Xbox boss Phil Spencer appeared on the latest episode of Animal Talking recently (you've probably heard about it by now), and gave his thoughts on a wide range of topics during the interview.
One of these was Xbox's player-centric focus heading into the next generation, and as part of this, Spencer talked a bit more about how the competition between Microsoft and Sony will be "fundamentally different" this time around, and won't act like a traditional console war:
"We want people to feel like they're a member of Xbox. And that membership in Xbox isn't about one device, it can be multiple devices.
I want to have a great experience on the television and I think Xbox Series X is absolutely going to deliver that and I'm incredibly excited by the lineup of games that we're building, but it is a fundamental difference than the traditional console war as people talk about.
'How many consoles do I sell versus how many consoles does another company sell' - Sony or Nintendo or other companies back in the day - we're just not...that's not our approach."
The Xbox boss went on to explain his reasoning, explaining that Xbox is focused on giving players choice in how they consume content, whether it's on a console, PC or via Project xCloud, as well as through services such as Xbox Game Pass. As a result, the sole focus isn't just on the Xbox Series X this time around:
If [the traditional console war] was our approach, we wouldn't put our games on PC, we wouldn't put our games on Xbox One, we wouldn't do xCloud and allow people to play games on their phones.
And I'm not disparaging someone else's approach, but when I talk to fans and customers, what I say is when you're a member of Xbox, we want to build the experience around you."
What are your thoughts on Spencer's comments? Let us know below.
[source youtu.be]
Comments 143
Good words that will get twisted with an unhealthy amount of sass over at Push Square.
I'm mainly a Nintendo fan, but good grief do I love Phil Spencer's attitude. He's the one guy making sure console wars are a thing of the past.
It's obvious that Xbox is not a console anymore and now it's going to be Series X, Series S, Game Pass, xCloud and PC. They have already won the current generation in subscriptions and some Xbox One games are on the charts years after launch in spite of Xbox One reduced market share.
"If [the traditional console war] was our approach, we wouldn't put our games on PC, we wouldn't put our games on Xbox One, we wouldn't do xCloud and allow people to play games on their phones".
That summarises everything.
I think it's great that Xbox has a clear focus and is trying to create something unique that it will be especially known for among gamers. The gaming industry is in need of innovation as technological advancements just won't offer any significant differences compared to previous generations. Companies need to find other ways to entice the average consumer to buy their products and Xbox is doing just that by offering their games through a service on numerous platforms besides their own.
I strongly believe this will be the future of gaming. It's hard to let go of past notions that have been rooted in our minds since we first started playing games, i.e. the thought that games need to be played on a console and that there are different consoles to choose from. Games shouldn't be restricted to one single platform and should instead be available to as many people as possible. That's why I believe in Phil Spencer's philosophy and I strongly believe he is paving the way for the future of gaming.
@Medic_Alert Yeah, I totally agree. People keep claiming Xbox has lost the console war and it's like who even cares when all these exclusives are FREE lol. Game Pass is like a life changer for me when I really think about it. Sure, Halo Infinite delay really sucks, but it's like, we'll be able to play that for free and never have to buy it with Game Pass. It's absolutely mindblowing. Really wish people would consider the value of the SX as well, like how it's most powerful console ever made, tons of optimized games new/old, and unlike other companies, all your old games and controllers work perfectly fine with it
The Console wars are over..
Nintendo has also exitted war because they only have a hybrid/handheld console now and they are not stepping into the next generation with a new console but with a current-gen one. Console wars only exist on PushSquare.
This is an interesting strategy but one that may pay off in the long run. Everyone says consoles are sold at a little/ no profit anyways.
Yeah, this seems like MS' stance. It makes sense given their pedigree as a software company, but I think Spencer needs to remind people because Xbox has been around for so long now.
Anyway, I think they are trying to compete with companies other than Sony.
I’m get that they’ve made it super easy to optimise Windows PC games to also run on Series X. Therefore they need lower numbers of console sales for it to be worth the developers time also release on Xbox.
Sony on the other hand have focused on time to triangle and making it easy to develop new games from scratch for their system.
Sony probably needs to shift around 80 million consoles over the PS5 lifetime in order to be profitable. That number will be lower for Xbox but it’s still probably around 20 million across the Series S/X if they want to remain relevant.
The majority of Xbox games will never be on Game Pass or X Cloud. Unless X Cloud also has a paying for individual games aspect like the Google streaming platform.
I understand the long term aim and objectives here, though the UK still sucks internet wise, I live in a big area still stuck on 6mb a second. They have been installing fibre for the last 8 years. Thats UK projects for you. But I will say one thing, the more consoles you sell the more join game pass the more relevant you become and the more revenue you get for studios and you sell more game’s and keep third parties interested. If you said to Phil you are gonna sell 100 million series s/x he would be smoking the cigar right now.
The traditional console war has finished with Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft each going separate ways...
I think it's been clear for quite a while on Microsoft's approach going forwards, still it's great to hear it clarified by Phil himself..
Personnally, when I tried to figure myself which system I was gonna buy for the next generation, I didn't asked myself "PS5 or XSX ?".
The question that came to my mind was in fact :
"PS5... or Gamepass ?"
Cause I've resisted the concept until now, so focused on my little collection of physical games and all. But the last Xbox showcase totally convinced me to subscribe. (So, for all the people who said that this event was a failure... turns out that it succeeded what it intended to do, for me.)
I can even tell you that they got me with very little things, like Dragon Quest XI S and Destiny 2. Cause I surely want to play thoses games, but I'm maybe not that ready to spend a lot of money on them. So ? I'll subscribe. That will give me instant access to a ton of very good games that I missed over the time, AND all the exclusives that are coming.
