Redfall Will Only Run At 30FPS When It Launches On Xbox Series X And S

Ah cmonnnn, just tried Ghostwire at 30 and I can't do it anymore 🥲

Not really an acceptable way to play a fast paced first person shooter, to the extent that I'm surprised they bothered with a 30fps mode at all. Guess I won't be playing day one then, oh well!

Embarrassing at this point.

Looking forward to 720p/60fps performance mode introduced in patch 1 on my Series S.

Wow… this is not only an almost year delayed game, it’s also MS first £70 game…and it’s releasing missing a PLANNED mode? Embarrassing

Be fun seeing how Xbox fanboys spin this on twitter today

Very surprising, and holding off to tell bad news until 3 weeks before launch usually isn't the best strategy. Game seems undercooked though I hope to be wrong, well see

@Wheatly well, judging by the gameplay videos it is a rather high-paced shooter. Such games are way better FPS 60+. It's ok to play e.g. Plague's Tale in 30 FPS, but shooters...

I cant be bothered by this honestly. As someone who has played switch for the last 6 years, I'm used to it.

@Cherip-the-Ripper me nethier ... will wait for the patch ! It hard to play games in 30fps now

This game has been nothing but trouble lately. Online only requirements, discs with no content on them, no 60FPS and only the boring "Quality" mode...
I'm lowering my expectations waaaaaaay down for this one. Hell, sounds like I'm better off not playing it at launch and waiting till it's fixed as it should be by the late summer.

Not acceptable on a FPS in 2023 to not have a performance mode at launch. I’ll hold off until the update comes

@Bleachedsmiles I consider myself a fanboy and this is BS. Definitely skipping until we get a 60 FPS mode. Unacceptable at this point in time.

I get used to games launching before they're ready but come on...

I will wait till the 60fps patch or play it on PC till then.

Options are always good, but I usually choose quality mode anyways.

look im not into frame rate but its a joke the way xbox first party games are treated. ghost wire Tokyo now this

@Bleachedsmiles interesting when you look at it like that. I think people are crazy if they’d pay £70 for this cringefest in the first place, now it’s missing a performance mode, which is a basic addition in top titles and they’re adding in no online requirement down the line.

It’s no wonder Xbox exclusives get the reputation they have among other communities.

Where did all the "30 fps is fine" and "I can't even tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps" people go? Two decades of listening to that nonsense. Were they raptured? 🤣

I am just going to play it on PC as I do with the majority of games that involve aiming. Though I will check it out a bit console, for OLED HDR and to access the performance/experience.

BTW, how does Deathloop perform on console (if anyone knows)? I played it on PC.

I just... I just can't. We're really doing this, aren't we?

@theduckofdeath Deathloop on console. Dynamic 4K @60fps. (Performance mode + Visual Quality)

Dynamic 4K @30fps (Ray Tracing)

@redd214 They were probably hoping to get it done in time and realized they cant

Still excited for this game, 20 more days. Can't wait!

@Fenbops Deathloop has a 120fps mode on Series X

Certain games like Gotham Knights and Plague Tale 30fps didn't bother me that much after getting used to it, though that's probably due to being a third person perspective.

First person shooters on the other hand, are jarring to play at 30fps and with this being a first party exclusive there's no point defending it. I'll still play it but this is disappointing.

@Trmn8r I just quickly looked it up for Duck and I was also interested to see for myself. Didn’t mention 120fps as Redfall won’t even have 60fps yet 🤣

So another game that's being shipped before it's ready then? Not just Xbox, it's an industry standard it seems. But I'll wait until it's patched before I try it.

@Fenbops https://www.windowscentral.com/list-xbox-series-x-and-s-games-120-fps-support
Deathloop Yes, dynamic 1440p
I know because I run it myself when I play. That type of game is great at 120hz

Well I guess I won't be playing this at launch. Oh well

@theduckofdeath I'm huge fan of 30 fps. Majority of games that have 60 fps (especially the ones "upgraded" to 60 fps) have lot of motion artifacts that give me headaches and hurt my eyes. I'd be happy if the, omg 60 fps is God and sliced bread all in one stuff, just never happened.

@Solidchief Curious, so I have to ask? How did you play fps shooters before the 60 fps fad came about?

I'd be fine with a 1080p option on most games, at least some compromise over 4k.

That's really disappointing. I mean, I know they said it will release at some point, But I was quite excited about the game and considering the art design of the game you would think that 60fps on Series X should be totally doable

I remember when plague tale requiem cane out and there was a huge fuss over it being 30fps yet I played it and enjoyed it and didn't notice any difference to when I play any other games.

So I'm still looking forward to launch.

This is ridiculous from an xbox 1st party studio no excuses here whatsoever what a joke you don't see this from sonys 1st party's games Microsoft can't get anything right can they

I usually play in Quality mode and have np with 30 fps. But this is a bad look for Xbox and very disappointing for loads of people. Fps is best in 60 without a doubt.

Ok, I will wait for the patch. Couldn't care less about it at that performance.

