Pretty much what I thought was the case is the case. I saw on the Halo subreddit that it's pretty much confirmed that higher ups at Microsoft and their investors forced the terrible progression system on 343 and won't change their mind until presented with data from 343 showing its detrimental effect.
Seems clear that Phil Spencer isn't the type to fight against investors. Not caving in to investors' demands was one of the many very special things about Satoru Iwata era Nintendo.
@SplooshDmg The biggest hypocrite is right on this page trying to convince you that (s)he is open-minded and respectful and blaming the others while being the first one to insult people because of their opinion about the megacorporation of their choice, if you check that NL thread you'll see what I mean.
@NEStalgia Fortnite is fine. Yes, it has annoying players but, just like any other online game, there's a representation of the real world. It's more fun with friends, I guess, like Sea of Thieves. Like any multiplayer game. Halo Infinite Multiplayer is following the same model in terms of accessibility. We'll see how it goes. I confess that I'm a bit surprised about that backlash, I don't know if it's a general thing or just a few Twitter accounts. Because of Grumblevolcano, I read this and I still don't know what is so awful about Halo Infinite Multiplayer, just want to know exactly what it is so I can understand. Perhaps I'm missing something.
"The Halo Infinite battle pass contains such nitty-gritty details as shoulder pads and holsters, but also more sweeping cosmetic touches"
"there's a free version that will grant you over 60 rewards in the game's 100-tier battle pass"
"This option offers a unique feature as compared to other premium battle passes. Because Halo Infinite battle passes don't expire..."
"You could even split them up across several battle passes, as each one is spent individually as you see fit"
About the other topic, here is much more peaceful, indeed. It's not peace what's needed but respect. When another forum member doesn't respect you because of your opinion it's when you realise the kind of person they are. Most people here respect each other, sometimes a PS or NL frequent flyer comes to be passively aggressive but it's not as common as on NL or PS. They must have an inferiority complex that makes them disrespectful and aggressive towards others' opinion. I never attack or insult people but I retort back respectfully because even if I know that they don't deserve a reply and just a f-o reply, that's what they are trying to achieve, they are trying to get that kind of reaction as a way to "remove" you. I think that you retort back as well, as you should, but you are kinder and more polite than me. One of your short replies, before you openly admitted that you were fed-up, was very respectful but I could clearly see your frustration, your argument was brief and shy. On the bright side, many people here, myself included, love you.
@Grumblevolcano Your replies to me were utterly generic, I asked you to be more specific because I really want to understand you so, if you don't mind, I'm still interested in reading your reply to my last comment.
@BlueOcean The vast majority of rewards in the Halo Infinite battle pass for those who don't purchase the premium battle pass are challenge swaps which swap weekly challenges with new ones, there's very little actual customization content. Also credits can only be bought with real money (that's the currency used to buy store content and the premium battle pass).
As for horrible monetization I'd say there's 2 tiers:
1. Sea of Thieves (post-launch), Gears 5 and Halo Infinite
2. Halo 5, Gears of War 4 and Halo Wars 2 (loot boxes are bad though in these 3 games cases I'd say the loot box approach was a fairer approach than the monetization of the 3 above games)
Traditional DLC model is the model that was used prior to the existence of microtransactions where you buy DLC and get content. For FPS there was usually map packs and sometimes multiple map packs were put together into a season pass, some games had expansions, etc.
So traditional DLC model is the model Nintendo still uses outside of mobile games and the odd other game like Super Kirby Clash. For Microsoft, the only franchise that seems to use the traditional DLC model nowadays is Forza (buy the premium add-ons bundle for FH5 and you get a load of stuff including more cars, expansions, etc.). Outside of Forza, the last XGS game to use the traditional DLC model was Halo Wars 2 which did a hybrid model where there were traditional paid DLC but also loot boxes. Smash's DLC model I'd say is more traditional.
I've mentioned plenty of times on Nintendo Life how much I detest the monetization model for Nintendo's mobile games (and mobile games in general) and worry about it seeping more into their console games. We'll see whether my concerns are valid when Splatoon 3 launches next year.
I think FTP can work fairly and did in the case of Killer Instinct (XB1) but it's a rarity.
Thank you for your reply. As a veteran sailor, I strongly disagree about Sea of Thieves because all the story content and most of the customisation options still are free. I also don't see what's so horrible about Halo Infinite and Gears 5 multiplayer modes. They're thousands of light years away from the mobile games model. Traditional DLC is not necessarily better. Super Smash Bros. Ultimate is the most expensive fighting game in history if you want to get all the fighters. Nintendo (as developer) don't focus on free-to-play games because they don't support anything for long (Dr. Mario World) but they tried the most horrible monetisation I've seen on a console with Nintendo Badge Arcade that was aimed at a young audience on 3DS/2DS.
