Jim Ryan Argues Xbox Game Pass Model Would Lead To Weaker PlayStation Games

Psychonauts, Flight Sim and Forza Horizon 🤷🏼‍♂️

I agree with him especially with the budget they have plus the amount they spend on marketing etc if it was sustainable then I'm sure they would go all out to rival Microsoft, so why aren't they? Don't forget Microsoft have billions upon billions compared to Sony so they can cover any loses and even continue at a loss to lead the market whereas Sony can't

I think for lower budget AAA, AA and indie games then yeah it's profitable, or maybe that's just because they have their games on xbox whilst selling copies on playstation, but if these companies games are on both platforms subscription services then will it be profitable for them.

@Royalblues
@SacredPyro
You guys do understand that Sony doesn't have the cash backing that MS does? You understand that right?

@UltimateOtaku91
Totally agree each company has their own way of doing business and making the money.
Yes Microsoft can make a loss year in year out if they wish to gain market share in whatever they are after, as it confuses me what they are actually after as on this site they seem to think it is just gamepass numbers but I’m sure it is not.
They actually want to dominate the global game market not just in game pass, but also in console sales and Microsoft studio actual game sales that’s their heaven.
At the moment they are a million miles away with Nintendo and Sony leading the way, in time maybe but they need get the must have big AAA games out there to start that trend. Then become trendy again to have in the homes of the general public, children, teenagers, middle aged and older. I don’t think at the minute not one age group cries out for an Xbox as much as a PS5 or Switch.
They have a massive task ahead of them, to get people buzzed about the Xbox brand and I’ve said it before top end AAA must have games is the way to do it, that’s what will sell game pass and consoles etc.

Gamepass only works for MS because they can cover their losses(and it is helped by their owning a cloud platform).
Also Sony focus on more big budget single player games which don’t add up on a subscription as it’s a one and done deal not a service with revenue streams like Forza, Halo or Flight Sim.
That’s not to say either are wrong just both offer different things the plus is both are now sharing more of their back catalogue.

As a consumer I’m fine with it, gamepass covers so much for me already on Series X and I only buy exclusives for PS5.

As long as Sony keeps putting out great exclusives from a business perspective they should be fine not offering them day 1 with a subscription. Microsoft should also be fine going the other way. I see both being able to be successful with different strategy’s.

I've already posted elsewhere that he's talking nonsense. Gran Turismo 7 contains more aggressive microtransactions and a forced online for single player despite not launching onto a subscription service (and costing £70 to boot).
But then again Jim Ryan "believes in generations"... The man is clueless. As much as I love Sony, I really don't like their current management at all...

@Rural-Bandit
Don’t disagree with you at all.
It will interesting going forward, I just don’t want Microsoft to lower the standard of some of their past big AAA games just because they are on a subscription service game pass and available on day of release.
So far I’ve not seen much for me that shouts top end AAA apart from FH5 over all.
Let’s see if they come up with the goods, hopefully later this year with a Starfield that blows us all away and 2023 that does the same.
I’m very doubtful and cautious of Microsoft at the moment and it probably shows. They own so many studios and amazing franchises now I just don’t want them to lower the standard of some potential truly amazing big AAA game franchise.
Additionally posted on this site is many stories about some of their studios/game development going a bit wrong and if true shows their bad management skill set and approach.

I don’t think the problem is Gamepass I think it’s been a case of the Xbox division mishandling and mismanaging some of their studios, even way before Gamepass was a thing. I liked Halo infinite but just look at how 343 messed that up originally, it should never have been the case.

I think their games are getting better and they have Turn 10 and The Coalition who almost guarantee great games. Hopefully some of the acquired studios more recently can provide more. Things are looking up I feel.

@Royalblues It's not just Microsoft. Way back on the old PS1 they only later released the now famous "Dualshock" controller after Nintendo had a control stick beforehand embedded into their design. Online services the Dreamcast was well ahead.
The one area that PlayStation historically excelled at uniquely was having a cheap DVD and Blu-ray player packaged in with the console.

