Starfield Is Launching On Xbox This September, Developer Direct Arriving In June

nice, really hope it does

It being September makes me wonder what's happening with Forza Motorsport, will that end up being the big November release?

well thats the second delay, can't trust what they say.

Bit disappointed at the September date, but not the end of the world.

Honestly, from a marketing standpoint September is the golden month, close enough to the Christmas months, far enough to be on all the end-of-year award shows.

Main disappointment for me is that I doubt they will be packing much else at the end of the year. It’s likely going to just be Starfield and Forza Motorsport at the end of the year, and other smaller projects. Highly doubt we will see Hellblade 2 this year now.

By then ABK deal will likely have gone through, so at least on the Game Pass front we will still be getting Diablo 4. CoD, sadly, still locked under Sony marketing control for another year.

Going to have a “fun” day blocking all the “can’t trust anything they say” trolls.

September? So, November then 😉

Guys, I know we all expected the game in June, but let's give Bethesda the time to actually polish the thing. We all know how broken their games can be at launch, so this could be MS putting pressure on them to release a product worthy of the Xbox brand.

This sounds good to me. Even though it’s Bethesda and their games will sell, releasing it early Summer would be tough. You have Legend of Zelda: ToTK and Redfall — two games that will probably garnish a lot of attention, or, at least the former will. Let those two games breathe and release during the slower months leading up to the big fall releases from Sony and hopefully Microsoft.

A game isn't ready until it's ready. Unless you all want another Cyberpunk scenario.

personally i would rather take the delay till September as its very hard for a game to recover its reputation after a buggy broken launch. many publishers are finally figuring this out

I have no interest in Starfield but i really really hope it's good for everyone looking forward to it. But i just have the worst feeling in my gut about it.

@BlackMayge Isn't Redfall in May? And there is probably not much overlap between Zelda and Starfield in terms of release platforms and type of game either.

Could be a very busy month for gaming between Starfield and also Spider-Man 2 potentially releasing in September since they currently are projecting a "fall 2023" release.

im looking forward to starfield the most out of any game this year

I think Bethesda make good games

I'm happy to play starfield when it's ready but I do find myself wondering what games are we getting this year. SF wad a last year game, now September, as someone noted its a golden time to launch a game, is whatever MS had planned for then still happening.

Hmm, I must admit this is actually a bit later than I was hoping for.

@themightyant don’t care for Redfall anymore (online single player is [bleep]) and I won’t buy FF7 day one (will wait for an inevitable Black Friday sale) but yes, from a marketing standpoint, September is simply the best month for the game to launch.

Even if the game was ready, it would make sense to launch in September.

Ah well. At least grinding Sea of Thieves for the emissary rewards will pass the time. Then I've still got to finish Persona 3, start 4 and maybe buy the fifth game that's currently downloaded on game pass. But I need Starfield as it suits my play style which is slow and steady and look at shiny things because I'm easily distracted.

Well at least we have a date now so that's good assuming no further delays.

I was hoping the deep dive would be much sooner but it is what it is and we will just have to be patient a little longer.

Hopefully the game is great and actually completed but this is yet another self inflicted black eye for Xbox. I do hope that they get their messaging straight as you really can't trust what they say. Until we see the June showcase confirm the September date it's honestly just another placeholder. A company that's trying to get away from crazy crunch culture and release big games can't be announcing release dates unless they are locked in. No more coming I'm 12 months showcases please, we can't believe you.

But I'm likely going to commit my time to playing this so i hope it's awesome

why are people so negative

@Edward1871 cuz we're people....and mostly British on this site.... and they love to complain... just ask them.

Maybe one day, and I know this is a ridiculous thought, games won't be announced until they are FINISHED, allowing for a three to six month marketing cycle leading up to release. Hey, I can dream!

After Resident Evil 4 there is no game I'm looking forward to as much as this, Bethesda's single player RPG's are amongst my favourite games

Looking forward to it. Hardly anyone makes rpgs like Bethesda. Let's hope it's good! One of my most anticipated releases this year along with zelda and possibly ff16

@UndyingInsurgent95
we expected november last year! written in ink!

LMFAO it feels like I'm on push square right now sad i'm hype for starfield

Lots of people were saying November. So it's coming out 2 months early!

@relaxplease sad so negative

@Edward1871 I'm being positive actually. September is earlier than many expected. That's a good thing.

@Wheatly INCREDIBLE. Someday, the incredible inability of Microsoft to release ANYTHING on time ever, will be the subject of a documentary lol, it is mind-blowing.

@Clankylad @nofriendo and it's weird because NOBODY really wants to hear about a game 7 years before it's done lol

Who knows how this will turn out. Their games are usually very very good. Just a little buggy, I think if they can nail it down completely it should be a very good game. And tbh, they actually need to have that golden game. I think after 76 and how that was released, they need to prove a point.

I’m excited about this. Get it as good as can be. No point releasing a soggy mess and having a 56 metacritic and fixing it after. Right call from MS and, a fair spread of first party throughout the year it seems.
September feels right as well for some reason. Hope it hits that month; but if they are ready for the direct then they are getting there.

If people are worried about companies “lying” about release dates in showcases then expect them to stop showing them at all; not to mention third parties where they can’t be controlled.

@Krzzystuff it's true. If having a whinge and moan was an Olympic sport they'd have to cancel it because it'd be unfair to other countries.

