Soapbox: Live Service Expectations Are The Issue, Not Halo Infinite

Thank you! Agree 100%. Don’t let GaaS distract you from the gameplay. Ignore cosmetics and just play Halo!

The problem is that the core gameplay is great, but everything around it is terrible. They just told us how their matchmaking works and it’s so bad. Here’s the article https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/closer-look-halo-infinites-ranked-experience

The rundown is that there is a background matchmaking system that applies to everything (including ranked). This is largely dependent upon kills and once it gets high enough it just doesn’t go down. So if you played 30 matches of bot boot camp and did really well, then the game thinks that you’re a pro player and then you get matched with good players even in ranked. This will override your visible rank. On top of this at certain levels you will get matched with worse players because you should be able to care them according to the game. This is a huge, fundamental problem with the multiplayer. They are going to have to rework the whole system because of how bad it is.

Respectfully disagree.

Games should be filled with content on day one, and in fact, more content than its predecessors (which bf2042 and halo infinite aren't good examples of this), especially in a new generation where standards are higher because we know what's the best of the best from last generation.

Some games these days are releasing with less content than some games back on the 360/ps3 era. GaaS can be good, but the launch day content has to have A LOT of content (excuse the redundancy). Otherwise delay it.

I'm tired of waiting months or even years for GaaS to match previous gen multiplayer game amount of content.

Another thing GaaS worry me is that it's too dependent on whales while making the non payers grind and grind so much and the only way out of it is to pay large amounts of money for what? some operators, characters, guns etc.? I like Monster Hunter approach more. Premium expansions is the way to go imo. I paid $40 for MH iceborne and it was literally as big as the base game, and it sold 8m (probably best dlc sold??).

Heard Destiny 2 removes the content you pay for, so that's the worst way to do it imo. Overwatch was perfectly fair too.

Oh and... I prefer $60-70 initial purchase. Being free to play makes the devs get away with having less content and I gotta be honest... I give extra points on multiplayer games that are free vs ones I paid $60 because well... I paid $60.

The reason for this is that the devs are pressured to making a high end multiplayer filled with content. Most free to play games release with barebones content. I dislike the last part where it says Gamepass makes it better. No it doesn't. I don't like people using Gamepass as a an excuse for this or games that aren't that high end. It's just an excuse to not do the best at the end of the day.

Ubisoft, Sony and Xbox will be interesting to watch in the next few years. WB is releasing 4 multiplayer games very soon so that is another to see how they handle it. Hopefully, some of these actually respect our time and money.

Game is amazing. i dont mind if we have to wait for more maps. I love how shooting feels. the game mechanics are very good. BUT..... the season pass leveling up is absolutely ridiculous. yje fact that your perfromance dont matter at all and you only get xp with those ridiculous challenges is horrible. Thats my only complain about the game. love the game but I HATE.. and i really mean it... i HATE the xp system.

I've stopped playing for now but it's not because I don't like it or I'm not upset with 343 with the slow updates. Great games/content takes time to develop and frankly I find Halo's more chill approach to the "live service" model refreshing. It doesn't feel like Halo is my job. I don't need to worry about if I'm up to date or not with the game. That's primarily why I stopped playing Destiny a while ago. It's exhausting trying to keep up with something that is constantly getting updated. And as for battle passes I applaud 343 for making it so they don't expire so I don't feel pressured to grind it out constantly in order to get everything I already paid for.

I understand people wanting new things but sometimes it's best just to appreciate what's there. Take it from someone who played a lot of a little online game called Metal Gear Online. (The one with MGS4) There's nothing available today that even remotely gives me that style of MP. Halo fans forget sometimes how good they got it.

@Rural-Bandit
Easy the best tight control, movement and aiming fps for me.
Using series x with elite 2, tension set to firmest.
Just wish I had more campaign and area to adventure and explore.
I worked out on an early thread 343 have about 6000 employee hours a day, therefore I’m not surprised some in here ask what do they do all day.
That’s a lot of hours. 😊

Weird. Didn't realize being a live service game was justification for 30 tick BTB servers.

Desync so bad I feel like I'm playing on 56k again. Nah, scratch that. Games were optimized for it back then and still worked.

How about BTB that didn't work for months. And still only works half the time?

How about missing, baseline, features? Coop? Forge? How about broken VRR since launch?

