Yep, Xbox Just Took Another Playful Jab At The PS5's Removable Stand

Wow Microsoft really are sore about last gens whooping

Lol that's pretty good

If there's one thing Xbox has been excelling at compared to PlayStation in terms of next generation consoles, it's simplicity.

Good stuff!

@Valhalla91 I think it’s more I regards to the game sharing video less the entire gen. That video has haunted them for years even though the context with it had to do with DRM, so it’s nonsense now but at the time.

@mousieone I get that but this is like the 3rd 4th time the last 30 days? Must still be haunting them.

I hope for xbox they sell more Consoles this gen otherwise this will be an embarrassment in the end

Everything seems simpler and more user-friendly on Xbox.

Guys, is it me or does the PS5 look absolutely huge (more than in the photos) in the video? Honestly.

https://youtu.be/CaAY-jAjm0w?t=21

@Valhalla91 i don't think it's that serious to anyone but the "fans". i think they're just having fun, just like Sony was in 2013...

And yet the Xbox seems to have no rubber feet on the "side" for horizontal placement.....

What do you think about the tear-down? Liquid metal confirmed LOL, quite unusual cooling system.

@armondo36 yeah it's not as deep as people make things out to be. Just a little innocent jabbing between companies. I actually prefer it vs the corporate stiff way of going about things. Makes em seem a bit more personable imo.

@Olliemar28 seems like a weird scenario to conjure up, why not just take care of your $500 stuff and you wouldn't have to worry lol

@Menchi Yes they do. Take a better look at the pics or vids. 😉

@Valhalla91 meh I don’t know think it’s all in good fun as long as as it stays light everyone needs a good smile right now anyway. This is the one of things we’ve had to look forward to after Covid Canceled the world ._.

@Menchi yes it does o.O https://youtu.be/DufdZTfsa_I. 4:00 mark there are four feet or “bumps”.

@Olliemar28 ha yeah I hear ya. I've bought and sold many an Ebay console over the years and I've seen some uhhh "unique" things as well!

@mousieone "after covid cancelled the world".

True.

I'm just happy Sony invested so much on the machine's cooling. Hopefully jet-engines will be a thing of the past.

At least we are all having a bit of much needed fun today.
At one point the PS5 looked wider than the guys shoulders.

@BlueOcean the PS5 teardown honestly looks good. It's well designed hardware, which is unusual for Sony, IMO. Some things are crazy overdesigned. The heatsink is overkill but that's never a bad thing. And if what some over on PS (the industry guys, not the nobodies ) are saying, it's designed to run in OC mode basically always.....and that heatsink seems to validate that. It'll be interesting. PS5 in that high clock mode most of the time, vs XSeX with more CUs. It's conceivable that XSeX handles 4k native better and PS5 has more visual effects going on but running checkerboard.

@redd214 Now I'm curious what these "unique" things are

Wow - the salty comments from Sony fanboys...

I think its funny - and as stated, Playful. Having a Jab would be comparing the two side by side, the time and 'effort' required to swap from Vertical to Horizontal (or vice versa), how easy/difficult expanding the storage is side by side, Showing the 'small' die APU and space all around it vs the much larger Die APU and more densely packed board and then compare the sheer size of the consoles. Small APU, very Large console vs Large APU and Small console - ANY of those would be taking a dig rather than some playful banter...

Some people have NO humour at all!!! (inc Sammy from PushSquare too it seems!! LOL)

Oh - and what do I think about Sony's Stand?

Well first off, its cool that its supplied, works for both Horizontal and vertical arrangements and looks designed to keep everything together - not going to have to go looking for the screw or plug if you change your mind about you want to set it up.

I am a little disappointed that the Series X stand cannot be removed but I do think that is a 'design choice'. Whilst it cannot be removed, its also preventing people from not using it in the vertical alignment and limiting the amount of Air that can be drawn in. On its side, it also stops people from pushing it up too close and blocking the air intake holes.

@Menchi

Best image I can find that shows two rubber feet on the side for horizontal placement...

They are subtle...

@NEStalgia But according to developers it's impossible to overclock both GPU and CPU on PS5. It seems that there is a reciprocated dependence bottleneck in PS5. Digital Foundry videos are going to be more interesting than ever come November and will clear all these doubts.

