom has managed to pump them out timely and (presumptively) within budget.
Cheers Capcom 🥂
Re: Xbox Seemingly Affected As Microsoft Announces Thousands More Job Cuts
Sad to see. In retrospect, the 2010s were really good for gaming and growth in the industry. I hope we can get there again!
Re: Xbox Announces Gears Of War: Reloaded, Releasing Summer 2025
Aha I see what you did there Ol' Micky Softy.
You increase the price of your games across the board and THEN announce a remake of your top franchises on Playstation. It's almost like you KNEW PS owners were going to buy this. Crazy hustle.
Re: Talking Point: Has This Been The Best Month Ever For Xbox Game Pass?
Game Pass has given more this month than Ubisoft+ gives in a year.
Re: Talking Point: What's The Best Game You've Played In 2025 So Far?
A lotta yall saying avowed, but I gotta say South of Midnight. Its reminds me of those early game cube / ps2 games like Beyond Good and Evil and Prince of Persia but with a completely fresh art style and setting.
Re: Switch 2 Fares Well Against Xbox Series S In Street Fighter 6 Comparison
What's interesting is that Cyberpunk runs notably worse on switch 2 than series S, which is surprising to me
Re: Xbox Series X|S Sales Now Trailing Almost 20% Behind Xbox One In The US
I'm sure Spencer briefed Nadella on this reality. If they moved to a multi-plat model, console sales would plummet even further.
We all knew this, and I'm sure the Xbox team mapped out forecasts detailing this until their new "PC thinly veiled as an Xbox" generation gets released.
For whatever reason, they see more growth potential on this route.
Re: Report: Xbox Series X Successor Will Be 'Closer To Windows Than Ever'
I simply cannot wait to earn achievements for spell-checking my Word Docs.
Re: Starfield Has Possibly The Best Single-Player Narrative Of All Time, Says God Of War Director
I'm sure the story is good... but the constant load screens were just too much for me to really get into it
Re: One Of 2024's Best Games Is Heading To Xbox Game Pass Today
Heyo I was about to buy this later tonight, score! Thank you to my favorite coporate jargon dispenser: Phill Spencer!
Re: Talking Point: What Would You Want From A New Batman Game?
Hear me out on this one–
Custom...gadgets. Have a gadget store, an R&D department, or whatever. Give me the option to build and upgrade HUNDREDS of traversal and combat gadgets.
So tears of the kingdom... but Batman
Re: Xbox On Keeping Games Off Other Platforms: 'That's Not A Path For Us'
@TheEstablishment I totally agree with you, but I disagree with the full blast third party approach MS seems to enjoy. An exclusivity window of one year would be enough to boost game pass subscriptions.
Case and point–I subscribed to peacock to watch the super mario bros movie. It's on other platforms now, but I'm still subbed to Peacock because I came to like the platform.
Timed exclusivity works and I don't understand why MS seems to be ignoring that for major releases like DOOM.
Re: Xbox Will Continue To Ship More Games On PlayStation And Nintendo
@Prestige-worldwide I think it dilutes the game pass brand long term.
I assumed that halo would come to PlayStation eventually through a PS-native game pass client, but why would anyone sub to game pass without compelling exclusive content?
Like it or lump it, MS is the leader in games streaming services. They need to start acting like that and less like third in the console business.
Netflix doesn’t share originals because it dilutes their service value.
Re: Xbox Unveils The 'Excellence Awards' And Reveals All The 2024 Winners
I'm curious about that skull and bones player engagement award–Does it have a dedicated fanbase of 5 or did the internet over-hate?