Halo Infinite is broken at a fundamental level and their poor management of the game has pushed the player population to repeated all time lows.

This is 343's fourth Halo game released in a broken state with missing features.

The core game play is fun, no denying that. I think most people's frustrations come from the game feeling empty compared to prior releases and a 6 year development cycle for the game with that 1 year delay really hasn't shown that 343 gets Halo. It's the missing features, lack of progression for multi-player, and just missing basic features like l co-op. The shop seemingly got the lions share of attention because that's the thing they kept focusing on consistently after launch. I liked the game enough until I finished the battle pass and it's the only one I'm finishing because without paying, it gave ZERO reasons to even finish it. The game played kept me coming back but I'm just burnt out now. The game needs a good recharge but the longer we wait for basic features and less purchasable fluff, the more people will get turned off and leave. It's good that people enjoy it still even if it's not where others are at, hell I love Pac-Man 2 on SNES and most others dump on it but seriously, Halo Infinite doesn't feel like Halo to many anymore for the reasons I listed above and probably more. Game on if you enjoy it, but the people who don't, have valid reasons too and they should be respected. Hopefully "Season 2" brings the game back to where it should be but time will tell

@Rural-Bandit
You might be pleased to hear even with the VRR update the Sony A80J is still behind the C1 as best gaming tv for a few reasons.
Not as bright, no HGIG, no Dolby vision with 120hz with VRR, still a separated out in options.
And of course no PS5 VRR still.
Sony still a bit of a joke. 😊

Seems like a part timer at 343 wrote it up.
Nah but jokes aside I don't even play it anymore but I do get why people complain about the lack of content. And they're in their right to do so.

Gameplay is spot on.
The issue is they launched the multiplayer with a lack of content to keep it fresh and keep people engaged.
We need more game modes and more maps and less cosmetic crap being the main focus.

Fire-fight, grifball, are those in the multiplayer?

@bobzbulder The matchmaking is almost comically bad at this point.

Last night in quick play, I went 52-17 and led my team in oddball time and lost. Every other player on my team was -8 or worse.

Today I went 29-9 in slayer and we lost 50-49 because someone on my team was 2-19.

They can say whatever they want about their system providing “fair” matchups but it’s complete garbage and I don’t believe them for a second.

I can’t link pictures of the game stats if no one believes me but feel free to look me up, FatalBubbles7.

MP matchmaking aside, I don’t see how anyone can defend them over this game because they had unlimited resources and 6+ years.

If you’re defending them, that means that 343 doesn’t understand live service games or are just really bad at their job.

The first season is 6 months long, that’s twice what something like Fortnite is, so people will be bored and quit when they finish the battle pass.

We’ve been shown one new arena map and one BTB for S2, surely that doesn’t satisfy anyone if that’s all that ends up being released for S2.

This game has the greatest gameplay with the absolute worst systems. I’ve put in 200+ hours into this game but have just completely quit ranked because of the MMR garbage and the current event is just bad. Until May comes around, there isn’t much to keep people interested in my opinion.

I lost interest in Halo awhile ago. That stupid challenge based xp progression system completely made me dislike the game..

I just want to come in here and say that this argument is purely based on content. The BTB matchmaking was a major issue for months, that deserves to be scrutinised and so do any other major technical issues. However, I've had very few problems with Infinite outside of that.

I'm personally fine with GaaS games especially on Xbox as that is the eco most of my friends play on, and sure live service game parts of games are the issue. Though when are we finally gonna get an Xbox 1st party game not a live service based? Hellblade 2, Starfield, or when Ghostwire Tokyo lands on Series X|S next year?

This is the issue it will take 2 freaking years after next gen console launch for Xbox to have a single player AAA experience to release at the earliest. This is what people are complaining about.

That's embarrassing especially after HFW and Elden Ring getting really high review scores and selling like gangbusters at launch. Xbox needs to get things in motion this year period (not rely on 3rd party for single player AAA games like PS does for FP shooters) otherwise your gonna loose out on a certain type of gamer for X more years.

I didn't like halo infinite but I will say one thing, to me Halo is Microsofts biggest exclusive (pre Bethesda) so should of had a massive budget and a lot of content being released regularly, but from what I've played it didn't scream big budget. I don't know if that's because Microsoft didn't give 343 enough money or because 343 just wasn't up to the task. I feel like if halo was in Bethesdas hands then it could of been something special (just my opinion)

@Rural-Bandit
I think Sony focus a lot on budget and profit margins.
Like only 2 HDMI2:1 is probably cheaper than having 4 etc.
Gears 6, bring on the campaign I can’t wait
Hope it’s big and badass as ever.

