The ongoing court battle between Epic Games and Apple Inc. has brought out an unlikely review from the Xbox Portfolio Team which was filed this past August, originally intended to remain as an internal Microsoft document.
The review is for Sony's The Last of Us 2, and it reads like any other review you might see in a magazine or on Pure Xbox / Push Square, giving an overview of how the game looks and plays. Ultimately, it's full of praise, with the portfolio team saying they "loved it, had a great time playing it, and find ourselves still thinking about it."
There is one line that is getting all the attention right now though, and it's this:
"Naughty Dog still can't seem to make decent gun combat in any of their games, and this one is no exception."
It's one bit of criticism in an otherwise highly positive review, then, and the team even goes on to say the gunplay "fits with the game's overall theme and pushes the player towards using stealth over head-on."
We don't know how the internal Xbox Portfolio Team works and who it's made up of, but obviously these aren't the thoughts of the likes of Phil Spencer and other execs! Still, this review is an interesting peek behind the curtain.
What do you make of Xbox's review of The Last of Us 2? Let us know down in the comments below.
[source courtlistener.com, via pushsquare.com]
Comments 40
I've played the game and can say the gunplay is absolutely fine, there's other areas they could of complained about though but strange they picked the gunplay 🤔
How dare they criticise a gameplay element of a transcendental masterpiece. The Citizen Kane of video games.
I found the gun play to be the least of the games problems.. of which their are many.
How’re these documents getting leaked? Especially when Microsoft is not even directly involved in the case.
This game was the reason I dropped the PS ecosystem and went all in on Xbox this gen. It was one of the worst games I ever played and destroyed a franchise for me.
Well, they aren't wrong.
Both in Uncharted and The Last of Us, the gunplay mechanics have always been the weakest link.
The other areas have been excellent though.
It's a typical short interactive movie that gets overhyped because it's a PlayStation Exclusive.
@GateCrasherUK have you played it?
The average time to beat is 24hours.....
Is that a short interactive movie?
I’ll post average time to beat Xbox exclusives to show how embarrassing your comment is if you like?
@The_New_Butler I am older so I actually played Superman 64 when it was new. I would rather play that again then this. You would think I was being overly dramatic but I am not.
Just because something makes sense in a video game doesn't mean that everyone is automatically going to like it. An example of this is Red Dead Redemption 2. In the game you can skin animals and sell their pelts but the process of doing that is completely different compared to the first game. First you have to be careful to not shoot and damage the skin of the animal when trying to kill it. Then you have to skin the animal and carry the pelt to your horse and you can only carry a certain amount at a time. Then you ride your horse into town and finally you can sell the pelt. In RDR1 you could just shoot an animal anywhere, skin it and whenever you were in town you could just sell all the ones you've accumulated in your invisible inventory.
This change in RDR2 makes sense in terms of realism. But that doesn't mean that I have to like this new approach. It's cumbersome and made me lose interest in the game. Just like how some people at Microsoft didn't like the gunplay of TLOU2 even though they understood the reasoning behind it as pointed out in this article.
Cue emotional responses from Playstation owners saying Xbox ( because they often speak of Xbox as if it's a single person) is just jealous, and the gun combat is perfect, etc.
Which will be amazing because many of them have been ripping this game to shreds since it released. This is going to be good.
Some people on here are absolutely clueless, saying its a short interactive game 😂 they have obviously never played it, its averaging 24 hours just to complete the main games and 29 hours with side quests, that's longer than the first 3 gears of war games combined 🙃
Sick of people bashing this games all because it won game of the year from nearly every site and its not on their system and then you have the butt hurt sony players who are sulking beacause a certain character dies and because of LGBT controversy. It has some of the best screen play and script of last generation.
Like I said there's a reason it won game of the year and has sold millions but I suppose people just like to complain and bash the success of games not on their system
@armondo36 or some of us are gamers that own all three consoles and don’t have to play favourites and can actually give a balanced view???!?
You’d be amazed how many people don’t just buy the one console and treat it like a war.
@Carck I'm not making up narratives, when this game released there was a lot of controversy surrounding its LGBT scenarios and Joel's death it got review bombed and the director got abuse becuase of it. And now people on here who never played the game saying its a short interactive game and it's developers are rubbish and wannabe Hollywood directors who want to create a movie? And you say I'm trying to start a flame-war
I'm throwing this in here, please keep these Community Rules in mind and think before you post! Disagreeing with someone is one thing, 'flaming' or 'trolling' them is another.
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Oh. Can't even list all of the games with which I have gun combat issues – let's jot down a few (that I, and I guess plenty more, like):
Half-Life, Resident Evil, GoldenEye … they are excellent games, but they have kinks I'd prefer ironed out. Still excellent though. No biggie… move on…
I played through TLoU1 and did find the gunplay/stealth rather underwhelming, but the story as we all know was excellent.
So with that, I simply watched a playthrough of TLoU2 on YouTube (from the comfort of the couch), sometimes skipping the combat as it did get pretty boring in some parts. Really enjoyed it more like that, over playing it.
Just my personal take, but I would agree the gunplay is easily the weakest part of the game, after both playing it, and just watching it.
I'm just happy to see Superman 64 get a shout out. What a game 😂
Less than decent shots fired.
I strongly disagree with their opinion, but then again, I'm sure these guys thought Crackdown 3 was A-ok, too, so their bad taste in games is at least consistent.
But certainly no harm for MS' image here with internal reviews praising the competition's games. I don't recall Phil commenting specifically on TLoU2 other than congratulating its success, but he's praised PS games directly, as a player, in the past as well.