Buying an Xbox Series X is like... a "collateral damage", for me, so to speak. What drives me to stay with Microsoft first, for the next generation, is the gamepass. And to enjoy it as its best, I'll get an Xbox Series X.
That's how I want to play, now.
@Dezzy70 I agree, the more Series X sold the better but they're not focusing on that particular figure in pursuit of a milestone. That's why they're releasing software and subscriptions on several platforms including a second console that it's actually Series X competition hardware-wise.
War is over, the big 3 are playing 3 different games now. Sonys doing the traditional route, Nintendo continues to do their own thing and be their weird self, and MS doesn't care about boxes anymore, they just want you logging in with your MS account somewhere. All of which are great and IMO there's enough variety and room for them all to be successful!
It’s because of this approach that I’m buying a new Xbox since the 360.
@BlueOcean
I know and understand and glad you agree more sold the better it’s just economics.
Some people through totally dismiss this.
But game pass is amazing they just need some new big hitters in there and it looks like they are coming. Would be great if Ubisoft joined game pass, as like them for the new assassins creed and far cry 6.
@Medic_Alert a lot of gamers are just fanboys and fangirls, and they remember, or have heard stories about, a time when Nintendo and Sega had this great war. Now, i'm...older let's leave it at that lol, and i remember that. the thing is, the war existed because Sega and Nintendo were fighting over the same customers. There are FAR more gamers now, and Sony and Microsoft have different fanbases. Gaming has changed, but some people are slow lol
Translation: "Since we realized we'll never beat Sony at this game, we decided to make a buck via subscriptions. Now we can conveniently claim that console wars are beneath us."
Whether that model will pay out in the end or not remains to be seen. All in all, Game Pass is an excellent way to test a couple of games before buying them (unless you're one of those gamers who beat open world games within a week).
Oh and Phil, since it's not about selling more consoles, why haven't you already announced the price for the Series X? It's almost like you're wary of another console you're supposedly not competing with.
That’s the whole reason I’m even on purexbox recently. I have zero interest in buying an Xbox, but since Game Pass i am very interested in following news regarding it. So many Xbox news are actually of interest for me as a PC player now.
Phil is definitely right in that regard.
@Bmartin001 Tell that to twitter. It's intense in there
Let’s be honest, game pass is amazing and selling subscriptions is great. I have game pass. But selling consoles also counts and it sells more game pass and game’s and makes money in the grand scheme of things. It is connected in some way as one feeds the other.
I honestly love this new logic by Xbox. This is the future of gaming that has me the most excited between Sony and Microsoft. Not knocking those that love Sony though!
@Nickolaidas you're on the wrong site mate - you want pushsquare.com, that's where your fellow Sony fanboys hang out 👍
@Nickolaidas
Or it’s a great business model & only Sony fanboys, like you, are the ones complaining about it........for.......reasons?
And like someone else said.....you are on the wrong website. You don’t have anything better to do in your life than come to an Xbox site & troll?
Shouldn’t you be busy reading articles about how Bugsnax will change the industry? 😂
I love that Phil said this. I have no idea why people can’t seem to get this through their heads? And by people, I mean Sony fanboys, of course.
This is a great business model, in my opinion. But if people don’t like it, then go buy a PS5. Sony has some Spider-Man DLC coming out that they’ll sell you for $60. 😂
@KelticDevil My reasons are simple. I don't see this business model being sustainable, unless more and more games included within it become more and more AA oriented. I know that as a consumer Gamepass appears as a sweet gig (and it is in the short term), but it remains to be seen what consequences will it have to the quality of the titles.
We already got one game intended for Series X game shown and it looked like an X360 game on 4K. That is not encouraging - what happened to the 'X1 won't hold XSX back' narrative?
@Nickolaidas
And you know business better than experts at Microsoft? 😂
Why you Sony fanboys are always worried about Microsoft’s billions is beyond me. Or maybe you are jealous because PS Now is a garbage service in comparison?
@Nickolaidas Halo Infinite was an Xbox One/Xbox One X game and now it's a cross-gen game. The beta looked bad because of the lighting but once it launches you'll see how better it will look, at least on Series X. Every third-party game will look and perform better on Series X and the other Xbox Game Studios games like Hellblade 2, Everwild, Avowed, Fable, State of Decay 3, Forza, etc., aren't cross-gen so they'll look absolutely stunning, so no need to worry about Series X being held back by anything.
Sony didn't show the console and didn't reveal the specifications until Microsoft did and now Sony is waiting for Microsoft to reveal price first, too. If there's someone insecure about next generation, it's Sony, that is wasting money on third-party exclusive content, probably timed, according to leakers and doesn't take any step before Microsoft.
@KelticDevil The experts at Microsoft gave their billions to 343i and we got the Craig meme as a result. The console is supposedly released in three months and we haven't seen a SINGLE game running on the ACTUAL console, except for Minecraft and two last gen games.
As for the jealousy part, I'm not even going to bother since I have a powerful PC which can easily play any Series X game that comes out. Series X is obsolete - for me. Sure would like to play Infinite and not feel like I'm playing something on an emulator, though.
If your head too far up inside Spencer's ass and can't bother to get worried at what is going on, that's your right.
@Nickolaidas Have we seen any PS5 gameplay except for Ratchet & Clank that looked similar to the PS4 game? Have we seen Spider-Man standalone DLC gameplay? Gran Turismo gameplay? Horizon 2 gameplay?
@BlueOcean The lighting? Dear God, you actually fell for Digital Foundry's crap? You really think that Craig coming off as a hairless ape is a problem of a lack of Ray Tracing? There were pictures which compared Halo Reach to Infinite and Reach looked BETTER!
I was first in the row to applaud MS for delaying Infinite, because that game is a rushed mess and it shows. The mere fact that they were planning on releasing it and putting Ray Tracing in a patch shows how much barebones the game was.