30fps or 60fps, I still don't think the game looks that great. More of a wait until I have nothing else to play situation for me. Could be good, but It's not really the kind of game I'm rushing out to play if I'm honest

I'm only going to play this game once and I want to play it in its best state. Will be waiting for 60.

PC it is then. But man it must be a letdown for everyone whose constrained to consoles.

@northofthewall I hear ya! I’ve been on PS5 more with their exclusives due to price drops and backlogs of decent games from PS+

Just hoping for something decent from “the most powerful console”

Poor poor poor
Xbox Xbox Xbox
Different year same Xbox.

Wow..uhm...what?!

I hope that 60fps patch is something that doesn't take more than a week or two to drop.

@Dezzy70 Microsoft really can't get much right can they 😂

wait, ghost wire isn't 60 fps either? bruh maybe micro should have gotten out the console business afterall.

I'm surprised no one has said its the Series S fault holding it back, maybe the 60 fps mode is ready for the series X but they want same day parity across both consoles.

30fps on a FPS. What a terrible launch idea.

@themightyant My experience goes like this. 3rd person games, 30fps is totally okay. 1st person games.... 30fps is... Questionable. Give me some rock-solid frame pacing and we'll talk. But Arkane has a history of bad frame timing at 30fps as recent as Deathloop.

@theduckofdeath Wouldn't the "30fps is fine" people be the ones who get left behind?

On a more serious note, the difference between 30 and 60 is something that more people are consciously aware of and vocal about these days- such that the naysayers think that 60fps is some sort of new fad or trend. 60fps was the norm twice before (the pre-3D era, and the 6th gen or "PS2 era"), but it only broke into mainstream awareness just recently. Third time really is the charm!

I would rather play the game May 2nd at 30fps than wait out another xbox delay. If it's that much of an issue for others then they should treat the patch as their "release date."

Well if star wars Jedi: survivor launches with a performance mode on the 28th I probably won't be touching redfall before the 60fps patch. Was going to hold fire on Jedi survivor because of redfall. Probably won't be the case now. Also get a 10% discount for preorder of survivor with ea access on Xbox (thanks to gamepass ultimate).

Still pretty disappointed by this news though, quite a big ball drop by arcane and Microsoft imo.

@Widey85 I've heard accounts like this from a few others, and I find it baffling: your eyes can pick out minute details, but you're less sensitive to motion? I'm close to your age, and I'm the opposite: 60fps every time, no matter the resolution sacrifice, as the smooth motion (or lack thereof) is always noticeable.
A 720p TV looks perfectly fine to me, as long as I don't put my face right up to it.

Not a criticism- I just find it interesting and surprising!

I have never cared about 60 fps in co-op and single player games. Only in competitive games and I don't play those often enough

Having tried Deathloop, loving it but 5 crashes within the two days i played and lost progress be nice if the studio could fix that

Let's hope frame pacing is solid, so we at least have a fluid experience. But that is a miss, for sure, should have 60fps for launch. I'll be trying it regardless, still hyped by the game.

Well that sucks. Guess I'll have to move my pc out of the office to hook it up to the tv. For people saying we used to do 30 fps and it was fine, old tvs weren't as affected by it. I know for my Oled 30 fps is brutal. It's nearly perfect at 60-120 fps, but it doesn't handle low frame rates well. If only they could add a 40 fps option for VRR sets. It worked fine on Plague Tale.

@rustyduck Ghostwire has 3 modes, Quality 30 fps ray tracing, Performance 60 fps, and High Frame Rate uncapped on SX

…checks date….but it’s not April 1st

WTF, absolute joke. What on earth is going on?! 30fps unplayable nowadays for me, especially in FPS, action or racing games.

How do they keep doing this? I mean, yes, it's coming in a patch, it's not forever, the "proper" mode will arrive and it won't be an issue for long. But how did they spend this much time in a first party studio with a long delay on the game and it's not actually ready on day 1? Why is a first party release on a delay facing "we couldn't get all the features in, we'll patch the mode in later?"

Now, let's not pretend it's a Microsoft-only problem. Lets not remember all the features when PS5 launched that weren't actually active for months or more and were added later (and many still aren't), or the PS4 that launched with half the features arriving years later. And Nintendo that managed to not have bluetooth audio for 5 years in a new console, or launches incomplete mario sports games that the rest is added later (or ACNH for that matter.)

BUT....Microsoft with a thin calendar and unlimited money....how are they continuously launching incomplete games after lengthy delays without even that many games in the pipeline? And why is 60fps mode such a challenge it's not in by launch...and why was 30fps the development focus for this title at all?

Eh. I can never tell the difference between 30 and 60fps anyway so I'd prefer the higher visual quality and resolution given the choice.

@Sam_TSM I remember the early 2000s, too, how we played Super Smash Bros. (1 and Melee), F-Zero (X and GX), Mario Kart DD, Metroid Prime, Sonic Adventure (2 and DX), Mario Party 5, and countless 8- and 16-bit games of the previous decade or so. All 60fps. And I wasn't even into PC gaming back then, but those who were would have a few things to say as well!

It's fine if you don't notice or care about 60fps (it sure simplifies things!), but many of us do notice and care, and preferred 60fps long before it became a mainstream buzzword.

