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Topic: Series X won't run on my existing system - REALLY?

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HRPOWER

My "techie" friend said that the new Series X won't run on my existing system and I would basically need to move my house to the left 2 inches, in order to run the games and the console!

I have a 65 inch 4k TV Samsung - not the newest - probably 4/5 years old.
A Sony 5.1 Dolby Digital Amp and Kef Egg 5.1 monitors.
A long USB cable up into the loft and back down to my AMP
A long USB cable from my amp to the XBox - Day one Edition! ( I know still rolling )

It was his claim - there was no point getting a Series X because.

1. I don't have something called Variable Bit Rate apparently
2. I don't have HDMI 2.1 which is different to 2.0
3. My tv is basically ****.
4. My amp can go in the bin as-well because that wont support HDMI 2.1 either.

He also says that the XBOX One X is not much different to the Series X and so I should buy one of those instead.

Is he talking bollocks. If he is NOT - what would you recommend?

Edited on by antdickens

HRPOWER

BAMozzy

@HRPOWER Your TV will work with Series X - you just won't get 120 frames being displayed on your TV as it will be limited to 60fps. Games may still run at 120fps BUT only send 60 (drop every other frame) because HDMI 2.0 doesn't have the bandwidth to carry 120 4k frames every second

Your TV doesn't have Variable Refresh Rate so it refreshes at '60hz'. Therefore any game that drops frames will look a bit juddery or end up with screen tear. VRR means that if the game is running at 54frames per second, you TV is refreshing at 54hz - every time a new frame is received, it refreshes to display that frame so you don't get judder (where one frame maybe held longer because the next frame wasn't ready) or Screen tear.

The way you do your set up may need to change - even if you do get a new TV. The HDMI from your Console can either go through the Amp and from the amp in to the TV. This method passes the Picture through the Amp so the Amp would need to support HDMI 2.1 with VRR etc support too. VRR needs to 'communicate' with your TV to tell it to refresh the screen as well as tell the TV to switch to Auto Low Latency Mode so that could be impeded unless the amp supports it.

However, with a new TV with eARC, you can connect the HDMI 2.1 from your console to the new TV into a HDMI 2.1 port. Then connect your amp to the eARC port on your TV - with this method, you pass the Audio through the TV and get your 5.1 Audio - even though the console supports Dolby Atmos, DTS-X (5.1.4 - the 4 here being two front and two rear ceiling/overhead speakers - some Atmos systems use upfiring speakers to bounce sound off the ceiling instead) and even 7.1. If 5.1 audio is enough for you, you probably don't need to upgrade your Amp. HDMI 2.0 is more than enough bandwidth for uncompressed Atmos - let alone 5.1 - but some ARC on current TV's does not support uncompressed lossless 5.1 - if you can tell the difference between that and the compressed 5.1 - the vast majority cannot as they cut 'frequencies' outside of normal human hearing - that's the 'lossy' part).

Point is, you do NOT have to upgrade anything. It will probably work - but some features will not. Obviously, you will NOT get more than 60fps at 4k. VRR could well be more advantageous if Devs target more than 60fps - they could for example have an unlocked frame rate that's capped at 120fps but runs between 80 and 120 so VRR would be controlling the TV to refresh at 80 to 120fps. Anything below 60fps would be like playing games on your Xbox when it drops frames and VRR only works with frame rates above 45fps anyway. A game targetting 30fps means your TV screen shows the same frame twice (it refreshes twice for every frame) this is why games are either 30 (two refreshes per frame) or 60fps (1 refresh per frame) and why 30fps looks a lot smoother than 40 or 50fps.

Its up to you what you do. I don't think you would need to upgrade your amp or TV to play on Series X but will need to upgrade at least your TV to use some features. Some modes, like 120fps, may not work but I think the game will run at higher frame rates internally but only send 60 frames to your TV - essentially dropping every other frame. There is advantages to that because the game is updating much faster so input lag is reduced further making it feel more responsive. Running at 120fps will require visual compromises so you may opt to pick a better looking 60fps mode instead - even if you have 120fps TV.

