I think we all know that Live Service only applies to games with a multiplayer component, @Millionski. I mean, Destiny is a Live Service game, yet you can play much of it solo. Call of Duty has a single-player component, but it is essentially a multiplayer game, yet is deemed a Live Service game.
If you Google Gears 5 it says it is a Live Service game (or was), and there is nothing different about what will be offered by E-Day. We know they will be adding more content, and that it will have seasons (albeit they're not called seasons in Gears of War) that will reset your progress.
Regardless of whether or not people want to accept that it is a Live Service game, surely no one can believe that the game would not have done incredibly well on PlayStation, and it could have made a huge financial difference to Xbox in a way that keeping it as a console exclusive is unlikely to do. A game of this nature, with cross-platform play, would have thrived, and bought in millions for Xbox, and I remain convinced that it is a mistake to have pulled it from PlayStation. I do firmly believe that Xbox needs exclusives, but I also firmly believe that changes need to be made to Game Pass to make exclusives work. Without those changes, console exclusives will simply fail to make enough money to continue...
Again, fair enough, @AverageGamer. It's difficult to know the full facts. I do think we can agree that they either will not be working on as many games concurrently, or they will do that, and take longer than they have to get their games out. With fewer staff it has to be one or the other...
Completely disagree, @Millionski. This is just one person taking a better job opportunity. I don't think this means any more than that. If Helix bombs, and Xbox is still in the doldrums a couple of years after that, then maybe, but we're not there yet. People leave their jobs for better opportunities all the time, and I think that is all there is to it...
I agree that Sony will likely not be able to swallow another series of failures when it comes to their Live Service games, @FreasurePlanten. I don't hold out much hope for their next offering too (the name of which escapes me right now, but I know it has not been received well so far).
As for Bungie, I'm not sure what Sony are going to do with them to be honest. I like Destiny (albeit I only play the bits that can be played solo), but Marathon holds no interest for me, and I cannot see it surviving well into next year. If Marathon does come to an end, what Sony will do with Bungie after that is up for debate. Hopefully Sony will get them to make Destiny 3, but I can also see them closing down as I am sure Sony are very unhappy with them, which is a shame as they are a talented studio.
I think Sony will keep chasing that successful Live Service game they can call their own (as obviously they do not have full control over Helldivers 2), but I think they will put far more emphasis on their single-player games in the future because they are generally very successful in that sphere.
Personally, I don't think Helix (as we know it from when it was conceived by Bond) will sell in particularly large numbers because it sounds like it will be a very expensive item. However, if Microsoft redesign it to a more console like device, then it will likely be a lot cheaper, and then it may sell in the type of numbers to afford Xbox more success.
I think we'll potentially find out more later this year because I think Helix will release next year as Xbox has more to gain from getting out the starting block first than Sony do despite the component crisis.
I think it highly unlikely that I wouldn't get Helix, but I am less interested in it being a PC than many on here as I much prefer the console experience...
Whilst I partially agree with your sentiments, @InterceptorAlpha, it is also true that companies may feel that a particular position only warrants a certain level of remuneration. Microsoft may feel that the position is paid more than enough already, and let's face it, any money Microsoft pay to fill a certain roll has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere is us, the user.
I mean, if someone throws a boatload of money at you to work at their company, and it is significantly more than you are earning in your current role, then who wouldn't take it?
Loyalty can only stretch so far, particuarly when you have the opportunity to set yourself and your family up for life.
Basically I agree, this is a complete non-story when it comes to this particular individual, and now someone else will be given the opportunity at Xbox. People come and go all the time, so good luck to him.
When it comes to AI poaching staff from gaming, that is another matter, but it's not like there isn't a great deal of talent in gaming that can be tapped...
Fair enough, @AverageGamer. Truth be told I was a little sceptical of the 8 years anyway, particularly when you compare that to the speed of the subsequent games (albeit they had more staff and could reuse assets)....
There is no doubt in my mind that Sharma is conducting an experiment when it comes to exclusivity, @FreasurePlanten. Future exclusivity probably rests on the shoulders of E-Day, although how Halo, Fable, and Forza Horizon 6 perform on PS6 will also be part of that calculation.
Basically, if E-Day does not sell well on Xbox (so discounting Steam), nor does it create further sales of Xbox consoles or Game Pass subscriptions, then that is one side of the coin, but if Halo, Fable, and Forza Horizon 6 sell really well on PlayStation, then I think future exclusivity will be very much in doubt. Aside from perhaps smaller games (of which there will be fewer as Xbox will not be creating as many of those), I think the big AAA games will end us as multiplatform titles.
I agree that we will see some mixed messaging from the Xbox leadership for the foreseeable future whilst they settle on an approach, and also give them time to fully evaluate the numbers. I think that is fair enough, truth be told, Sharma needs to see and understand the full picture so that she can make the right decisions for Xbox. We might not like not being in the loop, but I think we would all rather she got it right.
As for Sony, I actually think their position is a lot clearer; if a game is Live Service expect it to launch everywhere day and date (and that includes Xbox). If the game is one of their single-player games it will be exclusive.
Now, that does not mean that Sony's position might not change in the future. If the numbers are still not working, or if their is a change in leadership, then their plans could well change. However, right now, I think their position is not only right for them, but pretty clear for everyone to understand.
Certainly going to be interesting to watch everything unfold, and hopefully both companies can find success with whatever the outcome is because we need them to win, if we are to win as gamers...
I think the truth is that something pretty drastic has to change, @Millionski. Exactly what that will be, I have no idea. I have suggestions, but what they will actually do is another matter entirely.
All I can say is that Microsoft began putting one time Xbox exclusives on PlayStation for a reason, and it's all well and good Microsoft pivoting back to having exclusives, but what has changed since just prior to the 'just 4 games' moment? If the situation necessitated putting exclusives on PlayStation back then, what is different now?
Personally, I'd argue that not much has changed, and if anything, the financials are more worrying now than they were back then, so surely Microsoft have to do something to make the numbers work in their favour.
I know removing day one first-party games from Game Pass will not be popular, but if it means that Xbox can turn a profit, that studios will survive, and games sell enough to warrant more games being made, then surely that is better than the alternative of more studios being spun off, job loses, and game cancellations, or worse case scenario, Xbox being sold off.
Basically, I cannot see how things can continue as they are, and Microsoft be willing to keep Xbox afloat, but then I'm not in possession of all the facts, and it may not be as bad as all that. So who knows...?
That sounds easy enough, @HelloCraigo. I will have to take a look at some point. So many great games, yet so often I return to my favourites, of which XCOM and XCOM 2 are two...
Ahh, right, I wasn't sure about Steam, @ILuvGames. I do seem to recall seeing how some games have sold on there in the past, but as you say, it may have come from the developers rather than Steam themselves.
I am hoping E-Day does well there though because I think that could keep the franchise alive even if sales on Xbox are weak.
I think it is a game that I shall see what others make of it once it releases, @Jenkinss. I'm sure we'll get a bet understanding of the mechanics once it has been in the wild for a while. If it is a game that you have to rush through, it won't be for me anyway, as I like to take my time and explore everywhere. I'm not sure you can really do that in an extraction game, though I also do not speak from experience as I have never played such a game. As you say, the fact that you can be robbed in Sea of Thieves is one of the reasons I have never played that game either...
Yes, if it is an extraction game, I don't think it will be for me, @ILuvGames. I like to stroll around and search every nook and cranny, loot everything, and pick up endless items that I have no use for. I really don't enjoy games where you have to rush through them such as Left 4 Dead etc., and I've never played an extraction game because it doesn't sound like my cup of tea.