@Dezzy70 Windows 11 still can not figure out if a 1GB file will take 2 hours, 12 seconds, or 4 minutes to copy until the last 20% of the transfer, a problem that has existed since 1993. It wouldn't be Microsoft if the bugs were fixed.

People talk about PS and organic growth. What's more organic than Microsoft and Bethesda?

Back in my day they released games when they were good and ready (angry fist wave) lol. Seriously tho this sucks, I was really excited for this at the start of the year, digging the stranger things vibe etc but first the ’it’s co-op but you can totally play it single player’ to ‘only the host gets the progression when you play online’ then ‘ it requires a constant online connection’ to know this - 30fps only at launch. The edge on my blade of excitement has somewhat been severely blunted.
I was holding off on getting RE4 remake because I really wanted to wait and play redfall but I’ve pulled the trigger on RE4 today. I’ll play Redfall at some point but I’m just not that excited for it anymore 😕

The difference for a lot of people is if they use OLED or not.
Older tech has phosphor persistance which smooths over the gaps in a 30fps display so I can happily play 30 fps on my older LCD, even if I prefer 60fps. but I have a LG C1 OLED at the back of the room and 30fps just hurts on that display. I figure that's because when an OLED pixel turns off, it does so almost instantly, so with 30 fps there's a gap.

I don't know how such an important first party shooter gets released with no 60 fps in todays market, its just a major disappointment.

@Sam_TSM if you can't tell the difference, more power to you. It's not marketing bs, there is a tangible difference between 30 and 60 frames and yes, a lot of games ran at 30fps in the year 2000, but some were also running at 60fps.

No, it didn't kill me to play games at 30fps back then, but I definitely preferred playing at 60. It also didn't kill anyone playing at 540p either, or 720p, but most people wouldn't be happy with those resolutions on their series X today.

I'd much rather play a game at 720p60 than 4k30 if given the choice. The fact we don't have that choice at launch with redfall, a big Microsoft exclusive, is definitely a problem. I'm sure some people that can't differentiate between 30fps and 60 would be equally disappointed if the game launched at 720p60 on their series X.

The lack of a performance mode or 60fps at launch is also particularly glaring at a time when the majority of AAA and AA games launch with these options. Arcane also haven't commited to a time frame for the 60fps mode which is worrying and means it might not arrive for months.

I was planning to wait for the offline patch anyways, but man this game keeps screaming "we needed a month or two more to actually finish this thing".

@Sam_TSM I remember the early 1980's and beyond until around 1996 when we all played at 60fps and zero motion persistence and Europeans frantically tried to get the US/JP NTSC releases for that reason, knowing their slower PAL versions were worse. We went BACKWARD in the late 90's and people defend it as "normal." It's not normal, it was a downgrade we're still trying to shake free from, and every time we get close, we're thrown back into it from the sacred alter of muhgrafix. I guess from the EU/UK perspective it's "normal" but that's because you had inferior products from the start.... But even those inferior products were better than 30fps. 60fps was the preferred standard in the 1980's on our lead-based CRT 13" TVs. Why are we going backward in favor of marketing stills??

@TinTin Very true. Not just OLED, and not always OLED, the OLEDs in PSVR2 for example have a long motion persistence at high brightness that actually makes it worse for VR, but would smooth out the motion on a flat screen. Meanwhile my LG IPS display has a fast overdrive that overshoots and at 60fps it's as good as OLED minus the deep blacks, but at 30fps there's actually a back-and-forth juttering where any high contrast edge flickers a ghost rapidly a few mm away. TN panels, older/slower IPS panels, and MVA/PVA panels have blur and smear for miles that hide any frame gaps. I really think the industry needs to simply ignore 30fps at this point, if for no other reason that the smattering of display technologies people have make for very inconsistent experiences for different players below 60. It worked better in the PS360 gen when all new TVs were slow and smeary and hid it well. It doesn't work so much now with the mix of display tech being sold.

@Titntin Great answer and now I know what all the fuss is about… my TV is so old I’m surprised the plasma still works

@Titntin the OLED/LCD might be part of it, but the size of the screen is also a big factor. The bigger your TV, the more likely you will notice that a building in the background jumped left on the screen by a 1 inch or by 10 inches.

I am OK with a smaller screen at 30fps, hell some Switch games feel smoother at 30fps on handheld than they feel at 60 fps docked (not that the list is huge.)

They really should have just delayed it again. Xbox owners are used to going long stretches of time without new exclusive games to play; they can manage. But launching it in May in this state, and right next to a couple of blockbuster releases like Zelda and Star Wars? It's being sent out to die.

Fully expecting Starfield to be a mess at launch as well. It wouldn't be a Bethesda RPG if it wasn't. Complete with a 30fps cap on XSX to maintain parity with the struggling Series S version.

If this is 30 then that doesn't bode well for starfield which is a much much bigger game.

poor show. what about news that offline solo is confirmed?