@BlueOcean Fighting games in general can be pretty expensive if you're buying all the DLC. Smash seems even more so given that it never gets a discount. Most others can be picked up for with pretty substantial discounts too - I picked up the Ultimate Edition of MK11 recently for a little over the price of a single Smash Fighter Pass.
Still waiting on a decent digital discount on Samurai Shodown though...
@Ralizah That's kind of my point though about the fanbases changing and brands changing, if you're a fan of x and part of a community of x and then the community changes considerably, it's not really you being suddenly unaligned with that brand's community that changes, it's that the community itself was replaced by a different one that suddenly, basically, fights against what the community previously wanted. Which I get to a point, but in the Nintendo community case, the worst of it is the same actual people following a new herd mentality in a new direction because they just changes whatever way the wind blows.
I think it's less about "brand loyalty" and more about some sort of misguided sense of belonging.
Though I'm not unaligned with the people that want third party. Virtually all the best games on it are 3rd party exclusives. The trouble for multiplat players remains constant that so much of the content on the platform you either already played 10 years ago, or could play cheaper, and superior on any other platform. You either pay super premium to play a game in a rickety portable version or pay less to play it at smooth, good looking performance. That's not on Nintendo, though, it's just an ugly side effect of the system. I'm not holding that against them, it's just a frustrating part of being a Switch owner, and does cause a community rift between the "OMG What's a video game this so cool that new Diablo 2 game is so neet!" crowd and the "uh...I remember that when it was new.....before you were born....for $10 less..." crowd. But those aren't the problem people, just a rift. WiiU had zero third party interest, but Nintendo home consoles have been the dregs since 1996. Proper comparisons should be made to Nintendo's other handhelds more than consoles (I said it!) where DS, 3DS showed strong 3rd party support. It's just that it was Japanese support rather than watered down ports of 10 year old Western games for higher than their original launch price.
For PS, yeah, that's my point there too, it was bad there years ago, got better a year ago....was getting worse again, but it's really been a lot calmer there. Like, a lot, recently. Maybe it is Uncle Ryan's daily blunders that are keeping the vipers at bay. If it is I might like Ryan after all...
I haven't noticed as much tone shift in the NL writers, though it's probably because they're still a lot more prone to flog pure clickbait tabloid fare that predictably turns into chaos. Kate was great at first, and now she's been flogging some nasty tabloid pieces, too. Then there was Thomas' horrible "why I'm ok with being told to bend over because I'm gaming the system so it's cool" article with the whole subscription add-on thing. I think I started tuning out of the articles more after that one. Mostly a lot of the content is about indie games I've never heard of and don't care about so I skip the articles, and when I find one that isn't it's either clickbait trolling with predictably chaotic comments, or it's another flipping ACNH article... )
TBH I think the big "problems" with the two "sides" of Nintendo fandom right now mainly come down to pricing (it was easy to overlook the light weight nature of their output when it was also lower cost. If they want to price with the big boys, they have to accept the criticism of comparison as well. Trouble is the fan culture is one of adoring and buying everything regardless. VERY much like the Apple fandom which I can not stand in the slightest, where paying $1400 for a $900 laptop because it has the Apple flourish is acceptable and praised. That's new for Switch. WiiU too, but nobody bought WiiU so we can ignore it like they do, and WiiU wasn't as distant from the competition as Switch now is. ). The other is that their game design edges significantly and overtly more toward mobile-style now, driven more by grind and gatcha mechanics, even if they're not monetized, the gameplay loops more and more reflect mobile play. Their most popular title in ACNH is literally a mobile gatcha game with daily cooldowns except without monetization. They're not doing it for profits, they're doing it because that seems to be the style of gameplay their new (mostly Japanese I assume) mobile-first market wants. In that regard I think Switch is competing with iOS more than it's competing with MS/Sony/PC. Ironically I do think that's intentional, isn't a biproduct of HD, and is a biproduct of their core market being Japan which has gone all-in on mobile and shifted hard away from console games. Making games like "mobile." And I think the community shift reflects that.