But sure, as the guy above me said, MS are apparently geniuses who know best.
I don't get bothered with Sony buying off timed exclusive 3rd party deals as I wasn't annoyed when MS did it first with Tomb Raider 2 and the like. It's all in the game, and I get it. But neglecting the potential harm Gamepass may bring to the quality of MS 1st party games and deflecting with stupidity like 'Miles Morales being a DLC for $60' is not what an MS consumer should be doing.
@BlueOcean Ratchet & Clank gameplay was shown - did you miss that opening act where they were loading stages in 2 seconds each? Gran Turismo gameplay has been shown.
Horizon 2 and Spider-Man MM haven't shown actual gameplay, only in-engine cutscenes. There was a short GIF with MM web-swinging around Harlem, but that was it.
Haha , war is over and xbox is over too.
Strange theory will destroy xbox. Bye bye..
@Nickolaidas So your arguments against Series X are:
· Judging the most powerful next-gen console by a beta of a cross-gen game.
· "And Microsoft did worse in the past".
@Nickolaidas Yes I watched that 30 FPS demo that looked similar to the PS4 game and that loaded different areas of the same world with some stuttering.
@BlueOcean "The X1X won't hold Series X back."
Spencer's words, not mine.
I judged the quality of a company's 1st party titles by looking at gameplay for it's FLAGSHIP title from a build four months before the apparent release of the game.
When Sony and MS fans both criticized the Halo Infinite gameplay, MS appeared all cool and 'ha-ha Craig is our Mascot LOL, we're in the joke!', then poof! Game delayed. What, did they really think people would be satisfied with next-gen's most powerful console showing its flagship title looking like THAT? Were they serious?
And you watched the wrong video.
This is what I'm talking about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlQ8Xlyd480
And here's GT7 gameplay (at the latter half of the video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz-O74SmTSQ
Yes he said "Xbox One won't hold Series X back" and it's true. The only upcoming AAA cross-gen game is Halo Infinite. Other games that were supposed to be cross-gen like Everwild and Avowed have become Series X exclusives (they removed "Xbox One" from the game cards). Literally, Xbox One won't hold Series X back because there's only one AAA game that will be cross-gen and you are judging Series X by one game when you don't even know how the Series X version will look like and after the developer has said that it was an old beta that they prepared for E3 before the pandemic and after the developer has announced that they'll be polishing the game until 2021. It's just one game, anyway.
@BlueOcean Anything they show of Halo Infinite now is a product of the ***** storm the game got at their gameplay reveal.
But ask yourself why did they show an old build for a game that was supposedly coming in three months.
Anyway, I'm just glad the game will be more polished than it was intended to.
@Nickolaidas your wasting your time with butt hurt xbox fanboys tbh that's what 3 generations of losing a console war does and this trend will Continue.
And if by chance xbox win this gen then fair enough il say congratulations instead of coming up with excuses and If's and But's.
Let the final numbers do the talking and let the charts do the talking, as at the end of the day the game pass being better means nothing, xbox having slightly better graphics means nothing
Only the games and sales mean anything...
Wow Phil. Excuses already....
Il atleast be trying out the game pass out on my galaxy note20 though, atleast that's better than PS Now
@playstation_king "your wasting your time with butt hurt xbox fanboys tbh"
I think you are describing yourself there, just change "butt hurt xbox fanboys" for "playstation_king_fanboy" and voila.
It's good it's not their goal, because they're about to get slaughtered
@playstation_king To be frank, I couldn't care less for console sales. Gamepass nullifies the need to buy a Series X since it's also available on a multitude of devices, so they won't tell the whole story.
I just don't want MS 1st party games to end up looking like glorified mobile games after 4-5 years.
@BlueOcean I've been a playstation fan since the age of 9 and this was my user name as I created a push square account first, but I probably play the switch more than anything lately and agree with most people that the last of us 2 was S**T, I'm not what you call "fanboy". Just saying it as I see it.
@Nickolaidas I honestly don't care that much about Halo Infinite because I'm not a Halo fan but, obviously, it's right to delay and polish the game instead of releasing an unfinished product.
@Nickolaidas I agree in 2021 when gamepass gets xbox series X games there will be no reason to buy one. But surely these developers are losing out on money by going down this route?
@playstation_king Well, you obviously can't deal with comments that doesn't suit your narrative and instead of using arguments you just write rude remarks about anyone that isn't a sony_fanboy. I have a PS4, by the way.
@BlueOcean I really like Halo. I think it's the king of console first person shooters.
Infinite looking the way it did ... annoyed me.
Really anxious to see Avowed and Fable. Hope they end up amazing.
@Nickolaidas I'm not a Halo fan but I'm playing the MCC and will play 5 and Infinite. Halo Infinite gameplay looked a lot of fun, if they polish the graphics I'm sure that you'll love it. Note that is bigger than 4 and 5 combined, it looks like an open-world game at 60 FPS. Avowed and Fable are both on my radar.
@playstation_king That's what worries me. Greenberg already said that Gamepass (right NOW) is not really profitable.
https://mspoweruser.com/xbox-game-pass-not-a-big-profit-aaron-greenberg/
So how do they make it profitable?
A) Increase the amount of subscribers
B) Decrease the number of games included in the service
C) Decrease the budget (and quality) of their 1st party games
If A) end up not happening, what happens then?
@BlueOcean my comment was mainly aimed at Keltic tbh every article I read on here he comments something aimed at sony even if no one had mentioned sony yet lol so sorry I was fired up.
Let's face it both these new consoles have different strengths where the other has weaknesses. The main problem with xbox is because you botched last gen and the negative press you got from the "no used games" drama most players went over to playstation and will find it hard to win them back with a gamepass that has only last gen games until late 2021(or was that just on Xcloud?) . Xbox need next gen games on there straight away and if xbox series X games are coming to Xcloud to play on mobile and pc then surely that's hurting their console sales?