@Royalblues you do know playstation came out with a subscription service years before xbox, playstation planned and released a mid generation console up-grade (PS4 Pro) before xbox, xbox copied playstation 4's no online drm needed, xbox copied Nintendo Wii/playstation with kinect, xbox used a dvd drive after playstation.

Both of them are getting ideas from each other and nintendo, it's the same with every market be it cars, TV's, food chains etc it's what makes things better for us consumers

I think Xbox needs to prove Jim Ryan wrong and deliver better exclusive content and drop it to Gamepass. I mean, this year seems like one long wait for Starfield on the Xbox exclusive side of things.

@Fenbops
You have the same concerns as me and a few others on here.
They need to prove they can bang out the big AAA quality games for some of their franchises and manage their studios and games development.
More than just Forza and Gears.
There has been a lot of negative threads about that so far this year on here and with just Starfield November 2022 I’m not that optimistic.

@somnambulance
Totally agree, but they have a long way to go to match Sony and no where near Nintendo on big AAA buzz must have exclusives quality and releases over the past 5 years.
Game pass has had a good start but to get real big sales and a big buzz they need wow exclusive games that the general public talk about and say you must buy an Xbox or game pass these exclusives are amazing to play. This was the Xbox360 glory days in the UK when people shout I have Xbox look at my games. Me must buy one of these.
They didn’t have game pass then just lots of amazing big AAA exclusives and new IP. Hope Microsoft understand that, learn from history.

Of course with that many studio's making games and only 2m PS Now subs, its not 'economical' for Sony to go ALL in yet, they need a LOT more subs to offset that very lucrative and extremely premium price tag they charge and that price doesn't drop so any sales are max profits. They want to be 'best selling', #1 selling games too and giving them away day 1 won't help their sales figures...

MS are more concerned about Player numbers and player subscribers, keeping the 'console' as part of a family of devices on which their 'software' has reached....

That's pretty much the same as Windows, available on MANY devices inc MS Surface - look at the reach of MS Software, and now their Games are reaching 20m in weeks compared to 4-5 million in its lifetime...

And as for quality, the only MS owned developers release to score less than 80 metacritic of late was Ghostwire: Tokyo, a niche and obviously divisive game that's on PS5 and PC - but everything else scored highly and most were built with Game Pass money contributing to their cost. Game Pass has been around a few years now and ever since 2018's SoT, every game has been 'free' and studio's when bought know their games will be on Game Pass...

@Dezzy70 Star Field needs to hit. No ***** just a top triple A game people will love and play for hours of very high quality. It’s Bethesda though so it’ll probably be a buggy mess at launch 🤣

@UltimateOtaku91 ok hold up. there is so much misinformation in this.

for staters, no! no playstation did NOT come with a sub service before anyone else! If you're thinking FF XI, that was square.
xbox started doing xbox live in late 2002 but sony themselves did not have a sub service. If we wanna talk firsts, that was nintendo with its satellite internet junk on famicom for business people. satellaview for the super famicom.

mid hardware refresh...no, sony did not plan one before microsoft you do understand it takes up around the entire hardware gen to pump out new hardware. both the pro and the one X would have started development within a year of the ps4 and X1's release. None of that is slapped together so quickly, it physically can't with all the hurdles. certainly not within a single year between their respective releases.

"xbox copied sony's no drm"
um.
what. no. what, huh. every single thing has a drm to it. its called the license. What microsoft did at the start of the launch was another layer but not something copied. what microsoft attempted to do was another method of circumventing piracy and secondhand games but it bucked the trend too hard an thus, backlash. necessary backlash. it was a little too far.
but to say they copied sony is outrageous. the disc IS the drm. buying something off the store throws the license onto the storage media. THAT is drm. Digital Rights management. License control for copyrighted material. :/
edit: DRM has existed before you or me. It was on movies, an whatnot, cassette tapes, you name it. Using it was accepting to adhere to it. Thus fakes was illegal and you breaking the DRM.
this means carts on things like the nes, master system, snes, genesis/megadrive, etc had DRM on it. the cart was the drm.

"xbox copied nintendo with kinect."
yes. yes they did. you forgot sony's PS move and eyetoy though. Man...those were terrible lol, those balls at the top got seriously laughed at xD.