I hope you enjoy Hell Is Us as much as I did. I found the game really interesting as you searched around trying to make sense of what was going on. You'll have to let me know what you think of it, but it was one of my favourite games of last year.
My day is going very well, thank you, and I hope yours is going well too. Will you be getting in on the Beta action for E-Day...?
I agree, @IllusiveMan, there is no doubt that there is a problem, but how it will be resolved, I have no real idea. It will be fascinating to watch unfold though...
This goes to show why Game Pass is such a good deal for gamers, @Master_Cthulhu70, but it also highlights why Xbox has such a problem with their financials. Goodness knows how they are going to resolve their issues without alienating a good many players in the process...
Not really, @betterthings, but it does have some similarities such as parrying and stamina. You can enable or disable some features in the settings to make things easier or more difficult if you so choose. However the biggest differentiator between Hell Is Us and souls games is that it does have difficulty settings, which of course souls games don't.
Honestly though, as the game is going on Game Pass, you can spend an hour on it and make your own mind up, but I don't think you'll be disappointed as it is a very interesting game. Oh, and the challenge I was speaking of is more to do with some of the puzzles because in that regard the game does not hold your hand, although I played it when it first came out, and by now the internet will be awash with the solutions in a way it was not in the beginning
That does sound awesome, @HelloCraigo, as I absolutely love XCOM 2, and have several hundred hours in it. I only finished it recently on my Pro, but I have also played it on my PC and countless times on my Series X.
I have no idea what I'm doing on PC so I have never attempted to mod a game. I think it something to do with inserting code into the games existing code, but I really would not know where to start.
Although I have a decent gaming PC, I haven't played on it for a couple of years because it is not my preferred platform, but I might just have to try modding XCOM 2 because that does sound pretty interesting...
I do love my Horde, @Jenkinss, but it is a shooter, which I don't believe Mistfall Hunter is. I play Horde with a mate and my youngest son (23), but I don't think this game shares any similarities with Gears of War. I could well be mistaken on that, but from what I have seen, I really don't think my two buds would be interested in this game in the slightest.
I also did not realise it was an extraction game, which is something that I have never played mainly because I would never screw anyone else over at the end of a run, and would hate it being done to me.
I obviously have not play Arc Raiders, for the reasons mentioned above, but are you telling me that I could play that game entirely solo without anyone else being around? And am I able to access the entire game, or just some of it?
I think I have read before that people do go in solo, and that other players are present, but I have also read that you get griefers in there who then attack you come the end intent on spoiling the game for solo players.
Anyway, I don't think my mate or my son would be up for Mistfall Hunter as it's not really their type of game, though I will mention it to them...
I really enjoyed Hell Is Us, @Titntin & @MrStark. It can be a little challenging at times, and not everything is straightforward, but it is worth finishing...
I loved Gears Tactics, @Markatron84, and I have completed it a few times including on Insane, which turned out to be one of my proudest Achievement unlocks.
It's such a good game, and I'd love them to make a sequel. Problem is I don't imagine it found a lot of success, so chances are in the Xbox of today, a sequel probably would not be greenlit, which really is a shame...
Some interesting games there; I have the Collector's Edition if Halo Combat Evolved, but it's for Steam as it was the only version I could get, so I'll be playing the game on Game Pass as soon as it comes out.
I am also interested in Beast of Reincarnation, although I want to see some hands on reviews so that I can determine whether to buy it or play it via Game Pass (or avoid it completely!).
I was interested in Mistfall Hunter until I realised it was a co-op game, and then my interest waned. Will check out the reviews to see whether it can be played wholly solo, and if so, and the reviews are good, I might play that too (time permitting).
For anyone that has not played Hell Is Us, I thought it was a really enjoyable game, so hopefully it finds some success on Game Pass and it leads to a sequel...
What needs to be made is a turn-based Halo in the vein of Gears Tactics. I'm honestly surprised this hasn't happened yet. I'd also love a sequel to Gears Tactics, but that's another matter...
Me too, @Coletrain. I do an annual pilgrimage through every every campaign, playing them in canonical order (so Judgement first), all the way through to Gears 5 and then Hivebusters. I also play through the DLC that was released with 3. I've already played through them all this year.
Obviously next years pilgrimage will start with E-Day, which will spice things up a little. I've been going through each campaign each year since Gears 2 arrived, so been doing it a while now. Still a little salty over them not finishing the story for the current trilogy though, because chances are I won't be alive for Gears 6 if they do a trilogy for E-Day, which I expect they plan to do (I say plan because I guess it depends on how well E-Day does)...
Do we know exactly what modes will be available for E-Day, @FraserG? I can see that it has said multiplayer, but does that mean PvP multiplayer, or could it include PvE (Horde)? Also, are there any rewards for taking part?
I think that is a good shout, @Ruudi9. If Microsoft can find a way to make 3 months of Game Pass cost around the same as the cost of buying a first-party AAA game, then it could help, to some degree, offsetting the loses the game would otherwise make. Obviously it would not stop someone from playing multiple titles, and thus playing far more than the admission fees worth of games, but it would perhaps stop someone paying for just one months entry in an entire year, and playing one or more titles that they might otherwise have bought.
Let me explain why I think the issue needs to be resolved, @Sol4ris, even if it is done in a way that we do not like.
It is pretty simple really, Xbox is shrinking because it is not making enough money, and it's first-party games are not making anywhere near enough money because of Game Pass.
We've just seen 4 studios removed from Microsoft's ownership, and I very much doubt that will be the last of it. We may see further studios go this year (including inXile), and I would not be shocked in the slightest we are back in this position in June next year with Xbox needing to offload further studios.
The reason I say that Xbox needs to make drastic decisions with regards to Game Pass is so as to limit the damage it is doing to Xbox. In other words, keeping Game Pass as is will quite probably result in further studio closures, and job loses. That means that some of our favourite studios and franchises might go to the wall. Heck, even Xbox could close shop if things continue as they are. That's obviously a worst case scenario, but it is not out of the question, and we saw rumours of this not that long ago.
In other words, is having day one games on Game Pass worth the risk of your favourite studios being closed, or your favourite franchises no longer being made? The stakes are really that high, because the risks are very real...
I absolutely agree with your sentiments, @IllusiveMan, but you have to wonder whether Game Pass has actually helped with Xbox console sales. You have to wonder how many people bought a Series console specifically to play games on Game Pass, how many bought one as secondary console (to their PlayStation or Switch) just for that purpose. In other words, how many fewer Xbox consoles would have been sold had Game Pass not offered day one games? I bet it would account for at least a few million less. I mean, there was a poll the other day on Push Square that suggested that something like 20% of their gamers also owned an Xbox. Obviously, there would have been some, like myself, that primarily game on an Xbox, but own a PlayStation too, but the likelihood is that most of that 20% owned an Xbox as a secondary console, and many of them probably use it primarily as a Game Pass console. So, whilst I agree that Game Pass has not driven Xbox console sales in the way that Xbox had hoped, I bet it still has had a positive effect. You have to wonder how much more dire Xbox console sales would have been without Game Pass...
It is unfortunate that we will not be told by Microsoft how many copies of the game actually sell on Xbox, @ILuvGames. We might get a better idea from Steam though. I'm not sure whether Valve release sales numbers, or whether we can just see it over there. It might just be a case of having to work it out based on player numbers, but I think the one thing that is almost certain is that E-Day will be saved (or at least massively helped) by Steam sales. Whether or not it makes it's money back in quick order, I don't know, but I guess that depends on whether the $400 million rumour is actually true. It'll probably turn a profit eventually, but much of that will probably be driven by Steam...