@playstation_king Sure it does. And their muddled 'change their tune every 24 hours' messaging doesn't help either.
But the thing is that through Game Pass, MS doesn't really NEED to sell X-boxes. What they want is to make you invest on their eco system and basically become 'the Netflix of gaming'.
What we should be asking ourselves is, 'What does Netflix of Gaming mean to the quality of MS 1st party games'?
@Nickolaidas that's why gamepass is on pc and now coming to mobile, think about how many mobile users there are! All they need is a £40 controller and they are already set for next gen, that right there is how they get more subscribers and is something Sony need to follow...
But like you said with out real quality games and big budget releases then it will still struggle
@Nickolaidas So basically Microsoft are gearing up to a digital only future? Just a thought
@playstation_king Game Pass gets all the new first-party games. Game Pass is doing great and Series X will do great too because the value is in there, the top specifications and optimised architecture for an affordable price (unlike PC), backwards compatibility improved with HDR (all games) and double frame rate (some games). If Xbox One S and Xbox One X did well considering the messy Xbox One launch, Series X can only do better but this time it's just part of the business. PS5 while technically inferior has the Sony fans, the brand's popularity and the Uncharted/The Last of Us/God of War/Gran Turismo fans.
@playstation_king Wouldn't surprise me to see Sony going down an 'all digital' future too. Sales speak for themselves.
https://www.ccn.com/playstation-4-digital-game-sales-overtake-physical-thats-a-first/
And every year the scale tips even more to digital's favor.
I was a only physical gamer myself. I went digital and never looked back. So convenient in so many ways. I get the 'ownership fear' people have, but I don't mind it, personally.
@Nickolaidas He didn't say exactly that but "Ultimately, we think long term that’s the right thing for the business, and will have long-term benefits for us. But, in the short term, yeah, it’s not a big profit play.” It's not that they're losing money but that it's a long-term benefit. Obviously, if they are after long-term benefits the last thing that they'd do is to make Game Pass or the included games worse. They want it to be the best value and have as many subscribers as possible and that is possible in the new generation via Series X, Series S, xCloud and PC.
@BlueOcean also and I'm not being cocky here but sony also has the major popularity and bigger brand name, its been around longer and most people get it because of that and because they trust in that brand name (though its not always justified lol)
@BlueOcean I don't see Series X doing any better in its launch than X1, considering it won't have a single AAA must-have title at launch.
@Nickolaidas That would be fine once the Internet takes big leaps and for example 50mbs is the norm/lowest on offer.
Also would feel bad for the thousands of shops and online retailers that would go out of business and people made jobless
@playstation_king Jobs come and go. For example, anyone can be a YouTuber and make a buck now, while that was all but unheard of 15 years ago.
@Nickolaidas We don't know if it will have Gears Tactics, The Medium and Flight Simulator at launch but anyway I don't necessarily mean at launch. Xbox One X was sold out as soon as it was discontinued when Microsoft thought that it would last until Series X launch. Series X and Series S will be popular too and regarding launch games, remember that PS5 only has the short Spider-Man spinoff and Astro mini games confirmed.
@playstation_king I admitted that when I mentioned the brand's popularity but it's true that it's not always justified, Playstation is just... popular.
@Nickolaidas those sales are insane, bu the huge amount of sales they have surely helped that though.
Can't see their being many playstation store sales during the first 6 months of the ps5 launch so I expect digital sales to be pretty low especially if the prices of games go up aswell which has been a major concern of mine regarding digital as they cost a lot more to buy on release day
@playstation_king Those 10 million PS5s they're making? They'll all be sold out. In a freakin' Corona impaired world. Mark my words.
@BlueOcean I dony think we can judge each consoles launch titles as they haven't been fully revealed yet and both have more presentations coming up before release where they could surprise us with something such as maybe new silent hill launch game (just me hoping) or a new gears for xbox, so I think until the launch titles are confirmed I think it's pointless bashing each others launch.
Also I think spiderman morales wa reported to be 20 hours in length which is a decent time unlike "the order 1886" now that was a joke
@Nickolaidas @playstation_king I like some PS exclusives: Wipeout Omega Collection, Ratchet & Clank and some Uncharted games.
Sorry but this is a great opportunity to mention that I had to cut the rubber around the eject button of my PS4 and it still ejects discs randomly and that it sounds like a jet engine all the time and it also makes that crunchy sounds when it heats up.
@playstation_king Expect Miles Morales to be as lengthy as Uncharted Lost Legacy. Not a main game size, but not the '6 hr DLC' crap MS fanboys like to spout.
@BlueOcean I swear to God, if my PS5 is as loud as a vacuum cleaner like my Pro, I will go to the US of A and throw it at Cerny's window.
@playstation_king Yes, that was a reply to @Nickolaidas that said that there aren't any games for Series X at launch but I'm sure that there will be, same for PS5 but, honestly, the AAA first-party games will take longer on both consoles.
Crunchy sound? Don't think I've ever heard a crunchy sound or I would be worried
But I agree with the fan noise it is pretty ridiculous at times, just play with headphones on 😂
@playstation_king No, sir!!! I refuse to use headphones when I have purchased a perfectly fine and functional 5.1 home theatre system!!
@playstation_king I don't know how to define the sound, it's the plastic parts of the case hitting each other. It doesn't bother me that much, though. It's just that it looks cheaply designed, I mean, physically.
@Nickolaidas And I forgot to mention that it also has that HDMI bug that randomly the screen turns black for half a second 🤣. Anyone can come and check themselves, all these flaws are real.
@BlueOcean Did you try changing cables? Or maybe your HDMI cable is too old and not really able to output 4K or something?