@Menchi Series S and X both have rubber feet in the horizontal position. The XB Taiwan "skyscraper" meme gif shows flat oval feet on the bottom of S. There's a video on that XB Tik Tok feed that shows Series X briefly from the side and there's little round "half ball" type rubber feet on that side of X, so there's no issue there.

@BlueOcean Amidst the horrid morass of Push Square, there's two or 3 users that are very informative and interesting, both industry guys, both very PS biased, but at least professionally so. One or both are grizzled veterans that have been around the block a few times...folks who have worked on games we know - not indies, major 1st and third party stuff. Their perspective is interesting in that, from their view, the industry is all about PS5 right now, and not in a small way, and there are aspects of the PS5 design the industry seems to feel make it superior in general. Doesn't mean it is true, but right now it does sound like the industry echo chamber at least in their, probably PS-centric corners of it indicate that, and that the corporate viewpoints are that PS5 will massively outsell XSeX and therefore the big studios are treating it as the lead console, and will probably optimize for it better. Doesn't mean that will last or that it's 100% true, but it's interesting food for thought. (That said, even if a game runs better on a PS5 there's still the little problem that they treat your purchase as disposable and MS doesn't....... )

But in the one conversation the one has been pointing out that the PS5 is supposedly designed to run in that overclock mode basically permanently. And with that cooling system in place, I think it confirms he's been correct. I did ask him about the Smartshift impact, and his present view is that what he's seen, the thresholds are near peak anyway and it shouldn't be much of an issue. We'll obviously have to see when these are out in the wild and DF and the like are doing tests, but that's also software dependent, and as he also said, it will be some years before we even know where those limits are, because nothing currently pushes against the

@Ricoche @mousieone @BAMozzy Thanks guys, I was looking on my phone so I missed them.

m.

My viewpoint, comparing the hardware, still is that the XSeX has the edge in native 4k, by far, with the bigger GPU, but that PS5 is targeting max vfx at 1440/checkerboard. If the scaling to 4k is as good as DF has been suggesting in both consoles, that could become the standard on both, nudging the edge from XSeX's strong suit a little. Now in practice is where it gets interseting and will vary by game. If PS5 remains the lead console, games will assume brute forcing the memory use as the normal and may not take care implementing MS's APIs for reduced usage. That would give PS5 the edge. If we assume it's correct that PS5 runs OC'd most of the time (for now we can assume that until it's proven wrong) we'll have to see how most games actually use the additional CUs versus the faster CUs. IMO that still gives XSeX the edge - IF - a game optimizes for it. Optimization may come down to studio preference and/or if MS intends to lend help and/or if they can automate the use of some of those features which seems to be a focus for them.

It'll be interesting. It may not be as clear cut as X1X was. I think different games/studios may favor optimizing for one or the other so that one platform isn't automatically "the best place to play."

The one thing that concerns and excites me is that if it works out true that PS5 massively outsells it means XSeX may perform worse for a number of big games even if it shouldn't due to studios leading with PS5 in design. It also means that consumers are morons and like to be abused because they prefer one name over another. It also means XBox will definitely be the better place to actually play games even if they perform worse, because as I've said often, I want MS to "lose" - they are at their best when they are behind and bending over backwards to offer value

@BAMozzy Also, remember the Sony fanboys that are upset at this, are the same ones that praised the "how to share games on PS4" video.

Funny you mention Sammy, if you look around the internet, he's known as "Samage Control" for the massive amount of mental gymnastics and damage control he does in Sony's favour (not my words/opinion).

@redd214 LOL....that's pure madness. The bugs, ok, that's normal enough to find inside enclosed spaces......I'm not sure how the other things even end up in a console, though.... Terrifying...interesting....and I'm now somewhat concerned about that used console I got.

@Menchi @BAMozzy I used to think Sammy was bad. His presentation of most things is over the top in horrid ways. But he's actually showed recently he can be critical too. Fanboy maybe, but he's actually not as bad a zealot as Liam and Robert, actually. The whole presentation there is a bit questionable though....I get that it's a fan site, but NL and PXB both come across as a platform-focused magazine site, while PS comes across as a pure fan site like a PS subreddit.