That being said, September is fine by me. I'll have stuff to play and I'm looking forward to when it rolls in.

I can't wait for this. I may even trade my Series S in and get a Series X for it. Roll on September... yes I'm wishing half the year away!

This studio releases one game per decade don't rush them in the last 5 month people.

Xbox simply cannot win. If a game that needs more time is postponed, than Phil Spencer is a liar, Xbox can't deliver games in time and yadda yadda. If it's not postponed, then it's releasing broken games, Xbox ruined Bethesda, all unfavorable comparisons to Fallout 76 and Cyberpunk 2077 will emerge and so on. No matter what team Xbox does, team Xbox is always wrong.

@Magabro wasnt it due Nov 22, then by June 23. it is what it is, but can understand peoples frustration. Especially as it looks like FM delayed too.

If your not going to stick to the next 12 months mantra then get rid of it. Show some cgi trailers of games being worked on to generate some type of hype for your first party games. Who cares what the haters say, ms needs to stop being so reactive.

@BrilliantBill no there is a lot of overlap with Zelda for everything period. It’s a sequel to one of the highest rating games ever; it overlaps with everything like COD and Pokémon do.

@dezzy70 you were very close with that November Prediction

@mousieone Maybe, but since Starfield drops on GP, it will either way not be "affected" by people choosing between buying Zelda or Starfield.

@mousieone isn't it the same map though? How much of a new game is it? Zelda sequels aren't really a thing, makes me feel like they didn't have new ideas and are just expanding on BotW to cash in.

Until we get actual details about the game and proper gameplay videos hype level is zero.

@Chaudy
I wasn’t far wrong then two months out and considering I predict it last June 2022.

@Dezzy70 yeah I thought it would be second half of 2023 too.

@Chaudy
Currently Xbox are the easiest of all three to predict. Then Sony and last Nintendo.

@Dezzy70 yeah by far, its a pattern that's been going on for a while.

@BrilliantBill sure not buying it, but definitely play time.

@Magabro they need to do a better job of managing their release dates. Xbox management seems incompetent. Their No 1 IP Halo was delayed at launch, released a year later with none of the features promised. Xbox fans are not the problem incompetent Xbox management is the problem.

@Chaudy
Notice at the end it doesn’t say gamepass
Just the consoles and PC.
Any idea?

@Kaloudz
End roll didn’t see gamepass.
Just the consoles and PC

@Dezzy70 that would be crazy if it's not on gamepass. Might just be a editing issue. I'd be very very surprised if it's not gamepass. It'll have quite a big backlash

How many gig is Starfield gonna be!? Bigger than a COD??

@Chaudy
I’m sure it is on game pass
Bit it is a bad omission by Xbox to leave it off the end roll.
Someone ask Phil please 😊

@themightyant FFXVI being led by Yoshi P means I’m blindly interested on it. I don’t need any trailers, but I don’t want it enough to break my “not paying full price for $70 games” rule, my backlog is large enough.

I am getting Zelda day one, but I preordered that a long time ago for $60 and Amazon is honoring that. Likely not playing it day one… I never got around to beating BOTW, so got to finish that first. 😅

Odd strategy, which is what this is, I doubt the game isn’t finished, I suspect it’s been done for a while now I fact and this is a marketing decision to release in September.
Still I was expecting more form the June E3 showcase then one game.
This means Forza end of the year and nothing else. They really need to get Avowed out before mid 2024 then,

@relaxplease the point is that people have been dying for a BotW Sequel for 6 years. Most things are going to want to launch as far as they can from it. It will suck all the mindshare and media coverage. Literally, all anyone will be talking about is that game and most people will be playing it.

People really need not to underestimate Zelda. It’s a juggernaut.

@S1ayeR74 I agree with you. I think September is far enough away they they get out of the path of Diablo, Zelda, and Final Fantasy.

Game I'm looking forward to most. It has an actual date now, and a direct lined up. Don't know why anyone is still complaining. let them release a good game when it's ready

@Kaloudz

Plus there's whatever Spencer said about more "Goldeneye" like drops planned. Should be a really good year.

I am still guessing this means Ghostwire Tokyo, that I’m looking forward for, personally.

New poll: how many GB will Starfield be? My guess is 150 GB

@themightyant it used to be I would buy almost every single player Triple-A game day one. Until they got greedy with $70. No more.

Hell yeah! 6 months isn't that far away.

@Tharsman what I don’t like is the $159 definitive edition with a 40% discount At $95 so it looks like a bargain and in the fine print it was a couple extra cosmetic addons or skins….

@AlwaysPlaying
Well I almost got the release date right.
So I’m going 96gb

@AlwaysPlaying the only special editions I have ever paid attention to are the Ubisoft ones, and they are usually $100 including base game plus season pass, and a few months down the line they go down on very regular $60 sales (basically the price of the base game) while the base game continuously gets down to 50% off.

It's pretty ridiculous that people equate a game delay to a lie. For a release date to be a lie it would have to have been known at the time of announcement that it would not hit that date. You can call it a failure that they missed their goal but it is not a lie.

And after all it is only another 3 months. That is such a miniscule amount of time in the development of a game, especially bethesda.

Hell yeah, Looking forward to this.. Starfield is gonna be amazing..