Good to know, @Kilamanjaro. Thank you. Like I say, I do plan on playing it at some point. As it happens, I pre-ordered the Collector's Edition, which remains unopened, but came with a code for the game, which I have redeemed, so I really should get to it at some point. I am wating for Bethesda to say they are done with the game, and then I will try to find the time to play it, but I much prefer to play the 'complete' edition, rather than trying to either replay a really big game and all the DLC, or trying to get back into a game that I started ages ago, and then had to stop whilst waiting for the DLC.
So, basically, the plan is to play it when they're done with it...
I've not played the game, @Kilamanjaro, and it remains as one of those games I really want to get to at some point, but one of the things that has put me off it is the (what I believe to be a stupid) decision to have a thousand empty planets, and a handful of occupied ones that then resort to copy and paste establishments.
I would far rather they had just done 10 bespoke planets that you could visit, all of which felt unique (as much as that is possible). It just seems to me that the feature that Bethesda tried to sell the game on, is actually the feature that put the most people off playing the game.
As I say, I haven't played the game, so I may be well off in my assessment...
Thanks, @Grumblevolcano. I didn't even look at that!
I have bought the Collector's Edition, which comes with the Premium content, but I could only get the American version meaning it won't play here in the UK, so I then bought the Premium Edition too even though all the skins etc. really don't interest me at all, but I know I will probably put a couple of thousand hours into it (assuming it has a traditional Horde mode) just as I have with Gears 5, so to me it makes sense to own the best edition. However, despite having sunk well over 2000 hours into Gears 5, I never once bought any of the other 'tat' that was available to buy with real world currency. If I could not earn it, I went without, and didn't miss any of it at all...
I you are right to say that people should not work for an employer that they do no agree with, @Sol4ris, although we all know it is not always that simple. Sometimes needs must. If you have a mortgage and a family, and work in an industry offering so little stability, sometimes it is better the devil you know even if you don't wholeheartedly agree with them.
I also understand your point about you paying for the service and therefore expecting something in return. That is why I have never once said that people should not play first-party games on Game Pass. If Microsoft choose to put the games on there, then people should fill their boots. They have paid their subs, so it is absolutely their right to play the games that way.
Of course, the problem is at Microsoft's end, and if the service is not offering them value for money, then they have to make changes, even if we don't like it. Once the changes have been made, then it is up to us whether we remain subscribed or not, although for those of us that have stacked our subscriptions based on the promise of day one games, that then becomes a problem that I am not sure how Microsoft unpicks because we know they will end up facing some sort of lawsuit if they make such fundamental changes, and the only way I can see them working that particular issue out is to offer refunds, although I don't think even that would appease the more strident voices, and it would cost Microsoft a fortune...
Take a look at Gears 5, @MinervaX76. It is undoubtedly monetised to the hilt! You can buy in game currency with real world money, you can buy skins and bundles of skins and weapon skins with real world money. You can buy extra characters for use in multiplayer with real world money. You can buy iron (the in-game currency) weapon skins, bloodsprays, banners, and characters skins.
Honestly, it is something that screams at you to spend money if you want certain things, and some of the content cannot be earned at all. It has to be bought. The only thing it does not do is offer you the ability to advance your rank by paying money, which I know is something some other games do.
I cannot imagine that E-Day will be any different at all. It will be deeply monetised...
I think the problem is we all know that Game Pass is probably the biggest problem that Xbox faces. It is a real dilemma.
From the perspective of the consumer, day one games on Game Pass is fantastic, but from a financial perspective it is an absolute disaster for Xbox and for the studio that made the game.
We only need to be aware of other people's thoughts on this subject to see people say they would leave Xbox if Game Pass did not have day one releases to see how difficult this is to resolve for Microsoft.
The truth is this; it is a fantastic deal for us consumers, and it is a great reason to have Game Pass, and a great incentive to own an Xbox, however, the reverse of that is a problem for Microsoft because day one games is costing Microsoft millions that they are not making back in either people buying Xboxes or paying for Game Pass subscriptions. It is quite literally hurting Xbox, yet the solution, which involves removing day one games, will also hurt Xbox. The day one games is the differentiator that attracts and retains people in the Xbox ecosystem precisely because the deal is too good to be true, yet any steps Microsoft take to stem their financial woes, could turn away the very people they need to keep Xbox afloat.
It really is a quandary for Xbox and I am glad that I am not making the decision myself as to what they do about it. I do think that decision is coming though, and I don't think it will be a popular decision when it arrives, albeit it will be a necessary one...
We are going to have to disagree here, @Coletrain, there is a massive difference between adding some occasional skins, and adding maps, modes, skins, having seasons and having your progress reset as happens in Gears of War.
So what you are saying, is Gears of War is a Live Service game with a campaign, but the campaign means it is not a Live Service game, which makes no sense to me. If they released E-Day without the campaign, it would be a Live Service game, but because it has a campaign, it isn't.
Nope! Makes no sense to me. People will play the campaign for 20 hours (which is apparently how long it is) and then play the Live Service component for hundreds, maybe thousands, of hours...
I have over 2000 hours in Gears 5, @Schonks, so I fully understand what you mean when some will play it for a very long time (I still play it 3 days a week and have done since it first released). However, I am in the minority, the vast majority will play the campaign and move on, or play the campaign and dabble in the multiplayer and move on after just a month or so. I'll still be playing E-Day when GTA 6 drops, for example, but many of us won't.
The point is, few will play the game consistently for a month or more. Some will drop in and drop out before dropping back in for a while, but most will play it briefly and move on to their next game of choice...
I understand what you are saying, @fatpunkslim, but as Avowed could not stand on its own two legs, should it still have been made?
Look at it this way, if Obsidian Entertainment were independent, firstly, would they have made the game, and secondly, if they had, would they not have risked either going bust, or being substantially downsized?
My point being that every game that gets made should be at least capable of breaking even, but really should be aiming to turn a profit. Basically, it should not be the case that a studio relies on the success of other games, made by other studios, to keep them afloat. It would not happen if the studio were independent, and should not happen if they are owned by the likes of Xbox. And this is precisely why we have seen the 4 studios recently spun off; if they cannot turn a profit on their own, they are of no use to Xbox (particularly not in their current state).
I get that you personally enjoyed Avowed, and I have not played it so I do not have a horse in this race, but I really do not think that Xbox can afford to have 'passion projects' that are unlikely to turn a profit right now. They need big wow games that are going to make people want to game on an Xbox...
It is a Live Service game, @Questionable_Duck, just as Gears 5 was:
Question (into Bing): Is Gears 5 a Live Service game?
Answer: Yes, Gears 5 is a live service game. It continues to have active servers and multiplayer options, allowing players to engage in various game modes.
Question (into Google): Is Gears 5 a Live Service game?
Gears 5 like many of Microsoft's multiplayer offerings (and multiplayer games in general in 2019) is a live service game, complete with incentives to continue playing, atop a promise of free content drops on a regular cadence.
This is the definition of a Live Service game taken from Yahoo:
Live service game Revenue model in which new content is continuously provided in a video game, thus increasing replay value and long-term motivation.
I'm not making it up, these are the answers that comes back.
E-Day will follow the exact same Live Service model as Gears 5, and just like Gears 5, you can possibly play the campaign (and only the campaign) offline but not in co-op. All the other modes will require you to be online...
You didn't tag me into your comment, @Schonks, but I never suggested that Game Pass was free. However, if you play E-Day for an entire month on Game Pass, you will have paid £22.99 to play the game. If you buy it, and play it for a month, it'll cost you £70.
We know that the majority will play it via Game Pass, so unless people play it for more than 3 months, Microsoft will receive less money for the game than they would had people bought the game.
Truth is, most people will play the campaign, and maybe a bit of the multiplayer, and then move on to something else. In other words, whilst most people will play it via Game Pass (as is their right), most won't play it for even a month.
