Devil May Cry 5 Special Edition Won't Feature Ray Tracing On Xbox Series S

I wonder if this will be repeated on many other games on Series S. I have XSX coming on 10th but this is not good news in terms of parity versus XSX excluding 4K and higher textures. I would have expected ray tracing on S but toned down.

Honestly DMC 5 runs at 120fps on Series S is already pretty good. It's somewhat stupid from microsoft side advertising raytracing support on Series S while most(if not all) 3rd party developers will put all that power to the performance and not giving a damn about raytracing on Series S' games. 1st party side, minecraft most likely will have raytracing on Series S but i really doubt other titles with demanding graphics like Hellblade 2 will do the same. Glad to be proven wrong though.

@Xiovanni All those “lower common denominator” talk but still DMC5 runs at 1080p60fps on PS5 500$, much value indeed. Games will still look and play best on PC in years to come, because of graphics “scalability”.

I'm still more concerned that Capcom wants to sell me DMCV again at all....

@Xiovanni If the Series S is compromising a game's art direction, it's going to compromise it for Playstation and PC as well. Which shouldn't be a problem, because it makes no sense that a video card that doesn't support RT would affect a game's overall design.

@Medic_Alert I was talking about the “lower common denominator” crap.

@Medic_Alert Raytracing is a very demanding technologie it affects alot the resolution if the ps5 and XSX using RT mode will make the game playable at 1080p 60fps then the XSS will be around 480p and also it depends in the way they use it if it is only for reflection or is it also for lighting this is why watch dog legion was able to make RT in XSS as well being a 30fps game makes it alot easier to do than in 60fps

@AJDarkstar Raytracing is a very demanding technologie it affects alot the resolution if the ps5 and XSX using RT mode will make the game playable at 1080p 60fps then the XSS will be around 480p and also it depends in the way they use it if it is only for reflection or is it also for lighting this is why watch dog legion was able to make RT in XSS as well being a 30fps game makes it alot easier to do than in 60fps

@Medic_Alert Sega games usually not are not that good at optimisation and so is bethesda besides xbox has almost non existante market share in japan why will devs give their best shots when they know sales won't be high for xbox version of the game MS isn't lying XSS can do Raytracing but it will be limited compared to XSX it only has 4Tflop of power where the 12Tflop will only be able to do demanding games at 1080p or maybe 1440p 30fps, watch dogs will have raytracing in XSS and is most likely so much easier to do cause it's a 30fps game

@AJDarkstar See that's the thing. What if Capcom had said it had Raytracing, but was only 60 fps? Would people still be saying "oh wow the S is so underpowered" camp. Regardless of whether it is or isn't the case, people always look more towards the visuals specs as a way of demonstrating a system's capabilities. It's the reason Ubisoft prefers doing 30fps, to take the visuals high as they can go. It's what people remember, not 120 fps usually.

Take Yakuza Like a Dragon, if there wasn't a 'Performance mode" on the S, so the specs was just 2k/30fps, would the outcry be as vocal? Doubtful. But hearing 900p is off putting period, Even if a game managed 120fps, at 900p people aren't going to be pleased.

The point is that frame rates are something that most people only care about in context and principle, but seldom else. As such I don't know why there seems to be this push right now for 120fps, when cutting other features.

Is that what happened in this case? It hardly matters. Like you've suggested elsewhere it’s a wait and see approach right now.

@Medic_Alert I really hope that it doesn’t run better on the PS5 compared to the Series X because yeah they spent money for that. Literally, I don’t think the next gen version would exist without MS paying for it. That would be terrible >.<

Hmm...After missing out on the X and being convinced to go with S due to the "it'll do the same as the X just in 1440p instead of 4k" reasoning and explanation from MS, I think my initial concerns were justified. The 'bells and whistles' are what I don't want to miss out on next gen and wasn't bothered by the 'no 4k' option as playing on an old school HDTV.
Glad I didn't go with the S now as this seems to indicate that its not only the resolution that will be different between the two.

I understand fans saying it CAN do ray tracing and the devs just haven't bothered but thats not really a solution.

@Medic_Alert yeah I hope it stays a rumor because that’s like the worse thing to do in a business setting. I think you like giving me nightmares

That said I think they should have ditched the “performance mode” on the S and the “high frame rate” on the X (it’s huts 60 most of the time with 2k). I think having an 2k30 on JRPG; no one would question it. Literally it’s turned based JRPG. But of course 900p will get people rolling. sighs optics ._.