@themightyant The broken issue applies to me too, but its not the deciding factor. I can afford $70 games, I tend to spend more than that on doordash, sometimes multiple times a week. But out of principle, I refuse. I know I am just a drop in the rain but they are not getting my money day one anymore, especially when the games go into sale relatively quickly. I have a nice bundle of PS5 games that I didn't pay more than $30 a pop just by being patient, and I didn't even have to wait a full year.

Starfield has to be on the level of "arguably the best video game ever made." Microsoft needs this.

Oh man, I can’t wait. Roll on September 🤤. I rarely look forward to any new release these days, Starfield is an exception.

@Magabro well to be fair, how did that feeling/impression come to be? Self-inflicted by Xbox themselves mostly.

@Somebody they just need to stop shooting themselves in the foot. Absolutely nobody made them do a show and say everything is coming out in the next 12 months....they did that themselves. Likely to kill some bad vibes going around at the time. It's okay to ask a massive corporation to suck a little less you know. I still love my Xbox, still excited for starfield, do believe it's the right move for the game to get extra time, but don't like being mislead still.

@Krzzystuff it's never been more true than in these times but you should not take a release date as concrete. Even more so when it is a broad window like "the next 12 months." I should have guessed people would raise a stink when actually it was "the next 15 months."

@Somebody maybe the company who is actively working towards not having crunch shouldn't give a date knowing it's very fluid? Crazy how it's them setting these expectations eh?

There are lots of people in the comments complaining about the game coming in setember and not in june. Those are the same people that bashed Cyberpunk 2077 to the end because the state the game was.

Game development takes time.
Learn to wait, or be used to Cyberpunk effect.

Hell, game industry 'fans' are the worst. Nothing is ever good. Always something to complain.

Go find another hobby.

🧢🧢🧢
I don't believe it
Might be a nice christmas release now though

@Krzzystuff that seems to be their approach recently. Hold the date until the last possible moment, until the actual release date in one case.

The messaging of that June 22 showcase still holds, these are the games on the immediate horizon. If you want to get hung up on the 12 months turning out to be 15 I guess that is up to you. It's still not a lie, just a missed goal.

@Somebody They should have just said coming 2023 in the original delay, would be no issue then. Game will come when it comes, i can wait. But i can fully understand people being frustrated, thats 2 of the big 3 delayed.

@eduscxbox ding ding ding winner ! 🤣

Can I just ask why people are in such a rush for new releases these days? There tons of games released each month, the beginning of this year alone has been ridiculous, so it’s not like there’s nothing to play. Then games are released full of bugs and poor performance and there’s outrage. Games come out at such a rate, people rave about them for a week or complain and then the next one comes along and last weeks game is forgotten about. It’s bizarre.

I don’t care when Microsoft said they’d release Starfield originally, I’m happy to wait until it’s finished and ready. It’s not the end of the world and plenty to play until then.

Am I the only one that thinks that's sooner than expected? I honestly thought they'd push it to Holiday to move hardware and go toe to to with Spiderman, so I'm surprised they put it slightly (but only slightly) ahead of that window.

I don't think I'm even going to have time to play it when it actually lands, probably not until Jan or Feb, so that should give just enough time for it to be patched so it actually runs and you don't walk on the skybox.

Also: Starfield + Quest 3 VR support, when, Microsoft?

@NEStalgia off topic but, remember you (and others) persuaded me to play persona 4. Well I’m 85 hours in and I thought I’d finished it… but I haven’t 🤣 it’s a good game but I much prefer 5, the dungeons are such a slog in this one and I have issues with the story. I went in blind and got one of the ‘bad endings’ only to look online afterwards and see there’s more to it. So I went back and made different choices and continued on, but that original ‘bad’ ending really hurt the game for me and killed my enthusiasm to continue. It felt like I’d wasted 80 hours. Now I just want the game over and done with properly 😂

@Dezzy70 when i saw this i was like my buddy Dezzy was so close. Great prediction tho, and it ain’t over, who’s to say it don’t slip again. I mean this is a game that will be 3X larger than any game coming out all year. Thats a lot of code to get right and to optimize over S/X and PC. Overall should be a great year for Xbox as surely June showcase will have some surprises.

@somnambulance yes, they didn’t deliver on the 12 month thing, but this is nothing close to an “empty year”.

1. Hi-Fi Rush
2. Redfall
3. Minecraft Legends
4. Starfield
5. Forza Motorsport
6. Ghostwire Tokyo
7. Age of Empires 2 Remastered
8. Age of Empires 4
9. Goldeneye

Even if no other game is confirmed for this calendar year, that’s 5 titles. 6 if you count the next ESO expansion (I don’t count it mostly because, as DLC, it is not in game pass.)

There is also still a minuscule chance they confirm Hellblade 2 for the end of the year.

@Green-Bandit
Hi, hope you keeping well?
Yes I was 2 months out Sep to Nov.
But that’s mean my expectations have been achieved 2 months early so that’s cool.
Don’t think it will get delayed again and hopefully the showcase in June will be fantastic.

Can't wait!

This game is one of the reasons I bought a series x this year.

This is a game that was supposed to come out last November and yet we've seen almost nothing of it outside of curated cinematics and concept art. We had one brief view of gameplay nearly a year ago and got to see some snippets of gameplay over Todd's shoulder in this announcement, but that's it. They said it was going to arrive in the first half of 2023, but the Direct won't even be here until the END of the first half of 2023... at which point we might finally see some actual gameplay worth a damn.

