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Topic: Finding the right TV for Xbox Series X

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MaccaMUFC

As mentioned recently in the ‘General Xbox Series X Thread’ I was debating between Samsung’s QLED and LG’s OLED with HDMI 2.1 being the biggest factor when it comes down to purchasing either TV. As I’m about to buy a new TV next month I decided to go with LG’s 55” C9 model but today I came across news that Samsung’s HDMI 4 port in it’s 2020 QLED range will be updated via firmware to HDMI 2.1.

The LG’s C9 has four HDMI 2.1 ports and being an OLED it obviously has much better blacks and picture quality over any of Samsung’s QLED range. But because it’s an OLED it comes with some severe risks such as burn-in, faded/worn pixels that it limits its lifespan compared to QLED. The 55” model I was considering costs £1,299 which is £299 over my initial £1,000 budget but I was willing to pay extra for the better blacks, picture quality and most importantly HDMI 2.1.

Now that I’ve read that one of Samsung’s HDMI ports in it’s 2020 QLED range is going to be updated to HDMI 2.1 that has changed my decision as I wanted a QLED in the first place due to the amount of hours the TV would be used. I’d say the TV would be getting used at least 10 hours a day between gaming and watching regular TV/Netflix with the wife and kids. As I’m buying the TV with gaming in mind input lag is important, Samsung TVs usually have low input lag I don’t know the actual figures but I know LG’s C9 has a really low input lag of 13ms @60Hz and 6ms @120Hz. Also I’d be using the TV both day and night, as I know OLEDs are best viewed in a dark room while QLED is better viewed in a bright room.

Anyway since I found out about the news that Samsung is updating their new TV range to HDMI 2.1, only updating one port doesn’t bother me as I’ll only be gaming on a Series X. If I do happen to buy a PS5 some day I can just keep swapping the HDMI 2.1 cable from the Series X. I won’t be needing extra ports for audio either as I’ll be using headsets with USB ports.

The Samsung 2020 QLED range that will be benefiting from the update go from the Q70T model and above. The Q70T is £1,299 at 55” (Currys have the Q75T 55” for the same price for some reason? Could just be the same TV) and it’s the one I’m considering over LG’s C9. I know the C9 will have better blacks, picture quality but I’m afraid the amount of use the TV will be getting that it won’t last even 3 years. But then I don’t know how much Samsung will be supporting HDMI 2.1. The C9 with HDMI 2.1 will do 4K @120, have eARC, ALLM and VRR but with Samsung’s updated HDMI 2.1 I don’t know what features will be supported. I just need more clarity on that before I definitely change my mind and go for the Q70T over the C9.

MaccaMUFC

BAMozzy

I did say that Samsung were updating their TV's to HDMI 2.1 although I am seriously disappointed if its just the 1 port. Maybe I will be waiting until 2021. I too am a very heavy user of the TV and I don't know that I can afford to buy a new TV every couple of years or so due to wearing out [some] sub-pixels - enough to affect the colour accuracy either. I have every intention of buying both the PS5 and Series X so 1 port is not good enough for me at all. I need at least 2 - and maybe more in the future - I don't know what may come along between now and getting my next TV. I don't want to buy a TV and find I can't connect everything to it and get the full range of features - that's unacceptable. I would rather wait until I can get everything I may want/need. I got a bit burned by buying 4k in 2014 before HDR, HDMI 2.0a/b etc and upgraded that in 2016 to the KS8000 to get those. If I have to make do for a few months until the 2021 TV's come out, then I will - I would even consider buying the Q900 8k TV's IF all ports are HDMI 2.1 with the 'full' features on all ports - although I will accept eARC on just 1 port of course.

If I had to buy now, I would have to buy a C9 and would go for a 55" - not upgrade on size because that is the 'minimum' I would buy and if its not going to last, its less money to lose. I would even consider using it for a year and then move it to the bedroom where it will not get that much usage, will be a 'dark' room viewing and barely used for gaming - but that would be IF I had to buy now. I wouldn't settle for anything less than a Q9 series (90 or 900) and if neither offer HDMI 2.1 over all 4 ports with the full gaming spectrum, then I won't bother at all with these.

Another aspect you might want to think about though is Pixel response times and OLEDs cannot currently be bettered. PC monitors rarely give you their input lag, its all about pixel response times as that makes for better scrolling of text for example. Slower response leads to blur and trails. Another aspect is Local dimming - Low Latency modes turn off local dimming completely because the process of analysing the image and adjusting each zones brightness to give the 'best' image adds lag. All of that is another BIG reason why the OLEDs are currently regarded as the best gaming TV - although as a HDR PC monitor when a lot of the screen is 'white', they are not very bright due to Auto Brightness Limiters. The TV would use too much power and/or get too hot if the whole screen was very bright. With movies, its often not so bad because of the aspect ratio - the top and bottom are black and occupy quite a sizeable portion of the screen so even if the whole movie image was bright white, that's not 100% of the screen.