@UltimateOtaku91 I played PT:R on Series X and LG C7. The graphics were stunning — I stopped and took about 50 screen caps along the way. Still, I wondered how much more amazing it would look at 60+ fps with otherwise the same settings. My PC could do it, though my monitor can't match the TV visuals, and I didn't want to move anything.

Another concern is that the first game did not have cross-save (console <--> PC) and I never checked the situation for Requiem.

Drama queens

@UltimateOtaku91 To be fair it's 30fps at launch with the 60fps coming later confirmed (assuming it's not 343 split screen kind of "later" confirmation.) So it doesn't mean anything for Starfield, really, other than that Redfall wasn't ready to ship still.

Unacceptable. No next gen shooter can come out with no 60fps mode at launch. It's bitterly disappointing Arkane have only just thought it necessary to announce this right now, and in addition to the currently unfixed always online requirement. My pre order is firmly cancelled now. There is no reason to play this day one.

Well, that's disappointing.
I'll wait for reviews and performance patch, it's on my radar, but not a priority.

@GuyinPA75 I've played plenty of FPS game on PC since the early 2000's and a lot of them were 60fps. I'm not trying to jump on a bandwagon but it's 2023, consoles should be playing games at 60fps.

Honestly, I'm pretty sure most people who will try/play this game won't even know what 30fps even means.

I don't play many new or current gen games at all but, of the few I've played, I stick it on 60fps or performance mode almost all the time, particularly action or FPS games. I had a crack at Ghostwire today and I enjoy it, but I'm also sure the performance mode is lying somewhat, as it seems to not be locked and hovers somewhere between 30fps and 60fps.

@Sebatrox No, let's not "whatabout" things and bring PS into it 😅 That is an issue but that is it's own thing. This is really bad, and Arkane - and I guess MS too - need to have a long, hard look and think over themselves about this. Can't be letting a FPS out of the gate with just a quality mode. It's baffling.

I've been enjoying Watch Dogs at 30fps with Ray Tracing and Gotham Knights so not too much of an issue for me

@OM1993
Just have Gamepass, why are you pre-ordering Xbox games?

@UltimateOtaku91 Did you play anything in 60fps just prior to it? It felt so clunky to me at 30fps.

@ZuneTattooGuy But there's no reason to play it on GP without a performance mode imo. I'm sorry, but it's 60fps at launch for me or I'm skipping it until it arrives. And I'm a physical collector, it's my preference to pre order games. I consider it a hobby.

Lame! Or is this a 360 game?

As I've written several times lately, it really is the dark ages for console gaming.

@Widey85 Well, negative or not, these "content creators" and game sites have to be happy. Redfall is steadily creating non-ABK deal news the last few weeks. Unfortunately, the news is not good and getting amplified and misused.

@FatalBubbles Not going to lie I have absolutely no idea, I don't check my games settings apart from when you first boot up a game. If a game has performance or Resolution modes on playstation I always go with the Resolution/High Fidelity option.

@OM1993
Physical games anymore are little more than serial keys on a disc. Most physical games require giant patches when inserted. So in 30 yrs they won't be valuable they will simple be a pile of plastic. Also if it's on gamepass you can try it, there is no harm.

@Joabra01Swe
Many 360 games struggled to get to 30 fps, many were in the 20s and nowhere near 1080p. So that was the truly dark ages. You having to wait for a free patch to an included game on the Game Pass is really not a big issue.

@ZuneTattooGuy I cannot disagree with that at all, you're spot on, on all counts! But me being me mate, I have a thing for having physical copies of things. It's the same with me for films and music too, not just games. I don't have a tendency to sell media so reselling at a loss isn't an issue, but you have a point about the patches. I'm going to wait for the 60fps patch to play this, but the main point is is that 60fps should have been available at launch. I can't understand why a modern FPS wouldn't have that day one.

Aaaaand Excitement level plummets to zero! Slow clap for yet another outstanding launch.

@Titntin I do not have an OLED display, I have a Bravia that’s a few years old now and I can tell the difference between 30 and 60fps easy. It’s become really noticeable since the new consoles came along. While I enjoyed A plague Tale 2, it felt rough, especially after playing the original at 60fps on the new consoles. Control was the same, if anyone says they can’t tell the difference, load Control up and toggle between modes, it’s night and day.

To release an FPS game that isn’t cross gen in 2023 with no 60fps performance mode at launch is baffling and to leave it this late to inform people I find disingenuous.

@Sebatrox
Of course not bit of niche product the PSVR2 and that hand held thing they might release as well.
Must cost lots of money to get that all researched and up and running for Sony.

@Sebatrox

@Dezzy70 "Poor poor poor"
not as poor as the psvr2 sales😅

Ooooff 🤣🤣 I liked that one.

@Fenbops
Definitely always play at 60fps massive difference to 30fps. The smoothness of camera panning around for a start let alone fluidity.
A lot less blurry and a better visual treat.

@OM1993
The game isn't a competitive game so that's why they didn't feel the need to launch it was 60 fps performance mode. They wanted to stick to it's launch date with a solid 30 fps. As long as it's a locked 30 fps I think it will work just fine.

@Fenbops
Also add VRR to the 60fps and it’s almost perfection.