We know precious little about this game that's been continually delayed except that it's a Bethesda RPG in space. My hype for this is rock bottom and I won't be surprised if it gets another delay into November. They've already lied to us twice about release dates, not sure why I should trust them THIS time.

@Fenbops Delay is definitely the right option when more time is needed but I do think Microsoft need to do better at messaging. Look at how Nintendo announced the February 2023 Nintendo Direct:

"Tune in at 2 p.m. PST tomorrow, Feb. 8, for a Nintendo Direct livestream featuring roughly 40 minutes of information mostly focused on Nintendo Switch games launching in the first half of 2023."

There was some stuff announced outside that window like Pikmin 4 launching on July 21st but the wording accounts for that.

@Tharsman others might not, but I would also include the port of AOE 2 and 4, which aren't new but are a huge step in the right direction for MS as a platform agnostic publisher and for console gaming in general.

In the same vein as MSFS, people downplay the significance, but it's a really good thing that those previously pc only games are being delivered in high fidelity on more affordable hardware.

@Fenbops that’s bad thing about older Persona games. The time management of the social sim matters. Plus the bad endings (minus game overs) of P5R aren’t “bad” just different takes. SH2 bad ending is also neutral comparatively.

@mousieone I kind of felt cheated, then when I looked online and saw that I had to choose 6 or 7 very specific responses for a very different outcome, I thought this is ridiculous. I’m sure you know what I’m referring to. So now I’m slogging on, I feel I’ve put that much time into the game I can’t just drop it and I have to see it through. But it’s started to overstay it’s welcome personally.

@Tharsman - well said, and also a couple of AoE games, plus Goldeneye and likely Ghostwire Tokyo.

If that’s an empty year then I’m happy to have one every year.

Glad to see it finally has a release date. Very nice.

@Fenbops That's nothing compared to the Rin path of Catherine where you basically need to answer every single question through the entire game a very specific way otherwise the entire path is locked....

@Feffster @relaxplease edited my post to include those.

@Magabro
Totally agree with you and I moan about xbox a lot. But Starfield in September is fine.
If the game is big AAA quality and delivers the delay until September is absolutely fine.

Others do it Sony and Nintendo to get the quality of their big AAA games, so it is fine Xbox do it as well. Just to many people in here being picky about it.

@Dezzy70 doing well, been bust with selling the house and locking in the rate on a new one. Thankfully this new house is much bigger and has a large Game/Movie room. So i can’t wait to have that in the next month or so. Yeah you guessed it well. Hope it comes out in a good playable state and they will patch it non stop of course.but should be fun. Still wanting some great surprises at the June event.

@somnambulance personally I consider PSVR a separate platform, but let’s ignore that: how many titles does Sony have coming this year, first party, not deals (else we need to add Stalker 2 to the list above)

Of the top of my head:

1. Horizon VR game (forgot the name)
2. MLB The Show 23
3. Spider-Man 2

I think that’s it. Can add Stellar Blade to the list, maybe, it’s third party but it might be as Third Party as Bloodbourne.

@Tharsman Wu Long
Civ VI
Atomic Heart
The year is so empty…

High on life
Monster Hunter Rise
Valheim
So empty….
My backlog is so full!

@AlwaysPlaying I think right now the exchange is focused on first party games coming this year. Generally, this year is bursting with things to play.

Awesome to hear. This is shaping up to be a great year for XBOX exclusives:

Hi-Fi Rush, Minecraft Legends (not an exclusive but still a Microsoft game), Redfall, Starfield, Forza Motorsport, STALKER 2... there might even be another game or two I'm missing!

Assuming Redfall, Starfield and Motorsport were originally targeted for release last year 2022 (at least internally by MS, if not all publicly)... then where/what are the games that should have been coming in 2023 (that's probably have been pushed to 2024 or beyond? Everwild? Fable? Something else?

Love my Series X as a piece of hardware... but the games side has been a bit of a let down.
Loved Forza Horizon 4... but not 5
Loved Halo Infinite initially... but the maps they have subsequently added feel poor and half-arsed.
The previous Motorsport got pulled from gamepass AGES ago and still no firm date for the new one.
I suspect a new Gears is years away (guessing 2025 earliest).

I'm ok for gaming, as I have a lot of third party stuff keeping me busy.
But MS can't rest on a bunch of old gamepass games if they want people to stay loyal.
Hopefully Redfall and Starfield up the quality.
Then Phil needs to drive a better cadence for studio output (there's only so much of the delays you can blame on covid and I think the time for excuses is done).

I understand the frustration a lot are feeling on here. Three months later is not a big deal for me. There’s a lot coming out in the first half of the year I’m looking forward to playing. Had Starfield came out by June, I probably would have had to wait till about September to play it anyways. Delaying it a little longer is okay by me.

@antstephenson Starfield very publicly got a release date slapped on it 2 years ago for November last year. Then very publicly got a release window of 12 months from June last year. Make no mistake, it’s is an announcement of another delay. But least it’s a date…which is more than Forza has been given so far…which is also supposed to be out by June.