Well the Series S is for those less concerned about graphics and visual quality...

@BAMozzy well yes. The problem is that system is literally advertised as being able to use raytracing. It’s terrible look if one version has it and the other doesn’t when it’s an advertised feature. But yes that’s not what the system is for, full agree.

@AJDarkstar I wasn’t talking about tech specs though. I was speaking towards your comment about visuals. Agreeing with you, mostly, in the sense that I think a lot people pay more attention to visuals. We shall see if that matters in the long run or not.

@mousieone I think it's laughable that we're arguing about framerate performance modes in a turn-based JRPG while Switch is thriving with "classic" pixel-style JRPGs that switch to a static battle screen..... I think it was a mistake for Sega to even bother with "Performance" for that game at all. It wasn't meant for that.

What they should be more ashamed of is they have a "next gen" game that looks decidedly "last gen" that brings even high end PCs to its knees if you try to max it.....

As for if it runs better on PS5 than X...that would be awkward. It depends what their bottlenecks are. I don't think they're using the full capacity of the "big" GPUs, that's for sure (the PC performance proves that.) So it may "accidentally" just get a boost from the higher clocks by chance. Or storage access is the issue. Or they rushed the XB version out the door because they had to and just have unlimited time to do the PS version.

@Kefka2589 the S is still a great value though. It’s just what it’s meant for in comparison, and also what it can be capable of. Right now a lot of games are getting “patches”, but they are still designed at their core to run on other systems. Few people have had their hands on the news systems long enough to really push them.

@NEStalgia that’s kind of what I’ve trying say. If the S version of Y7 was 2k30 everyone would be fine. It’s a turned based JRPG, it’s what is expected. 900p60 is not only pointless, I get the mini games, but o.O it’s almost useless.

Personally I am concerned the extra time will have Sega going back to make changes, and in doing so running better on the PS5. :/

@mousieone I have no doubt that the Series S can do hardware Accelerated Raytracing. However, there isn't a one for all application of RT with different methods - not all hardware accelerated either and different uses - global illumination, reflections etc.

As we have seen, software too can do RT (Crysis uses Software based RT reflections, Gears 5 uses Software based Global Illumination..) and I don't know what method DMC5 is using. I am sure its also using a mix of SSR and RT for its reflections but whether they are on software or using Hardware Acceleration, I don't know.

Point is, the fact that 1 game developer has opted not to include RT for the very much weaker, slower console with much less RAM too is not indicative of the fact that NO games will ship with RT on the Series S. The Series S is able to do RT but if Series X/PS5 are limited to 1080/60 with RT on then how do you expect something like a Series S to do it? Not without dropping to 720p (or lower) I think maybe they could of offered a 1080/30 option but you have a 66% reduction in computational power - significantly less shaders and fewer cycles too. Its like having a lot less artists and those artists working slower to draw each frame - its not like you can allocate a third of your work force to calculate RT and still have a LARGE workforce to do the traditional rendering. Its got half the workforce of am Xbox One X - albeit working faster, more efficiently etc but you still have far fewer shaders - just a few more than a Base PS4 that are doing nearly 2x the amount of work per second.

The Series S is designed to scale down the visuals - not just resolution but the visuals. It still has a very capable CPU to run next gen games at high frame rates but the GPU is designed for scaled down 'graphics'.

RT is a graphical effect, like draw distance, shadow quality, resolution etc Its NOT just a drop in resolution that devs may have to scale down, its also texture quality (less RAM), and 4k is 2.2x the size of 1440p so other settings will need to be 'turned down' a bit to hit that resolution as there is a 3x difference between GPU's.

As I said, its for those who aren't as interested in 'graphics' (of which RT is a part of) and for those more interested in just game-play on a 'budget'. Its not stopping you from playing the game at higher frame rates...

@BAMozzy I was actually referring to how it looks to overall consumer, not if it can or can’t etc. That much I’m not speaking to. As I said I fully agree with you; the S has a specific purpose.

But what you personally understand and what Joe somebody on the Street sees are two totally different angles. Mr. Somebody sees a feature being advertised and then sees it not being offered. As I said Not a good look.

I mean it’s not like you, Bam, can be at every store to explain graphical features to these consumers.

It’s the same reason I would have skipped with a performance mode for Yakuza 7. There is an over all look to people.

