If you've been keeping up with the goings on over at Push Square recently, you'll know that Gran Turismo 7 has been suffering some major launch issues, with the game's servers going down for over 24 hours on PS4 and PS5.
Gran Turismo 7 requires an internet connection in order to save gameplay progress, so that means the majority of the game was rendered unplayable during that time, which conjured up plenty of drama on social media in particular.
Now that the issues have been resolved, the debate has evolved to include Xbox as well. The Verge's Tom Warren drew a lot of attention with his Twitter post explaining that GT7 "highlights a problem with modern games", pointing out that Xbox also has an issue with sometimes requiring an internet connection even when using the disc.
This is definitely not the first time we've heard this â in fact, debates about online requirements on Xbox have been going on for a very long time, and have resurfaced in a different way over the past year-or-so with the reveal that Smart Delivery discs on Xbox tend to contain the Xbox One version, so you sometimes have to download the Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S version all over again... even if you bought the game physically.
Warren went on to state that issues like this, and online requirements in games, are becoming "the new norm":
"Not enough people have been taking notice about DRM and online requirements in games. As modern games get more complex, outages are the new norm. Even for what we thought of as 'single player' games."
You may recall that Xbox actually responded to some of these types of concerns all the way back in May of 2021, with a developer by the name of OscarK explaining that some of the DRM issues on Xbox were caused by "generic and unclear error messaging" in certain cases, and the problem with Smart Delivery on discs would eventually disappear after the Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S versions became the preferred choice to press on disc.
Back to Gran Turismo 7 though, and Xbox doesn't really suffer the same problems as the outages we've seen on PlayStation's end here. The game's biggest competitor, Forza Horizon 5, is still totally playable offline if the servers go down, so Microsoft definitely has an advantage in that category. That said, both companies are conjuring up plenty of discussion about "always-online" games and features, and both clearly still have some work to do in different ways.
What are your thoughts on all of this? Let us know down in the comments section below.
Comments 38
Any game that requires online to play single player = instant skip.
I'm honestly concerned that GT7's approach regarding online only and microtransactions will be how the Forza Motorsport reboot ends up.
@Medic_Alert
Digital is fine. Day 1 patches are ok because it's not right now that game preservation matters. You can keep your saves files and games with patches downloaded when the time comes.
But itâs a problem thatâs easily solved - donât make your games require an internet connection to play them, especially when they are single player titles.
This is what the future is for those that love XCloud and think it's the "future". Might be the future for some of here, but it won't be mine. It's also an example how games will be if services become the main way to play games (aka grindier games to maintain people subbed).
New games won't be my hobby if that becomes the main way to play.
@Medic_Alert I agree. I've got a massive physical collection of movies and TV shows (over a thousand titles), but about half a dozen physical Xbox games. Even then those were ones that were really cheap second hand.
With physical movies what you buy is what you get, and there's no "Live Services" (well there was the short lived Blu Ray Live) to worry about. It means that I'm going to have to re-buy the Godfather trilogy if I want the new 4K re-masters, but they're mine to keep.
Earlier this year Paramount decided to remove Star Trek Discovery (and some of the other series in the US) from Netflix but there was no other platform that has them to stream, but my discs were still ok.
@Medic_Alert It doesn't help either that games keep getting larger in general so they won't fit on physical media. In 10 years, games will be hundreds of GBs large and will most likely not see physical releases. Even downloads will be troublesome as you'd have to spend so much time downloading only one game. Cloud is the solution to all of this, which is why I'm so glad that Microsoft is ahead of the competition in this regard. We're simply headed to an online-only future with games whether people like it or not.
@LtSarge Hundreds of GBs seems like a stretch, especially with SSD reducing file sizes and diminishing returns in graphics. GTA5 is still larger than most AAA games. If you have good internet for cloud gaming, your downloads won't take that long. Especially with pre-downloading.
You might be right... with multiplayer games, but single player gamers don't get finessed like multiplayer dude bros and I think this online-only future won't work for them.
Games being down because of maintenance is nothing new. They needed better communication through their social media outlets and an in game message up for a few days before. Gaming is just entertainment for me. Canât play one game I got a few hundred to choose from. Internet is out I got other things to do like read or play music. Big uproar over something that should be so minuscule in our lives. Everything canât cater to everyone and people should probably accept that instead of stressing about it. Good discussion to have but I donât see it ever changing
@Halucigens It's not miniscule for some. Gaming is the hobby I spent most time with.
I hope that Turn 10 is watching also. They know now which mistakes they don't have to make.