Ms can’t rely on 3rd party to fill their calendar year…they did that last year and we’re left with a few pretty weak months due to 3rd party delays too.
They also, ultimately, want gamepass on every platform…this will Never be a possibility until they can regularly release their own content on the subscription…the other platforms have their own deals and revenue coming from the majority of 3rd party games…the only way gp gets on PlayStation is if it contains just Xbox games…and a subscription needs content to fill out each and every month. So it is something they need to figure out, as for years now it’s been the norm for Xbox to announce games YEARS too early, then delaying them. Far more so than any other platform. Only now they’re also selling subscriptions off the back of these games coming when they say they will. This is why a delay on Xbox is likely, and rightly, seeing more backlash than a delay on PlayStation or Nintendo.

The whole message during the June event last year was a response to starfield and redfall announcing delays. It was a message of confidence that they recognised the problem they have, and are addressing it. That the value of gamepass yearly subs is this is what you’re getting each year going forward. Consistent, solid, yearly support.
They were subsequently congratulated on their ‘bravery’ for not showing their typical smoke and mirrors of cgi trailers of games coming years from now. It resulted in very little in the way of surprises but was a great foundation to build on.
Odds are Forzas going to hit outside of June. Odds are its the only MS studio game coming out this year…when they had no AAA support offered last year.

Phil Spencer himself said they need to do better at releasing games. Buying up publishers will of course be the easiest fix for that. But they really need to figure out a way to manage their own teams more productively. It’s beyond time now.

September is my favourite month in the first half of the year

@themightyant

If we look at Nintendo for example the only announced upcoming first party games off the top of my head are Zelda, Pikmin 4 & Metroid Prime 4. Two are dated for the next 6 months the other is in development hell.

Well, that's easy to highlight today, in the present time, but:

1. Zelda Tears of the Kingdom was announced in 2019,
2. Miyamoto has been talking about Pikmin 4 "being in development" since 2015.
3. Prime 4... my Amazon Preorder has not been cancelled so far, and was placed June 15, 2017.

I guess my point is: everyone, even Nintendo, tends to have development hell on their biggest IPs, and tend to announce and reveal things way too early.

The biggest mistake MS has done, IMO, is stamping dates. Sony did indeed bleep up, IMO, when they revealed Ragnarok as coming in 2021, but for the most part, when far future games are teased, its wise not to give dates until the game is finally on its final development stages.

@themightyant @somnambulance Its not only this year. What did Sony release first party last year?

1. God of War
2. Grand Turismo 7
3. Horizon Forbidden West
4. Uncharted: Legacy of Thieves Collection
5. The Last of Us 2 "Remake"

Unless I missed something, that's 5 titles, only 3 of them new games. They are fantastic titles, but my point is that many here seem to be expecting an impossibly high volume of games out of Microsoft.

I could see someone claim they have no interest in most the games XBox has lined up, that makes perfect sense to me, but claiming that 8 first party releases in a single year is "too little", is just unreasonable.

Did Xbox reveal too many things too early? Perhaps, but they were in a hard place and basically forced at the start of the generation to show they meant business for this gen.

Side note: I expect Sony to announce more remaster/ports this year. From the start of the gen, they been releasing quite a few (Ghost of Tsushima, Dead Stranding, Demon Souls, Nioh if you want to count a third party one) and they tend to announce those within months from release.

@themightyant Nearly half of those studios were acquired in 2018, while still locked in development contracts for other multi-platform games. The other half basically came with ZeniMax, with a worse state: their output for the next two years after acquisition were locked on PS timed exclusivity.

Depending on scope, a big triple A takes about 5 years to be made, maybe more (there been talks going that any triple A that starts development today is not going to arrive until next gen, and that dev cycle keeps longer and longer every cycle.

Smaller games, that some might no longer want to even call Triple A anymore, maybe Double A, might take 3 years. Honestly, if we traveled back in time to the start of last gen, Grounded and Hi-Fi rush would have been considered huge award winning Triple A games.

2021 was also a barren year for Sony first party, only Returnal and Rift Apart.
2020: Ghost of Tsushima, Spider-Man Miles Morales, and Nioh 2. (3, only if you treat Nioh 2 as a first party)
2019: Death Stranding, Days Gone, Concrete Genie, MEdiEvil (4)

Anyways you might get my drift, first party output is not usually that numerous per year, especially not Triple A (as much as I loved Miles Morales, it was basically big standalone DLC.) I guess you can add a yearly entry of MLB The Show to each of those years, if we wanted to pad the list...

I do understand that Xbox has not had big triple A titles other than Forza, Halo and Gears for way too long. I can understand wanting more now now now. Hell, I too want them to come now now now. But its just not realistic for the games to just drop that quickly, they take too long to develop and the studios have not been owned for that long (within the scope of Triple-A dev cycles.)

Ironically, my impatience is not about what they have announced but not arrived, and instead about what has not been announced. What are The Coalition and Compulsion games working on? They been silent for long enough to both have a Triple A title ready to market and ship, but all we heard is rumors/assumptions about Coalition's Gear 6.