@Phantasystar77
You are still supporting it by playing it on Gamepass. In fact Microsoft would much prefer you to play it on Gamepass.

@Dezzy70 I do not have the luxury of VRR but I know of the benefits it brings 😄 yeah I always use performance mode if that’s where 60fps is at, can’t go back to 30 unless there’s no other option.

This kinda stuff is exactly why I bought a 4080

Delay or take a L. The Series X shouldn't have to be 30fps.

IGN video and now this.

I’ll wait for it on Switch then

Why does this game look less appealing with every piece of news?

absolutely pathetic; 9th generation is trash and easily the worst console generation by far, just lackluster all around . 30fps shouldn’t still be creeping on us in the freaking 2020’s

@InterceptorAlpha because it’s just another manufactured product instead of a labor of love for gamers . don’t you know that gaming is all corporate now ? no uniqueness or exciting innovation & the graphics has no unique art style too it, all games are just colorful playdoe looking now .

i’m still playing left 4 dead 2 as my apocalyptic shooter .

@Cikajovazmaj 720p is terrible

Come on Xbox, please do better! I will still play this and await the 60fps update but jeeez

@Phantasystar77

Until then I'll simply just play on Game Pass instead of actually supporting it through a purchase.

... that will sure show them...

aahh i’m really disappointed with this news, was really excited to play this on day one but i just can’t play games under 60fps, just not an enjoyable experience

@Widey85 glad I'm not the only one who can't tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps.
Must be an age thing as I'm in my fifties.

No matter what Xbox does they always manage to step on their d**k lol.

@ZuneTattooGuy Microsoft would be absolutely delighted if someone that subscribes to game pass paid extra money to buy a game outright on top of that. It would be madness to think otherwise.

@Widey85 @NickramCTID most likely not an age or PAL thing. You might just not be sensitive to it.
60 FPS (or 50 on PAL) was actually very common and almost universal up until PS3/Xbox360 era. That is when somehow 30 FPS became "good enough" and the rest is as they say "choppy history". So in a way, most older gamers are more sensitive to lower framerate cap.

Maybe two tiers of GamePass:
GP30 for all of us who are ok with it and GP-Princess for those who need FPS60

@Fenbops I agree entirely. I notice it on my lcd too, but even more on the oled. For this style of game, for a current gen design, a 60hz mode should be manditory 😁

Holy wow, Twitter has gone into meltdown over this. I really hope MS and Arkane take note and take the L on a delay until its fully ready.

This is a 1st party title and it can't even launch with 60fps, I just don't get it. The series s/x is more than capable and the series X is touted as the most powerful console on the market but yet the devs just can't seem to push it to it's full potential.

As other have said, this has now gone on the pile of "wait for patch before play" such a shame as I was waiting for this.

@Valgore The Twitter uproar (and a lot of the extreme negativity in comments sections) is mainly PS "fanboys" going all Hogwarts on Bethesda and Microsoft. They could be joined by MS fanboys more concerned about handing the opposition ammunition than the impact of a missing performance mode.

It is unfortunate that 60 fps performance mode is not there at launch. Why this could not have been addressed in parallel, I don't know. I am a software developer, but not a game developer. Nor do I work for Arkane.

All I can say is that Arkane has never built a game like this. There is no proven foundation to fall back on and the expertise in-house is unknown. They were afforded an extra 8-10 months of development and it was not sufficient.

Redfall is due in 3 weeks. I have serious doubts that there will be a delay despite the "outcry". This announcement, so close to release, was probably them ripping the band-aid off.

2023 is the big year for xbox....... well ok, next gen is xbox's time to shine. right?

@NEStalgia they are clueless that's why

Oh dear. This poor game just can't catch a break can it? It's very surprising considering it isn't really all that graphically impressive honestly. Don't get me wrong it's not ugly but this isn't Plague Tale Requiem we are talking about here! Plus it's a shooter. Shooters are one of those genres that 60 fps are more required for.

Xbox keeps making more damage to its own brand than Sony and Nintendo could ever do combined.

@grumpypotato It's a figure of speech. I said that some people (YouTubers included) seem more concerned about the "narrative" than the actual issue. I would like there to a 60 fps mode, unfortunately, they didn't get it done in time. There are more concerning reports that I would like to hear have been tackled. No sense in pretending anything would be different or better without MS ownership. Arkane promised a patch to address the issue. 🤞

@northofthewall really didn’t have to wait long. So far I’ve seen Xbox fanboys complaining at why nobody has a problem with the likes of Zelda being 30fps…comparing that, on last gen hardware (being generous), to an fps game on current gen 🤷🏻
Seen some claiming they’re fine with 30fps because they’re getting the game for ‘free’ - which is awesome expectations placed on the quality of gamepass
Hell, now you have the likes of Colt Eastwood making damage limitation videos saying how he was actually playing the pc port all along, and it was having framerate issues and constant texture popin to hit that 60fps…after spending the last couple of weeks telling people how awesome what he played was.

A few have been quieter. And the news is of course getting lapped up else where.
Just a bad look, this and Ghostwire apparently struggling to hit a steady 30fps on Xbox after an extra years wait.