What’s a Halo?

Is it an item in Elden Ring?

I have GPU. I have a XSX and I like others have said would rather pay for Halo. Get more content and a “beefier” experience and not have the F2P model that is being called GaaS here. That’s the issue with GPU getting ALL the games I’d rather a balance that some bigger hitters can still sell themselves and not have to have all the extra mechanics to get more money from me.

I've put Infinte on hold until they put more maps in the game. Still very fun, though.

@Rural-Bandit
Think I mentioned it on here before Sony do sometimes have a self destruct button or get left behind technology wise after making a great start.
Yeah their percentage in the tv market has decreased massively due being behind in new tech or being tight delivering it.

Will be interesting what way gears 6 campaign goes, maybe sort of open world maybe but channeled in direction for those big gears moments.
Release date 2024 for me.

If they're going with a gaas model then they need some solid gameplay and a steady stream of content. Seems like they're failing on both aspects of this from what people are saying. Being ftp doesn't mean you can phone it in, you need to put in the groundwork

Erm…no. I like to play a game until it’s ‘done’ if the content experience is sallow or takes to long to develop new content. then do not expect your games longevity.

A usual game is what 20-40 hours long and it’s done and dusted for the vast majority,

you need to make plenty of content over 6 months!!!!

Personally I’m surprised how many play the exact same game over and over and over and over, for hundreds and hundred of hour but a that’s another topics. Probably about their addictions!

You may know about developer burnout, but do you want to know what I know about? I know about being tired of everyone making excuses for everyone else, needlessly white-knighting on others' behalf who didn't even ask for it in the first place. I know about being dissatisfied with an unfitting, predatory business model being shoe-horned into a long-standing franchise I've supported since 2001 where it has no business being, and where I most certainly would never have asked for it to be.

I know about a fundamentally broken, lacking, content-barren multiplayer experience that fell short on all fronts, and failed every one of the lofty expectations set by it's legendary predecessors, all because the creators and publishers were willing to settle for less in vain attempts to chase short-term profits, at the expense of everyone who had supported or had even a passing interest in the project.

I know about spending more of my own personal funds in this console generation than ever before, subscribing up-front to three years of a games subscription service, something I never would have foreseen myself doing. I know about camping out, overnight, in the brutal November cold, in an ultimately failed attempt at getting one of only 4 consoles allotted to my local game store. I know about having to wait until over 6 months later, searching endlessly online, until one could finally be successfully obtained, after having to drive an hour out my way to get it.

Ben, you can love Halo Infinite in it's current state all you like; as for me, I'll continue to criticize, hoping to enact something resembling change for the better. I'm tired of, time after time, being told to "be patient"; it's not only patronizing, it's frankly insulting at this point. We should, all of us, be pushing these people to do better; we have paid enough, all of us, for their mistakes and complacency. It's about time we collect.

Live service games are complete scams. "Pay us now and we promise we will fix it later." Is the biggest lie ever told.

I enjoyed the campaign and whilst I know it wasn't that 'diverse' in terms of environments, the actual content seemed 'reasonable' for a AAA game with an MP.

There are 'pro's & con's' to both GaaS and standard releases. For a start, EVERYONE gets the same content at the same time with GaaS, meaning that the 'community' isn't split between those with and those without the new maps/weapons/modes etc that would be 'sold' as DLC. But by the same token, you don't know if a GaaS will be worth the initial investment as you are buying a game on 'faith' that the developers will 'service' the Game to live up to 'your' expectation.

Personally I don't care for Halo's MP. It was always a 'bolted' on 'extra' - a 'bonus' mode for 'Gold' subscribers. Master Chief and the Story is why I bought my OG Xbox and Halo:CE and why I bought subsequent Sequels too. Therefore, as soon as I finished the Campaign, I finished Halo Infinite -no need to return until there is some 'new' Single Player content.