Playing it via Game Pass leaves an awful lot of money on the table for Xbox. An awful lot...
Fable will do well, as will Forza 6, @Mr-Cage, and so could E-Day.
However, if E-Day is not going to make a difference, what is the point in keeping it as a console exclusive?
What is the point of an exclusive if not to attract people into a particular ecosystem?
This is the reason why E-Day has been kept as an exclusive. Sharma and co. believe the game will draw new people into the Xbox ecosystem.
What I will say though is if E-Day won't attract new blood on to Xbox, and neither Fable nor Forza Horizon are being used as such, what games will? What games does Xbox have coming out in the next couple of years that will grow Xbox? Once Fable comes out, what big AAA game is there...?
The campaign is not evolving, @Mr-Cage, or at least I highly doubt it is. The campaign is one small part of the game, it also has PvP and PvE, and it that which is evolving. There will be more maps, maybe more modes, more skins, more bloodsprays and banners (assuming they do that again). There will be ways to buy additional currency, and there will be seasons.
Forza has a campaign, and is considered a Live Service game. Destiny has a campaign, and is considered a Live Service game. Diablo has a campaign, and is considered a Live Service game. E-Day is no different.
If you do a search on Halo Infinite, it says it was a Live Service game, but is not now because they have stopped adding content to it.
I am curious what you think constitutes a Live Service game though...?
What I think they should have done with E-Day, @TrollOfWar, if they were not going to release the entire game on PlayStation is to release the Live Service element on PlayStation, but not the campaign. Reduce the price to reflect that it does not include the campaign, so perhaps £40 or £50 on PlayStation, and the full £70 on Xbox.
I understand the notion of trying to appease the more rabid parts of the Xbox community by making it exclusive (to consoles), but all that will happen is that they will harm Xbox, harm the studio, and potentially harm the franchise. The game could have been one of those games that brought in hundreds of millions if sold on PlayStation as well. It could have been one of those really big Live Service games that all these companies are pursuing, and so it makes no sense whatsoever to have made it a console exclusive.
We all know the vast majority of people will play the game via Game Pass on Xbox (and I assume many will on PC too), but we also know that means it will not sell particularly well on Xbox, and why should people buy it when it is available on Game Pass? That is, after all, why that have Game Pass. It is just as well that it is available on Steam as well because if it were not, the game could well be a financial disaster (it still could be if it did cost the rumoured $400 million), yet if it had been sold on PlayStation too, that would have been an unlikely outcome.
I do think that Sharma will be keeping a very close eye on this game, and could indeed be using it as a test case for future console exclusivity. It is, after all, one of the pillar titles that Xbox has, and if it does not result in a surge in console sales, subscription sales, nor game sales, then she might take Xbox back to the drawing board when it comes to exclusivity, because if a game such as E-Day can't make the financials favourable, then there really is no other game in the Xbox armoury that could except perhaps Fallout or Elder Scrolls 6, but making those games exclusive would be a huge risk, and in the case of Elder Scrolls 6, that is years away (by which time I think the issue of exclusivity will have been settled anyway)...
Gears of War is absolutely 100% a Live Service game, @Mr-Cage. Of that there is absolutely no doubt at all.
According to Co-Pilot, a Live Service game is:
A live service game is a video game designed to evolve continuously after launch, offering ongoing content, updates, and events to keep players engaged over time.
That is exactly what Gears of War has become, and I would agree that GoW 1, 2, and 3 were no Live Service games, but that is what the games have become, and if you search whether the game was a Live Service game, the answer comes back as 'Yes'...
I'm still very much in the dark when it comes to Sharma's very confusing strategy.
On the one hand, we have Forza Horizon 6 going to PlayStation. Why? Because it is a Live Service game (and was previously announced). Totally get that, and it is absolutely the right decision.
On the other hand, we have Gears of War: E-Day not going to PlayStation. Why? Because it was not previously announced? Okay, that bit I understand, but it is a Live Service game. Therefore it is a game that needs a big community for it to so well. So this is absolutely the wrong decision, and it makes no sense whatsoever...
You and I are totally aligned when it comes to our lack of interest in GTA 6, @ILuvGames. I am very much looking forward to E-Day, although I right now I am pretty apprehensive about the apparent lack of a normal Horde mode.
I will do what I always do when it comes to the Campaign; I will play it through solo on Hardcore (or whatever they choose to call it this time), and then play it through solo on Insane. Finally, I will play through it on an easier setting to catch any collectibles that I might have missed,, albeit I am pretty thorough in my exploration even on the harder difficulties.
I do wish they would have an Achievement for playing the game on Insane solo. Doing it in co-op is so much easier than doing it solo, and that should be recognised by way of a solo Achievement.
Unfortunately, I think if they do not have a traditional 5 player Horde mode, then once I have been through the Campaign a couple of times, that will be done with the game until my annual pilgrimage through each of the Campaigns, which when you consider I have put well over 2000 hours into Gears 5, is a real shame.
I guess my fingers will have to remain firmly crossed until October...
Comments 5,492
Re: Xbox CCO Says Not To 'Overly Fixate' On All Single-Player Games Being Exclusives
I think we all know that Live Service only applies to games with a multiplayer component, @Millionski. I mean, Destiny is a Live Service game, yet you can play much of it solo. Call of Duty has a single-player component, but it is essentially a multiplayer game, yet is deemed a Live Service game.
If you Google Gears 5 it says it is a Live Service game (or was), and there is nothing different about what will be offered by E-Day. We know they will be adding more content, and that it will have seasons (albeit they're not called seasons in Gears of War) that will reset your progress.
Regardless of whether or not people want to accept that it is a Live Service game, surely no one can believe that the game would not have done incredibly well on PlayStation, and it could have made a huge financial difference to Xbox in a way that keeping it as a console exclusive is unlikely to do. A game of this nature, with cross-platform play, would have thrived, and bought in millions for Xbox, and I remain convinced that it is a mistake to have pulled it from PlayStation. I do firmly believe that Xbox needs exclusives, but I also firmly believe that changes need to be made to Game Pass to make exclusives work. Without those changes, console exclusives will simply fail to make enough money to continue...
Re: DOOM Director Elaborates On The State Of The Studio Going Forward
Again, fair enough, @AverageGamer. It's difficult to know the full facts. I do think we can agree that they either will not be working on as many games concurrently, or they will do that, and take longer than they have to get their games out. With fewer staff it has to be one or the other...
Re: Key New Xbox Employee Leaves After Three Months, But Reporter Argues It's A 'Non-Story'
Completely disagree, @Millionski. This is just one person taking a better job opportunity. I don't think this means any more than that. If Helix bombs, and Xbox is still in the doldrums a couple of years after that, then maybe, but we're not there yet. People leave their jobs for better opportunities all the time, and I think that is all there is to it...
Re: Reporter Claims Game Pass Is 'Absolutely Detested' By Some Xbox Studio Leaders
I agree that Sony will likely not be able to swallow another series of failures when it comes to their Live Service games, @FreasurePlanten. I don't hold out much hope for their next offering too (the name of which escapes me right now, but I know it has not been received well so far).
As for Bungie, I'm not sure what Sony are going to do with them to be honest. I like Destiny (albeit I only play the bits that can be played solo), but Marathon holds no interest for me, and I cannot see it surviving well into next year. If Marathon does come to an end, what Sony will do with Bungie after that is up for debate. Hopefully Sony will get them to make Destiny 3, but I can also see them closing down as I am sure Sony are very unhappy with them, which is a shame as they are a talented studio.
I think Sony will keep chasing that successful Live Service game they can call their own (as obviously they do not have full control over Helldivers 2), but I think they will put far more emphasis on their single-player games in the future because they are generally very successful in that sphere.