As for the rehashed points from that thread, I think you (and others) are missing the point of that part of the discussion because of the textwalling that really occurred because of the rampant arguments that drew the conversation in 100 directions. Hard to blame, the message got muddled. I never said those games don't count as games, etc. The discussion there was purely about discussing the volume and quality of that particular studio's (Nintendo internal) output and the slide in quality. The same if discussing Sony's output, or EA's output or Rockstar's output (do they have output?), etc. You and others were reading that as a discussion about the total games on the platform, which it wasn't, it was a discussion about what is that studio actually DOING (bare minimum for max premium.) I didn't mind your misreading it because you aren't a belligerent spear-waving lunatic about it like others But as you said, you do agree with the primary point that the studio's output has slid from the prior generation (half generation?), so we're not starting with a fundamental disagreement at all with that whole topic. A key dividing line in that sand seems to be if you think My First Minecraft ACNH is the most bestest game ever made and sunk 3000 hours into it in the first 6 months alone, or if you played and wondered where the rest of the game was. I know you're more in that latter camp as well, which explains why you're also more on the side of their output having slid.
The one thing you and I will forever disagree on, across all platforms, is the idea that a small, low-ish budget, short, 2D game should be priced the same as huge AAA games. But that didn't come from that thread, we'd talked about that before then. I'm just surprised we disagree on that considering you don't support the AAA's pushing their huge budgets onto consumers with big price increases, but are fine with cheap 2D games pushing....basically the same premium onto consumers. "industry standard" price came from those AAAs foisting their bloated budgets nobody asked for onto everyone. Charging that same "industry standard" price for games that cost 1/6 as much to make with 1/10 the content seems even worse to me. So we have permanent disagreement there, I just can't figure out why
LOL, I did kind of see what Sony was becoming back then..... If I thought Sony would still have been Japanese awesomeness I'd still have been a pony then too. I mean it got 100x worse than I ever imagined after Kaz left, but even during early to mid-PS4 it was clear this wasn't Kutaragi's Playstation anymore. Heck when we were talking back then I still maintained that Xbox Done would be MS's last console and maybe they'd sell the division to EA!
@Grumblevolcano If they monetize Splatoon 3 in the way they do mobile, I'm going to get myself banned on NL, almost certainly.
Phil isn't really in a position to talk with investors at all. That's one difference there that gets them into trouble. For Nintendo, the games company is the company so the CEO in charge of it is the shareholder guy (though, I haven't seen Furukawa bend against shareholders even once.....he's about as independent as Andrew Wilson.) For Sony, PS/SIE operates as a subsidiary company, so Ryan is directly responsible to shareholders as much as he is to (Ken) Yoshida. For Xbox, it operates simply as a department, and as a senior VP heading a department, he's totally disconnected from business affairs where Nadella and the corporate VPs handle the finance directly, so I'm not sure Phil really has the opportunity to push or not push on shareholders for that. The orders probably come down from business affairs regarding that level of financial decision making. Like the "Charge double for Gold!" insanity.
@SplooshDmg Splatoon and ACNH is basically Nintendo's version of a GAAS game. Splatoon is done mostly ok, some complaints and foibles about how they drag out the updates though. We'll see what happens with 3. ACNH is like the worst of the worst of GAAS. The game was basically half finished from May '20 to Oct '21, with ridiculous drip feed of insignificant content in between. Imagine attaching mtx to that! Along with all the grind of Genshin. I really don't want to see what Nintendo trying to actually monetize a live service would look like. I think I'd have to sign up for Apple Arcade to wash the odor of that away...
@SplooshDmg I don't really play any true GAAS games to compare it to, and what I have is more MMO than GAAS (TESO, FFXIV) or a single player game that happens to add GAAS features that I ignore (all AC since Origins), but I still get the impression that GAAS games usually give more updates that are more meaningful than that. FO76, SoT, Outriders, even Avengers, I haven't spent any time on any of them, but I still see how they release new content frequently, etc. ACNH's problem other than being flat out boring, and designed as a mobile game, in terms of its GAAS is they just removed content that's normally in the packaged game and decided to instead give it to you slowly over a year and a half. Same with Splatoon. You get one weekly weapon for like 2.5 months rather than just unlocking the same weapons that were in the first game. I "get" it more for Splatoon because it's grooming the player base and play styles, but overall it always feels like they're just removing content, releasing a bare bones early access beta, and adding the intended content slowly over time back into it just to keep you active and to keep socials buzzing with references to it. True GAAS games seem to actually add NEW content developed over time to make a huge game, not just take the original developed content for the game and restrict you from using it until the schedule says you're allowed. Imagine if Halo Infinite multiplayer didn't let you use the Needler until January, and didn't add the Warthog and Pelican until next August simply because they decided that's the schedule it should have. ACNH as a real GAAS maybe could have actually been cool. But their idea for implementing it just doesn't work that way. They don't add content, they withhold it so they can later pretend they're adding content and leverage social marketing.