@Nickolaidas Or buy a really long hdmi so you can put the console in another room so you cant hear the noise lol
Seriously though so many people have complained about this so I fully expect sony to atleast had fixed this issue
@Nickolaidas I haven't tried any other HDMI cable, I heard of this bug online and I thought it was the console but it doesn't hurt to try another HDMI cable.
@playstation_king Cerny acknowledged it in his Road to PS5 speech, saying that 'we didn't do the best job in that area'. He said that 'we will be pleased with the results'.
Well, considering the fact that they've overclocked the PS5 to kingdom come, I sure hope so, Mark!
@BlueOcean A colleague of mine complained that she connected her laptop with her TV and it would stutter every now and then. I gave her a different HDMI cable and it worked perfectly.
She thanked me, but still wouldn't have sex with me. Mind-boggling.
@playstation_king @Nickolaidas I think the reason why the PS5 is the biggest console ever (or like the original PS3) is the cooling design. Look at all those vents along the borders of the console.
@Nickolaidas LOL I'm going to try with another HDMI cable and let you know.
@BlueOcean Agreed. I think it'll be cool. Or at least, not a jet engine.
@BlueOcean yeah you could be right both consoles are bulky in a way that they both need powerful cooling systems as more power is needed and being used. I am hoping Sony announce those plates on either side are changeable so I can buy cool colours and patterns lol
@playstation_king The plates are supposedly removable, according to some questionable unofficial pictures flowing around twitter.
@BlueOcean and hopefully settings to change the colour of the light being emitted at the front
@playstation_king You can buy insect-like plates that along with the PS5 asymmetrical design and the blue antennas/wings on the top are going to make your console a sight to behold 🤣.
@BlueOcean Don't say that, you make me want that now 😂
Doesn't hurt for customization lol
@Savino i dont think Nintendo is out of the war they have just decided to go about the war differently, nintendo still NEEDS to sell games to make money, their nintendo online is and will be a joke till their next system.....they dont have a gamepass or even a ps+ style of subscription really, 20$ fo the yea and you get NES and SNES games "free" vs xbox and sony giving you free games every month....what im saying is Ninty still needs to sell systems to sell software just like sony the only difference is in their systems approach. sony has gone hardcore, and nintendo is trying to bring you into the fold with portable gaming and the option of gaming on the tv.... its still a war its just the two oponents seems to be trying different strategies...and then theres Microsoft whos moving towards a service and it wouldn t surprise me to see gamepass or project xcloud on nintendo switch at some time in the future, and that will be the move that has the series X being the last ms console and they will be a service this is just my opnion but if the series X doesnt sell well that will be their excuse to do services only.
@Blessed_Koz the Nintendo switch has no competition as its doing its own thing and is the only handheld console so has that while market to itself which has helped its impresse sales.
The switch will continue to sell really even after next gen gets released as its affordable. Caters to tv and handheld players, has a beasty first party library already, and of course has animal crossing lol all they need is a decent price cut at holiday season and I'm sure it will keep up
@playstation_king "I've been a playstation fan since the age of 9" - judging from your posts you must be nearly 10 now?
@Neither_scene and whys that?
@playstation_king "your wasting your time with butt hurt xbox fanboys tbh that's what 3 generations of losing a console war does and this trend will Continue" - clearly written by a child, especially given that it's "you're"
@Neither_scene ah, you're part of the grammar police i see. I am very sorry...
I will refrain from using the word "your" like that from now on just to please you
@playstation_king even with the correct grammar the whole paragraph reads like something my 8 year old cousin would write.
@Nickolaidas
Ignore button is great for trolls. Bye. 👋
@Neither_scene well I didn't write it to please anyone lol that's what rush typing at work does I'm afraid
@Nickolaidas KelticDevil always blocks anyone defending or backing up sony has he knows its a losing battle and has nothing to comment back
It would be ironic if Series X ended up selling more than PS5.
Microsoft have been moving from strength to strength, so they just need to continue with what they're currently doing.
@playstation_king “ gamepass that has only last gen games until late 2021(or was that just on Xcloud?) . Xbox need next gen games on there straight away and if xbox series X games are coming to Xcloud to play on mobile and pc then surely that's hurting their console sales?”
I don’t know if this got answered; I’m not wading through the bravado. It just xCloud. xCloud runs on Xbox one S blades right now. The Series X conversion is happening next year. On the other hand, Gamepass will have Series X games they already confirmed The Medium for it.
Chill. Play games. Forget what another person picks for a plastic box to play them on.
@Jaxx420
I know, right? The PlayStation Push Square trolls are out in full force over here today!
Maybe they are bored because they need more games to play? Thankfully, Xbox has us covered. 😁👍🏻
@Nickolaidas I'm not sure why AA, or even A or B games are a bad thing. Seriously, some of my best experiences have come from smaller titles. Hell, for the last 5 or so years I've been advocating for Halo to become a smaller scale franchise, because I've found AAA titles to just be god awful. Look at some of the stuff Acti, EA and Ubisoft pump out. AAA titles riddled with microtransactions, bad stories, bland gameplay, and broken and buggy.
In contrast you can get a smaller dev like Obsidian partner with a smaller publishing arm like the Private Division, and somehow release Outer Worlds, completely shaming Bethesda and its mega franchises.
And the console wars have been tedious for more than a decade at least. Watching fanboys yell about PS3 outselling the 360 after the generation ended, but saying the Wii didn't count? In a gen where all three did fantastic, splitting hairs is just sad.
@Richnj
We finally agree on something! Lol.
I agree that all three consoles of the 360/PS3/Wii generation were successes. And that is a good thing for us gamers bc that was a great generation with everyone competitive.
And I also agree about the “AA” games statement. Some of the best games I have played haven’t been “AAA”. Sony fans would probably call them “Game Pass trash”, but whatever. That’s their opinion.