Personally, I would say try it and see. You shouldn't need to upgrade anything for day 1 and upgrade if/when the time is right for you to get the 'features' you want

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

Xbox Gamertag: bamozzy

Ryall

@HRPOWER The Xbox One is Microsoft 8th generation console and the Xbox Series is Microsoft 9th generation console.
Both will connect to any TV with a HDMI port.
The Xbox series will play all games released for both the Xbox One and the Xbox series where is the Xbox One will only play Xbox One games.
If you have a choice I would recommend you get the Xbox Series X not the Xbox One X.
I would expect the Xbox One X to continue getting new games for about the next 2 to 3 years and the Xbox series X to continue getting new games for about 9 to 10 years.
The Xbox series X has twice the GPU power four times for CPU performance and 40 times the storage speed of the Xbox One X. Simply put it’s better. The Xbox series X will be likely able to output at higher frame rate and resolutions. The series X supports advanced graphical features like ray tracing that would not be possible on the One X without seriously compromising performance.

Edited on by Ryall

Ryall

HRPOWER

OMG WOW! Now THEY ARE Some useful posts. Blimey!
Looks like I have to do some smart and careful shopping then!!!!!!
Thank you gentlemen. VERY much.

HRPOWER

Ryall

@BAMozzy I think it’s fair to say that with @HRPOWER set up the series X would always perform the same or better than the one X? Assuming of course he doesn’t want to play connect motion control games.

Ryall

BAMozzy

@Ryall I quite agree!

@HRPOWER The XB1X is locked to 60fps anyway so basically your set up would probably work exactly the same as your OG Xbox One - just with a few enhancements - mostly resolution/graphical boosts and doesn't need HDMI 2.1 for VRR as that can be added to HDMI 2.0b - which is what the XB1X and some Samsung TV's were offering - it only benefits games running at 45-60fps too.

There isn't really any point in buying at all in buying an Xbox One X and Microsoft have discontinued it anyway. It won't allow you to play games like the Medium, Stalker 2, Fable, Forza Motorsport, Scorn or any other next gen only game. Its basically a higher resolution Xbox One and over the next few years, the new game releases will get fewer and fewer. Would you buy a Slim version of your current gen knowing that its part of a 7yr old gen range of consoles and going to see fewer and fewer releases when a Series X will play EVERY new Xbox game for the foreseeable future (probably next 7yrs) as well as ALL your current games - inc ALL the Xbox One X enhanced games with the Enhancements.

I really do not know who your 'tech friend' is, but he isn't a 'techie' and certainly not a friend if they are advising you to buy an Xbox One X, a console that is discontinued and not going to be getting ALL Xbox releases in the next year - let alone next 5yrs +

The Xbox One X is basically a souped up version of what you already have to provide a graphical enhancement for 4k TV owners for THIS generation software. The Series X is the NEXT generation Xbox that will play ALL (except Kinect) Xbox One (inc X enhanced games) games and many will be 'enhanced' more than the XB1X can offer and will WORK with your set-up - even if you have go without some features until you upgrade your TV. There is NO reason to waste your money on a XB1X now at all and you are much better off spending your money on a console that will see you through the next 5+ years. If you buy an XB1X, you will need to upgrade top a Series X in to play numerous games - a list that will grow and grow whilst the XB1X will get fewer and fewer new releases - probably none (but Fifa) in 2yrs...

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

Xbox Gamertag: bamozzy

BlueOcean

@HRPOWER Get Series X, it's future-proof and one generation ahead and your TV isn't *****, it just lacks features that your next TV will have. VRR is not a reason to replace your TV. I bought one last year because mine was *****: Sharp 1080p and low contrast and I got the LG C9.

BlueOcean

HRPOWER

I am seeing clouds appearing on the black screen - but that could be dirt.
And yes I would go ahead and buy one if they were'nt ALL SOLD OUUUT!

HRPOWER

HRPOWER

@BAMozzy Nice one - wow this really is very helpful. I suspect I can buy and play and upgrade a bit at a time. I may do a TV and an AMP at the same time and then just get my man to run the HDMI up and down the wall and go into the tv and use the under the carpet format for the XBOX Series X HDMI and its all less stress.

HRPOWER

graysoncharles

If you really want to take full advantage of the Series X, yeah, your current TV won't make it. Otherwise, that's a more than good enough setup for 4k gaming.

graysoncharles

BAMozzy

@HRPOWER My 4k HDR (close to) top of the range TV from 2016 won't offer me the 'full' features for next gen consoles. It too only has HDMI 2.0 and does not offer VRR or 120hz at 4k with full chroma 4:4:4 colour - it can't offer 4k 10bit 4:4:4 at 60hz but that's the same as any HDMI 2.0 TV. Only a few TV's offer VRR at the moment and some of those won't support 4k/120 either. I do have an Xbox One X (and PS4 Pro) and its more than adequate for that - although the One X does have VRR support and of course Dolby Atmos too, whilst my 5.1 audio set-up doesn't.

