Tunic Publisher 'Concerned' About Subscription Services Like Xbox Game Pass

Why moan about Game Pass after taking money to be on it. Hope they never get to go on it again ungrateful cretins.

I would rather Game Pass had more bigger games I haven't subscribed to Indie Pass. Majority of indies available are trash with some good ones. Microsoft will obviously spend on what is more popular to increase subscriptions no doubt on it.

No point in a dev making valid points to punters. They just want something for next to nothing even if it eventually leads to the death of small scale development. The reply above clearly demonstrates this.
They have every reason to be concerned as the fundemental foundations of the game buisness change and the service holders take all the power..

One of the most important reasons for subscribing to GamePass is the great variety in the games it offers and, having the opportunity to try the fantastic little gems from the Indie developers scene is an absolute must for me, it's the reason I love the service. And when I can, (mostly on sales) also outright purchase these games.

Microsoft has to make sure the balance between supporting, exposure and fair financing will always be there for the (frankly) invaluable Indies and small developers. Having AAA games will be great, sure, but not at the cost of the smaller developing community.

I think the comment fails to recognize however, that Game Pass also brings a lot more attention to most indies than they would ever get without it. We are seeing that a lot. I've played a lot of indies I would've never bought or checked out otherwise. While I get the potential problem with curation, it also rewards indie devs who make good games. More of a risk for mediocre to subpar game makers. I'd rather there be a better platform for cream to rise to the top than have actually good games market visibility be clouded by shovelware. And the open market is still there as well. This is actually, the best time in gaming history to be an indie dev and have your good game get noticed.

its tough for indies.

people do not sub to GP because of them. subs come from AAA, and when MS drop them regular, indies will get lost in there

I bet it's scary from xbox's perspective too. Indie games are the most boom or bust product in gaming. Way more likely to be a surprise hit but also way more likely to be completely ignored than even a mediocre AAA.

They are probably a lot cheaper to secure for gamepass but they are way less likely to convince people to subscribe. Even though vampire survivors did really well, it probably didn't lead to subscriptions.

@stvevan Couldn't be more untrue. I've played soo many more indies through Game Pass than I ever did without it.

Personally I’m more likely to play an indie that’s included in gamepass than I am to pay for a game by a relatively unknown/unproven studio. Provided they are paid fairly it should be a great launchpad for indie studios

@Cyberpsycho Agree and disagree there.

Game Pass has been awesome for offering exposure to some fantastic indie games that the devs wouldnt have otherwise gained from going down the normal route.

Can agree though it needs to be value for money and avoid any kind of "shovelware" type scenario and have access to big games. Would argue all of Microsofts first party being on there day and date covers that though?

@Sol4ris Hear Hear! I agree absolutely with every word of your post.
Getting a chance to try some of these indies you wouldnt normally buy is one of the great attractions of these types of service, and I hope as these services develop they are tailored to providing a great place for indie devs to be noticed and make a good living.

I believe Microsoft has enough experience by now to manage GP and sales in a way that neither will be harmed.

I don't think having an indie game on a subscription service means it will necessarily sell fewer copies or anything. Ultimately it will depend on how good their game is. I've played good games on Game Pass that weren't good enough for me to buy them, and I've played good games on there that made outright purchase them.

The irony here is that the article is trying to spin the concern here as being worried about subscription services harming indie devs, while the actual concern is a worry about small devs NOT being able to be on them!!

The root concern here is that the popularity of GaaS games on subscriptions will mean providers won't have an interest in providing the smaller games along side them, meaning the subscription is a boon to these games and the fear of losing presence within services would be bad.

So far that doesn't appear to be the case, as critics regularly deride Game Pass as "Indie Pass" and indeed many complain the focus is too much on indies and not enough of major titles, while the major titles seem to be more fearful of losing day 1 FOMO sales to subscriptions. AAAs are afraid OF subscriptions and indies are afraid of NOT being on them it would seem, so all is probably well for the foreseeable future.

Additionally I think Phil has commented on the big GaaS games on subs and said that those tend not to work as well for subs because people tend to just play one or two major games on a continual basis and are less likely to try other games, defeating the purpose of subscribing at all. As GaaS continually moves more toward F2P with mtx-based revenue, I only see that trend continuing, with Halo's multiplayer GaaS portion being an F2P mtx based game while the single player campaign was part of the subscription a good indication of that, along with CoD Warzone rapidly becoming the "main" service part of CoD.