It’s that “this will hold next gen” bad thought process. Of course when it doesn’t it’s “not next gen”. Narratives can be troubling.

Again if you clone yourself we can position one of your clones in all the retains stores? Kidding

@mousieone I do agree too - some of that should be handled by the marketing team and also by the individual developers/publishers of games too.

With Yakuza, you can't really look at games like that in 'isolation' as in just the Series S/X figures bit the way these games run on every platform. If you have some idea on the hardware needed to achieve 1440/30 or 1440/60 or have some idea on the performance on older gen, you can gauge whether the 'hardware' is underperforming or whether the game is just 'difficult' to run on any hardware.

It amazes me that people look at Yakuza and the metrics in isolation and decide the Hardware is the problem. On PS4 Pro, a 4.2TF console, it runs (not consistently) at 1080/30 and on XB1X, its also 1080/30 so the Series S at 1440/30 is a massive boost over current gen. Current gen has no 60fps mode so can't look at that...

Just look at what these games run like on the current gen, maybe even look at the PS4 Pro (5.5GB RAM for Games and more TF from 36 cores - that's a LOT more shaders). The Series S has 2 more cores than a Base PS4, but runs nearly twice as fast meaning it has nearly twice as many cycles per frame to complete nearly twice as many instructions per shader, per frame. Its got half the shaders as an XB1X yet will outperform it on some games for about the same cost...

@mousieone well, if the bottlenecks on the y7 engine are related to memory bandwidth, ps5 will let them optimize easier. If it's related to gpu clock, rather than cores, same. But otherwise if it's just general inefficiency, any improvements they make on the way to ps5 may be systemic, and thus port to a patch on xb as well. It really depends on what's the bottlenecks.

@Xiovanni ms has said the policy is lead with the X, and cut to fit S. Games are made for the X only, and then scaled aa needed on S. I'm not worried about first party in that regard. It's the multiplats that could have issues with handling the workflow.

As long as it's not 343 were talking about it should be fine... They can't even hit crowd pleasing visuals on pc at the moment...

@Xiovanni Sony can have Flower 2.

Seriously though, if you mean arthouse indies, you may be right. But anything bigger budget can't really afford to ignore a big market just because some pretentious art director doesn't approve of the equipment his art will be viewed on. They better swing a wide berth away from pc in that case, too. Their art will be too important for mere gaming laptops from 2018 to defile!

@mousieone @Kefka2589 If they polish the PS5 version, the Series X/S versions will be polished too via patch. Capcom is just scratching the surface of what the new consoles can do and Sega hasn't even tried. No point in judging Series S by these examples but you're right to be disappointed with Capcom and Sega but not with Series S yet.

Both Series X and S are great value but cross-gen games are going to be somewhat disappointing. The possibility of playing current-gen consoles running and looking better is the biggest appeal at the moment.

@BlueOcean not disappointed with the S. I mean Gears 5 running on is prof of that. Just yet. I’m just annoyed with the narrative. Although at least Capcom admitted they need more time. And look at the coming Monster Hunter Rise for Switch. Given time, I think Capcom will figure it out.

@Kefka2589 I don't think that developers will avoid optimising games for Series S because that is an easy thing to do but that some developers like Sega haven't worked hard on their first next-gen releases (or first cross-gen games). That Sega game is not impressive on Series X either and Capcom just slightly updated DMC5 for the new consoles.

My point is that these games don't tell us anything. We know the Series S specifications and it's certainly capable of doing the same as Series X at 1080p-1440p but first cross-gen games aren't the paradigm. You can get them if you think you'll enjoy them but don't expect them to show you what the console is able to do. There will be exceptions, Gears 5 seems to be a remaster and Sea of Thieves at 60fps will be impressive, I believe it's the most beautiful game of the current generation and it runs at 30fps on Xbox One X.

@Kefka2589 Of course, it's perfectly reasonable to share your concerns, I just read your comments and @mousieone's and I wanted to reply because we're talking about cross-gen games that aren't optimised for Series S nor Series X. I remember Assassin's Creed IV was 900p 30fps on Xbox One.

@Kefka2589 I guess we'll have to wait and see. I think that Series S will be fine but I also think that it's worth paying 200 more for Series X.

@Kefka2589 Good idea. I think that Series X is awesome value considering all its power, SSD and disc drive. Series S might be better for casual players and people with low-end TVs.