@NEStalgia It's the Sony mindset. However I will say there was an article over there the other day where (I think it was Sammy) tried to damage control Spiderman remastered "IT'S A TRUE GENERATIONAL LEAP!!!" and practically every single comment was having none of him.

Funny jab but you shouldn't have to be messing about with screw-drivers just to put the thing on it's side.

@Menchi "GENRATIONAL LEAP!!!1" was Liam Sammy in the comments posted something more "positive but not bombastic" IIRC.

@blinx01 To be fair, PS3 Phat and PS4 Pro had the screw solution, so it's sticking with what they have been doing for decades. The screw isn't strictly necessary on the Pro, but it's ideal to keep it secured so it doesn't fall off. You COULD use it without the screw, but I wouldn't wholly trust it.

@NEStalgia l really have a difficult time believing that when developers say that there are different CPU profiles depending on how much power the PS5 GPU is using but just one month to go and read Digital Foundry's findings.

@Menchi @NEStalgia Push Square always find a way to blame Microsoft, e.g., criticising Game Pass in ridiculous ways, for everything but the excuses they find for Sony are so cringe worthy that, honestly, I'm surprised they're not ashamed of themselves. The poor and sensationalist writing doesn't help.

@BlueOcean I suppose it depends on exactly what those profiles are. The individuals commenting either have some access to a PS5 dev kit, or at least have been following the relevant information as part of their job, so it's not empty commentary. That said, if their job currently has them on PS related work, they're going to be only following "from the outside" and internal company comments about XB, while devs focused on XB projects are going to have a different perspective.

@NEStalgia Actually, I mean PS5 developers with the PS5 development kits that have posted the CPU/GPU profiles for normal PS5 games (not the PS4/Pro profiles).

@BlueOcean Again, I'm not sure if these commenters have one yet or not. They do have inside information and access to said information (not at Sony, at third parties.) But I believe one mentioned he was still waiting for the kit. The other may indeed have one. Again they're not nobodies, they seem to be working in the big leagues, so there are kits around them even if they're not assigned one and they're required to know what they're doing with one. Definitely people worth listening to. It doesn't mean they're 100% knowledgeable about every good and bad of both systems and can't be proven wrong about some aspects, but they're people that seem very industry connected, in the big leagues, and know a thing or two about what they're doing. If they're highlighting places they feel PS is pulling ahead, there's good reason to believe it's a valid point, even if benchmarks end up disproving it. Indeed they're PS fans, but I liken their position more to Apple developers that can't stand developing for Android or Windows because with the way they use the toolsets, they simply have superior advantages. I may not agree with that point, but I see where, professionally, it would come from.

@BlueOcean It does look huge, It looks like it could've killed the poor fella if it tipped over..

@Bmartin001 Indeed 😂.

They’re sending mixed messaging with Xbox US portraying a “we don’t like console wars” type message, while Xbox UK are flaming said console wars...

i've tried and tried to "warm up to" the design of the PS5.

that thing is freakin' HIDEOUS lol. they're going to sell 110 million of them, but damn that thing is SO ugly, i'm sorry. i want to see the designs that they rejected in favor of this monstrosity...

@NEStalgia maybe you should find yourself a different PS site if it grates on you that much.

Personally I like the trifecta of NL, PS and PX. All fan sites so you got to expect a certain level of loyalty the the brand they’re representing.

@Menchi No prob. 👍🏾🙂

@NEStalgia I don't have an issue with Sammy at all and know that he can be critical too of Sony but I also find the 'general' topics tend to be heavily biased, sometimes very hypocritical, click bate, ridiculous amount of posts generated for a 'single' topic to get more 'clicks', basically ignore what MS is doing - unless they can use it for more clicks, to anger more PS fans etc...

Take a simple thing like the PS5 controller - how many articles are needed about that or the PS5 teardown? If Phil Spencer says something positive about Sony or their games (as he has) - nothing, yet say something about games coming to both generations and that being 'more' consumer friendly, an article attacking Phil's perspective because at the time, it was believed Sony's perspective was a 'clean' break...