Like I said before......maybe they are bitter that PS Now is garbage & they want to hate on Game Pass & it’s library? No idea.
@Richnj It has to be said that PS3 sold more units after the generation ended with cheap revisions when replying to (real) fanboys that say that PS3 oversold 360 on Xbox websites. I and others have said that comment for that reason. I also have said that the last generation was balanced and that the next one will be similar. Correcting doesn't make somebody a "yelling fanboy". I only had Wii and DS last generation and didn't have a PS and an Xbox until this generation.
@KelticDevil what games they got you covered with 😂😂
@Medic_Alert Yeah, exactly. I can understand why people prefer PS5 for their exclusives and def don't blame them on that, but saying Xbox lost the console war is wrong imo. I find it interesting how people talk about the amazing Sony exclusives all the time, but what about all those awesome games from the last two Xbox events? There's literally like 2 dozen exclusives they showed on Xbox, and all of them looked pretty fun and interesting to me. Obviously you can play them all on PC too but they still will feel like console exclusives to a lot of people who don't play on PC
@KelticDevil you keep going on about us having no games yet we have more 1st party games than you and more JRPG's, and how many games have xbox had in the top 10 charts this year? I can count them with one hand even if that hand has 4 fingers missing I could still count them 😂👍
@MasterkillerX Right. There were literally dozens exclusive games that looked nice and some of them definitely must-have 😁.
@BlueOcean what part of not acknowledging Wii sales wouldn't make them a yelling fanboy?
@Richnj What makes you think they don't when they are just comparing Xbox and PS?
@MasterkillerX
I completely agree. Microsoft has lots of cool exclusives coming that have me excited. Plus we get to play them on Game Pass day 1.
And there a lot of great Microsoft first party games on Game Pass right now. The PlayStation fanboys can talk all they want, but you don’t see us Xbox fans over on Push Square ripping into everything Sony does. We’re too busy playing all the great games we have access to. 👍🏻
Phil realised he can’t beat the competition so is changing the game.
@playstation_king well to be fair MS games have done very well on PC. Look at Grounded? That tells me that the games themselves aren’t the inherent issue that people make them out to be, it’s more that the games aren’t “system sellers”. It’s like giving someone a free car and giving them a choice between a Ferrari and a Subaru. Of course, they’ll pick the Ferrari; but that hardly make the Subaru a bad car. Does it?
Anyway I honestly think changing the chessboard a little is a good thing. And if that means someone like you personally gets to play MS games and still buy a PS5? Well everyone wins. Both companies get money and you get to play.
@BlueOcean Because I'm referring specifically to those who try to claim ps3 won that gen, and when reminded that the Wii sold more, they claim the console didn't count because 'insert reason' .
It's an exchange I've seen far too often. I'm not saying you can't say that PS3 outsold 360 without being a fanboy. I'm saying far too many fanboys cherry pick their facts to better suit their narrative.
It wasn't too long ago I had someone claim BC would be a great draw for the PS5. When I asked if that meant the XSX had a great feature with its BC programme, all of a sudden "people don't play much BC games". BC mattered until it didn't. Same with console unit sales. They matter, until they don't.
@mousieone I see your point and I agree, grounded does indeed look good and I hope it does come to game pass when Xcloud on android launches so i can try it, but without system sellers and focusing on gamepass and Xcloud on android and pc so you don't even need an xbox series X to play new titles, how do they expect to shift many units? It's all pointing towards Microsoft gearing up for a digital future with Xcloud and gamepass leading the way and Sony and Nintendo being the only consoles on the market whilst xbox are the Netflix of gaming
@playstation_king Grounded is on the preview, and they soft launched XCloud for Android, so go play 😻
I guess that true kinda, I’ll get to that, but I’m also not sure Sony‘s is going to be making consoles for much longer either. I mean they are putting out an all digital model. But I don’t think it’s an all digital future per se, if I’m honest, it’s PC. The consoles themselves have so much shared technology with PC these days, I’m not sure how much longer either company can warrant a box. But it’s just my personal feeling that we are vastly getting to a point where the cost of the console vs PC is not longer as big as it once was. We aren’t there yet by any means but even now it’s the software sales that drive both companies. I dunno just something I think about.
@KelticDevil Sorry if I threatened your safe space. If I knew you were so insecure about your plastic toy to the point that you need to post laughing and thumbs up emojis to pat yourself in the back for being so awesome, I wouldn't have even bothered.
@playstation_king in fairness the work MS have done to turn the ship around after the way the XB1 was revealed has been great to see, in Spenser theyve clearly got a guy who's passionate about the industry and with Gamepass they've given people who might not have £50 a month to buy a game a chance to play a good selection of games, It doesn't really appeal to me as I like to actually own something but its great never the less the fact that you wont necessarily even need an Xbox to enjoy the best the machines have to offer is great for the most casual of gamer.
@Richnj AA games are not bad, but I don't want AAA IPs to be demoted to AA games. And besides, what's the point of building a 12TF console if you don't intend to take advantage of all that power?
@Kopite People give a lot of credit to Spencer but they neglect the fact that he murdered quite a few of games people were legitimately interested in.
Scalebound? Murdered.
Phantom Dust reboot? Murdered.
Fable Legends? Murdered.
All these were games that had me hyped and hoping for MS to finally up their 1st party game instead of going always Halo, Gears, Forza.
I'm honestly curious to see how many of those 25 'exclusives' will end up seeing the light of day and won't quietly die some months from now. Will we actually play Avowed? Will we see Fable becoming a real game? (considering they're still hiring key positions for that game)
@AlexSora89 ''Good words that will get twisted with an unhealthy amount of sass over at Push Square.''
