Xbox Series X Chip Production Costs Hint At Potentially High Retail Price

Microsoft Xbox Series X's AMD Architecture Deep Dive at Hot Chips 2020 - Slides LEAKED.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-xbox-series-x-arc...
Check out all the juicy technical details, it seems Microsoft has added lot of server technologies and patented custom CPU (Server grade DRAM security)/GPU (XVA, Mesh Shading Geometry Engine, Custom Ray Box, Machine Learning inference for Res Upscaling, Character behaviour)/SPU (Project Accoustics spatial audio engine)/HEVC Video encoder HW tech. I will be shocked if this costs only 400$.

I think the Series S removes the need for Microsoft to establish price parity with Sony for their more powerful hardware.

@Z3u5000 $499 baby!!!! Come on Phil....if your reading this $600 is not ok! That will at least be $700 in Canada so $800 post tax....ummm no.

If it's $599, then XSX will flounder in the water. As much as I love my Xbox, I won't get one at that ridiculous price.

That would be the end. for more than 500, most people are either going to PlayStation or PC. Microsoft simply hasn't earned the right to charge a premium for their console.

@armondo36 Don’t know what you’re talking about...Digitalfoundry reviews pretty much tell the otherwise. Only a 1500-2000$ PC can match Series X, thousands of games enhanced Day 1, really excited to play 93-Metacritic Microsoft Flight Simulator with ray tracing - the only next gen graphics, real-time weather physics and cloud technological marvel we’ve seen. Apart from that, other next gen titles coming this year that really looks worthwhile are all cross platform which will play best on Series X for fact.

@armondo36 right! The series S is going to be cheaper but i want a disk drive. I want to buy old games, be able to rent and share games and watch DVDs...an additional $300 is a lot to pay to get a disk drive. I know a lot of tech comes with the X but if I had an option for an S with a disk drive I'd take that. I'm most definitely a casual gamer so i don't need the X (want it yes) but need that disk drive.

Yeah buts it ok to spend £1000
On a phone that you will have for about 3 years and massive potential for damage.
Or a top end 65” 4K tv for £2500.
Or a top end 4K player £500.
£500 for the series x is very good a value.

So it looks like we've come full circle.

We started with everyone hinting the XSX and PS5 will be really expensive but "good value" to the point third parties saying they support the current-gen for longer.

The randomly everyone started to believe the new machines would cost "a little more than the X1X and PS4pro" with some insane talk that that digital PS5 would be 100-200 cheaper.

I've budgeted for 600 any higher and I'll be waiting for a deal

@Dezzy70 different market's. And when I buy a TV I keep it until it dies, I still have a 7-8 year old 60" Samsung plasma and she's going strong. Not everyone falls into the consumer trap of just buying crap because companies need to make a record profit again. MS doesn't have a lot of positive vibes around it so launching at $600 isn't going to be accepted warmly even if Sony is at the same price. You're taking on the market leaders so you gota be aggressive. Their momentum has dropped drastically since they started having the game events and clearly they didn't know anything at all about what state Halo was in or they were actually going to ship it in that state. Either way all those positive vibes are lost and so is the ability to charge $600.

I think it'll be 499, and that's with Microsoft taking a bath on the price. When the original reports of not making profits on it came around, everyone thought that meant it'd be ridiculously cheap, and this proves that's not the case. I think it'll come in at 499 with MS making a loss on the Series X, and the S will be 300 - 350, and they'll break even or make a bit of profit on that.

@Krzzystuff Positive Vibes? Oh yeah that 6hr Spiderman stand-alone DLC built on same last gen engine and assets which essentially charges again and forces to upgrade throw a lot of +“vibes” around. Also didn’t the timed exclusive title “Deathloop” got delayed yesterday for next year?
I will be where pro-consumerism is next gen - thousands of enhanced titles Day 1, Cyberpunk 2077, AC Valhalla, Watchdogs Legion looking the best and free upgrade, 93 Metacritic only next-gen worthy graphics with real-time weather system Flight Simulator with RT. 😍

@Z3u5000 hey I'm in on Xbox this gen but I've always been a Sony guy. The neutrals think PlayStation or Nitendo first when it comes to systems. When i decided i would be getting a next gen system earlier this year it was 100% going to be a PS5, Xbox was never even a thought. It was only after a few months that I started leaning towards Xbox and that's because I was listening to podcasts and little by little it got my attention. Sony is the leader from last gen and has the most positive vibes around it for the non committed consumer... SpiderMan DLC and all. Most won't even know it's not a full game.

I will be getting a Series X after I upgrade my TV. But a $499 price point should be the goal for Microsoft at this point. All they have to do is match Sony really.