@somnambulance at least the topic is coming closer to what it should be, the issue is not game output, the issue is Triple A output, and the last two triple A titles. This following is not necessarily a reply to the triple A thing but an expansion on my last reply to @themightyant about yearly output:

2019
PlayStation

1. Death Stranding (3A)
2. Days Gone (3A)
3. Concrete Genie
4. MediEvil
5. MLB The Show 19

XBox

1. Gears 5
2. Crackdown 3

2020
PlayStation

1. Ghost of Tsushima (3A)
2. Nioh 3 (3A)*
3. Spider-Man Miles Morales
4. MLB The Show 20
5. Demon's Souls [re]
6. Spider-Man Remastered [re] (could not buy independently though)

XBox

1. Bleeding Edge (3A, even if it failed)
2. Gears 5: Hivebusters (despite name it's a standalone release)
3. Gears Tactics
4. Tell Me Why
5. Battletoads
6. Minecraft Dungeons
7. Ori and the Will of the Wisp
8. Bard's Tale Remastered [re]
9. Wasteland Remastered [re]

2021
PlayStation

1. Returnal (3A)
2. Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart
3. MLB The Show 21
4. Death Stranding: Director's Cut [re]
5. Ghost of Tsushima: Director's Cut [re]

XBox

1. Deathloop (3A)
2. Halo Infinite (3A)
3. Forza Horizon 5 (3A)
4. Microsoft Flight Simulator
5. Psychonauts 2

2022
PlayStation

1. God of War: Ragnarok (3A)
2. Gran Turismo 7 (3A)
3. Horizon Forbiden West (3A)
4. MLB The Show 22
5. Uncharted Legacy of Thieves Collection [re]
6. The Last of Us Remake [re]

XBox

1. Ghostwire Tokyo (3A)
2. Grounded
3. Pentiment
4. As Dusk Falls

Sorry for the lengthy list, its not as many words as I can be prone to type, but its a lot of scrolling for sure....

Anyways, just wanted to highlight that its not really the title count, but the Triple A count. 2 out of the last 4 XBox owned Triple A games were timed exclusives to PlayStation!

*its not exactly first party but I still consider Nioh practically a Sony contracted game (even if its on PC.)

@themightyant work for hire is normal for first party, or would you say that Smash Brothers is not first party?

I also find it a stretch to call Microsoft Flight simulator a third party game.

I did make a mistake adding MLB the show 19 under Xbox, heck that one was not even on Xbox, that was an editing error while adding the year names.

Edit: (had to jump a bit quickly on this post because of work)
First party means ownership, even if a game is contracted to an outside studio. Death Stranding belongs to PlayStation, even if the PC version isn't published by them, as does MediEvil.

Would anyone consider Perfect Dark "not first party" because of its heavy use of Crystal Dymamics? Would Killer Instinct not count as a first party?

Crackdown, Ori, Gears, Tell Me Why, Battletoads, As Dusk Falls, they all are IPs owned by XBox. If the list was not about ownership, I would be counting Deathloop and Ghostwire Tokyo on the years they hit xbox instead of the year they were first released, and the main point is to show production pipelines delivering on the owned IPs, even if contracts are sometimes used for such.

Of the whole list the one I would argue is Nioh, but the way that deal is setup, it sounds similar to Death Stranding, where they own it but allowed someone else to publish it on PC.

What I should have added, though, are some remasters for PS5 that I meant to add, but I was working of two different documents I compiled a while back that had different goals, so those were not included there.

Edit 2
Updated the list with all remasters/remakes (tagged [re])... that makes me think, tangentially, since the PS5 launched there been 2 remasters per year, we have not heard anything of any this year. Those tend to have a quick turnaround, from reveal date. I wonder what they planning to remaster this year... I'm almost certain they will have another 2 titles revealed between now and their summer showcase.

@themightyant The studio count just comes up in the context of "how come XBox does not deliver more games given they own 23+ studios?", but the real point is: first party game delivery.

What is Microsoft first party delivering, that's the question (and holds true for any platform holder.)

Second party is usually reserved for companies like Rare during the Nintendo days, they made games nearly exclusively for Nintendo consoles, but they were not owned or contracted to do so. It was simply a close relationship. Most of Sony acquisitions tend to be of second party studios.

The Mario + Rabbids thing is a whole different story, as its a collaboration and a crossover of IPs owned by both sides.

Kena is only a timed exclusive, it might eventually go to other platforms.

Bayonetta 2 is a fun case. It was created and developed by Platinum, but IP is owned by Sega and the last few entries financed by Nintendo. I would not call it "second party" given how much work they do for anyone, but its not a first party game. In my eyes, its just a third party deal, where they put so much money down (full financing) they get permanent exclusivity.

Crossfire X is sure something... but similarly to Bayonetta, its owned by Smilegate Entertainment, developed by Remedy, and financed by Microsoft, although that one might had been a timed exclusive, but just like Babylon's Fall, the game didn't live long enough to be ported.

BTW the more I google this the more I think I need to remove Nioh from the list because all copyright seem to belong to Koei Tecmo.

@themightyant oh one more thing, did you know that Hal Laboratory is not actgually owned by Nintendo, despite them making basically every Kirby, Mother and the first two Smash games?

The last two Metroid games (Dread and Samus Returns) were done by a third party. GameFreak, maker of every pokemon game, also is an independent company. Until two years ago, Next Level games was also an independent entity, was acquired in 2021 after almost two decades making Strikers and Luigi Mansion games.

Part of how Nintendo manages to pull off such a high volume of first party titles is precisely due to smart usage of third and second party partnerships.