@RevGaming Me too. Tons of other games to play and tons of other things to do though. Donât buy the games that have the content you donât want. Jumping between discussion boards and social media and piling on complaints is not healthy. Just my thoughts on it. I donât support it but I love online gaming so I can play with my friends around the world because I took a job where I know a handful of people in the state.
I don't think it would have been as big of a deal if the price wasn't as high and the patch that just came out. Most reasonable people understand games are different today and patches have a tendency to have issues. Games like GT7 have a singleplayer that ties into multiplayer so it makes sense you can't have people jump in and out of connection.
It's the other two issues that broke this camel's back. Breaking a game for 24 hours is bad but doing it to push microtransactions is unacceptable. Also don't charge $70 for game and break it within the first month. Just look at how Outriders was different. Only $15 on Gamepass and they worked their bums off to fix online issues from the get go. They didn't charge $70, wait for good reviews, and then start tinkering.
@Halucigens I disagree. Complaining is the only way products providers learn how to do better.
@Grumblevolcano after FM5 at the Xbox one launch I'd hope turn 10 has learnt its lessonđ This is basically the rubbish they pulled and it didn't go well.
It's a shame as I was enjoying GT7 until I couldn't play it and this all happened. I feel tricked and ripped off
This is the exact reason I had to leave Sea of Thieves. Despite my intense adoration of the game, mechanics, atmosphere and art-style. They would rather have a box cost plus live service with in-game store to make all them bucks. Total shame. I love the game. Love the quest-design. Can't stand it being online only and full of trolls just so I can have an 'authentic' pirate experience.
The online-always portion of GT7 is the exact reason I went with Forza instead.
I get the live-service games like Overwatch and Rocket League being this way. But if the game has a single player component AND an always online 'feature'... thanks, but no thanks.
Now would be a good time to announce a new Forza Motorsport.
No single player game should require an online connection to play and specifically for Xbox we should be able to buy Series X games on disc. As good as smart delivery is, I have no desire to ever put a Series X game into an Xbox One
A wise* man once said - you want a offline console buy a 360âŚâŚ..
He might not have been that wise
@Medic_Alert Its so refreshing to hear someone else saying this, ive been making these same points for some time and agree with what you are saying entirely.
Yeah it's amazing how badly they screwed up GT7 with that requirement. I waited 9 years for a new GT game, and when it finally releases it's a massive disappointment due to some competitive online gaming focused requirements.
It seems bizarre to me how they took a series that so many fans loved for it's single player experience and completely ruined that experience for all those people. This entire thing just made me appreciate Forza that much more.
It also made me glad that I never bought a PS5, as GT7 was my entire reason for wanting one initially. This whole thing has turned me off the Sony PS brand more than ever.
The patch that caused this was off to a bad start as it nerfed the credits you earned from a few races folks were grinding so that they could have the money to buy the cars they wanted. Then 30 odd hour downtime on top of that with pretty much zero communication the entire time.
Just to note you could still play the game in a limited fashion but no campaign mode and obviously no multiplayer. Anything you won or achieved wouldn't carry over to your "live" game.
The tone deaf PR apology they eventually posted didn't help either. Lot of angry and frustrated folks over in GT7 land.
The sad thing is the actual racing especially multiplayer dailies is really really fun and could be a huge win but PD / Sony seem intent on snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
@carlos82 This is a good point. You know that if you buy an Xbox game itâs always the Xbox One version on the actual disc, meaning Series X users will then have to download it anyway. Thatâs fine if you have a good internet connection, but for those that havenât it will probably just persuade them to go digital - at least they can then preload it in advance.
@Medic_Alert I'd still say that buying physical copies for games on PS5 is still worthwhile even if there are day 1 updates and added modes. I bought Horizon Forbidden West and was able to install the whole game on day 1 except for the patch, which given their really good compression, was small (unlike a lot of them on Xbox unfortunately). That's a near 90 GB game that I had installed in less than 45 minutes. Almost all Sony exclusives are like that where the whole day 1 game is on the disc.
@InterceptorAlpha Seriously. Modern gaming is frustrating. It's a flash in a pan. A lot of these games will not work, when they become "retro" even if you have the physical disc.
I'm ok with always online if the game ALSO has the option to play offline, forever and ever, if you want to. Such as servers are shut off.
What's big deal then? Not like you can go online then with mods, etc to ruin game for others.
No single player component of a game should ever require an always online connection, by all means for the mp/co-op component and it should stop there no excuse.