I'm with others that disagree. Just because other games have had serious issues (Call of Duty far from the struggles of Battlefield and Halo) doesn't excuse 343 and Microsoft from releasing a game that was clearly not even close to being done. Combine that with the fact that things that should be much better, like matchmaking. Not saying it's not still fun, as it seems like it was the bit I played early on (I'm not really a multiplayer gamer anymore, but I have still followed along to know what's going on). It's just a shame it seems like this is another thing Xbox has struggled to manage right now.

Again, other people's failures do not excuse your own.

@Pichuka97 I'm burnt out too and am tired of posting the same few maps constantly. I've been having a blast with the MCC and can't see myself going back to Infinite.

Literally reading this article while hopping on and off playlists until I find the one I am looking for. Why am I doing this? Because every week, someone at 343 decides to link challenges to playlists that don't exist. Get 25 Mangler kills in Tactical Slayer. No such dedicated playlist. So I hop on and off TS until I happen to find one. Bad game design. It's not a time problem, it's lack of common sense. Just like launching without Team Slayer was lack of common sense. Just like Oddball being mandatory in Ranked is lack of common sense. I can give them all the time they want, but things like that show me that maybe Halo needs a new developer team.

It's a bit of both. It's been reported that Microsoft don't allow their studios to hire for permanent positions and instead use only 18 month contracts which would explain why longer projects like Halo Infinite are having big problems.

Meanwhile live service is also problematic, most of the time it leads to limited content at launch and the equivalent of normal base game content being reached year(s) afterwards instead of just delaying the game until its ready.

Halo Infinite is a live service game though. If live service expectations are an issue, then Halo Infinite is an issue for being a live service game and adopting that model and all the downsides and expectations that go with it. You can't separate the two.

And the expectations of live service games are intentionally built up by the model. It's been designed that way to increase weekly/monthly enagagement in order to encourage spending. That's the whole point. To reduce content undermines that engagement, leading to, as with Halo Infinite, reduced engagement.

And to reduce your content output of stuff like maps, while also having plenty of costmetics events, undermines the benefits of live service games because you've effectively traded worthwhile content for useless content.

343i, MS, and Halo did not need to go the live service route. It could have been a contained experience, especially after Game Pass.

Also, not being the worst one in a bad bunch isn't strong recommendation. "at least it's not Cyberpunk" is a really low bar.

I think Ben's article is spot on.
Yeah, I'm already itching for some more maps and modes... but I'm also happy to wait, as I'm still having fun with the current stuff.
It really hasn't been that long since the release and in happy the devs have had a break.

For a casual player like me the multiplayer works just fine. I can jump in, play a few rounds and put it down. But then again, I don't care about ranks or cosmetics at all. I must say I enjoy the fact that I don't have to play everyday because I might "miss something".

@themightyant Thing is though, you can't really release an online game these days and not say it's a live service can you? Of course we're gonna get post-launch content, and by that admission, it's classed as a live service.
That doesn't mean every online game needs tons of content every month or so. It's about time we paid attention to the fundamentals of these games and enjoy them for that, we don't always need to look for "what's next".

@Kezelpaso "Of course we're gonna get post-launch content, and by that admission, it's classed as a live service."

Pushsquare used this logic, and tried to call any game that got post launch content, a live service game. Games like Bioshock. Needless to say, the community didn't go for it.

There's a big difference between a game that offers premium or free content post launch, and a game that is intended to thrive on the F2P model.

Releasing part of a game, late, and patching in the missing pieces over a year does not count as an "endless stream of content" unless you're Nintendo or 343.

@Richnj I don't personally agree that post-launch content = live service, but that just seems to be the general community consensus these days, especially if it's an online game. I think people have a slightly different view on things if it's a single player game with expansions...for now.

@Kezelpaso Personally I think that has more do to with the fact that most online games are live service games that have paid cosmetics and microtransactions.

I think if you asked people if AC Valhalla was a live service, they'd say "yes". And if you asked if Splatoon 2 was, they'd say "no". I don't think the online mp part is casual rather it's just correlation.

@Richnj Yet weirdly ACV is a fully playable single player game without anything online or service-y involved (other than a boatload of expansion packs, and the ignorable "dailies" that are definitely live service features bolted onto t he side of the game.) While Splatoon2 went out of its way to become a live service with scheduled events and drip-feed content unlocks for over a year. Nintendo's been treating most of its releases as live services. It just does it in a very "Nintendo way" with mostly on-cart content locked away until unlocked rather than new content produced over time.