Trying to argue that what Insomniac are doing with Spider-Man is somehow 'more' than what the Coalition have done with Gears 5 for 'free', considering its still more than games like God of War 3, Last of Us etc remastered offered.

PushSquare isn't an unbiased magazine gaming site that happens to be dedicated to Playstation - its more of a Fanboy website geared towards clickbait, clicks and promoting hostility between gamers specifically on their most 'direct' competition. Heavily critical of MS games being on PC - yet most of the third party exclusives they kept going on about were on PC (Nier, Nioh etc) and even have started releasing first party games on PC too (Horizon).

Its that hypocritical viewpoint and ridiculous number of articles generated over something that could all be done in one. 6 Articles today about the Teardown - all of which offered NOTHING more than the 1st video told us. Another 5+ articles tomorrow to be generated from something the teardown video told us - one about confirmation of the CPU and max speed, one about the GPU, SSD, Expansion compartment and RAM blocks??

Its a Joke!! I miss OPM!!

It wasn't so bad but in recent months its gotten really bad and gone from being a 'Magazine' dedicated to Playstation to a Fanboys Playstation website...

@BAMozzy Agreed all the way around. Although I expect that to happen here, too as it gets more populated. It's something that has been on and off part of NL as well. I like Ant, personally, but it seems to be a hallmark of how he runs his sites. I can't speak for whatever business he needs to do to keep revenues flowing and keep the sites running, and I can appreciate the Faustian bargains involved in doing so from experience. But I do wish he'd try to keep the standards less "The Mirror" influenced. It's not a good look, though I predicted in the past it would lead to a traffic drop and so far has, seemingly, not. I guess I'm not much of a New Media wonk....not that that's news to me. Eventually new writers and editors will appear here, and will start splitting 8 articles from one and inciting flame wars. Just wait....

@eggsbox PS is about as reasonable as Kotaku. I like NL and PXB, with PXB benefitting by being underpopulated and new. NL dips into The Mirror level postings at times, but PS really jumps into a whole new level of rabid fanboyism. It's not without it's merits, including Sammy, and I appreciate what they're trying to do in terms of being a "fan" site rather than a PS-focused eZine. But I'm not sure it fits with the eZine aesthetic if it's just a fan praise site, mostly. I avoided that portion of the site entirely for years until recently. It's both better and worse than what I previously saw from the outside, in different areas. Fan site or not, it doesn't really work when a place is just an echobox of praise. Particularly when it makes The Mirror look tame with it's sensationalized headlines and giant stretches of meaning non-stop.

@Thretosix Yes.

At least Sony got the storage expansion slot sorted out correctly just a normal m.2 slot which is nice and so easy to open up to clean the fan, learn from this Microsoft learn !

Wait until Push Square finds out. They're gonna go ballistic on this one.

This comments section is hilarious. To be called a zealot when I already have an Xbox One and have an Xbox Series X pre-ordered loolll

@Menchi it actually does.

@NEStalgia I'm not saying that they haven't said what you wrote or that they are not experts, I'm saying that it's difficult to believe that the PS5 CPU and GPU can stay overclocked at the same time when independent developers with the development kits say that it doesn't work like that and it contradicts what Mark Cerny said. Besides, I've watched Digital Foundry's video of Spider-Man and the limitations of PS5 CPU/GPU are quite evident. As I said, one month to go until PS5 CPU/GPU is analysed by independent experts like Digital Foundry but it's a bit too early to assume that the most positive possible scenario will be true. It's more logical to think, though, that if the PS5 CPU and GPU were able to run overclocked at the same time, Sony would have used fixed frequencies like Microsoft did instead of throttling.

https://youtu.be/crjbA-_SoFg

@LiamCroft Both as a lurker and as a participant, I've always been put off by the very sensationalist nature over there, and i commented to sammy that I was impressed, considering that, at his criticisms where due, the other week. Perceived or not, highlighted by the "generational leap" headline and plenty of others, I've indeed noticed Sammy has taken on a somewhat more balanced editorial tone, while you and Robert have maintained a "cheerleader" stance. And it's clear others feel the same. We can't tell you you're doing it "wrong", we don't know your metrics or what demo you have to appeal to. And that Sammys opinion has recently often been similar to mine, while the fan base over there keeps trying to rip him apart for it may mean you have it right for the demo over there. Doesnt mean we so like that demographics view overall though. It's not a personal knock, a much as an opinion on both a visible part of the ps community, and it's editorial leaning. Is also a subject I'd discussed years ago in an nl thread with the nl family of sites in general when Ant was soliciting feedback. Not directed at ps but at nls direction at the time. Nl has reigned in the sensationalism and argument stirring since then to a degree. Not sure if that was ants doing it Damiens choice.