As I say to everyone, you have to do what's right for you, what will be the best option for you and that option may well be different to mine. I know its a minefield and trying to weigh up pros and cons so its a case of what is most important to you and which cons are most acceptable overall. For me, I couldn't buy a TV and have to keep swapping HDMI cables for 5yrs+ so I would rather have 2-3yrs (maybe more if LG have managed to reduce the wear) and the other benefits of OLEDs than the cons of Samsungs Q series - but that's 'me' right now and you may well be different.

It would be great if 4k 'true' MicroLED TV's were available - the pros of both LED and OLEDs with 'few' cons - the biggest is likely to be price. You could have MicroLED back lights - 10's of thousands of backlight zones - even 1 MicroLED backlight per pixel (although even a 1080p microLED array - 1 microLED for 4 pixels - meaning over 2m dimming zones) would be a big improvement and there is talk of a QD OLED too - a full OLED panel with just 'blue' sub pixels and a QD layer on top - some of the Blue sub-pixels are converted to red or green and the QD layer also improves colour range and brightness. But these are not available yet. TCL (I think) have a MicroLED backlight array TV but that has several mLED's per zone so you don't 20k diming zones and I don't know if that's coming to the UK or how good it will be for gamers.

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

Xbox Gamertag: bamozzy

MaccaMUFC

@BAMozzy I agree so therefore I’m going to stick with getting the C9. I’m just not prepared to gamble with £1,299 and hope that when Samsung update their QLED 2020 range with HDMI 2.1 that it’ll be supported with the most important features, there’s just too many unknowns regarding the update like when it will release and what it will consist of. At least with the C9 I know what I’m getting and that it’s absolutely ready to make the most of the Series X and PS5 upon their release.

I’d love to buy the 65” C9 but at £2,000 it’s just too much money for a TV to me. I’ll be happy with the 55” if it lasts at least 3 or 4 years and when it is time to buy a new TV again, I’ll be looking at getting at least a 65” QLED 8K TV (with fully supported HDMI 2.1 of course) in the hope that it will be at a more affordable price. MicroLED TVs could be an option but I don’t know much about them at all, only what you explained about it and like you said it’ll be pricey and we don’t know if any are going to be in mass production anytime soon.

In the meantime I’m going to want to look at how to best look after the C9 by minimising the risks such as lowering the OLED brightness, setting the Logo Luminance Adjustment to low and just by trying to not have it on for hours on end every day to prolong its lifespan.

I didn’t create this thread just for myself, it’d be interesting to see what other people are planning to play their Series X/S on and maybe help someone decide which TV will be best for them to prepare them the next generation of consoles. I’ve seen on some forums that some people are happy to still be playing on their 1080p TVs or happy with their low budget 4K HDR TVs, I’ve seen some Samsung and LG 55” TVs for under £500.

Edited on by MaccaMUFC

MaccaMUFC

BAMozzy

What you want to be aware of with OLEDs is the static logos/boxes etc in 1 (red, green blue) or 2 (Cyan, Magenta, Yellow) colour - especially if bright because they will be using a 1 or 2 sub-pixels continuously. If you use Netflix, don't spend ages trying to find something to watch - maybe search online and add to your list.

Set the Brightness as low as you can comfortably watch too - that way it will reduce the wear a bit - especially those single sub-pixel colours - be aware of static elements - even if they having moving parts - like scrolling text. White logos aren't so bad - especially overlays as they use all sub-pixels. Its mostly be aware of things you probably don't realise - like EPG's or watching GMB for 20-30mins in the morning - all those little things will add up over time and because those boxes/logo's etc are in the same place every time, its the same sub-pixels getting worn.

Sony recommends that you don't watch 21:9 movies at that perspective but zoom in so you don't get the black bars and therefore cause more wear to the middle that could eventually 'dim' leaving the 'black bar' areas brighter in regular 16:9 ratio. They also recommend you don't use EPG's too which does make you question why they have EPG's on their TV and other things that can cause uneven wear. I know why because their TV's wouldn't sell if other TV's offer Netflix, 7 day EPG's etc.