They are getting crucified by everyone with any rep in the XBox fan base, as well as the media. I have a feeling this will result in a delay.

@grumpypotato Each side keeps score cards with this stuff. Twitter is a breeding ground for the insecure and manipulators of the insecure. Xbox side is no different - still barely a day goes by without them trolling forspoken or psvr2 sales… so redfall having bad gameplay and then 30fps when, let’s be honest, it’s looks like a last gen game and is running on a last gen engine, combined with it being the first AAA game out of Bethesda that’s exclusive to Xbox…nobody shouldn’t have been expecting the dining out psfanboys are having on it today. It’s been earned…let’s not pretend it hasn’t.

The response to this news is absolutely stunning. I don’t get the whole frame rate issue. If the game is smooth then that’s all that matters . Plenty of games have been smooth at 30.

Get a PC if you want the best performance for a video game. Microsoft releases mostly pc day one.

Enjoy your games how you want I suppose but I really do not see how it’s such a big deal. It’s just a game in the sea of so many other great games.

@theduckofdeath Redfall without MS ownership would have likely looked like it being a years timed exclusive on PlayStation. Whether it would have still been coming out before a 60fps patch or not I don’t know…depends just how much ‘egg on face’ Phil Spencer was willing to take had this been yet another Xbox game missing the 12 month window they promised in June (making it 3 out of 3)
With MS ownership though MS still has the control to delay the release in time for the patch.
I personally think xbox brands in a lose lose here… delay it and it re-enforces the message they were so desperate to show they were addressing last June …that they simple can’t get games out - games they’re currently selling not just hardware on the promise of, but subscriptions too.
Release it half baked they get something ‘day 1’ on their subscription promise but the quality isn’t there so the message of ‘gamepass quality’ continues to be devalued.
And now, with raising price of their games to £70 too, expectations are higher…so their really can’t be a reliance of “we’ll just patch it in later” without the Xbox brand further devaluing because of that message.

Basically Xbox needs to take a break from buying and focus on what they already have. Get more hands on and actually manage these teams. Give them the support and focus they need. It’s beyond time

I have to really stop and think. If Starfield isn't out yet, and Redfall looks a bit of a mess, it's no wonder Bethesda was for sale. It's been three years since Doom Eternal launched. Then you have Deathloop and Ghostwire both of which probably didn't turn huge sales numbers. I mean, FO4 came out nearly eight years ago, and FO76 didn't light the world on fire. I do have to stop and appreciate that MS didn't really acquire a ship that was in ship shape. Bethesda was surely completely financially upside down. What the heck pays the bills there? Elder Scrolls Online? But there's also now way a niche studio like Arkane has ever been under a microscope quite like this. Those folks probably hate their lives right now.

@Bleachedsmiles If it is just the matter of the 60 fps mode missing, and other aspects are "as good as they're going get", then I say, release it. The game is 3 weeks out from launch, I am of the opinion that this announcement may have been considered fair warning.

Arkane games don't sell particularly well, as good as they are. Redfall may sell the best (or definitely have the most players), despite the chaos. I agree with you about MS stepping in, especially in a situation like Halo: Infinite and Halo's future.

In the Redfall case, this was an existing project at a large publisher. You have to peel back the onion pretty deep to get from MS to Arkane. People were concerned about MS being domineering, now they want them to be more hands-on. Arkane could have sent up smoke signals if they were in distress.

@Phantasystar77 If you are trying to "send a message" of any kind, playing the game at launch on GP simply tells XBox this is what GP players want. XBox honestly cares less about you buying the game, than they care about you playing the game day one.

I am not telling you not to play it, just noting that if you think you are sending them some kind of message just because you wont buy it, you are not, you are simply reassuring them they made the right choice by launching in such a state and not delaying.

Im surprised more people are not blaming the series s even this site.

@Phantasystar77
Yes Sony got their customers 1440p after 2 years, a $550 corded VR headset, and all the biggest exclusives like Starfiel....oh

@theduckofdeath Trouble is, Xbox is now more a subscription service - by their own making. Different rules come with a subscription service…the hardest one MS is going to learn if they don’t start getting these games right is that games on subs rarely get second chances before players move on…they can’t rely on finishing a game later via a patch months down the line. It will be judged on the release state. So delaying it makes sense for that.
Unfortunately the other rule of a subscription service is the need for regular consistent content…MS can’t afford to keep delaying these games whilst selling subs off the promise of them - GP biggest marketed selling point being day 1 releases.
So they need something to release next month… and more unfortunate is that, like racing games, fps is a genre where 60fps really does make a noticeable difference to gameplay - which the game will ultimately be judged on.

Gotta feel for Arkane. The game could be great but already the most marketing the game has gotten has been this negative news about it today. And before today the most attention it had was terrible looking ign footage and news of a ps5 version being planned.

@Ashadelo because that would be dumb to do. Plenty of games ship with 60fps on SX and 30fps on Series S. This is not an issue with the Series S, hell the Series S 30fps mode is running at 1440p, not the usual 1080p.