Over @ PushSquare people are defending this ***** including the disgusting and egregious MTX in GT7 by using false equivalence and whataboutism, I can actually see a few of the people from there here đ.
While I absolutely agree that SP should never require you to be online, everyone seems to have forgotten that the reason why GTSport and GT7 do this is because all of their leaderboards and rule sets are governed by the real world FIA.
Sony got incredibly greedy with GT7, I heard that recently not only did they ignore fans pleas to cut out the in app purchases, but they increased the prices of those in app purchases! Not a good look for an excellent game, Jim Ryan is a ruthless clueless business man who doesnât care about his customer base in the slightest. Total opposite to Phil Spencer IMO.
Last time I checked buying any game on any device is optional. So, if you don't want to buy a game that requires online, you don't have to.
I see both sides to the story and both are right from their perspective. Personally, my homes are all hooked up to high speed Internet so I don't care. Also, with offline, there is a lot of potential to hack and cheat trophies/achievements devaluing them for people who earn them legitimately.
But, I do understand that I am on the fortunate side of things and there are people that cannot get stable high speed internet, afford high speed Internet, are careful about potential surveillance, or just choose not to.
Both should have the ability to play games.
@NeoRatt You seriously trying to make the argument that every game should be always online because games being playable offline might "devalue trophies/achievements from people who earn them?"
I mean out of all the arguments I have heard trying to defend this, that has gotta be the worst.
Modern_Vintage_Gamer on YouTube just did a GT7 video in which he alludes to the always-online nature of the game possibly being related to car manufacturer licenses expiring after so many years (see MS delisting Forza Motorsport 7 last year, and only being available to purchase via disc version). Possibly, always-online & DRM may be the way things will be going forward. Once those contracts expire, I'd imagine Sony/PD, for example, turning off those servers, and this game won't be playable at all (other than music rallyđ). The days of buying a game and being able to play it wherever & whenever you want may eventually be a thing of the past, unless people push back against it.
If FM8 actually doesn't force always-online on people, huge kudos to them, and I will also be shocked/surprised. I think this GT7 fiasco would have been a good time to distance themselves â or even troll SONY, the way Grid Legends did â by letting people know they aren't going this route. But I'm worried always-online is the trend going forward...
@JayJ
So, you get to decide what is important to any individual gamer? You get to decide what is a good argument vs. a bad argument?
For many gamers trophies/achievements are a big thing, and they are only valuable when gamers know that they cannot be cheated. Especially difficult to get achievements and trophies. Personally, when I see a more difficult achievement/trophy and I read online it can be cheated I am less likely to try and get it. But, if people are talking about how difficult it was to get I am more determined if I want to get that particular one. It is well known that one of the best ways to cheat trophies/achievements is to use the offline mode of the console.
I am not making an argument that online is required. But, I am saying that requiring online makes it more difficult to cheat the trophies/achievements. As I stated in my OP, both sides of the fence need to be happy with the system. But, I will also restate that buying games are fully optional purchases and that the there are many options for high speed internet now. We are not just limited to land based lines anymore. Gamers can speak with their spending on games like GT7. I don't think GT7 sales are being depressed because of the online requirement.
@NeoRatt Well I just think it's asinine to imply that people should be dismissive of always-online requirements in single player experiences just because there's some people who take their gaming way too seriously. This is supposed to be entertainment, lot a life goal to put on your resume.
@JayJ
Personally, I don't see that as taking gaming too seriously. In sports like football, rugby, baseball, cricket, hockey, etc there are rules. If rules are broken there is consequences to the teams that break them. It is the same with achievements/trophies. They should be gotten legitimately for those that care to get them.
Don't get me wrong. I am all for single player modes and offline play, but the console makers have to make sure that everyone is looked after not just the "offline" or "online" people.
I find it ridiculous that they cannot come up with a way to ensure trophies/achievements were gotten fairly while offline. I also think it is ridiculous that I have to be online for my game to work.
@NeoRatt I think you need to get over this notion of somehow being able to control how everyone goes about things. I mean if people cheat, that's all on them. It's not like there's any shortage of cheaters/hackers online anyways.
@JayJ
Same could be said for people insisting to have games that have pure offline modes. If people choose only games that work offline that is on them. They will be missing out not me.
I still think this is not properly resolved in the games industry. There has to be a better way where both online and offline advocates can both win.
paying 70$ a game as live service, the crew,the division 1+2,battlefront,gran turismo 7 play them couples weeks and never go back until you want to and realize that 10-20 year from now servers are down or full price live service game with expansive microtransaction is scummy.
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