Point is, yes the community there is particularly "fanboyish", not everyone of course, but it's a pervasive element. And you and Robert definitely lean hard into that element, wherever it's a personal leaning or a professional necessity, i can't say. Sammy has seemed to moderate his tone, and it's very welcome to see, if it persists... But the community may not let it. It is what it is. But like it or not, agree or not, it's not an uncommon assessment of the tone there in any way. Maybe that's intentional, maybe it isn't. But outside the site itself, that's a pretty common opinion of it.

For my part I've joined in, for now, after years of avoiding it, for that reason and am focusing on the better elements of the community and have been heartened by some of the staff articles and comments that resonate. Admittedly, those have been coming exclusively from Sammy.

On a note that is personal, though, given that, I'm beyond stunned and shocked that you're actually an x1 owner and XSeX buyer! You do come across as extremely brand loyal in your articles, so I'm stunned and pleased to hear that. It also makes me think the impression of bias in writing is more professional than personal. Didn't make it easier to read, but it's comforting to know

@BlueOcean agreed overall, but the nature of that heatsink lebds validity to that notion. The throttling tech is AMDs, not Sony's, so it's more general purpose in nature. It throttles but that does assume max utilization of both components being necessary. Strictly speaking how many pc games currently stress the ryzen zen2 architecture at all? It's conceivable with that kind of cooling solution and the idea the cpu is rarely maxed, the system is designed to maintain the oc for long durations.

That may or may not verify. But if for now we assume that can be true it leads to other questions. Why would they chose what must be 4 or more pounds of copper in a heat pipe? That can't be cheap but should be inferior to a vapor design. They say equivalence, but still.. It's an odd choice.

And then even if it's in constant oc, the large gap in cores still leaves a big gap in total shaders. Especially at 4k, but even at 1440. Or doesn't seem to be a huge advantage. But if the industry thinks it is, they'll still lean hard into optimizing it versus x, which is the big takeaway. The guys at worst hear the scuttlebutt and that's where it is at least in their corner. That's a definite consideration of value.

I agree with you overall, though. I'm not convinced. But they raise very valid points that can't be discarded, particularly with a first it second hand view we don't have.

@LexVVTi Ended the Xbox's career? You do understand that while the Xbox may have been outsold a good bit, it still sold a metric ton of consoles, right?

And what's to be butt hurt over with that? Showing PS5 game play only reassures people the Xbox version looks better because, you know, better hardware.

That's like seeing a video sponsored by Nvidia on a lower tier GPU than what I have, then me getting butthurt for them being sponsored by Nvidia despite knowing my AMD GPU will blow the model out of the water in performance.

@LexVVTi Oh. You're one of those. Blocked.

My two cents on this is MS are taking things a bit too far because it’s not actually that amusing. Yes have a dig at Spider-Man is funny because of the uproar - just like MS fans went crazy when Xbox tried to block used games. We were all in it together both these times.
But now MS are trying to dig at everything they can think of. No Sony “fan boy” dislikes the design really. Its perfectly fine. Not great, not terrible. Same with the stand option. They aren’t seen as bad - so it makes no sense to criticise it? Next video will be some piss take about it being white. MS fan boys will type “hilarious”, Sony fan boys will reply with “I don’t get it?”, MS fan boys will type “Salty Sony fan boys”.
Guess I’m one of those salty fan boys that just doesn’t get it, although I think the same about the S video looking like an intercom speaker. It’s just not funny really because there’s nothing wrong with that design either?

@LexVVTi I didn’t know MS used ps5 gameplay footage. What games did they use?

@LexVVTi you do come across very fan boy esq... I do think you’re right with the power of the Xbox console not meaning it will automatically have the best games. It’s a good start but there is a lot more to it. Simply put the switch is extremely low power but BOTW still the best game from last gen IMO.

