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Topic: General Xbox Series S Thread

Posts 101 to 120 of 139

Senua

@graysoncharles “Flops are flops, no matter the architecture” Nope they are not. Flops don’t paint the complete picture in comparisons across different architecture types, in which something which takes X operation cycles might take way lesser cycles to do so in another more efficient architecture. It’s the reason why the Series X backcompat titles running on older GCN emulation is utilising the pure bruteforce of new generation while consuming less power wattages compared to One X but giving more performance results but titles like Gears 5 which seems to be have implemented some RDNA2 features is actually now drawing more power since it utilises the additional features and headroom for optimisations that’s left out by the previous “GCN emulation” titles on backcompat mode. This is the reason behind why numbers/second metric of one architecture cannot be compared with another as its misleading and the effective performance potential calculations are different for different architectures. Maybe @BAMozzy can throw some more light on this subject.

Also it’s not really absurd to expect next-gen games (most of them are far away) to absolutely optimise for entirely new architecture/platforms and lot of new performance potential that comes with it. Will expect this from first party studios as well as third party since lot of them (like EA) are already trying to revamp their engines for next generation.

Edited on by Senua

Senua

MikeHiscoe

Was able to get a pre-order for a Series S today, which I feel good about. I'm comfortable making the move to all digital but I was wondering of Microsoft has ever considered a disc to digital program like we've seen in the movie industry. I don't have a large collection of Xbox One discs but I would love to be able to just sell or store away my Xbox One for good.

I suppose eventually anything I have on disc may be available on sale, on Game Pass or as a Games with Gold freebie, but I'd be willing to pay few bucks from the get-go just to have my full Xbox One library on my Series S.

What are the rest of you planning on doing with your old games on disc?

MikeHiscoe

BAMozzy

@graysoncharles @Senua The Flops calculation is a theoretical maximum amount of floating point operations a GPU can do per second. Its based on the number of available shaders and how many cycles per second.

However, no GPU is 100% efficient and there is latency between parts. If its having to wait for instruction from CPU, that's some dropped 'flops' there, waiting for data from RAM, that's more flops dropped, waiting on another area to calculate something, more dropped Flops...

Newer architecture look at reducing the latency between everything so the GPU isn't waiting as long and look at improving the efficiency so that more of the GPU is working more of the time.

No GPU can get more out than is technically possible. The Series X cannot get more than 12.1Trillion Floating Point Operations, just like the Xbox One X can't get more than 6trillion but because of the efficiency and latency of the Xbox One X architecture, it may only be able to say do up to 3trillion because of latency and efficiency issues. Because the Series X has 'improved' architecture, its able to do up to 9trillion - 50% improvement over last gen because with the efficiency and latency, a 12.1TF GCN would be able to do about 6trillion Floating Point operations.

We tend to look at it from the wrong perspective - that the newer architecture is more powerful - that too match a newer GPU, you would need a more powerful older GPU (for example a 4TF new is like a 6TF old). Really, its more down to the fact that newer architecture is being used more of the time. Its actually getting closer to that theoretic maximum. GPU's don't use every single shader on every single cycle so its 'impossible' to hit that theoretical maximum - but it is possible to improve the efficiency (have more shaders working more of the time) and reduce the latency (the delay between sending and receiving instructions, data etc) to get closer and closer to that theoretical maximum.

Technically Flops are Flops regardless of the architecture - its a theoretical calculation. However, new architecture gets closer and closer to that theoretical maximum. Its all down to reducing the latency and improving the efficiency so that the GPU is performing more Floating Point operations per cycle than previous architecture...

Edited on by BAMozzy

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

Xbox Gamertag: bamozzy

Senua

@graysoncharles Maybe (in non gaming applications like data science, video production, CAD). Maybe not. 3070 has hardware support for RTX I/O decompression and DirectStorage API support for which it doesn’t really need to load all textures at once.

Edited on by Senua

Senua

BAMozzy

There are tricks that the Series S can use if the devs implement them - Sampler Feedback is a good example where the RAM (or lack of) can be offset and there is a big difference in CPU. Not just in terms of speed, efficiency etc but also in the fact that the CPU isn't needed to decompress textures either.

As for the 6TF of XB1X vs 4TF of Series S - if the efficiency and latency improvements are such, the 4TF can match the 6TF. If, for example, the old architecture is only able to operate at up to 50% that theoretical maximum - ie capable of doing 3trillion floating point operations and the new is 75% efficient so also does up to 3trillion floating point operations, then its a match. As I said, no GPU actually manages to get 100% efficiency - meaning that it matches up to that theoretical maximum. There are times when the shader is not working during 'every' cycle as its waiting on data or instruction from other areas every 'cycle' and at 1800hz, there is 30cycles per 60fps frame. A fraction of a second delay from getting the instruction from CPU can miss a couple of cycles where its doing nothing.

So whilst the calculation is the same, the theoretical maximums are somewhat an indication, they are only worth comparing the same architecture and genus. Its no point even comparing the same 'generation' of GPU's from different manufacturers because they will have different efficiency and latency which is why nVidia can outperform an AMD GPU with the 'same' theoretical maximum. NO GPU is 100% efficient so NO GPU will do that theoretical maximum. The Series X will NOT do 12.1trillion Floating Point Operations per second, the Series S will NOT do 4trillion, the XB1X will NOT do 6trillion... How many they can do is not known but how well they run games is often a way to show how much closer they get to 100% efficiency. A more efficient and lower latency GPU can outperform a GPU with a higher theoretical maximum because its not idle as much...

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

Xbox Gamertag: bamozzy

CedAlastor

Now that many youtubers have the Xbox series S, did anyone see what storage space is usable of the 512 gb ssd?

CedAlastor

BazzaRFC

After all the unboxings today for both X and s. I was surprised that Microsoft did not include a months free trial of game pass with the new consoles.

BazzaRFC

BazzaRFC

@graysoncharles thanks for the reply. I did not know that it would be available for such a low price.

BazzaRFC

Darylb88

Watch Dogs Legion will have Raytracing on Series S:

Darylb88

CRANIAL

Will MS Flight Simulator work on a Xbox series S ?
I love flying games and my main reason for wanting a Xbox series S/X is so I can play MS Flight Simulator 2020. My nephew said 'no' that I would need a series X or a top of the line PC with the best graphic card in order to play it. I did hear though at some point in the future . MS Flight Simulator will become available for the new S/X consoles.

CRANIAL

CRANIAL

Will I be able to use my 1TB external drive with the new series S/X ? I seen a video last week that appeared to show that the new consoles will require a special external and not the same kind i use on my Xbox one.

CRANIAL

Senua

@CRANIAL All old games can be played directly from your old HDD in Series S|X. For next-gen titles you can store it into your old HDD but you have to move it to the internal memory/Seagate expansion SSD to play.

Edited on by Senua

Senua

BazzaRFC

@Ryall I watched this video earlier and have to agree with his comments at the start. There is a surprising lack of videos relating to this console compared to the series X by reviewers on YouTube. As I await my delivery, I would like more in depth hands on videos by tech YouTubers as the majority seem to be bypassing this console.

Edited on by BazzaRFC

BazzaRFC

mousieone

@BazzaRFC MVG is pretty tech savvy though so if they others don’t do a breakdown he most likely will. He just really hasn’t before as his focus was the mod community. Also he works for Nightdive and was the one helped get the original Shantee ported to the Switch. He’s not DF level but; he’ll be pretty solid.

mousieone

BAMozzy

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

Xbox Gamertag: bamozzy

Senua

Looks like it will get a pretty good iFixit score.

Senua

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