Personally, I don't think Helix (as we know it from when it was conceived by Bond) will sell in particularly large numbers because it sounds like it will be a very expensive item. However, if Microsoft redesign it to a more console like device, then it will likely be a lot cheaper, and then it may sell in the type of numbers to afford Xbox more success.
I think we'll potentially find out more later this year because I think Helix will release next year as Xbox has more to gain from getting out the starting block first than Sony do despite the component crisis.
I think it highly unlikely that I wouldn't get Helix, but I am less interested in it being a PC than many on here as I much prefer the console experience...
Re: Key New Xbox Employee Leaves After Three Months, But Reporter Argues It's A 'Non-Story'
Whilst I partially agree with your sentiments, @InterceptorAlpha, it is also true that companies may feel that a particular position only warrants a certain level of remuneration. Microsoft may feel that the position is paid more than enough already, and let's face it, any money Microsoft pay to fill a certain roll has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere is us, the user.
Re: Key New Xbox Employee Leaves After Three Months, But Reporter Argues It's A 'Non-Story'
I mean, if someone throws a boatload of money at you to work at their company, and it is significantly more than you are earning in your current role, then who wouldn't take it?
Loyalty can only stretch so far, particuarly when you have the opportunity to set yourself and your family up for life.
Basically I agree, this is a complete non-story when it comes to this particular individual, and now someone else will be given the opportunity at Xbox. People come and go all the time, so good luck to him.
When it comes to AI poaching staff from gaming, that is another matter, but it's not like there isn't a great deal of talent in gaming that can be tapped...
Re: DOOM Director Elaborates On The State Of The Studio Going Forward
Fair enough, @AverageGamer. Truth be told I was a little sceptical of the 8 years anyway, particularly when you compare that to the speed of the subsequent games (albeit they had more staff and could reuse assets)....
Re: Reporter Claims Game Pass Is 'Absolutely Detested' By Some Xbox Studio Leaders
There is no doubt in my mind that Sharma is conducting an experiment when it comes to exclusivity, @FreasurePlanten. Future exclusivity probably rests on the shoulders of E-Day, although how Halo, Fable, and Forza Horizon 6 perform on PS6 will also be part of that calculation.
Basically, if E-Day does not sell well on Xbox (so discounting Steam), nor does it create further sales of Xbox consoles or Game Pass subscriptions, then that is one side of the coin, but if Halo, Fable, and Forza Horizon 6 sell really well on PlayStation, then I think future exclusivity will be very much in doubt. Aside from perhaps smaller games (of which there will be fewer as Xbox will not be creating as many of those), I think the big AAA games will end us as multiplatform titles.
I agree that we will see some mixed messaging from the Xbox leadership for the foreseeable future whilst they settle on an approach, and also give them time to fully evaluate the numbers. I think that is fair enough, truth be told, Sharma needs to see and understand the full picture so that she can make the right decisions for Xbox. We might not like not being in the loop, but I think we would all rather she got it right.
As for Sony, I actually think their position is a lot clearer; if a game is Live Service expect it to launch everywhere day and date (and that includes Xbox). If the game is one of their single-player games it will be exclusive.
Now, that does not mean that Sony's position might not change in the future. If the numbers are still not working, or if their is a change in leadership, then their plans could well change. However, right now, I think their position is not only right for them, but pretty clear for everyone to understand.
Certainly going to be interesting to watch everything unfold, and hopefully both companies can find success with whatever the outcome is because we need them to win, if we are to win as gamers...
Re: Reporter Claims Game Pass Is 'Absolutely Detested' By Some Xbox Studio Leaders
I think the truth is that something pretty drastic has to change, @Millionski. Exactly what that will be, I have no idea. I have suggestions, but what they will actually do is another matter entirely.
All I can say is that Microsoft began putting one time Xbox exclusives on PlayStation for a reason, and it's all well and good Microsoft pivoting back to having exclusives, but what has changed since just prior to the 'just 4 games' moment? If the situation necessitated putting exclusives on PlayStation back then, what is different now?
Personally, I'd argue that not much has changed, and if anything, the financials are more worrying now than they were back then, so surely Microsoft have to do something to make the numbers work in their favour.
I know removing day one first-party games from Game Pass will not be popular, but if it means that Xbox can turn a profit, that studios will survive, and games sell enough to warrant more games being made, then surely that is better than the alternative of more studios being spun off, job loses, and game cancellations, or worse case scenario, Xbox being sold off.
Basically, I cannot see how things can continue as they are, and Microsoft be willing to keep Xbox afloat, but then I'm not in possession of all the facts, and it may not be as bad as all that. So who knows...?
Re: Ex-Forza Horizon Director Jokes About Making Xbox's Next Halo
That sounds easy enough, @HelloCraigo. I will have to take a look at some point. So many great games, yet so often I return to my favourites, of which XCOM and XCOM 2 are two...
Re: Reporter Claims Game Pass Is 'Absolutely Detested' By Some Xbox Studio Leaders
Ahh, right, I wasn't sure about Steam, @ILuvGames. I do seem to recall seeing how some games have sold on there in the past, but as you say, it may have come from the developers rather than Steam themselves.
I am hoping E-Day does well there though because I think that could keep the franchise alive even if sales on Xbox are weak.
Fingers are firmly crossed...
Re: These Seven Games Are Coming To Xbox Game Pass (July 22 - August 4)
I think it is a game that I shall see what others make of it once it releases, @Jenkinss. I'm sure we'll get a bet understanding of the mechanics once it has been in the wild for a while. If it is a game that you have to rush through, it won't be for me anyway, as I like to take my time and explore everywhere. I'm not sure you can really do that in an extraction game, though I also do not speak from experience as I have never played such a game. As you say, the fact that you can be robbed in Sea of Thieves is one of the reasons I have never played that game either...
Re: These Seven Games Are Coming To Xbox Game Pass (July 22 - August 4)
Yes, if it is an extraction game, I don't think it will be for me, @ILuvGames. I like to stroll around and search every nook and cranny, loot everything, and pick up endless items that I have no use for. I really don't enjoy games where you have to rush through them such as Left 4 Dead etc., and I've never played an extraction game because it doesn't sound like my cup of tea.
I hope you enjoy Hell Is Us as much as I did. I found the game really interesting as you searched around trying to make sense of what was going on. You'll have to let me know what you think of it, but it was one of my favourite games of last year.
My day is going very well, thank you, and I hope yours is going well too. Will you be getting in on the Beta action for E-Day...?
Re: Reporter Claims Game Pass Is 'Absolutely Detested' By Some Xbox Studio Leaders
I agree, @IllusiveMan, there is no doubt that there is a problem, but how it will be resolved, I have no real idea. It will be fascinating to watch unfold though...
Re: Beast Of Reincarnation 'Estimated' Length Revealed, Along With Lots Of Other Details
This goes to show why Game Pass is such a good deal for gamers, @Master_Cthulhu70, but it also highlights why Xbox has such a problem with their financials. Goodness knows how they are going to resolve their issues without alienating a good many players in the process...
Re: These Seven Games Are Coming To Xbox Game Pass (July 22 - August 4)
Not really, @betterthings, but it does have some similarities such as parrying and stamina. You can enable or disable some features in the settings to make things easier or more difficult if you so choose. However the biggest differentiator between Hell Is Us and souls games is that it does have difficulty settings, which of course souls games don't.
Honestly though, as the game is going on Game Pass, you can spend an hour on it and make your own mind up, but I don't think you'll be disappointed as it is a very interesting game. Oh, and the challenge I was speaking of is more to do with some of the puzzles because in that regard the game does not hold your hand, although I played it when it first came out, and by now the internet will be awash with the solutions in a way it was not in the beginning
Re: Ex-Forza Horizon Director Jokes About Making Xbox's Next Halo
That does sound awesome, @HelloCraigo, as I absolutely love XCOM 2, and have several hundred hours in it. I only finished it recently on my Pro, but I have also played it on my PC and countless times on my Series X.