I think the concerns here are actually a bigger issue for the industry at large than for one business model or another. As more and more gaming is focused on life-consuming time devouring GaaS platforms, each becoming sort of a closed social media network of their own, how much room remains in the market for small solo games AT ALL, whether retail or subscription, in terms of money or engagement time? We're due for a reckoning and mass consolidation of indie gaming matching AAA gaming I think. So much supply and only so much demand in terms of both money and time to spend on them vs the major platform games that "everybody plays." I don't see how they can all make the kind of returns that are needed to produce modern games even on a small scale with how widely spread customer time and money is currently. And that probably applies to the retail marketplace even moreso than subscriptions which are totally de-risked, and even "for free" I tend to ignore so many promising indie games as I work through my backlog of "big" games I've still not got around to over a decade.

I absolutely loved Tunic but i think his point is backwards. Having the subscription service has actually freed teams up. Obsidian was able to pursue Pentiment (that third chapter, ugh). Redfall itself was supposed to be more games as service but they were able to focus on what they really wanted to do with it after acquisition.

@NEStalgia

The irony here is that the article is trying to spin the concern here as being worried about subscription services harming indie devs, while the actual concern is a worry about small devs NOT being able to be on them!!

Someone actually read the article!!!!

I been reading these comments (starting with the very first one... the worst in the thread) that obviously didn't bother to read beyond the headline. But yes, this is about them fearing a future where indie titles will not be given the time of day in the not-so-far-away future. I think that's a very legitimate fear from Sony's service, if your indie title does not have extremely fancy graphics (similar to Stray) its likely you wont get much luck getting into PSNEx.

From the article:

If your service has the majority of people just play one game on it and subscriptions do better with live services

I understand the dev's concern but live games actually are not that great for subscriptions like this. They usually have their own means of monetization, be it expansion pack cycles like Destiny and ESO, or simply microtransactions and season passes.

By now most devs have realized service games need to be free out of the gate to be able to build any momentum, look at Fortnite, Overwatch 2, Halo Infinite MP and Warzone.

The subscription models like Game Pass need to focus a lot more on finite experiences.

@somnambulance

I mean, 10 years ago, I’d usually watch between 50 and 100 movies a year and 20-30 shows and now I maybe do a quarter of that and I might be being generous.

Have you consider these days you likely spend a lot more time playing games than watching movies? I know it's the case for me personally. With few nerdy exceptions (MCU) I tend to simply prefer to spend my time with interactive media than with something I get shoot at me whether I think or not.

Interestingly, as much as I love a good story in a game, I also am tired of games that are more movie than game.

Yes I don’t like subscription services at all. I just want to pay for the games I play

It all depends on the gamer but i personally like the smaller indie games over the blockbusters. Haven't tried tunic yet but it's on my list to play. If it wasn't in gamepass it wouldn't be on my list to play. So definitely a threat to folks that don't get into the service because for me and likely many others gamepass is what I play.

@Tharsman full-time job with OT, kids with a ton of activities and a wife who needs time together to get the good stuff....i just don't have time to spend on things i used to do a lot of. So TV consumption has tanked for my shows/movies as I'd rather play given the chance. But i remember rewatching a favorite movie a few times a year....now I'll watch a few movies in a year and mostly kid ones lol.

Vampire Survivors. I never would have heard let alone play that game if it wasn't for Game Pass.

I think I understand the point he's making, but I've played more than 10 indie titles in the past year that I otherwise would not have played because of game pass. While I know I don't fully know the reimbursement structure, it has to be better than not purchasing or playing the game at all.

There will be an adjustment period in the industry should the subscription service idea continue to grow, but I think it will only make it easier for indie titles to be made as companies look for lower cost games to add to the service, not AAA blockbuster budgets.

Honestly it’s the indies that bring me to gamepass. 90% of AAA games are bland, bloated and bloated with uninspired gameplay because they focused on being as pretty and profitable as possible.

@stvevan I might not have thought any the indies on GP before subbing but now is what keeps me coming back. Indies are the lifeblood of GP and I’m richer for it. I even drop money on them if I love them regardless of whether they’re leaving the service or not.

@Cyberpsycho Dude did you read his comments? He wasn't moaning about Gamepass he was expressing concern that one day Gamepass and other subs won't want games like Tunic as they have all the "AAA" and live service games instead. Its fair to say Gamepass has really helped out Indies and has giving exposure to Indie games that may have lacked it without Gamepass, he's just worried that could change.