"xbox used a dvd drive after playstation"
LOL WHAT? NO! XD
dvd drives was in use by the first xbox, the ps2, and the gamecube! gamecube used mini-dvds!
Sony first used bluray in their ps3 BECAUSE sony CREATED it.
in 2000, sony unveiled prototypes of it.
it became the newer standard as a matter of evolution for higher cheap storage medium. bluray wasn't all that cheap when it launched though as most people definitely knew back then. they still aren't all that cheap now! especially the drives.
nobody copied sony, they paid sony for rights to use it.

things definitely not as black an white as you think they seem to be.

@Royalblues it’s funny. DRM was the biggest issue when MS revealed the Xbox One and Sony completely capitalised on the controversy. Fast forward to year 2022 and here is GT7, with DRM implemented, you can’t play it offline and no one bats an eyelid 🤣🤣

@Rural-Bandit I’m aware of most of that, I have gamepass. I disagree though a lot of people buy both physical and digital copies of the game.

@Nalverus some good points there, when I mentioned sony had the first subscription service I meant as in gaming subscription service with playstation now and streaming a good 2-3 years before xbox. And by Dvd I was mainly referencing the PlayStation 2 which came out many years before the xbox original was even in development and I didn't know that about sony owning Blu Ray as its pretty much standard these days with all manufacturers.

I agree with the kinect/Move though, they flopped hard and even the move controllers had more of a use with the VR than the actual original use lol I think I used it once with that spell book game (forgot its name), I'm glad that phase of gaming has gone though, even with the wii it was awkward to play certain games such as xenoblade

@Royalblues uhhhh. I’d have to disagree with you.

They are trying to have their cake and eat it too.

Without day one titles, adoption will be as slow as it’s been so far for PSNow. They seem to think they can double dip, get their player base to buy titles and subscribe to a service that will get the same titles years later.

Without day one titles GP would be nothing.
Same foes for Netflix.
Disney kinda gets away with it with Disney+ not putting all their movies on the service the same day they hit theaters, but they still have D+ exclusive day one content in the form of TV series.

Key is the service will need at least some day one content you get on their competitor service or they won’t get anywhere.

I have never replayed a PS exclusive other than remasters. I usually beat them in a week and never touch them again. I replay my Xbox Exclusive all the time. The Gamepass model will not work for them because there are huge gaps between big AAA titles. Once MS gets going in the next 2-3 years with all these new developers it will be big titles once a month.

Of course he would say that, he’s a slimy salesman, and knows full well Sony cannot afford to put their games day and date on their service, so he’s just selling you what they ‘can’ afford to do and belittle the competition which is better value.

Duh. Anyone who expects Big budget games day 1... lol.

I think folks are looking at his words the wrong way. He isn't saying Xbox games are not as good because they are on a subscription service day one. He is saying it simply doesn't work for the way Playstation is set up. Xbox has gone all in on Game Pass and that is primarily why they have acquired so many studios lately. To feed the beast on a regular basis with games.

Playstation doesn't have the amount of studios required to feed their service on a regular basis so instead of doing that and cracking the whip on the studios they do have in order to have something out on a regular schedule, he instead is allowing his studios to take their time and focus solely on the best quality content whenever it's ready.

It's just a different perspective on running a business. Chill out people.

@Royalblues Halo Infinite is weaker than Halo 5 in some ways (content and graphics). Gears 5 is worse on mtx than Gears 4. The rest of the games are small low budget games. Forza Horizon 5 is the exception, but does it cost that much to make it since they made horizon 4?

We'll the see the proof in 1-2 years. Right now, I'm waiting for Starfield.

@SacredPYRO

Psychonauts is on ps4 so it sold its copies and it's now huge budget games. Flight sim the same with PC.

FH5 is great. The exception but I'm skeptical since that's a sim racer.

Just so we're all clear...GT7 is not part off any subscription service and was full price+ greatness tax....
I think that's enough said right there no?

@Krzzystuff That's the whole point. GT7 should have been a single player first, then a GaaS afterwards.

It would also have been worst and wouldn't have reverted if it was on a service.