They have way more power & WAAAYYY better services. And Sony hasn’t shown off much in games, so Microsoft could overtake them there too.

@KelticDevil I'm pretty sure if Xbox costs $600 PS5 will go with $600 as well because Sony basically is PlayStation and needs that revenue. I personally don't trust that the PS5 will be a quality product at launch as they did reactive upgrades late in the process to get to the 10.3 TF and with a very custom SSD and now talk of Terminator 2 liquid metal it just sounds like it's a high chance of error in there.

@Krzzystuff

I completely agree. Rumor was Sony was going to launch the PS5 in 2019, but went back to the drawing board when they heard how powerful the XSX was going to be.

But I agree with you that the $499 price point is the sweet spot. In gaming, the $599 price point is associated with that horrendous PS3 launch where Sony told us all “to get a 2nd job”. And with the economy the way it is these days?

I guess I better start saving up then, if it might cost that much! Even with that price though, you get what you pay for, which looks to be an incredibly powerful game system. If you think about it, what you get out of this system even for $600 bucks is still pretty good value. I just wish Microsoft and Sony would announce the actual prices so we know what to expect. I don't like the guessing game.

I still think it will come out as 500$.. Xbox would be shooting themselves in the foot if Series X is 600 and the PS5 is 500$.

@Z3u5000

Deathloop did get a big delay yesterday. And you should see all the Ponies making excuses for it. But if Xbox delays a game.....”OMG!!! Xbox is dead!!! They suck!!!” 🙄

I have no idea what the PS5 will have at launch except for $60 Spider-Man DLC. Oh and we haven’t even seen any gameplay for that DLC yet.

Wait until the Ponies start touting the PS5 getting some backwards compatible PS4 games after their buffoon CEO Jim Ryan (and most of that fanbase) claimed that “nobody plays old games” even though they sell PS2 games on their store. 😂

Microsoft just got greedy with the number of computer units expected to be working. Expecting 52 out of 56 to be functional only allowing a 7.14% failure rate. PS5 only expects 36 out of 40 to be functional excepting a 10% failure rate and therefore is able to use more of the chips produced.

Microsoft could of deactivated six of the computer units and use the power of would have run them to slightly increased clocks. That would’ve got there yields in line with Sony’s and only marginally reduced performance.

As it is Microsoft have likely ended up with a system that is more expensive to manufacture unless other parts of the bill of materials are far greater for PS5 than the Xbox series X.

In the end it might not matter if the Xbox series S picks up the people who are priced out of the series X or if the series X is subsidise in order to price match for competition.

As I have always said, I see her at $600, not below.

@Dezzy70 I think £500 is reasonable price when I think about it, will be used daily and for years but I don't know whether I will be getting it on release.... I am not made of money and i don't think the other half will be happy us paying £500,maybe if it was £400 I could convince her.

I think selling at $500 would be too much of a loss for MS to take. If you look at the price of a Zen 2 CPU 8core/16thread 3.6GHz, that is £300 alone and a RDNA 1.0 5700 XT 40 CU GPU that can be boosted up to the same speed as the Series X GPU - much lower TFlops, less Cores and Shaders and based on 'older' architecture, costs £400.

I know MS won't be paying those type of prices as they will be buying millions and direct from AMD, but add in all the customisation, 15.4bn transistors on a similar die size (much more dense and more expensive than XB1X which launched at $500), the SSD etc and I would be very surprised if they can make a console with these specs and sell at the same launch price of an XB1X just 3yrs later...

No doubt they will sell at a loss under current market conditions but I don't think they will want to lose that much and its not as if they 'need' to sell the Series X either as they will have a Series S and a LOT of the games will be on current Gen too. Therefore if you can't afford to upgrade to a Series X, youo have the option of a Series S or 'wait' until you can afford it and/or MS can manufacturer them cheaper...

$600 is a good price for these specs and you cannot buy anything to compete with this for that money. It might be 'expensive' for a console - so was the XB1X which was also designed for the 'enthusiast'. Whether they sell at $600 though in the current climate, we will have to see. I really don't see how they will be 'dead' by launching such a high spec, high performance console at $600 and I doubt Sony's would be 'cheaper' to manufacture with their design either. Of course they could sell 'cheaper' if they want to take more of a loss...

People need to stop comparing prices of consoles 7+ yrs ago, add in inflation and look at the actual specs. If they built a Console to sell at $400, it wouldn't be much better than an XB1X - certainly wouldn't have the specs of a PS5 or Series X.