I get that GAAS is really popular mostly because you can buy one game and just keep playing that one game, and they throw you little bones to feel like you're not just replaying a stale old game. That's also why enthusiasts tend to hate it. When you play a lot of games you have no intention of just playing one giant sandbox endlessly as they throw you bones here and there. You want to get your fill and move on. And it's not totally exclusive of enthusiasts, it's in line with MMO fans which are the hardest of hardcore, really, but also a pocket within a bubble. I played my MK8 for like 2 weeks and moved on. It's the same circuits over and over....how can anyone play it anymore than that, I will never know. GT and FM would be the same for me though, so I'm not calling out MK.
Totally with you on ESO though. Been meaning to jump back in with the XSX upgrades. You know, if I had an XSX..... It's hard to get back into an MMO like that, but that's just a great game all the way around, and for an MMO, quite a bargain unless you're a crafing maven, then it's back to subscription. People rave about FFXIV. I tried so hard to love it last year and just can not get into it. ESO, no problem. XIV......just the starting area bored me to tears and I could NOT get into liking it at all. A lot of it was the map and terrible console UI though. maybe on PC I'd have liked it.
The problem with any legislation our incompetent government can come up with is that usually it has nothing to do with solving actual problems and usually has something to do with fulfilling a desire for some industry group to fleece the public more. "Banning scalper bots" probably means something like "government monitoring of internet users" And/Or is a put-up job by Walmart and the like so that it guarantees they have to force people into their stores to market to them better. I'd love it if the bots went away, but I have some serious doubts about how exactly they'd enforce that, who'd get caught in the crossfire, and how it will make our lives suck more. We've had a "war on drugs" since the 60's. Well done, guv, well done!
@SplooshDmg It really depends. If I ran out of content on FH5 right now I'd be bummed. Of course it is a semi-GaaS so it's a bad example. And it has so much built in content I don't know how you could run out. But after I play 120+ hours of Yakuza 0 do I really want them to keep adding to it so I can keep jumping in and do more menial padded things? Not really. But will I buy a next full-on story with more events etc? Absolutely. Just so I can trigger Ralizah I'll say "If they added GaaS content to Metroid Dread so it doesn't end at like 12 hours with half of that time being wasted just throwing yourself into an Emmi over and over with the last 1/3 of the game being just a boss battle rush....for free? Yeah, I'd be excited." If they'd do it for payments they can go right off and do something with themselves.
But, me, I have a backlog of several hundred games. I don't want to drop back into AC Origins every few months and see these new trinkets they added here and there. You have GoT legends....I guess it kind of adds content, but it's not really main content, I can't get too excited for it, but that's pseudo GaaS kind of additions I guess. But the concept mostly only works for sandboxes because they don't really need to add too much to it.
I can't place what's different about the Asian MMOs. I mean bland battle that equates to selecting menu options is really the same, but I just can't quite enjoy the questing or battles in XIV. Then again I'm not that into Western MMOs either. TESO is just a special game.
We're talking about the same congress that keeps passing laws to make illegal, things that were already illegal under unenforced old laws, and then they pat themselves on the back for victory. I assume industry group paid senator to push a legislation. Legislation is written by said industry group and he hasn't even read it. Said legislation probably contains 500 subclauses about things not at all related to scalper bots that help them steal from the treasury and remove consumer rights, probably something related to import tariff exemptions, and eliminating class action lawsuits, said senator is reminded of upcoming reelection and campaign contributions and the audio recordings that vacation they furnished for himself and his secretary's granddaughter, and said "bot" legislation gets passed. Good luck getting a Series Y mid-gen bump. Those bots will grab them in hundredths of a second.
But don't worry, the bill also included a clause to work with Tencent on "Honest Online Purchasing Engine" (HOPE) which will assign each users a score evaluating their reliability status through proprietary Fairness Evaluation Activity Recognition (FEAR) technology. For a better society. But it's cool, I got my Tide from Walmart......for....laundering things......
@SplooshDmg Wow, that's a lot of racing in a short time to clear out all those races. I'm still staring at a mostly full board! I haven't even touched the seasonal stuff.