It's a good game, it just has that GaaS holding it back. Hope it's not foreshadowing the upcoming ones.

@RevGaming they chasing that cash bit it seems like they are doing it purely on stats and no to considering people's reactions. I'd imagine that they will learn from this and tweak the MTXs in GT7 and future GAAS titles but it seems like they are just tarnishing everything that people applauded them for in the past. It's not a law that they have to take turns each gen being the bad ones is it?

Ps won't feel the crunch now with their new ( revamped ) service but as someone else said ,in a few years time when xbox aaa's are coming out monthly then chances are they will rethink Thier no day one thing ,like he said in the interview "The way our publishing model works right now" he don't say it won't happen .... It will be another upgraded service for extra money and before say no Sony wouldn't do that ...they make the ppl who have paid for their consoles to pay more in upgrading Thier games / ppl have to sub to their service to play PS3 games even though ( like me ) they already own PS3 games on disc and digital , pay more to play games I've already paid for ? That's p*** taking

I expect them to make more mtx single player games( like gt7) and THEN do a day one service but just for the ones they earn mtx money from

Im loving gamepass but to a degree he has a point. The last of us, Spiderman, HZD, Dreams, Detroit become human and Ghost of Tsushima all blew me away. I haven't had that feeling other than FH5 on the Xbox. Let's see what happens later in the year.

I actually bought GT7 and it's fundamentally great. The driving is fantastic. However the graphics look a bit weird imo and too clinical, the grind is ridiculous and there are other glaring issues. Destruction Allstars is also a terrible game. Sony need to stay away from live service. Stick to what you know son.

@Krzzystuff They already reverted the patch and gave everyone 1 million credits (that's enough for a very high end car).

What turns? PS1-PS2, PS4-PS5 have been great.

Even PS3 in the end had a better variety of games, even though they lost money during that gen.

and I only consider xbox one being the bad gen from xbox. Xbox series is doing better (because of spending power basically).

@Royalblues Exactly. At the end of 2023, there should be enough games released and gameplay shown for their upcoming games. By november 2023 I think I can be sure who kept their promise.

To be fair. Phil never makes emphasis on lets make our own games the best they can be. True next gen or something similar that says we're in it to win it.

It's mostly gamepass talk, creators and making games accessible. It just doesn't scream confidence.

I want to hear "fable, hellblade, avowed will be THE games that will be the top of the food chain when it comes to next generation games". I mean look at the AAAA studio that needs help from another studio. It's fine if they take their time, but I want to hear "Starfield will be the biggest Single Player we have released by a milestone".

You get my point lol.

Weaker? BS.

What Sony is really saying....

"We want to maintain our profit margins, therefore we are just going to repackage our online services and milk d**b a** fans who can't see through our blatant marketing exercise. And for those smart enough to figure it out, we will just force you to buy our first party games still so that we can even increase our profit margins".

@Royalblues I think "weaker" is the wrong word, but there is currently a difference in their main business models.

Most Xbox Game Studios game release with a live service element, MTX and often add-on packs. Last year for example Halo: Infinite, Forza Horizon 5 and Microsoft Flight Sim all launched as live services with MTX or add-ons. Whereas most PS Studios games don't and also regularly have astronomical budgets. GT7 and MLB are the major exceptions.

To be clear I'm not saying one business model is right or one is wrong they're just different approaches, both are viable. But I think what he's suggesting (rather poorly) is that spending around 200+ million on game development & advertising REGULARLY, not just occasionally, they don't think is sustainable without including live service + MTX etc. It is not a business model they want to risk. They will have looked into it.

It's also harder when you are in a position of control, as they currently are, to take bigger risks in case you ruin a good thing and the whole tower tumbles down. When you are behind, as Microsoft were, it's much easier to take risks.

The trouble for Sony is when they want both to sell a game at £70 and have MTX like GT7. That isn't right imho.