Edit (final edit I promise)
This is heavily a semantic argument but:
First Party Studio: studio owned by platform holder
First Party Game: game owned by platform holder
First Party Studio’s Game: game made by a studio owned by the platform holder.

@themightyant by this point this is an "old" article, and I doubt many are reading the comment chain here if not tagged, someone that drops will likely just jump to the end and post their thoughts without reading 147 messages.

One of the big reasons I find the definition of "first party" excluding anything with outsourced development is that, under that definition, Nintendo's output suddenly dries up drastically, yet it's being used all over the place as an example of the platform holder with the most first party offerings, again, precisely because they are very wise in their budgeting and resource allocation, and labor outsourcing.

By your definition, nothing Pokemon counts as first party, nor Smash, nor Mario Kart (another Namco labor collaboration) or Kirby, or Metroid (MercurySteam), or Advance Wars 1+2 (WayForward), basically, if your view of first party held up to what the community feels, Nintendo has barely any first party games. Their internal studios are some of the slowest game makers, with perhaps Monolith being one of the only efficient one delivering, in average, a title every other year (I count remasters and stand-alone DLC as delivering.)

I honestly dont think anyone goes hunting for involved develoment when determining if something is a first party game or not. For the most part they tend to just see if its owned by the platform holder. They dont care Oracle of Seasons is made by Capcom, it's a Nintendo First Party game.

For the most part, though, I also think the average user considers first party to mean exclusive, and without constant industry scrutiny, would assume Minecraft is third party.

I did a search the other day for the best xbox first party games, I know ScreenRant is not the most authoritative source, but it does shed light on the common perception of what is a first party game in this list of top 15 first party games. The list includes a lot of games you would not count as first party:
Crackdown 3
Quantum Break
Killer Instinct
Halo Wars 2
Gears Tactics

It also includes Sunset Overdrive, despite being actually fully owned by Sony even at the time of the article, but its a game you cant play anywhere else.

Deep Rock Galactic is also there, at the time it was a timed exclusive, no clue why they added that there. It was a 2 year exclusive, but I am sure there were better timed exclusives at the time. Hell, in the interest of padding I would had replaced that entry with Dead Rising 3, a lifetime third party exclusive. But its a good example of who it takes turning rocks left and right to end up qualifying a game as "first party exclusive" under your definition.

Personally, I don't count Bayonetta 2 a first party exclusive, but would not argue with someone that did, because the difference is minor, it's still a game one likely won't be able to play anywhere else.

At the same time, I would not argue with someone that didn't want to count Minecraft or MLB The Show as first party exclusive, because they can play those anywhere, so those are not platform selling points.

But I would politely argue if some dismissed Metroid Dread, Microsoft Flight Sim or Bloodborne as not being first party simply because they were outsourced.

Edit:
This exchange could had gone many different ways, I personally took it this path because for me the point of contention is that Xbox and its studios are sitting on their ass and not delivering anything, when they have been delivering quite a bit, be it by internal or external development.

I can totally understand if the point someone is coming from is basically the count of triple A exclusives delivered to Xbox users. Xbox is definitively lagging on the Triple A exclusive landscape, and while Sony don't deliver a ton of them every year, they sing up a lot of exclusivity deals to keep exclusives coming, while Xbox has instead opted to not pursue exclusives as of late, and focus instead on Game Pass day one deals resulting on Xbox not having a high volume of first or third party triple A exclusives in quite a few years. That quickly creates the "Xbox has no games" perception.

We should be getting STALKER 2 soon, a bit of an old deal by this point, so at least that's something as far as triple-A third party exclusives go.

@themightyant So I should had done this a few days ago but I got locked in on the whole conversation, so, I decided to involve a third party into this (pun intended). My partner happens to be an English major and a professional editor with decades of experience, so figured asking them about semantic discussions like this would be fruitful.

They are video-game casual (well not really that casual given their thousand of hours in games like Valheim) but they know enough of the industry.

Anyways, their take:

• Using an external vendor is virtually the same as using work for hire contractors or employees. If the situation is one of outsourcing, they would call it first party. This makes Mario Kart first party regardless it being developed by Namco.
• Licensing intellectual property to an external party, regardless restrictions (exclusivity) is plainly third party. This means Mario + Rabbids is such an example.
• A third party exclusive is just that, its still third party.

There is a place where things can get a bit murky but they feel even that murkiness is well defined: if a third party pitches a project, its picked up by a platform owner, and as part of the deal its also acquired (Ori is an example of this), they would still consider that a Third Party project. If Microsoft turned tomorrow, though, and decided to hire someone else than Moon Studios to make a third entry (now that they own the IP), that would be considered [by them] a first party project at that point.

The upcoming Contraband game was very likely pitched by Avalanche Studios to Xbox, so that is almost certainly 3rd party under that view.

A thing they clarified to me is that the term First Party is entirely made up. There is no such a thing as "first party", its normally simply called "party" or "involved party" with "third party" referring to someone not involved in the events/discussions/etc. Being practically a made-up term, it could be redefined as anything, and without an official industry standard dictionary of terms, and without deeper knowledge of industry contracts, it's practically up to the context of the conversation.

Until such an industry standard dictionary surfaces, I would personally still, for simplicity sake, consider anything owned by a platform holder to be First Party, but as stated, no one is "right" on this semantic discussion... well other than Sunset Overdrive definitively not being a first party game...