It's people like you that keep the console wars alive mate
We don't know what the future holds but in the here and now consoles are really good value. Ironically, it is Nintendo's which only offers good value in their games (or some) but not in the hardware (Wii, Wii U, Switch...) and the only ones that don't publish any games on PC but they publish games on Android/iOS and not really the good ones.
If you have read about Series X engineering you can't help being amazed because of all the features and optimisation that make it outperform a PC with similar specifications for a portion of the price, just like Xbox One X.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-inside-xbox-series-x-full-specs
If you view the console wars like a game of football, someone's gotta lose. Nintendo couldn't compete anymore so they created their own niche market with Switch and now they can't make "Consoles" fast enough. Now MS are trying to do the same with a Game pass subscription service. Sony are still following the traditional path and selling loads of "Consoles".
I still think Phil Spencer is not the right man for the job. What company makes a console and then says we don't mind if our new console doesn't sell we're about more than that. The game is still about shifting consoles as far as I can see.
Phil is a slippery f-er who talks c@#p for a living.
@Nickolaidas Can I just confirm that this argument is based on xbox games not being as graphically impressive as the PS ones?
Because if it is, then we have to acknowledge that plenty first party PS5 games are going to run at 30fps, and if the insider info is correct it won't be native 4k either. And what this means is that Sony are (and historically has) put more emphasis on pretty visuals over higher end performance. In contrast to Halo which 343i is saying supports 120fps and 4k.
Either way that power is getting used. It's just getting used in different areas.
@Richnj By insider info, you mean that out-of-context tweet that the now demoted ERA mod Dusk Golem shared with us because he was unhappy with all the negative press MS was receiving after the whole Halo Infinite demo & delay fiasco and desperately wanted to give MS a 'win'? The same tweet that was debunked by a true expert which called Dusk out on his supposed info?
It's amusing to hear the FUD the PS5 is gathering when we've seen numerous games running on an PS5, yet the same people conveniently forget that we haven't seen a single next-gen game running on an ACTUAL Series X. Not one. Everything next-gen shown by MS so far has been officially stated to be running on a PC. Three months before the console is released. And yet the PS5 is mocked by X-Box fanboys as a half-broken console which barely even works. Funny that. I mean, you have certain people actually believing that PS5 is RDNA 1. How much more delusional can one get?
And of course 1st party X-Box games will easily run at 120 fps if they look like Halo Infinite - which is basically an X360 open-world game upscaled to 4K. It's not rocket science. Compare Halo Infinite's visuals to Horizon Forbidden West's - it stands to reason that the latter will have difficulty running at native 4K at 60fps.
Though Insomniac verified that Spider-Man MM will have a performance mode at 4K/60fps - I'm guessing a mode where there is no Ray Tracing at all as well as lacking a few bells and whistles. Options are good.
In truth, and even your beloved Digital Foundry says it (correct me if I'm wrong), native 4K is a waste of resources FOR CONSOLES, considering what they have to sacrifice to get it, and considering the technologies that are being worked on by both Sony and MS in order to counter that.
Also, check out the GT7 gameplay trailer which runs at 4K/60fps on a PS5 and tell me what the PS5 had to sacrifice.
The total quality of a console is many things altogether. Specs, tech breakthroughs, developer talent, services ... MS is playing the specs and services cards. Sony is playing the tech breakthroughs and developer talent cards. Both are valid strategies.
Personally I prefer Sony because they tend to focus more on amazing single player experiences and because their games drop to ridiculously low prices after a few months allowing me to purchase them for a fraction of their original cost.
MS also gives tremendous value to your dollar by giving you (temporary) access to an impressive log of video games for a miniscule, almost negligible cost. They also reward those who like to invest a LOT of time on a few games and seem more and more eager to adopt the GAAS model, which is perfect if you only wish to focus on 3-5 games for an entire year and play them non stop with your friends.
Though truth be told, a lot of c*&p Halo Infinite is getting is not because of the Series X, but because of 343i. Don't know if it's incompetence, overestimation of the project scope coming to bite them in the rear, lack of talent or management issues, but the game screams 'development troubles' and it shows.
I sincerely hope the other dev teams will keep a focused approach and we'll enjoy Fable and Avowed without the same troubles. And yeah, it would be awesome to see these games actually take advantage of all that power.
Because no, I don't think that Halo Infinite is using those 12TFs. Not by a long shot.
@Nickolaidas There's a shotgun of arguments here, so I'm going to focus on one bit.
"Though truth be told, a lot of c*&p Halo Infinite is getting is not because of the Series X, but because of 343i"
I agree with this. If you've seen me around here you'd see I'm probably the biggest critic of 343i, and have been one since Halo 4,though back then I wasn't as critical as I am now. And after following the company for the last decade, I honestly believe they have a huge issue in their leadership and creative leads. And yeah, it's probably the main reason they are struggling to release a game even after 5 years of development.
@Richnj Agreed. After 5 years of development and now they're blaming Covid for Craig? please.
@tinCAT-zero
“Phil is a slippery f-er who talks c@#p for a living.”
Really?!
Says the guy who is talking “c@#p” about Phil Spencer on an Xbox website? 🙄
And Jim Ryan is waaaaayyyy worse. He is an arrogant buffoon who has said some idiotic “c@#p” over the years. I have no idea why Sony put him in charge. He reminds me of Don Mattrick.
@tinCAT-zero why on earth do you view it like a football game? You don’t view brands of peanut butter like that do you? I don’t know maybe you do. Skippy on one side Jiffy on the other. Man the mental image is hilarious 😝
Anyway Nintendo has been trying to create a hybrid device right after the Wii. You know the console that actually “won” that generation if we view like a football game. I don’t, but you do. Anyway Nintendo created the WiiU controller pad as way of playing on the go. Sony tried this as well with crossbuy/crossplay with the Vita. Oh the Vita, if we’re viewing this as a football game Nintendo handed Sony their rear in the handheld market. Didn’t they? But don’t worry that happened to Sega. Sega also tried to make sort of handheld and console hybrid with the Nomad as just one of these attempts. Point is All of the big console makers have tried in some way to make a device that covers both markets. MS is just thinking outside the box to do it. (The box lol see what I did there 😹)
My point is it’s not a football game we don’t have to have winner and losers. We can of course just play and have fun.