He's also said that this is their short-term decision and who knows how things will be in years to come as the industry moves so fast

I'd say that if Sony can start making more GaaS releases (a big part of the reason why they bought Bungie) and if they have success in that area. Those GaaS titles will fund their big tentpole SP games and allow them to include them Day 1 into their subscription

They can't do it at the minute due to the $$$ they pump into their big titles but in 5 years time, i can see them getting closer to what GPU is

@VOODOO85 Agreed. That's a sensible take. Right now I think this is the right call for Sony, but things change with time. In 3-5 years it may be different. Though of course they could be bolder, they have a lot more to lose than Microsoft.

@Royalblues Are you saying MS are wanting to make cars? Now that would be terrifying!

Think its not really rocket science. MS releasing day 1 is sustainable for them so they do it. Sony realising day 1 isn't so they don't. PS owners state its not sustainable without infinite funds, Xbox owners state it is.

I do sort of expect the quality to go down if the aim becomes quantity over quality which most of these subscription services end up doing. Thinking Netflix and Prime where there is a lot of content but not too much quality for their own content. I guess time will tell on the gaming future if that happens.

@Nalverus Why are you laughing at me?

In many ways he is right. Microsoft is seeking ways to maintain engagement and that all important monthly sub and games like Forza Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite have slid further into F2P mechanics, 'seasons', playlist rotations and a grind to keep the interest of the player over the long-term. Rare's Everwilds originally sounded great but it looks like its going for the Sea of Thieves Template and I genuinely fear for what Playground will do with Fable.

But this is the current state of play. Microsoft have been buying up studios to build specifically story-driven single player games because this was Sony's key strength during the PS4-era. On the other hand Sony want more service-style titles and have been closing the studios that built their more unique titles (eg Studio Japan)

@Dezzy70 I agree. OG Xbox and 360 had a unique feel and ecosystem to the consoles that differentiated itself from Sony and Nintendo, and I feel like Xbox keeps promising they’ll be going back to that, but then year after year, we get a barren exclusive release schedule. The Xbox One generation was essentially air, and I feel like Gamepass has been the sole focus this generation rather than new games actually releasing. I feel like Gamepass is compensating for actual new releases. It’s a shame. Xbox has such good hardware and systems in place, but they are trailing on exclusives. I’m hoping Sony doesn’t get in a Gamepass groove and compromise their exclusive content to follow the rabbit.

They simply need to make a profit, or there is no buisness and no future games.
MS have never made a profit in the games buisness ever. If any other company involved itself in that buisness model, they would fail.
Theres no BS here, Sony is addmitting they cannot afford to match MS in the give away game. As long as they keep up the 1st party hits, their buisness model works, and invites investment for the future. As multiplat gamer, that pleases me as I value that output.

The key for me is Jim Ryan said things could change.

I expect the long term template to be the big blockbuster linear story games will remain out of the service until sales dry up (aka Returnal) and the live service games they have in development such as Fractions 2 could hit the service day one to drive engagement and they can feed on the MTX element combined with subscription growth.

Translation - we are unwilling to take a % profit hit, so would instead reduce the funding the games receive.

@HungryHungryHomer
And why shoud I care? If Sony is offering something for 13,99€ per month and Microsoft is offering something better for 13,99€ I would obviously go with Game Pass.

If Sony if offering ***** service then GP, without day-one first party games, they should charge less for their service. If not I will compare them equally, because they cost same money.

Also, Ryan's ***** are just that. *****. Last year Microsoft was highest rated publisher on Metacritic while releasing all their first-party games in GP. Meanwhile, Sony charged 80€ for Returnal and Ratchet and can't beat Microsoft. So what does it tells you?

@Royalblues holy $%^&! Thats probably even more terrifying!! expect Sony Cars to just start randomly drifting! Hopefully an early leaked April fools joke!

I think the proof of whether or not Ryan is right will be when Xbox eventually makes a game similar to the AAA+ games that can be found on the PlayStation.

In my opinion, the following games would constitute AAA+ on the PlayStation:

1. Horizon Zero Dawn
2. God Of War
3. Ghost Of Tsushima
4. The Last Of Us Part 2
5. Days Gone
6. Death Stranding

That's 6 games from the PlayStation 4 era the comparable likes of which cannot be found on the Xbox. To my mind, these are the only 6 games over the 7 year generation of the PS4 that could be thought of as AAA+. In that time Xbox brought out a number of AAA games, the likes of which cannot be found on the PlayStation (games such as Gears 4 and 5 for example), but Xbox has not, as yet, produced those big AAA+ narrative driven games that can be found on the PlayStation, however, with all the new studios acquired by Xbox, there is now the possibility that we may indeed see such games produced and appear on day of release on the Game Pass.