The question is how they monetize all that. If they're still selling the content for the next game, MMO style, why do GaaS when they could just do a new game to sell with new physical discs to sell (which is pretty important for a lot of the market) rather than new downloads? If it's cheaper, sure, but if it's a $60-70 annual expansion for Yakuza (basically what they sell already) but as a download that bolts into the current game, it just gets harder to sell. That's not really a consumer benefit, and starts dipping into getting nickel and dimed for minimal content. Or if done right, it's basically exactly what we already have minus a new physical game sales channel, which just hurts them.
I really hear two different tales of FFXIV. My experience matches yours (except I tried to solo it), but I hear so many talk so highly of it, I keep assuming I'm missing something.
LOL, yeah, to me it's common knowledge, but too many people seem to not understand that's how government works...
@SplooshDmg Yeah, I think we talked about it before, but I see AC more as a traditional game that includes some GaaS features that can be ignored entirely. I think Fenyx had some of those things in there. I did maybe one of them because I was just seeking extra content. It was mostly stupid, one was a TV show tie-in. Really simple stuff though. I mostly see the popups of timed events and just cringe and ignore them.
THat's different from Avengers and the like that the "service" features are a core part of the game. FH5 is....I don't even know where it sits, the service is more in your face and part of the main game features than AC, but still technically entirely skppable.
So, the TL;DR; is you love Spidermiles for $50....
@NEStalgia SKTTR wrote several posts attacking me, one of them was very offensive. I reported it but all E. did was erased it... and closed the thread. I think it's a bad idea to erase the insults and don't say anything to the person that was being offensive. If you read the last page now you don't know what happened, it's like he didn't do anything and, of course, the mod didn't reproach him anything.. He should have been banned immediately. It was by far the nastiest comment on the whole thread.
@BlueOcean No way to know if the mods said anything to them via direct email. I do know they can/do do that, so the may have sent a comment or warning to him. If they took action to delete comments they may have. Since they acted on your report about it, it obviously must have violated the rules to warrant it. Either way they acted on your complaint so that's good!
@SplooshDmg Both are too expensive for sure. At least r&c is a roller coaster of action from start to stop. MM is great when it flows but has a lot of filler. It could have been worth the money if they just made more of what's good. The open world is just barren even compared to the main game which had a really bland open world itself.
Feel free to come here and play my GaaS lawn mowing simulator arcade edition any time youd like between May and October!
Woohoo it looks like I'm finally getting my X back!
Doesn't negate the need for a spare, I'm still camping scalpers and I guess the one and only non scalper store that actually will ship them, but at least I'll have my real console back!
@NEStalgia To being with, why did you need a spare Series X? You console was being repaired for free and in a few years you'll get the next console anyway.
@SplooshDmg I wonder how the target one worked? They changed their page some time ago to show that only All Access is available online (which also isn't available), and totally disabled the normal console button with a little "why is this unavailable" link that tells you online is All Access only. Maybe it was just an in-store drop? Weird... it's all so weird
@BlueOcean I actually always keep a spare console on hand until this gen because they're unavailable and so expensive. I have a Spare 1X, spare WiiU, 3DS, Switch, PS4, but not PS4 Pro - tried to get one and that was the infamous KH3 LE edition GameStop oversold and cancelled most of the orders on. That's the funny thing is before this happened, just a week or so, Grumble, Ralizah and I were talking about that in the PS thread on NL which is how I first heard XSX was harder to get than PS5 now. I said that I was going to actually try to use the PS5 more than the XSX for a while as a result to not use it so much. Everyone pointed out that consoles don't break often so it's not really necessary, and then days later my XSX breaks......
With 2 consoles running in the house, one already broke, and if the other breaks it'll not have a warranty now, so who knows how that goes. The XSX matters a little more for having a spare since most of the library is on XB.
You're half right about the next console. I'm hoping there's no "mid gen refresh" this time considering it will be years before initial demand is even met and Phil said they don't want to end up doing a mid-gen again, but yet if PS does a mid gen I can't imagine XB not doing it too. Plus those will be impossible to get, too if they do exist...
@NEStalgia Ha ha you already have two Series X and wanted another one. These are the consoles I still have.
Portable:
GBA SP
New Nintendo 3DS
Switch Lite
Home:
SNES (original model)
Nintendo 64 (modded French RGB model)
GameCube (original model)
Wii (original model)
Wii U (32GB model)
PS4 (launch model)
Xbox Series X
Just to also show how much of a Nintendo fan I am, proving your recent points about Nintendo fans!