My attitude too is that I would rather spend £1k on a TV now and get say 3 years out of it (maybe more) than spend the same and then want to upgrade in 6-8months because it doesn't do what I want/need - like be able to plug more than 1 HDMI 2.1 device into at a time and still have to put up with its 'flaws'. It maybe is easy to tolerate those flaws knowing it will be consistent and last for many years but if I have a TV for just a few years, why not have one that has an exception PQ - even if that will eventually deteriorate as organic compounds do break down. I know you shouldn't have to worry about what you watch and how many hours it can accumulate over time but considering the competition right now, there really isn't anything better on the market in the same price/size. It could be years before the 'benefits' of buying a QLED today actually become 'benefits' to you and if managed well, those drawbacks may not show themselves before you are considering a replacement anyway.

I hope it serves you well...

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

Xbox Gamertag: bamozzy

BlueOcean

I own the LG C9 and I can't recommend it enough. I know that burn-in is not a widespread issue because I read the avforums.com with owners of older models that are happy and the C9 model has more burn-in protection. I don't know how many years my TV will last but in the meantime I'm enjoying the best picture I've ever seen, with really low lag and real HDMI 2.1 and its power consumption is less than any LCD/LED/QLED TV.

BlueOcean

MaccaMUFC

@BlueOcean I’m still deciding on the C9 for now but been reading that Samsung’s 55” Q75T will support HDMI 2.1 but still not sure what features it’ll have, I know VRR is one but that’s all I know right now.

I guess I’m just paranoid that if I do get the C9 that my family will not take much care of it when I’m out the house like pausing it for too long or spending too long browsing Netflix that it’ll cause it burn-in or get faded pixels over time. As well as those concerns, the fact that I know the TV will be used for a lot of hours everyday as in at least 10 hours.

MaccaMUFC

Nexozi

Hey all, I've been trying to decide which TV to go for as well. Been jumping back and forth between the Samsung and the LG.

BlueOcean with the C9 do you notice any stuttering or anything like that when playing older games? I read that the Samsung has Freesync premium which extends the range lower than just standard freesync. LG have not confirmed if its using just freesync or freesync premium.

Overall I'm edging towards the LG as I usually play in a dark room. I am a bit worried about burn-in, though I had a plasma years ago and had no issues.

Nexozi

Nexozi

Now thinking of getting the Samsung after watching this:

Nexozi

ThanosReXXX

Best TV: LG C9, hands down. No competition, really. Having good black levels is pretty important, so such benefits outweigh any options that other TVs might give you. And on top of that, very low latency as well, also important for gaming.

On average, and across the board, LG screens score the best in a multitude of tests. Just a couple of examples:

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/best/by-usage/video-gaming

https://www.gamesradar.com/best-gaming-tvs/

https://www.cnet.com/news/best-tvs-for-gaming-in-2020-low-inp...

Edited on by ThanosReXXX

'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Xbox Gamertag: ThanosReXXX

ThanosReXXX

@Nexozi When you're about to spend that kind of money, I'd sooner trust more reputable YouTube channels, such as the ones I posted above...

'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Xbox Gamertag: ThanosReXXX

Nexozi

@ThanosReXXX thanks, I've watched those and quite a few other. Have been trying to watch anything and everything. Wanting to make sure I get something that'll last for a good few years. The C9 and the CX seem quite similar, not sure if the CX is worth the extra money though.

Nexozi

ThanosReXXX

@Nexozi I'd go for the advice of the Digital Foundry specialists: best allround gaming TV is a B9 or C9. You really can't go wrong with either one.

'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Xbox Gamertag: ThanosReXXX

MaccaMUFC

@ThanosReXXX @Nexozi What about those terrible blacks and gamma with the C9 when VRR is on? It looks unacceptable and would put me off purchasing it when I’ll always be using VRR when I get the Series X.

I get the C9 is unrivalled when it comes to black levels but that doesn’t mean some of Samsung’s QLED models have poor black levels in comparison, they are still very good and have much better brightness over OLED.

I’m just not sure it’s worth paying extra and having to put up with the risk of image retention and faded/dead pixels just to have the best blacks. I’m honestly swaying more towards Samsung’s Q75T right now.

Edited on by MaccaMUFC

MaccaMUFC

ThanosReXXX

@MaccaMUFC Just watch that Digital Foundry video I posted above. In it, they'll tell you all about the difference between the LG 9 series and the Samsung screens.

On a side note: I've never heard or read any complaints about "terrible blacks" or gamma issues on the C9, so I've no idea where you got that from. The blacks and contrasts on the C9 are actually unrivaled and rich, because of how the display works.

And as also mentioned in that same video, there are all kinds of counter measures built in nowadays, to prevent burn-in or image retention. These aren't the early days of plasma or older OLED screens anymore, after all...

The second video I posted is also well worth a watch, to get why you should SERIOUSLY consider the LG screen, so if you haven't watched either of those videos yet, you might want to give them a go...