Just to be clear, I own both a PS5 and a Xbox Series X, but the XSX is my main console. I owned a PS4 for the entire generation without upgrading it to the PS4 Pro (unlike the Xbox, which I upgraded mid-generation to the Xbox One X) and I played a grand total of 11 games on my PS4 (including the above 6 games). I played my Xbox a ridiculous amount during that same period, and still do. So I am not trying to do down the Xbox, just saying that they make a different type of game, with a different type of quality. Indeed, I would argue that the Game Pass makes the Xbox essential to own, whereas without the Day One releases of the big AAA/AAA+ in house exclusives appearing Day One on the PlayStation Game Pass, I would say, the same cannot be argued.

Personally, I think that Sony has shown itself to be consumer unfriendly/greedy thus far this generation, and I think the decision not to include the big releases going straight into their Game Pass has more to do with that, than with the notion that it 'wouldn't work'. They are banking on people signing up to their Game Pass and buying the big exclusives in addition, however, I think that the majority will stick with the Essential tier (which you have to have if you wish to play online), rather than pay a premium for Premium without those exclusives being made available Day One...

Let me translate Ryan's words: "We don't have the funds, but I'm not allowed to call a spada a spade."

Lol Jim Ryan also believed in generations with all them PS5 only games. The man believes in the bottom line and will say anything at anytime to protect that. They will always say something that they don't have or do is because it's not the best.
They already said that the current fanbase is not enough, they are milking them for whatever they can as a result. $70 remakes of remakes, full priced games with MTXs that make mobile games blush and a premium tax for fun. Jimbo believes in that.

Explain how the top rated TV shows and even some movies are being published by streaming sites then? No, they want to milk that $70 price hike on their established base.

I'm so glad St. Jimbo is digging his heels in for the greater consumer good, and preventing offering too much value through his new premium fee services. The virtuosity of his cycle shall provide us with enduring high quality games, filled with virtue, and redeem us from the sorrow of unvirtuous incomplete releases filled with MTX because the games are "free" on the service like Microsoft's.

_{(because the incomplete MTX-riddled games cost a virtuous $70 instead.)}

“You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.”

I think Jimbo has been spending to much time reading asinine fanboy posts in the Playstation comments sections as they are the only ones who share his opinion and who don't see his statement for the poorly veiled garbage it is.

So glad we have Mr Spencer at the helm of Xbox and not this guy who seems determined on continued disrespect of their own customer base, even your most indoctrinated fanboys will eventually catch on and turn on you Jim time to turn things around and show some respect to your community

"He's doing things differently" yes he certainly is 🤕

Sony's greed won't let them go full Game Pass.

@lolwhatno ohiseewhatyoudidthere xD

Don't know if you can get much weaker than Gran Turismo 7...

@Nalverus I wasn't scared you wouldn't get it tbh, would've made me look like a dumba*s lol!

Omg PS has lost their sanity for once and for all, but we XB gamers don't care. By refusing to add day 1 1st party releases to their new upcoming service, it'll surely enrage the majority of ps gamers who is fed up of reasoning why they should pay full price for a PS exclusive and XB gamers get it at a mere $15pm subscription. What are they thinking, is this pure arrogance or ignorance or both?

@Microbius Absolutely spot n bro, agree 100%. PS has gone full blown insane, simple as that. PS games are already enraged cause they have to pay over the top prices for exclusive 1st party games and XB gamers get it at a mere monthly subscription, it makes no sense why they would want to continue on this road, other than being greedy. They are hell bent on shooting themselves in the foot, but it's pure arrogance simple as that. No other way to describe it, they have had it their own way for so long and boom, along comes Phil Spencer and chances the gaming world forever and these last greedy bastions of the gaming world at Sony PS, don't know how to deal with it omg.