@mousieone
I completely agree with everything you just said.
Because @tinCAT-zero is a Sony/PushSquare fanboy with nothing better to do than talking c@#p about Phil Spencer and Microsoft and also accuses other people of being Xbox fanboys on an Xbox site. It's the only thing he does on here.
@mousieone
Yeah ok maybe a football match is a bad analogy. You are moving away from my point and the topic. Phil Spencer is talk out his rear end saying they don't mind if they don't sell that many console's. Let's leave the football match right there. I don't view the console competitive between the 3 manufacturers like a football. It was a bad analogy, jeez.
Nintendo have created their niche with the Switch whether you like it or not. A particular market where they can thrive. Sony have their market and MS are trying with Game pass to do their thing. But to say we don't care if we don't sell as many console's as the other 2. Phil need to learn to shut his gob and he'd do less damage.
Why can't MS just do like Sony and Nintendo and make some must have exclusives? And quit this double talk.
@BlueOcean
Says the big Butt-hurt Xbox fanboy who spends his time whining about Playstation and Push square. Grow up and get a bit of cop on. It's boring listening to you childish rants.
@KelticDevil
I'm saying it as I see it. In not a MS apologist.
@tinCAT-zero
"Says the big Butt-hurt Xbox fanboy who spends his time whining about Playstation and Push square. Grow up and get a bit of cop on. It's boring listening to you childish rants".
Nope, that's not me, I have heavily criticised The Last of Us I and II but I almost never visit PushSquare even though I have a PS4 because of people like you, insecure and very rude PushSquare fanboys with nothing better to do than accusing other people of the things that they do, like ranting. You're always here lurking in the shadows even though you hate Xbox. It's so sad.
@tinCAT-zero
Why are you even here? Just to troll? It’s pretty pathetic that you choose to spend your time on an Xbox website & you, clearly, hate Xbox for........reasons?
I guess Sony doesn’t give you PlayStation fans enough interesting games to play, so you crawl over here from Push Square to just talk nonsense.
Thankfully, we have plenty of games to play on Xbox. Bye 👋, troll. You are now “ignored”.
@BlueOcean
Just ignore the trolls. That’s what I do.
And it’s also handy because then it makes it easier to scroll to the comments of people who actually make sense. 😂
Like I said......all of these bored, angry PlayStation fanboys from Push Square don’t seem to have enough games to play. 😂
@KelticDevil Yes, I've done that a few times 😁.
@KelticDevil
What's it to do with you as to where I am? The moderators have got onto you before about saying that to people. At least I have something to say unlike you who underneath it all actually say nothing except I like Phil.
@tinCAT-zero actually I’m not off topic; the topic of the thread is the two different business models. 😝
Also, I’ve never talked about Phill that’s your business. I just thought the football analogue was a bit out off topic and funny. Specially in context of the thread.
Look, I try not to get hung up on whose running what because at end of the day, it’s a corporation. Nor as I’m super duper loyal to a brand, because at the end of the day it’s corporation. And honestly I don’t see the point in having some sort of war over what under the TV. Also, whether you having feelings towards Phil, doesn’t make a change. Just like the people who were against Dexit, or the TLOU2 controversy. The reality is none of that matters. So keep on hating Phil? I mean doubt it makes a difference but maybe your cosmic energy will reach someone who can actually address your personally problems.
@mousieone
Yeah I'll stop the hating. I just want MS to make some good games. Honestly I'm not a fanboy. If anything I was a Nintendo fanboy back in the day. Now I buy all the consoles if I can afford to. There are a couple of absolute blind fanboys on this site and I've just been fighting my corner with the two biggest offenders. No need to mention names.
What bugged me about Phil was the bit where he criticised the business model that the games industry was built on since the NES. Exclusive software sells hardware. He said it was anti consumer. That just got up my nose.
@tinCAT-zero well that’s fair grievance. I mean again they are businessmen. Phil is a businessmen. Look at Epic right now? They is trying to make it seem like they are the victim against Apple and Google. They are literally sending kids( because that their demographic) out to do war with a business all so Epic gets more money. Does it benefit the smaller devs? Sure. But it’s always about money, and getting more.
Its a real a shame a thread about a genuine trend of the big three finding their own direction to go down is being clogged up by console war comments.
The console war is dead. Let it rest in peace 🤣
@Jaxx420
Any article that they write here that brings up anything Phil Spencer says, the Push Square crowd loses their minds. I’m not sure why.
Like I mentioned earlier...... maybe they have nothing better to do? You won’t see me over on a PlayStation website criticizing everything Sony does. It’s like.....who cares?
Just enjoy the system you buy & play some games. 👍🏻
@KelticDevil At the same time, some people always feel the need to mention Sony and PushSquare in pretty much every comment section, even though it has nothing to do with it. Classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.
I also bet that the vast majority of PushSquare regulars don't have posted a single comment here yet, so it's a gross generalisation. Just to put in perspective. These comments like "the PushSquare crowd does this", "the PureXbox crowd does that" don't contribute to anything positive either. And don't worry, I'll rag on anyone on PS or NL as well if necessary.
Like you say; Just enjoy the system you buy & play some games.
@Nickolaidas didn't he think Platinum were taking the piss with Scalebound?
I'm interested to see what some of those games are but until there's some gameplay im not interested. Avowed and Fable are at least 2 years away given how MS are continuing to support the XB1 for the time being and only series x was shown at the end of the cg trailers.
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