I think they are looking at $550-600 and waiting to see how much Sony are prepared to launch at. If Sony go with $550 for example, MS can choose to better it (lose more per unit), match (lose a similar amount) or sell a bit more expensive and use the spec advantage to justify it. I also think they may have considered a $600 price but drop Gold as an incentive too but if they have to drop too much, they may need to keep Gold as a way of minimising the loss. If they lose $50 a unit and sell just 1m in the Launch week, that's a $50m loss...

@Dezzy70 I need to know why word you live in. My 4K HDR TV was $400 new and I'll have it until it dies.

My phone? Well I just bought a LG V60 Dual Screen new for $500 after my last phone finally dies after 5 years.

Can't be 600 for several reasons:

1. That was fatal for PS3 so Sony won't repeat that price tag.

2. Microsoft knows that so it won't use that price tag either.

3. Microsoft can sell consoles at a loss and gain momentum, market share and subscriptions.

What you are forgetting is that if you add in inflation to the price of a PS3 from 2007, that would be the equivalent of $765 today. $600 today would be like $460 in 2006 and the XB1X was a $500 just 3yrs ago.

The BIG reason that Sony struggled with its $600 price point was because MS launched their XB360 at $400 (Pro) or you could get a 'Core' model for $300 in 2005. Incidentally $400 in 2005 would be the equivalent of $540 today - adjusted for inflation!!

The $300 price point of the Original Playstation in 1995 would be $514 today, the original price of the PS2 of $300 in 2000 would be $458, the OG Xbox price in 2001 would be $443 and even the 'cheaper' PS3 at $500 would be over $650 today - once you account for Inflation! Even adjusting for inflation, the Launch Price of the XB1X would be $532 today and the Pros $400 would be $434 today.

What you need to look at is the prices adjusted for inflation - the Premium XB360 was $540 (adjusted for Inflation) vs Premium PS3 at $765. That's a BIG difference in price for what appeared to be a very similar powered console - one with a DVD drive, the other with a Bluray.

If Sony and MS have built consoles to sell around $600, there isn't the BIG difference in the 'Premium' models. That's a BIG difference from 14yrs ago. Like 2007, BOTH MS and Sony have a 'cheaper' model coming out too - so the 360 'core' ($300 in 2005) would be $405 (adjusted for inflation) and the PS3 ($500 in 2006) would be $652 in today's money. I would be surprised if either Sony or MS price their Digital 'cheaper' versions as 'expensive' as the 'entry' versions of the 360/PS3.

Prices from 14yrs ago are really not relevant today - regardless of the state of the world - unless you account for inflation. You can't say an Atari 2600 was $200 in 1977 so Consoles have become more 'expensive' because adjusted for inflation, $200 in 1977 is the equivalent of $883 in 2020!!

I am sure that both Sony and MS have 'expensive' consoles - more expensive than the XB1X launched at and as such don't want to give the other any advantage. If Sony come out and say they are selling the PS5 at $600, MS could come out at $580 and lose a bit more than Sony just to be 'cheaper' Neither wants to lose more money than they have to so coming out at say $550 because they think they will be undercut may be much more than the other is willing to lose and they could of priced it at $580 instead and not lost an extra $30 per console. No doubt both can lose a bit more on their Digital models because they can get more money back through the store, locking people into buying from them only.

Just because MS and Sony are financially able to sell at a loss, doesn't mean they will want to take a BIG loss. As I said, if its just $50 per unit, that equates to $50m per Million consoles sold. MS sold 7m XB1's in the first year, Sony 13m - so do the maths on how much a $50 loss would be per console!!

Incidentally, gaining momentum can put a BIG strain on the Company too if every time they sell a console, that's another loss. If they sell 10m units at -$50 per unit in the first year, that is a $500m loss - Half a Billion written off...

That is a LOT of money that other areas will need to offset because NO company can write off half a billion just to try and stop the other from leaving them behind. There are better ways to utilise that kind of money to encourage people to join your ecosystem - invest that money into studio's and making games that people want to play - even if that means they have to buy a Series S instead...

Adjusted for inflation, the Xbox One X would be $532 and this slide clearly shows that the cost of the APU is more expensive for a similar size - let alone the change from a 1TB mechanical HDD to a 1TB SSD, more RAM etc...

@InterceptorAlpha
The UK.
SAMSUNG Q90R last year 65” £2400
For example

I think it is priced for me at £400
It’s a winner and maybe £450 as well.
Though even at £500 I would by the series x.
More than that would need some deep thinking.

@Krzzystuff Yes, the problem with PS5 is that the GPU runs too fast because it has fewer CUs so it was overclocked at the last minute and also it can't sustain the CPU speed. The overclocked GPU, Terminator liquid metal, the extreme heat... There's a chance that PS5 will not be a reliable console. There are also diminishing returns when GPU is so overclocked.