I have no idea what I'm doing on PC so I have never attempted to mod a game. I think it something to do with inserting code into the games existing code, but I really would not know where to start.
Although I have a decent gaming PC, I haven't played on it for a couple of years because it is not my preferred platform, but I might just have to try modding XCOM 2 because that does sound pretty interesting...
Re: These Seven Games Are Coming To Xbox Game Pass (July 22 - August 4)
I do love my Horde, @Jenkinss, but it is a shooter, which I don't believe Mistfall Hunter is. I play Horde with a mate and my youngest son (23), but I don't think this game shares any similarities with Gears of War. I could well be mistaken on that, but from what I have seen, I really don't think my two buds would be interested in this game in the slightest.
I also did not realise it was an extraction game, which is something that I have never played mainly because I would never screw anyone else over at the end of a run, and would hate it being done to me.
I obviously have not play Arc Raiders, for the reasons mentioned above, but are you telling me that I could play that game entirely solo without anyone else being around? And am I able to access the entire game, or just some of it?
I think I have read before that people do go in solo, and that other players are present, but I have also read that you get griefers in there who then attack you come the end intent on spoiling the game for solo players.
Anyway, I don't think my mate or my son would be up for Mistfall Hunter as it's not really their type of game, though I will mention it to them...
Re: These Seven Games Are Coming To Xbox Game Pass (July 22 - August 4)
I really enjoyed Hell Is Us, @Titntin & @MrStark. It can be a little challenging at times, and not everything is straightforward, but it is worth finishing...
Re: Ex-Forza Horizon Director Jokes About Making Xbox's Next Halo
I loved Gears Tactics, @Markatron84, and I have completed it a few times including on Insane, which turned out to be one of my proudest Achievement unlocks.
It's such a good game, and I'd love them to make a sequel. Problem is I don't imagine it found a lot of success, so chances are in the Xbox of today, a sequel probably would not be greenlit, which really is a shame...
Re: These Seven Games Are Coming To Xbox Game Pass (July 22 - August 4)
Some interesting games there; I have the Collector's Edition if Halo Combat Evolved, but it's for Steam as it was the only version I could get, so I'll be playing the game on Game Pass as soon as it comes out.
I am also interested in Beast of Reincarnation, although I want to see some hands on reviews so that I can determine whether to buy it or play it via Game Pass (or avoid it completely!).
I was interested in Mistfall Hunter until I realised it was a co-op game, and then my interest waned. Will check out the reviews to see whether it can be played wholly solo, and if so, and the reviews are good, I might play that too (time permitting).
For anyone that has not played Hell Is Us, I thought it was a really enjoyable game, so hopefully it finds some success on Game Pass and it leads to a sequel...
Re: Ex-Forza Horizon Director Jokes About Making Xbox's Next Halo
What needs to be made is a turn-based Halo in the vein of Gears Tactics. I'm honestly surprised this hasn't happened yet. I'd also love a sequel to Gears Tactics, but that's another matter...
Re: Xbox CCO Says Not To 'Overly Fixate' On All Single-Player Games Being Exclusives
Me too, @Coletrain. I do an annual pilgrimage through every every campaign, playing them in canonical order (so Judgement first), all the way through to Gears 5 and then Hivebusters. I also play through the DLC that was released with 3. I've already played through them all this year.
Obviously next years pilgrimage will start with E-Day, which will spice things up a little. I've been going through each campaign each year since Gears 2 arrived, so been doing it a while now. Still a little salty over them not finishing the story for the current trilogy though, because chances are I won't be alive for Gears 6 if they do a trilogy for E-Day, which I expect they plan to do (I say plan because I guess it depends on how well E-Day does)...
Re: Two Massive Betas Are Now Confirmed For Xbox Series X|S In August
Thank you, @FraserG...
Re: Two Massive Betas Are Now Confirmed For Xbox Series X|S In August
Do we know exactly what modes will be available for E-Day, @FraserG? I can see that it has said multiplayer, but does that mean PvP multiplayer, or could it include PvE (Horde)? Also, are there any rewards for taking part?
Thank you...
Re: Xbox CCO Says Not To 'Overly Fixate' On All Single-Player Games Being Exclusives
Ahh, @Coletrain, so you are playing the only bit that is not Live Service... 😂
Re: Reporter Claims Game Pass Is 'Absolutely Detested' By Some Xbox Studio Leaders
I think that is a good shout, @Ruudi9. If Microsoft can find a way to make 3 months of Game Pass cost around the same as the cost of buying a first-party AAA game, then it could help, to some degree, offsetting the loses the game would otherwise make. Obviously it would not stop someone from playing multiple titles, and thus playing far more than the admission fees worth of games, but it would perhaps stop someone paying for just one months entry in an entire year, and playing one or more titles that they might otherwise have bought.
Upshot is, I think that is a good idea...
Re: Reporter Claims Game Pass Is 'Absolutely Detested' By Some Xbox Studio Leaders
Let me explain why I think the issue needs to be resolved, @Sol4ris, even if it is done in a way that we do not like.
It is pretty simple really, Xbox is shrinking because it is not making enough money, and it's first-party games are not making anywhere near enough money because of Game Pass.
We've just seen 4 studios removed from Microsoft's ownership, and I very much doubt that will be the last of it. We may see further studios go this year (including inXile), and I would not be shocked in the slightest we are back in this position in June next year with Xbox needing to offload further studios.
The reason I say that Xbox needs to make drastic decisions with regards to Game Pass is so as to limit the damage it is doing to Xbox. In other words, keeping Game Pass as is will quite probably result in further studio closures, and job loses. That means that some of our favourite studios and franchises might go to the wall. Heck, even Xbox could close shop if things continue as they are. That's obviously a worst case scenario, but it is not out of the question, and we saw rumours of this not that long ago.
In other words, is having day one games on Game Pass worth the risk of your favourite studios being closed, or your favourite franchises no longer being made? The stakes are really that high, because the risks are very real...
Re: Reporter Claims Game Pass Is 'Absolutely Detested' By Some Xbox Studio Leaders
I absolutely agree with your sentiments, @IllusiveMan, but you have to wonder whether Game Pass has actually helped with Xbox console sales. You have to wonder how many people bought a Series console specifically to play games on Game Pass, how many bought one as secondary console (to their PlayStation or Switch) just for that purpose. In other words, how many fewer Xbox consoles would have been sold had Game Pass not offered day one games? I bet it would account for at least a few million less. I mean, there was a poll the other day on Push Square that suggested that something like 20% of their gamers also owned an Xbox. Obviously, there would have been some, like myself, that primarily game on an Xbox, but own a PlayStation too, but the likelihood is that most of that 20% owned an Xbox as a secondary console, and many of them probably use it primarily as a Game Pass console. So, whilst I agree that Game Pass has not driven Xbox console sales in the way that Xbox had hoped, I bet it still has had a positive effect. You have to wonder how much more dire Xbox console sales would have been without Game Pass...
Re: Reporter Claims Game Pass Is 'Absolutely Detested' By Some Xbox Studio Leaders
It is unfortunate that we will not be told by Microsoft how many copies of the game actually sell on Xbox, @ILuvGames. We might get a better idea from Steam though. I'm not sure whether Valve release sales numbers, or whether we can just see it over there. It might just be a case of having to work it out based on player numbers, but I think the one thing that is almost certain is that E-Day will be saved (or at least massively helped) by Steam sales. Whether or not it makes it's money back in quick order, I don't know, but I guess that depends on whether the $400 million rumour is actually true. It'll probably turn a profit eventually, but much of that will probably be driven by Steam...