I'm not sure that there will be mid--gen refresh because this generation is slow in terms of availability (slower than any other before). With "next console" I don't really know when.
@BlueOcean Only one's mine + the S that I got as the backup since I couldn't get an X but....it's kinda disappointing, cute as it is (Though I do have 2 spare X1X's...bought one retail and one was refurb too cheap to pass up I had planned to trade them up to XSX's during the Scarlett days, but......obviously that shall never happen. )
That makes me think of, I wonder how this scarcity is impacting GameStop and the like. A lot of their business involves getting people to trade up to new consoles and turn in old ones so they can refurb them and sell them cheaper. With the scarcity, the very concept of trading to upgrade a console no longer exists, you can't trade yours if inventory is random occasional drops that you have milliseconds to buy means you can't do the whole upgrade pricing thing. That must have gutted their used console business.
LOL, that's a lot of Nintendo gear for a Nintendo hater Kinda sounds like me with PS. Push is mellow now. But at its height, I'm sure half of them thought I was a PS-hater. Some still do I'm sure. But the funny thing is I'd put money on it that I have a lot more Playstation hardware I'm sitting on than even the most hardcore "true fan" PS fans. Other than the Japan exclusive stuff I have most of Astrobot's museum,and multiple of some of it.
I never get rid of consoles, and unfortunately with the tradeup not happening I have a few too many this gen.
I still have:
Atari 2600 (demo unit mounted on arcade board. Unfortunately it has been caught in floods, the particle board it was mounted on has mostly rotted away, and all the metal surfaces are rusty and dangerous and the wood grain paneling has mostly faded silver-gray. It belongs in the trash, but I just.....can't do it.... )
OG NES (with the toaster slot)
OG SNES (Yes, it's purple button NA version, and yes it has yellowed)
OG Sega Genesis (Returned a 32x after like a week back in the day...)
OG DMG-1000 Game Boy (and a mountain of AA batteries!)
Sega Game gear (unfortunately the screen has failed.)
Virtual Boy (They DO exist!)
(Went PC for a while so there's a console gap. Own PS1 games but not the console. Need an AGP video card? )
PS2 Slim
PS3 Phat, 2x PS3 Slim (used them as BD players and the disc drives kept burning out so the slims are technically broken.)
PSP 2000
2x OG OLED PS Vita (one spare! Plus the bundle was a black friday deal and I needed the memory card which cost almost as much on its own, my original card failed.)
PSVR1
Jasper X360, X360 Elite (got the latter for a "portable" build with one of those game case things, it was fun.)
Wii
2x WiiU (bought one for another room/spare)
2x PS4 (bought one for another room), PS4 Pro (on its last leg and cut out periodically.)
X1X (+one spare plus one cheap refurb I couldn't resist.)
2x 3DS, 2x 3DSXL (one broke completely), N3DS (Still my reigning favorite platform of all time. Never thought SNES would be surpassed. XSX may succeed it, I thought Switch would, and it still could, but it probably won't.)
Switch, Switch OLED
Never had N64, GCN, Saturn, Dreamcast. They all happened during the PC years, and I never really liked N64 anyway other than Mario64. Caught up on GCN exclusives on Wii. Saturn and Dreamcast remain sadly elusive.
And, yeah, Sploosh and I were talking about the mid-gen the other day. I really don't know how that's going to go. On one hand we've proven that basically any console will sell out and a rush of people to buy them will be ever-present. Maybe they can go iPhone and have sellout lines for miles every single year with a revision. Why not sell a mid-gen? OTOH, it's just an ugly scenario if it takes 3 years to even fulfill launch demand for these consoles and then 8 months later they announce that all those consoles are now obsolete and you should buy the new one, without ever having a time where consoles are just regularly available retail items with bundles and tradeins, or even All Access working correctly. And in PS5's case of "generations", it doesn't look like their PS5 gen will really start until at least 2023, with most of their big output so far being crossgen and just performing better on the PS4 Pro Plus. Even MS "next gen" isn't truly starting until Starfield in 2022, and I'm sure that means November or later next year. I'm sure the analysts have numbers for conosole sales. The same analysts that told us consoles were dead, 9 years ago...before PS4 became a historic top seller and PS5, Switch and X have people selling their grandmothers to get one I wonder if these same analysts control food futures?
Plus in 3 years we'll probably be deep into the Second Great Depression anyway, so a Series X might be worth $40 + a bag of potatoes by then.
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Topic: Uhh guys, my series x just died
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