@Ralizah it’s not actually like they couldn’t have factored another two months, and it not be considered a delay earlier this year. They could have dropped itJune 30th and no one would care. Still would have been in that “12 months”. They need to stop showing this stuff till it’s almost ready.

@mousieone Well, if you don't show stuff, people get antsy and say your platform has no games.

IMO they need better communication between the developer and Xbox corporate managers. They would have known for a long time now that the game wasn't going to be ready for primetime by May.

If they were unsure on the date, they could have announced the release as being in June/July/whatever the worst case scenario date ended up being, and then just pulled back on the date to something sooner if the project was running ahead of schedule.

Almost any solution would have been better than "our single-player open world shooter is going to launch with an always-online requirement and without any sort of performance mode on our 12 TF console." It's ludicrous.

@SplooshDmg The poor folks at Bethesda have inherited the responsibility of almost single-handedly making up for the near complete dearth of other first-party content on Xbox, lol.

Isn't Starfield the same? What the hell is up with Bethesda? The Series X at the very least should be doing 60fps with these games.

@Ralizah It has to be crazy to them. They've gone from making cool multiplatform games that lots of people enjoyed, to being caught in the crosshairs of the console war during the ABK merger and at a time when MS is basically desperate for something resembling a AAA 1st party title. Those people are surely stressed out right now.

This is unacceptable, COD runs at 120 FPS on the Series S, You're telling me they cant get this to run at 60 on the Series X.. This is just embarrassing by Xbox..

@Darylb88 I know what it means, but honestly, i personally can't tell the difference anyway lol

@Ralizah I agree any solution would have been better any solution. I’m more annoyed that all the previews etc were in 60fps and know they admit that’s coming. Then preview the dang thing in 30fps not 60fps.

@Ashadelo more than likely not the Series S causing any issue with this game. Probably a CPU bottle neck like Gotham Knights was. If the XSX is at 4k 30fps even a 1080p 60fps should have been very easy to implement if ram or gpu was the limit. This has all the signs of CPU bottle neck

I’m looking forward to Redfall but it’s never been a game I’ve been dying to play. Just something I’m interested in. I’ll easily be waiting for the 60fps mode.

i can't believe it a first party studios doing poorly optimisation and ask to swallow the pill and wait until further update to get what should be already include at launch are they gonna show us the power of xbox series because we are almost 3 year in this generation and we still waiting to being blown away by future unreal engine 5 at 60fps, i start to have enough of be patient it will come,come WHEN!? in 2024-2025🤷‍♂️ xbox🎮 as a first party player in the industry you look bad, put your things all together and deliver it's only what we asking for compete and have a 1440p 60fps minimum standard of quality. i'm upset

@Phantasystar77 Honestly both Sony and MS seem to have terrible leadership that's chasing new markets and ignoring their current customers. On the Sony side they delivered a few safe sequels that were in the can already last gen, they delivered psvr2 which is my personal favorite platform of the past few decades but it appears they're activity sabotaging it. They released 2 Bethesda games, one from this same team, they have a state of play covering a third party game they purchased, again, and other than spider nobody knows anything else coming at all other than a laundry list of unknown gaas trend chasers and are assembling a new team to figure out how this whole cloud thing works.

Honestly I think the AAA industry already imploded and both companies are scrambling to position the mirrors and smoke machines so nobody notices, and I'm happy playing an alien bartender in an in overcooked clone in vr for $15.

We gamers are a picky people, 60fps is a divider between old and new, ugly and beautiful, headache or entertainment. HOW CAN THEY CHOOSE 30fps..

I was expecting to be playing this at 30fps anyway as I've only got Series s but honestly can't believe they couldn't get it running at 60fps day one on Series X. The amount of people trying to make excuses for this is honestly embarrassing there's no excuse for this not being properly optimised.

@NEStalgia With Sony, I'm pretty sure they're waiting for the CMA and EC decision about Activision. If the deal goes through, Sony's share price will plummet given how much CoD is associated with the Playstation brand and Sony will need something to make it rebound so that's where a showcase comes in. Do note though that what the fans hope for and what shareholders hope for aren't necessarily the same. It could easily be a monkey's paw type situation (here's your showcase but most of the 1st party announcements are live service games as teased a year ago).

Meanwhile Microsoft seems to be a case of rushing games out to make room for the next acquisition. If the Activision acquisition passes in the timeline Microsoft expects, the June Xbox showcase will probably be focused on what the Activision acquisition means for Game Pass. Redfall's release timing was probably to avoid being buried between Activision on Game Pass and Starfield.

I can easily live with the fact that I will have to play this game at 30 FPS on launch, (maybe in perpetuity since I own a Series S) but I don't get why would you hold off a planned graphics mode until a later date instead of delaying the game and having the launch when both modes are ready. Maybe they didn't want to delay the game further, but I'm not sure this is the better option.

This is pretty poor, Microsoft seem to be developing a pattern of releasing first party games unfinished. I know we live in the world of patches, but seriously no 60 FPS option in a shooter? That’s bad and bad management too. Microsoft you need to try MUCH MUCH harder.