I will be making do with this at launch unless I happen to see an exceptional deal on a TV that makes it worth upgrading to. These consoles are at the 'forefront' of technology as far as HDMI is concerned and what the new HDMI 2.1 offers. Less than a year ago, even 8k TV's were launching without offering HDMI 2.1 ports and a lot of TV's this year launched without HDMI 2.1 too - some 'high end' TV's still don't have HDMI 2.1 and a number that do, only have 1 port - meaning if you want both a Series X and PS5, you will have to keep swapping HDMI cables over. Some TV's have the HDMI 2.1 port as the eARC port, so you have to decide whether you want to game with 4k/120 HDR and use the TV's audio or game at 4k/60 HDR and use eARC for Audio. As I said, some TV's didn't launch with HDMI 2.1 and are still waiting for a promised update - and that's not necessarily guaranteeing that the port will support ALL HDMI 2.1 features - just like not all HDMI 2.0 ports have the exact same feature set, HDMI 2.1 ports can support some/all features. ARC is a feature of HDMI 2.0 but not all HDMI 2.0 ports support ARC for example - that's why you see some labelled with ARC, MHL etc

Personally, I intend to wait a bit to see what the 2021 TV's offer, their pricing and number of HDMI 2.1 ports - whether they are full bandwidth (48Gb/s) or not (often 40Gb/s) and what feature set the ports offer. I want a TV with at least 2 separate full featured HDMI 2.1 ports as well as a separate eARC port - just so I can plug in both consoles without issue, SkyQ will occupy a 3rd and that leaves eARC for Audio. I don't want to be swapping cables just to play a different console. Currently, only LG's '9' (C9, E9 etc) and 'X' (CX...) OLEDs have 4 HDMI 2.1 ports so if you are looking, especially if you may want a PS5 in the future, these could be the best option for you.

Anyway, the point is that very few will have the 'optimum' set up on day 1 because there isn't that many TV's that will offer the full features these consoles are able to offer. That doesn't mean they won't work. Even without VRR, which smooths the image because it 'refreshes' with every new frame, its not going to mean that a game won't run and you will get the 'same' kind of issues you see today with games that don't run at a locked frame rate. VRR only benefits games from 45fps upwards too so any 30fps games won't benefit from VRR anyway. A LOT of people will be upgrading after launch.

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

Xbox Gamertag: bamozzy

BlueOcean

The C9/E9/CX are absolutely wonderful for Series X but for me it was easy to get rid of my older TV. It was a 1080p LED TV. Blacks were a combination of grey blobs and contrast was poor. Playing Xbox One X on C9 still feels like I'm dreaming but Series X will be even better with VRR (Xbox One X supports Freesync only) and Auto HDR for backwards compatible games.

Edited on by BlueOcean

BlueOcean

MaccaMUFC

@HRPOWER Sounds like your mate is talking a load of ****. BAMozzy has given you enough info that your fine for the Series X, just that you’ll be missing out on 120fps, VRR and Dolby Vision.

@Ryall I’ve seen people say that the Xbox Series is Microsoft’s 9th generation console but I’ve only counted 4 generation of Xbox consoles. 1st Xbox (2001) 2nd Xbox 360 (2005) 3rd Xbox One (2013) 4th Xbox Series (2020). What are the other 5 generation consoles?

@BAMozzy So are you planning on using your KS8000 for the Series X till the foreseeable? I will be until I get the CX sometime late next year, I know I had my doubts with burn-in, faded pixels etc but I’m planning on using it for just general TV use like soaps, Saturday night viewing and of course the Series X but will be using the TV in the dining room for sports and news.

MaccaMUFC

Ryall

@MaccaMUFC
1st gen Atari Home Pong and other black-and-white games made up of lines and dots.
2nd gen Nintendo colour TV game, Atari 2600 and other consoles capable of displaying a significant number of lines sometimes in colour.
3rd gen 8-bit console such as the NES
4th gen 16-bit consoles such as the SNES
5th gen 32-64 bit console such as the PlayStation and N64
6th gen DVD based consoles like the PlayStation 2 and Xbox
7th gen Xbox 360 and other consoles released around the same time.
8th gen Xbox One consoles that install a hard drive and allow games to be patched.
9th gen Xbox series and PlayStation five consoles with fast SSDs.
Since 1972 have been a series of devices that plug into TVs and allow you to play games. The concept of generations allows you to group them together into different levels of performance. Moving from one generation to the next allows new and better experiences.