@themightyant

Whereas gamers do care when companies pay for something like Final Fantasy or Starfield, it takes it off the table when they were expecting to play it. That's NEVER a good feeling and understandably only creates bad blood.

Quoting this paragraph but this is mostly a reply to your second post in general:

Personally I want more exclusives, on every platform, but owned exclusives. I despise the concept of making third party exclusive deals. Like everything, there are always exceptions. If a game would have never been made at all without that financing, I would semi-grudgingly accept it (example Rise of the Tomb Rider, maybe[?] Final Fantasy Remake, Bayonetta 2). Sadly we are rarely told this by anyone, so we are always left out in the cold guessing/hating.

Anyways, within some limits, I am not against acquisitions and ownership. Some might claim I'm jumping through hoops to justify it, but when someone acquires a studio, they acquire all the responsibilities and risks. If Sony pays Square a few million to make Forespoken exclusive, and the game fails, Sony just loses a few million, nothing else. But the publisher risks a large financial loss should the title fail, to the point the studio might have to be shuttered (imagine you are reading this in the past before said studio was actually disassembled).

Now, you do mention Nintendo, and although they are a lot more conservative than others, they are not innocent. Monolith was an acquisition, and their only relationship with Nintendo came in the form of being the developer behind a Namco third party exclusive (Baten Kaitos). For all purposes, Nintendo deprived any other platform of ever being able to play future Xeno games.

Nintendo does have a very short list of acquisitions (that I could find on a quick google search), I think it comes down to Monolith and SRD Co., Ltd in Japan and Next Level Games in Canada. The last two (SRD and NLG) were always dedicated 2nd party developers anyways. Interesting trivia: Nintendo only owns two subsidiaries outside of Japan: Next Level Games in Canada and Retro Studios in Texas, US.

Nintendo has other acquisitions in their wiki but they are outside of the video game industry.

That was a bit of a tangent, but just wanted to clear they dent have their hands clean on the whole "take games away from others" via acquisitions thing. And they are as likely as Sony to negotiate a third party exclusivity deal too.

@themightyant Microsoft actually tends to allow all their subsidiaries work rather autonomously, outside setting some constrains, for instance, I believe that Mojang titles going to every possible platform is not “freedom” as much as a mandate, just as having to use Xbox Live Account integration on all platforms. I’m also sure no subsidiary can just go use AWS or Dropbox for cloud requirements.

But overall, MS rarely micro-manages any of their subsidiaries unless they feel things are going very wrong.

@themightyant expansion on my last reply (doing this from my phone now and harder to cover multiple points)

Went through your sources and none of those seem to address the point we are discussing. We are clear what is a first or third party studio, the argument is about what is a first party game, and that is not covered in any of those sources. Also, yea very much disagree in the take that Mojang isn’t first party because they make games for all platforms. Does that mean MLB The Show’s developer can no longer be seen as a First Party Studio because they develop the Show for all platforms?

@themightyant There is something about owned exclusives that I feel adds to the IP. Unless the games end up being an absolute failure, platform holders tend to value mascots a lot more than individual publishers, they tend to prop up their IPs a lot more as a result.

But on top of that, platforms need that differentiation in their catalog offerings. Ideally those differentiations should represent their identity. I don’t feel we need Xbox to have tons of cinematic adventure games, just as I don’t feel Nintendo needs them either.

As for Mojang, again, I really don’t think they are as autonomous as they seem, and I really don’t think they are the ones deciding what platforms their games are going to.

But only you believe there is a difference between a first party studio, a first party game, and a first party studios' game.

I highly doubt this is an “only me” thing. Again, ask anyone if they think Kirby, Smash or Mario Kart games are first party or not. I’m sure the majorly would say they are.

Addition: there are two/four (depends how you count) big platforms where you can’t play Minecraft Dungeons or Legends, and they seem to be platforms MS specifically has interest in avoiding:

Mac
Linux
iOS
Android

(And it has nothing to do with touch on mobile since game pass has touch controls.)

@themightyant selling units and how much you can charge, are publisher concern, and that’s Xbox Games Studios.

If the developer had all the freedom in the world, they would develop versions for all platforms, as they did with Bedrock, not just those that are not convenient for the publisher.

Mojangs independence is unlikely to be any greater than Zenimax. They get to decide what they work on (although honestly they just work on Bedrock, spin-offs are outsourced) but they still need to follow some rules.

Only studio, I think, Xbox mandates must work on X is 343 on Halo. Although dumped, we have heard The Coalition work on other side projects, and even PlayGround studios are not shackles to Forza Horizon.

@themightyant freedom manifests in many ways.

Honestly, I don’t think Mojang has the freedom to say “we want this project to be Xbox exclusive”, so long it has the Minecraft name on it, it has to be on PlayStation and Switch.

Similarly, Zenimax might not have the freedom to pick what platform their games go to, but other than that, they are more autonomous than any other Xbox studio. So long they stay within their budget, there is no mandate of what they must work on next. Microsoft won’t mandate them to do Fallout 5, or Wolfenstein 3, if they instead want to work on Elder Scrolls and Indiana Jones.

I doubt 343 will be allowed to work on anything that isn’t Halo, though. That’s what I mean by freedom.

Either way, just because Mojang gets to (or has to) make PS and Switch versions of their games does not make them any less “first party”.