@ParsnipHero @Sebatrox ive enjoyed indies on GP, cant deny some are great.

but once people have hundreds of hours to sink into MHRise, starfield, forza etc indies will take a hit no doubt. thats the worry they have

Don't get me wrong, I love Tunic, but if the game wasn't on gamepass it wouldn't be played by millions of players around the world. The studio has an opportunity to make a name and be recognized by millions of players, so the next title that they release even if it is not on gamepass it will get more people to buy the game because of Tunic was on gamepass. That's a no brainer, I guess.

I only have XGP for the indies, I play very few AAA games any more, my experience is they usually more buggy and overlook quality of life features (I tried playing Outer Worlds, played for almost 2 hours, died, and somehow had no autosaves??)

@stvevan don’t get me wrong I mostly play Halo and Sea of Thieves via GP but if that’s all I wanted to play I’d just but then outright.

I think if the indie support dwindled I probably wouldn't bother at all with game pass ... I mean what else are they gonna do? Release the big first party games we've all been waiting for on it? That'll be the day 😆

@Cyberpsycho Thats not called moaning , its just raising concerns. I mean it even in the headline. Only a moments though leads to think maybe hes not recived the sales he was still hope for on other platforms. I dunno there a plethora of options

@themightyant you, like the rest of us on here are gamers. we will play the great pentiment/vampire survivor. but they dont get casuals to sign up.

I guarantee with full confidence once MS sort their studios out, less time will be spent playing indies. apart from the odd stand out.

thats the issue for the indies because recently people have had more time to try them, but that engagement will drop from people who dont frequent these sites

This comment section, holy moly. Just knee jerk defend gamepass at all costs reaction or what?

And if theres any doubt that almost no one read the fairly short article, Bekah is a woman, not a he.

These types of articles are interesting to an extent, but I don't know the subscription model payout structure for devs and pubs, how GP payments differ from Apple Arcade or the PS or google versions, etc., and it is still pretty new. I guess we'll all see how it pans out. I've been on gamepass just over a year. I bought a Series S just to get gamepass and use it like am arcade, and that's pretty much what I have done. Mainly playing "indies," based mostly on what is available in genres I like, and also I tend to seek shorter games. It also let's me play big, longer games and bounce off without buyer's remorse. But if all these planned huge games come out this year, all that may change and I may ignore the indies for the bigger games. Like I say, it is pretty new and always changing, so tough to say. Based on January, I will be playing the Inkulati (sorry for spelling) game and ignoring the AAA offerings. That won't be the case in Feb. I don't know if Inkylati is truly indie either. Defining indie is like defining craft beer, it's a really big tent.

What does Xbox pay to those who have their games on the pass? Is it better to get a steady smaller income or take the chance and strike out on your own. Should the game not sell as well as hoped they still have to option to put it on gamepass after release?

@Cyberpsycho
Strongly disagree with that tbh. Asking to be paid "a decent salary" is hardly 'moaning'.

Plus, you need to consider everyone else using this service, if Game Pass only contained AAA games and no indies, that would devalue it quite significantly, in both the views of customers and MS.

@Lup Vampire Survivor is such a funny game. I purchased it on steam because I regularly compare the reviews on there and the Xbox store before I get something (since the eShop doesn't and Sony removed them altogether). I saw the game had over 150k reviews and the score was overwhelmingly positive, then I played for the first time on game pass and didn't even like it at first, I played a couple more times and it turned into a bit of an episode to see how crazy I could make things.

I usually try out indie games on Game Pass then buy them on Switch if I like them (if available) as these games feel perfect for portable play.

Indies provide fresh new ideas and variety to games where AAA is sometimes the same bs you played a few years ago.

Dont get me wrong AAA games are important too, but, if thinking you need more big names to account for your subscription value, you feel extremely disappointed with gamepass.

They shouldn't worry too much. I would never have played let alone bought Tunic on steam had it not been for gamepass ultimate.

I played it on the Xbox and enjoyed it and when I enjoy something enough I buy it even if I played it already. Things aren't on GP forever and it's likely this dev made a ton of money, more than they likely would have in sales and then sales were generated BECAUSE of gamepass.

Other indie devs have spoken about the difference between being on gamepass and other services and they all said they were more than happy with Microsoft and the results.

I understand why a developer might worry but I don't think there is cause to do so.