Edited on by Ryall

Ryall

BAMozzy

@MaccaMUFC Yeah - I am keeping with the KS8000 for the foreseeable future unless I see a great deal on a CX. I am concerned about uneven wear though as my TV is usually on for at least 10/12hrs a day so that much usage will add up quickly and could cause problems in a few years but its really the only option right now for a gamer that wants both next gen consoles and the full HDMI 2.1 features without having to keep swapping HDMI cables...

@Ryall I really think that trying to pigeon hole consoles into a generic set of generations is ridiculous. We are still only on the 3rd Generation of Xbox consoles with the 4the generation coming up - there has only been 4 generations of Playstation with 5th about to launch.

Under the 'generic' set, Nintendos Switch is a 9th Generation Console as the 6th was the Game Cube, 7th was the Wii, and 8th was the WiiU. The Switch though can't play many of the 8th Generation games and barely much more capable than a 7th generation. Its pointless to use that old metric as its not relevant anymore and much better to think of them individually as in Sony's 5th generation Playstation, Microsofts 4th Generation Xbox and Nintendo's 7th generation Console.

It stopped being relevant after Sega's Dreamcast, Nintendo's GameCube, Sony's PS2 and the OG Xbox. You can still think of them that way if it makes you happy but by that, the 9th Gen launched with the Switch. The only thing that really has in common is solid state (flash) storage but won't be playing '9th' generation games and no doubt, Nintendo will have a 10th generation console out in a couple of years, and maybe an 11th generation as Sony and Microsoft release their 'next' generation console.

The Wii U launched in 2012, 5yrs later the Switch, 2022 could see Switch 2 and 2027 Switch 3 for example just as Sony/MS release their 'next gen' systems. So would they be Generation 10 or Generation 11? The Wii was the 'next gen' Nintendo so that would be Gen 7 along with the 360/PS3, the Wii U was Gen 8 before PS4/XB1 launched and now with the Switch, they were 'first' to gen 9 by 3years. These upcoming consoles are really behind the times and could well be releasing Gen 10 consoles just as Nintendo is releasing a Gen 11...

See how out of date and irrelevant that all is...

We are about to see the release of Microsofts 4th generation of Xbox and Sony have their 5th Generation Playstation. Nintendo have their 7th Gen console.

What generation Smartphone are we on, what generation tablet are we on - Apple weren't the first to make Smartphones, I had a smartphone years before Apple. We know that Apple have their 12th generation iPhone releasing but what generation smartphone is that???

Edited on by BAMozzy

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

Xbox Gamertag: bamozzy

Ryall

@BAMozzy I think you’re misunderstanding what I mean by a generation. It’s a period of time and doesn’t necessarily change because a particular manufacturer has put out a new piece of hardware. Each console is obviously unique and has different capacities from the others and where you draw the lines always going to be slightly arbitrary. But I still think it’s useful to group consoles together so you can rapidly tell someone what time period you’re talking about.

In the earlier discussion describing what the differences between the Xbox One family and the Xbox Series family It’s easiest to say that the Xbox One’s are eighth generation consoles and the Xbox series are ninth generation consoles.

Counting hardware iterations from a individual company is not particularly helpful because different companies entered the market at different times and have iterated at different rates.

Edited on by Ryall

Ryall

Ryall

@BAMozzy As for your question about smart phone generations. We are currently on the fifth generation of Mobile phones. You would probably consider third, fourth and fifth generation mobile phones to be smart.

Ryall

BlueOcean

@MaccaMUFC, it's exactly what @Ryall says, consoles are grouped together chronologically and not exclusively in power terms. Time is the key criterion and there usually are a few that start the generation and stand out, technically, because they are using newer technology. The next generation (ninth generation) starts with Series X/S and PS5. The current generation (eight generation) includes Wii U, Xbox One (X), PS4 (Pro), Switch and the handheld and retro consoles that have been released: 3DS, Vita, NES Classic, etc. The current generation is atypical because it has a ton of differently-powered consoles and some don't even consider the emulation-based consoles "proper" consoles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_video_game_console

Edited on by BlueOcean

BlueOcean

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