@Dezzy70 No one in their right mind that doesn't live in absalute decadence is spending that much on a television. When you have that much money to whip around $500 is a drop in the bucket. To the vast majority, who don't live in this little bubble of a world, it kinda is.

But hey, as Phil himself said, their goal isn't to sell consoles.

@InterceptorAlpha
No offence was meant, but you did ask.
I live in the UK have a very good job
Worked all my life have normal standard family and friends. I would say around average for the UK. Don’t live in a big posh house and in just an ok area.

@BlueOcean
The PS5 was/is a 9.2tflop console.
I think at the last minute they wanted to push just over 10tflop so they over clocked and made heat etc.
I think most games especially third party will only use 9.2tflop max.
Maybe when they get used to the over clock and the automatic clock slow down if heat becomes an issue they might use the whole 10 plus tflops
It’s much better to have like the series x.
No clock adjustments and lock down everything so developers know where they are with it.

@Dezzy70 Exactly. Another problem of PS5 apart from the heat is that when the GPU goes higher the CPU must get lower because they share a common power pool that is capped. Series X is much better designed with stable clocks for CPU and GPU without needing to be overclocked unlike PS5.

@Dezzy70 No offense was taken. I'm just pointing out that if that is what you're spending on gear you're in the vast minority which in turn sig ifies your situation is not applicable for the vast majority.

As an example I hVs a decently sized house and make good MO ey. But you will never see me spend more than 5,000 for a motorcycle. And here I am, having owned a VFR800 and a Ninja 1000. But motorcycles that retail for $10,000 dollars. And yet in my frugality I still got bot, brand new, with zero miles, for $5,000 or less.

The when you take in the current going ons in the world, people aren't spending that kind of money anyway.

If these rumors are true about the price then they have effectively committed market suicide. You can't price an underdog platform at the same price higher than the dominating platform and expect it to compete. Microsoft should have learned this already.

@InterceptorAlpha
The cheaper the consoles are the better
For everyone and me 😊

@BlueOcean
I know I have said this before.
Now Microsoft need to let their studios
Focus on the series x and it’s power.
Because Sony will with the PS5 and their studios will take full advantage of the PS5.
And what could happen is the PS5 will just visually look better on the TV screen to the mass market. Not on about native 4K or 120fps, just to look at on the tv.
And is definitely where Sony are focused on the mass public looking at the tv screen and that is what will sell a lot of PS5.

If they come out of the gates over $500, this is XBox Done for sure. Inb4 everyone comes in "but inflation, and such great specs, etc, etc." $500 is the absolute MAX they could get away with with a consumer entertainment device without it becoming a laughing stock. At a price higher than that, PS5 will devour them, and they'd better be launching XSeX as little more than a halo device (pun not intended) to sell xCloud and Series S that they know will have marginal sales at best.

It's a great console that I'm more or less planning to get at launch, but at over $500, forget it. Even $500 is an iffy price point, IMO, and even mightly Sony crashed and burned at $600. And once again, everybody, seems to miss that the mass market, post inflation, has LESS spending money now than they did a decade ago, so an entertainment-only expense needs to be less spendy, not more spendy. Unless it's not intended as a mass market device but a "status symbol" device. But that's not the look XBox seems to be going for otherwise they'd be promoting the heck out of Series S, not hiding it behind Series X. If they really intend to position XSeX as a status symbol, they're handing the mass market to Sony on a silver platter.

BlackBerry had plenty of reasons to tank. But as a loyal blackberry user I think their biggest downfall was still insisting on premium apple like prices after the tides turned and they were in a distant second. Android came around ad blackberry was done. Xbox here is not in a position to demand more and I'd argue even the same as PlayStation. They need to incentivize people into their ecosystem.

@Z3u5000 Gamers want more than "plays games better". I own an Xbox one X and yes, the 3rd Party games DO play better, definitely. Microsoft's history with FIRST party games, which isn't good frankly, means that they probably simply can't ask for $600 for their machine. Sony absolutely mops the floor with them at that price.

@armondo36 Don’t know about that, titles like Horizon Zero Dawn will always play better on a PC. But if a casual gamer wants to buy a console to play 86 Metacritic Forza, Gears and 93 Metacritic Flight Simulator at highest fidelity and cheapest price then Xbox Series X is a perfect option.

no one's going to pay $600 for an Xbox. Few will pay that for a PlayStation. the current ceiling is probably $500, and people will complain at that price. Nothing to do with Metacritic lol. it's about what the market will tolerate. Microsoft sold (at best) half the number of systems as Sony sold this generation, and the first big AAA game they showed off has already been delayed. they're in no position to ask for $600 for anything. i wouldn't be surprised if they take a big loss on the front end, and come in at $400.