Re: Xbox Boss Highlights 'Remarkable' Success Of Three Key Franchises At Bethesda
Good to know, @Kilamanjaro. Thank you. Like I say, I do plan on playing it at some point. As it happens, I pre-ordered the Collector's Edition, which remains unopened, but came with a code for the game, which I have redeemed, so I really should get to it at some point. I am wating for Bethesda to say they are done with the game, and then I will try to find the time to play it, but I much prefer to play the 'complete' edition, rather than trying to either replay a really big game and all the DLC, or trying to get back into a game that I started ages ago, and then had to stop whilst waiting for the DLC.
So, basically, the plan is to play it when they're done with it...
Re: Xbox CCO Says Not To 'Overly Fixate' On All Single-Player Games Being Exclusives
What part of the game will you play, then @Coletrain...?
Re: Xbox Boss Highlights 'Remarkable' Success Of Three Key Franchises At Bethesda
I've not played the game, @Kilamanjaro, and it remains as one of those games I really want to get to at some point, but one of the things that has put me off it is the (what I believe to be a stupid) decision to have a thousand empty planets, and a handful of occupied ones that then resort to copy and paste establishments.
I would far rather they had just done 10 bespoke planets that you could visit, all of which felt unique (as much as that is possible). It just seems to me that the feature that Bethesda tried to sell the game on, is actually the feature that put the most people off playing the game.
As I say, I haven't played the game, so I may be well off in my assessment...
Re: Xbox CCO Says Not To 'Overly Fixate' On All Single-Player Games Being Exclusives
Thanks, @Grumblevolcano. I didn't even look at that!
I have bought the Collector's Edition, which comes with the Premium content, but I could only get the American version meaning it won't play here in the UK, so I then bought the Premium Edition too even though all the skins etc. really don't interest me at all, but I know I will probably put a couple of thousand hours into it (assuming it has a traditional Horde mode) just as I have with Gears 5, so to me it makes sense to own the best edition. However, despite having sunk well over 2000 hours into Gears 5, I never once bought any of the other 'tat' that was available to buy with real world currency. If I could not earn it, I went without, and didn't miss any of it at all...
Re: Reporter Claims Game Pass Is 'Absolutely Detested' By Some Xbox Studio Leaders
I you are right to say that people should not work for an employer that they do no agree with, @Sol4ris, although we all know it is not always that simple. Sometimes needs must. If you have a mortgage and a family, and work in an industry offering so little stability, sometimes it is better the devil you know even if you don't wholeheartedly agree with them.
I also understand your point about you paying for the service and therefore expecting something in return. That is why I have never once said that people should not play first-party games on Game Pass. If Microsoft choose to put the games on there, then people should fill their boots. They have paid their subs, so it is absolutely their right to play the games that way.
Of course, the problem is at Microsoft's end, and if the service is not offering them value for money, then they have to make changes, even if we don't like it. Once the changes have been made, then it is up to us whether we remain subscribed or not, although for those of us that have stacked our subscriptions based on the promise of day one games, that then becomes a problem that I am not sure how Microsoft unpicks because we know they will end up facing some sort of lawsuit if they make such fundamental changes, and the only way I can see them working that particular issue out is to offer refunds, although I don't think even that would appease the more strident voices, and it would cost Microsoft a fortune...
Re: Xbox CCO Says Not To 'Overly Fixate' On All Single-Player Games Being Exclusives
Take a look at Gears 5, @MinervaX76. It is undoubtedly monetised to the hilt! You can buy in game currency with real world money, you can buy skins and bundles of skins and weapon skins with real world money. You can buy extra characters for use in multiplayer with real world money. You can buy iron (the in-game currency) weapon skins, bloodsprays, banners, and characters skins.
Honestly, it is something that screams at you to spend money if you want certain things, and some of the content cannot be earned at all. It has to be bought. The only thing it does not do is offer you the ability to advance your rank by paying money, which I know is something some other games do.
I cannot imagine that E-Day will be any different at all. It will be deeply monetised...
Re: Xbox CCO Says Not To 'Overly Fixate' On All Single-Player Games Being Exclusives
Riiight @Questionable_Duck. So it's not a Large Live Service game, just a Live Service game, but isn't that what I am saying anyway...? 😂
To me, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it is without question, a duck... 😉
Re: Reporter Claims Game Pass Is 'Absolutely Detested' By Some Xbox Studio Leaders
I think the problem is we all know that Game Pass is probably the biggest problem that Xbox faces. It is a real dilemma.
From the perspective of the consumer, day one games on Game Pass is fantastic, but from a financial perspective it is an absolute disaster for Xbox and for the studio that made the game.
We only need to be aware of other people's thoughts on this subject to see people say they would leave Xbox if Game Pass did not have day one releases to see how difficult this is to resolve for Microsoft.
The truth is this; it is a fantastic deal for us consumers, and it is a great reason to have Game Pass, and a great incentive to own an Xbox, however, the reverse of that is a problem for Microsoft because day one games is costing Microsoft millions that they are not making back in either people buying Xboxes or paying for Game Pass subscriptions. It is quite literally hurting Xbox, yet the solution, which involves removing day one games, will also hurt Xbox. The day one games is the differentiator that attracts and retains people in the Xbox ecosystem precisely because the deal is too good to be true, yet any steps Microsoft take to stem their financial woes, could turn away the very people they need to keep Xbox afloat.
It really is a quandary for Xbox and I am glad that I am not making the decision myself as to what they do about it. I do think that decision is coming though, and I don't think it will be a popular decision when it arrives, albeit it will be a necessary one...
Re: Xbox CCO Says Not To 'Overly Fixate' On All Single-Player Games Being Exclusives
We are going to have to disagree here, @Coletrain, there is a massive difference between adding some occasional skins, and adding maps, modes, skins, having seasons and having your progress reset as happens in Gears of War.
So what you are saying, is Gears of War is a Live Service game with a campaign, but the campaign means it is not a Live Service game, which makes no sense to me. If they released E-Day without the campaign, it would be a Live Service game, but because it has a campaign, it isn't.
Nope! Makes no sense to me. People will play the campaign for 20 hours (which is apparently how long it is) and then play the Live Service component for hundreds, maybe thousands, of hours...
Re: Xbox CCO Says Not To 'Overly Fixate' On All Single-Player Games Being Exclusives
I have over 2000 hours in Gears 5, @Schonks, so I fully understand what you mean when some will play it for a very long time (I still play it 3 days a week and have done since it first released). However, I am in the minority, the vast majority will play the campaign and move on, or play the campaign and dabble in the multiplayer and move on after just a month or so. I'll still be playing E-Day when GTA 6 drops, for example, but many of us won't.
The point is, few will play the game consistently for a month or more. Some will drop in and drop out before dropping back in for a while, but most will play it briefly and move on to their next game of choice...
Re: Reporter Claims Game Pass Is 'Absolutely Detested' By Some Xbox Studio Leaders
I understand what you are saying, @fatpunkslim, but as Avowed could not stand on its own two legs, should it still have been made?
Look at it this way, if Obsidian Entertainment were independent, firstly, would they have made the game, and secondly, if they had, would they not have risked either going bust, or being substantially downsized?
My point being that every game that gets made should be at least capable of breaking even, but really should be aiming to turn a profit. Basically, it should not be the case that a studio relies on the success of other games, made by other studios, to keep them afloat. It would not happen if the studio were independent, and should not happen if they are owned by the likes of Xbox. And this is precisely why we have seen the 4 studios recently spun off; if they cannot turn a profit on their own, they are of no use to Xbox (particularly not in their current state).