Oh, and here's another video, specifically about what settings to use when using an Xbox One X with VRR on an LG C9 (according to this YouTuber's own comments in the replies underneath the video, it should work the same on series X):

Edited on by ThanosReXXX

'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Xbox Gamertag: ThanosReXXX

MaccaMUFC

@ThanosReXXX I mentioned the issues about blacks and gamma by going off the YouTube video that Nexozi posted the other day. It showed a comparison with VRR on and off and when it was on the black areas on the screen lost its deep blacks compared to when VRR was off. I saw people mentioning about this from different forums and that it suffered from tearing, stutter and white lines appearing on screen but those could of been fixed by now by a patch via firmware.

I see a lot of mention about G-Sync when reading or watching videos about the C9 but isn’t that relevant if your only gaming on PC?

I did watch the videos you posted and both the C9 and a top range QLED have their pros and cons with OLED having better blacks but QLED having better brightness. I could do with a microLED TV as it could do both and would make my choice a lot easier but it’s not even in mass production yet as it’s a new technology.

Edited on by MaccaMUFC

MaccaMUFC

BlueOcean

@Nexozi For VRR you need HDMI 2.1. Even if Samsung has VRR through 2.0b it's just Xbox One X at the moment the only console that uses VRR and to use VRR you need both TV and console to have the feature built in, not just the TV. That said, Wii U looks awesome on the C9 and the low input lag also helps. The upscaling is pretty good.

@MaccaMUFC I can confirm that there aren't any issues when using VRR on LG C9. I know because I have a C9 and an Xbox One X with this feature always on. If there are any issues on C9 it could be because the firmware wasn't updated or because the unit is faulty. If there are issues on CX it could be just bugs of a brand-new chip and firmware that will be obviously fixed by a firmware update. Besides, C9 is not just great because of the blacks like you suggested, colours are all better on a good OLED panel. Extra bonuses include natively lower lag and lower power consumption. It's not just about the blacks. Although the C9 does HDR extremely well, don't forget also about dark areas and contrast. Resident Evil games (not just VII and 2 which have HDR) are perfect for being blown away by a great OLED TV because of the lighting and contrast. On a LCD/LED/QLED TV a huge amount of details is missed. What do you think is better, a brighter picture or a better picture?

Edited on by BlueOcean

BlueOcean

Nexozi

@MaccaMUFC @BlueOcean @ThanosReXXX

Thanks for the updates. I do like Joelster, I got a monitor recommend by him previously and its been great. Rtings have released the review for the LG CX.

Comparing the C9 and CX review side by side and a quick glance at the ratings and they're the same. But looking through the review and quite a lot of the CX ratings are not as good as the C9.

Areas the C9 is better than the CX:
Motion overall
Picture quality overall, with the following being better;
HDR peak brightness
grey uniformity
viewing angle
colour volume
gradient

Areas the CX is better than the C9:
Picture quality - pre calibration and post calibration
Motion - Black Frame Insertion (But I believe if this is enabled you don't get VRR, maybe someone else can confirm).
Sound quality

The CX seems to be a minor update rather than a leap forwards in tech.

So think I'd go for the C9 over the CX. I'm going to currys to see if their extended warranty covers burn-in. If it does then I'm going to go for the C9.

Nexozi

BlueOcean

@Nexozi Congratulations for choosing an awesome TV! The conclusions that you posted are useful. I don't think that CX is necessary, the big leap for gamers was from C8 to C9, not from C9 to CX. Regarding sound quality, the C9 was not built for that and there are more expensive LG models for more impressive sound. However, the C9 has a decent subwoofer and if I hear the TV at a low or medium volume then I find the sound to be very good considering that it's a great value TV. Even music sounds great around level 20.

BlueOcean

ThanosReXXX

@MaccaMUFC Well, most tests, including those I posted all range the LG 8 AND 9 series as the best overall TV's for gaming, so I don't know what else to tell you. And personally, I'd say that better blacks are more important than better brightness. It's all a matter of tuning anyway, where the latter is concerned.

Either way, LG comes out on top in FAR more cases than any other screen.

I could list more stuff, but both @BlueOcean and @Nexozi have already done that, so I'd just be repeating what they said.

Ultimately, though, it's your own choice, so if you'd rather prefer a Samsung screen, then that's fine by me. If a screen is predominantly meant for gaming, I would take all the pros of the LG into SERIOUS consideration, though.

@Nexozi You're welcome.

'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Xbox Gamertag: ThanosReXXX

ThanosReXXX

@MaccaMUFC Oh, and as for your question on G-Sync on the C9, I hope these will give you the answer:

'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Xbox Gamertag: ThanosReXXX

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