I still have a lot of contempt for aspects of the review industry that seem to equate Hollywood as a golden grail of content, so the closer a game comes to looking like a Hollywood production, the "better" it must be. We see it again and again. Whatever game most closely replicates watching a movie is the game that gets every award the industry can dish out. ND stumbled into that as a winning formula years ago, and Sony at large has then attempted to replicate that winning formula endlessly. It's what's really turned me off from a lot of what they do. It's depressing to think so much of the market, and industry, have ensured that games can't become their own medium, at least in a popular format, they instead have been dragged into demonstrating that they can be movies, too, and their ability to emulate a movie experience is what makes them quality. For an industry of creatives, it demonstrates an incredible lack of imagination across the board. Kind of like modern Hollywood itself.
Games can be good and even great with parts of them not being great. 🤷♀️
@Xiovanni and? Doesn't the walking dead and game of thrones also have awkward scenes yet are classed as the best tv shows around?
Last gen was way better the ps3 gen for me, the ps4 and switch had some of the best games around period such of breath of the wild, the last of us 2, god of war, spiderman, horizon zero dawn, days gone, dreams, xenoblade chronicles 2, astral chain, splatoon 2. Then there's what third parties have released such as red dead redemption 2, hades, Ori, monster hunter world, nier replicant, persona 5.
@UltimateOtaku91 I think both WD and Got overstayed their welcome. I think WandaVision and Falcon and the Winter Soldier are better made.
I'm not sure how this relates to the wider conversation, I just wanted to note this.
Well there are not many games I complete that keep my attention and the drive to the finish.
All the Uncharted games have and both the last of us. So have all the gears of war games, and the newer tomb raider games.
Open world games I struggle to finish only two have achieved that BOTW and HZD.
So for me they are all amazing games in their own right and have kept me playing to the very end.
@Stocksy that is literally my point.
It's a fair criticism, but has never detracted from my personal enjoyment of any of their games. The same could be said for many of Rockstar's games, too, and they usually turn out rather well.
Having played all Uncharted and TLOU games on PS4, I must say they are not wrong.
ND games have never been that good in terms of gameplay. They have great visuals, gorgeous environments, good characters but they are nothing special in gameplay. People usually do not notice that because these games are filled with too many cutscenes. But this was more visible to me in TLOU 2 which was over 25 hours of boring repetitive gameplay (if you call it gameplay!!)
I see more than a few people argue that weak mechanics in one area of a game does not ruin the overall experience. I agree with that. I've enjoyed plenty of flawed games by managing to gloss over the crusty bits.
However, that does not mean those flaws can be as easily overlooked by everyone. And even if flawed mechanics can somehow be justified by in-game reasons (i.e. the characters are ordinary people so of course the gunplay is wonky, or something something realism) that doesn't excuse the fact that it's there like that.
If a game has gunplay. The guns should feel good regardless of how much time is actually spent shooting. Same thing goes for platforming, driving, etc. If the mechanics exist in the game, it should be good. Not good within the context of the story, just good. You can make a combat sequence feel desperate in addition to making the shooting smooth and intuitive.
I feel like gaming more than any other medium has its audience defending a work's flaws instead of taking into account criticism. At best we get 'well, the flaws add to the charm!' with me facepalming right after.
Well, they're not wrong... lmao
@Richnj
I thought it was Schindler's List, no? 😏
@gingataisen As Pam from the office They're the same movie.
@UltimateOtaku91
"...it won game of the year from nearly every site..."
"...because of LGBT controversy."
Well there you go. 😂
Jeez this opened up a can of worms!
How dare anyone say anything negative about a Sony game? Well, I do, too. I don't like Naughty Dog's games very much, gameplay usually sucks but the graphics and voice acting are great. Good films, mediocre games.
@KonstantTrouble hyperbole much?
A perfect example of what a negative world gaming can be at times. Taking small things, often out of context, to try and score points.
The Xbox teams TLOU2 review was glowing, overwhelmingly positive, even reverent. Yet what is being discussed is one of the minor negative points that even the review suggests is deliberate "to fit in with the games overall theme and pushing the player towards using stealth over head-on".
You simply aren't meant to be a head-shottin' spec ops warrior, focusing on this is like asking why Resident Evil doesn't play like Destiny... madness!
As this is a rare glimpse behind the curtain i'd far rather have seen the focus be on the praise and how this internal Xbox review is suggesting that Microsoft should diversify their type of games with lines like this on player agency "We would argue that not every game must be about the player roleplaying their characters story. The medium of interactive entertainment also needs games that drive stories where you are participating more in the capacity of an active 'observer', just like other mediums of entertainment, otherwise we're going to be locked into a limited number of stories to tell."
& "TLOU2 is the exceedingly rare video game where what it accomplishes in moving forward the art of narrative storytelling in video games as a medium ultimately outweighs whether or not everyone 'likes' it or even has 'fun' playing it" etc. etc.
@FraserG a Soapbox suggestion "Do you want MS to make more scripted and narrative focused games like TLOU2?" using some of the internal feedback here as a reference.
What mightyant said this was an interesting review which was rather positive as well with only the one negative which they even turn into positive.
To me if Xbox takes this feedback on board for these internal reviews, what does that mean to a Perfect Dark in terms of VO, Graphics, Story etc but improve on where they feel TLoU is weak with fantastic gunplay then to me, that's good.
Overall better games from all companies is only a good thing.
Still haven't played this game because I never bought a PS4. I may try it on PS Now if it becomes available, though.
I enjoyed the combat personally. The actual gun combat is pretty standard but the enemy ai (against humans) is incredible as is the kill animations and general vibe. Few games feel as visceral. If it was a Gears type combat focused game it would be a bit too generic but wrapped up in a action adventure/horror game like TLOU it does what it needs to do.
@themightyant Good shout! Leave it with me and I'll see if I can rustle something up if there's time this week
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