I get that you personally enjoyed Avowed, and I have not played it so I do not have a horse in this race, but I really do not think that Xbox can afford to have 'passion projects' that are unlikely to turn a profit right now. They need big wow games that are going to make people want to game on an Xbox...
Re: Xbox CCO Says Not To 'Overly Fixate' On All Single-Player Games Being Exclusives
Was Gears 5 a Live Service game, @Coletrain...?
Re: Xbox CCO Says Not To 'Overly Fixate' On All Single-Player Games Being Exclusives
It is a Live Service game, @Questionable_Duck, just as Gears 5 was:
Question (into Bing): Is Gears 5 a Live Service game?
Answer: Yes, Gears 5 is a live service game. It continues to have active servers and multiplayer options, allowing players to engage in various game modes.
Question (into Google): Is Gears 5 a Live Service game?
Gears 5 like many of Microsoft's multiplayer offerings (and multiplayer games in general in 2019) is a live service game, complete with incentives to continue playing, atop a promise of free content drops on a regular cadence.
This is the definition of a Live Service game taken from Yahoo:
Live service game
Revenue model in which new content is continuously provided in a video game, thus increasing replay value and long-term motivation.
I'm not making it up, these are the answers that comes back.
E-Day will follow the exact same Live Service model as Gears 5, and just like Gears 5, you can possibly play the campaign (and only the campaign) offline but not in co-op. All the other modes will require you to be online...
Re: Xbox CCO Says Not To 'Overly Fixate' On All Single-Player Games Being Exclusives
You didn't tag me into your comment, @Schonks, but I never suggested that Game Pass was free. However, if you play E-Day for an entire month on Game Pass, you will have paid £22.99 to play the game. If you buy it, and play it for a month, it'll cost you £70.
We know that the majority will play it via Game Pass, so unless people play it for more than 3 months, Microsoft will receive less money for the game than they would had people bought the game.
Truth is, most people will play the campaign, and maybe a bit of the multiplayer, and then move on to something else. In other words, whilst most people will play it via Game Pass (as is their right), most won't play it for even a month.
Playing it via Game Pass leaves an awful lot of money on the table for Xbox. An awful lot...
Re: Xbox CCO Says Not To 'Overly Fixate' On All Single-Player Games Being Exclusives
Fable will do well, as will Forza 6, @Mr-Cage, and so could E-Day.
However, if E-Day is not going to make a difference, what is the point in keeping it as a console exclusive?
What is the point of an exclusive if not to attract people into a particular ecosystem?
This is the reason why E-Day has been kept as an exclusive. Sharma and co. believe the game will draw new people into the Xbox ecosystem.
What I will say though is if E-Day won't attract new blood on to Xbox, and neither Fable nor Forza Horizon are being used as such, what games will? What games does Xbox have coming out in the next couple of years that will grow Xbox? Once Fable comes out, what big AAA game is there...?
Re: Xbox CCO Says Not To 'Overly Fixate' On All Single-Player Games Being Exclusives
The campaign is not evolving, @Mr-Cage, or at least I highly doubt it is. The campaign is one small part of the game, it also has PvP and PvE, and it that which is evolving. There will be more maps, maybe more modes, more skins, more bloodsprays and banners (assuming they do that again). There will be ways to buy additional currency, and there will be seasons.
Forza has a campaign, and is considered a Live Service game. Destiny has a campaign, and is considered a Live Service game. Diablo has a campaign, and is considered a Live Service game. E-Day is no different.
If you do a search on Halo Infinite, it says it was a Live Service game, but is not now because they have stopped adding content to it.
I am curious what you think constitutes a Live Service game though...?
Re: Xbox CCO Says Not To 'Overly Fixate' On All Single-Player Games Being Exclusives
What I think they should have done with E-Day, @TrollOfWar, if they were not going to release the entire game on PlayStation is to release the Live Service element on PlayStation, but not the campaign. Reduce the price to reflect that it does not include the campaign, so perhaps £40 or £50 on PlayStation, and the full £70 on Xbox.
I understand the notion of trying to appease the more rabid parts of the Xbox community by making it exclusive (to consoles), but all that will happen is that they will harm Xbox, harm the studio, and potentially harm the franchise. The game could have been one of those games that brought in hundreds of millions if sold on PlayStation as well. It could have been one of those really big Live Service games that all these companies are pursuing, and so it makes no sense whatsoever to have made it a console exclusive.
We all know the vast majority of people will play the game via Game Pass on Xbox (and I assume many will on PC too), but we also know that means it will not sell particularly well on Xbox, and why should people buy it when it is available on Game Pass? That is, after all, why that have Game Pass. It is just as well that it is available on Steam as well because if it were not, the game could well be a financial disaster (it still could be if it did cost the rumoured $400 million), yet if it had been sold on PlayStation too, that would have been an unlikely outcome.
I do think that Sharma will be keeping a very close eye on this game, and could indeed be using it as a test case for future console exclusivity. It is, after all, one of the pillar titles that Xbox has, and if it does not result in a surge in console sales, subscription sales, nor game sales, then she might take Xbox back to the drawing board when it comes to exclusivity, because if a game such as E-Day can't make the financials favourable, then there really is no other game in the Xbox armoury that could except perhaps Fallout or Elder Scrolls 6, but making those games exclusive would be a huge risk, and in the case of Elder Scrolls 6, that is years away (by which time I think the issue of exclusivity will have been settled anyway)...
Re: Xbox CCO Says Not To 'Overly Fixate' On All Single-Player Games Being Exclusives
Gears of War is absolutely 100% a Live Service game, @Mr-Cage. Of that there is absolutely no doubt at all.
According to Co-Pilot, a Live Service game is:
A live service game is a video game designed to evolve continuously after launch, offering ongoing content, updates, and events to keep players engaged over time.
That is exactly what Gears of War has become, and I would agree that GoW 1, 2, and 3 were no Live Service games, but that is what the games have become, and if you search whether the game was a Live Service game, the answer comes back as 'Yes'...
Re: Xbox CCO Says Not To 'Overly Fixate' On All Single-Player Games Being Exclusives
I'm still very much in the dark when it comes to Sharma's very confusing strategy.
On the one hand, we have Forza Horizon 6 going to PlayStation. Why? Because it is a Live Service game (and was previously announced). Totally get that, and it is absolutely the right decision.
On the other hand, we have Gears of War: E-Day not going to PlayStation. Why? Because it was not previously announced? Okay, that bit I understand, but it is a Live Service game. Therefore it is a game that needs a big community for it to so well. So this is absolutely the wrong decision, and it makes no sense whatsoever...
Re: 'Most Technically Ambitious Gears To Date' - Xbox Partners With NVIDIA On Gears Of War: E-Day
You and I are totally aligned when it comes to our lack of interest in GTA 6, @ILuvGames. I am very much looking forward to E-Day, although I right now I am pretty apprehensive about the apparent lack of a normal Horde mode.
I will do what I always do when it comes to the Campaign; I will play it through solo on Hardcore (or whatever they choose to call it this time), and then play it through solo on Insane. Finally, I will play through it on an easier setting to catch any collectibles that I might have missed,, albeit I am pretty thorough in my exploration even on the harder difficulties.
I do wish they would have an Achievement for playing the game on Insane solo. Doing it in co-op is so much easier than doing it solo, and that should be recognised by way of a solo Achievement.
Unfortunately, I think if they do not have a traditional 5 player Horde mode, then once I have been through the Campaign a couple of times, that will be done with the game until my annual pilgrimage through each of the Campaigns, which when you consider I have put well over 2000 hours into Gears 5, is a real shame.
I guess my fingers will have to remain firmly crossed until October...