This is not acceptable, especially on Series X which the game is expected to have a 60fps option. I’d rather they delayed the game until the performance mode is available as I’d much rather 1440p 60fps than 4K 30fps in a game like this, a fast paced FPS.

I suppose the barmy thing about this is that they chose to prioritise 4K @ 30fps on Series X over aiming for 60fps. I wonder why that was? Is it just bad management as I’d think any half decent Dev would aim for 60fps in 2023 on the newer consoles or did having to push out a Series S version also, make them go in that direction? But even then, aim for 60 on both and lower the settings/resolution. It just seems like such a barmy decision.

Always something with Microsoft. Either it's a partial release, or a delayed release, or whatever. It's always something. Playstation doesn't seem to have this problem with their exclusives. They release them and they almost always get stellar reviews. I cannot help but think that any game released on GP is never really a triple A title. It's always something with limitations or it's just not that good. And I imagine Microsoft saying "but at least it's on Game Pass." Lol.

@Romans12 I think that's half perception and half specific studio history more than publisher-wide. But they've been "modernizing" under new management. HFW had pretty bad performance issues at launch that were patched in later and an unusually high number of glitches for a Sony game. And Naughty Dog's latest PC release is a Bethesda-level affair if we're generous where they somehow managed to take a remake of a remaster of a 2013 game and make it run like FO76 was polished at launch. GowR was solid, but it's a 2018 expansion pack that grew into a whole game so there's not much technologically to break. There really hasn't been that much else going on to compare. Lots of tried and true PS4 sequels re-using tech and designed for the old hardware. Call of the Mountain was polished though. GT7 didn't have many technical issues though was plagued by MTX decision making that tarnished the launch heavily until it was fixed. It's not as empty as MS but the PS release calendar has been more sparse than their popularity and 3rd party deals make it appear. PC ports and remasters really fills out the discussion card for them.

Then there's the issue that the heavy lifting for MS right now is pretty much all Bethesda, plus the failure at 343. And Bethesda is famous for one thing: Buggy games that are designed for PC first with dodgy console ports.

It's a bad looking mixture of just the era of gaming now, even Nintendo's been getting into releasing half finished games and game-breaking bugs this gen, a lack of a prior gen to draw from on MS's part, and the fact that what they DO have is from an infamously duct tape and bubblegum kind of publisher. We end up with MS having no games and always a problem with their launch, vs Sony that also doesn't really have many games but the studios making the ones they have having more know-how at least on their own hardware. OTOH, Arkane's console prowess seems to punch above ND's PC knowledge which seems pretty poor.

This whole generation is just a mess.

@Fenbops I think the decision to go with 30 first is probably less technical and more about Arkane's own process where their games have always been 30 and performance games have never been their thing. I mean they've done 60, and this one will have 60 patched in later, but their whole mindset seems to be rooted in visuals over performance for their niche games. We're talking Prey and Dishonored team here. If it were id it would be weird, I think for Arkane it's just normal and they're not used to making such "mainstream" games. If it were NO 60fps mode there's be something up, but this is truly "the game's not finished, we'll patch it in later" Cyberpunk/Halo Infinite stuff again.

@Grumblevolcano So, basically #notE3 will be a crab sandwich but with a p because of Activision.

@NEStalgia you may well be correct it may just be their philosophy. With Redfall I’m not seeing any outstanding visuals however, maybe that’s just me being unfair but it doesn’t look like a game that should be limited to 30fps on the X. At least at launch.

@WallyWest Have they ever released a 60 fps game on consoles? Oblivion was about 10-24 fps.

@Fenbops IDK what engine it uses, but it's probably just based on their tech and workflow. They've never been a graphical powerhouse studio, and their games are always pretty janky and niche until now. If I were to guess they just start out development with 30fps targets for everything, they probably have messy design with ancient bits in there that ties gameplay or audio to framerate, etc, etc, and just work with what they're familiar with. Considering it's a case of "60 isn't ready yet, we'll patch it in later" rather than the game being "designed for 30" speaks more of workflow and priority and technical problems breaking out of the 30 loop without enough time before launch to me. I fully expect later gen games, and especially PS games to be 30-only because the visuals are "as the creators intended it". This one isn't that though, it's just "not ready yet." Which is normal for Bethesda but also sad.

@NEStalgia It supposed to be Unreal Engine 4

@AverageGamer Well, so it's not the tech. Workflow it is!

Damn, I was looking forward to playing this day 1. Looks like it will have to wait until we get the 60 fps patch that should be standard these days. I didn't buy a current gen console to play games at 30 fps.

@AlwaysPlaying Ok that was funny as hell 😂.

@NEStalgia I wouldn’t say “It’s not the tech”. While UE is a great engine to work with. It also have never had the greatest history of fantastic performance when it came to consoles.There also the massive issue with UE games being a stuttery mess on PC the last 3-4 years. Gears game are probably the only games where I can truthfully say I’ve 100% been happy with their performance for an UE title. Which is why TBH I’m not happy with every one rushing to use UE, and everyone begging for title to be developed in the engine.

@AverageGamer I remember when ue was kind of a bad performance punch line and idtech was where it's at. Then doom 3 happened.