@LexVVTi So the Sony Pony fanboy has now come onto an Xbox site and acting all butthurt...

Let alone being ignorant, unknowledgeable and quite literally ridiculous, you have come on to an Xbox centred site and done exactly the same as ALL the other Sony Pony Fanboys and proved exactly how 'salty' they are...

In EVERY case, the more shaders, the more 'powerful' a GPU in the exact same architecture, the better games have looked and run with a similar GPU. All the speed of Data in the world doesn't matter if the GPU is more limited on Shaders and Texture Mapping Units. Maybe that's why Demon Souls is only 1440p??

As for using games captured on other consoles or PC, that has been common place for ever - Sony have used Xbox footage in the past - even tried to photoshop out the Xbox Controller controls on screen - its 'Stock' footage to advertise the game NOT the console. If that 'stock' footage happens to be on the other console because of marketing deals, then so what? Its about selling the game!

You need to grow up and stop being such a butthurt Sony Fanboy. Yes that Sharing thing from 7yrs ago was Funny too but even by the time XB1 launched, game sharing on XB1 was exactly the same so irrelevant. Ignorant Sony fanboys think MS are 'hurting' over that - Grow Up!!! and now your hurting over Xbox showing how to go from Vertical to Horizontal...

Incidentally, I own both Xbox and Playstation console and owned every generation of BOTH and will own Both next gen too but its people like you that give gamers a bad name!!

@NEStalgia I don't think that developers will optimise games for PS5. Normally, the best-performing version this generation has been Xbox One X, not because it's the most popular but because it's an easy to develop for Windows machine. Developers will probably target high-end PC and scale down accordingly for Series X, PS5 and Series S. The only developers that will try to do something unique on PS5 will be first-party. The important thing here is that even overclocked, PS5 is still less powerful than Series X.

Will Sony create something really special that stands out for the fewer and overclocked CUs and the faster SSD? Time will tell but I haven't seen anything yet. Demon's Souls at 1440p and Spider-Man lacking detailed ray tracing are not impressing much. I just watched this video again with subtitles and the man was careful to say CPU up to 3.5GHz and GPU up to 2.23GHz.

The heatsink is huge as you said so it's safe to say that the cooling solution is oversized if not top-notch as Series X which uses vapour cooling like high-end GPUs and Xbox One X. The liquid metal in PS5 is an unusual solution, I wonder if it's safe in the long term.

I think that Sony designed the PS5 trying to keep costs down because of the expensive SSD and the main idea behind this design is oversizing fan and heatsink in order to avoid the PS4 noise and heat issues. The form might be unconventional but the approach is quite conventional.

I just realised that the end of the video shows a disclaimer, "The dust catcher does not guarantee the hardware clogging from dust" 😂.

I think it’s hilarious what Microsoft has been doing with their tweets. It’s all in good fun. It’s only the Ponies who get their panties in a bunch about it.

Sensitive little fanboys getting all riled up over a tweet.

@LiamCroft

Well you write clickbait, biased articles on a PlayStation website & come over to an Xbox website & expect anything different?

Now THAT is hilarious.

@BlueOcean It depends on industry perception and, eventually, sales data. Generally developers optimize for whatever the largest selling console is unless there's a technological reason to do it. I mean, technically they optimize for all consoles, but if they're going to lead with one to take in house or with the main team and farm the other one out to another team or third party, they'll keep the one with the larger install base as lead. 360 was lead 7th gen. PS3 sold poorly most of the gen, and was uniquely difficult to optimize for, and required an entirely different design from PC/XB if it was lead. PS4 was lead 8th gen, not X1X, because it was the largest install base by a fair margin. If they expect PS5 is outselling XSeX several to one, as it sounds like they currently do in the board rooms due to the analyst projection (read: Patcher and Patcher-alikes) they feel that is, and those guys weren't predicting that PS5 was going to be the lead development console for that reason, they were confirming that's already the company position at Ubi and I believe EA (they did not confirm which companies they're currently working for, but are hearing the feedback in their own firms, whatever ones they may be, and from colleagues, some of them are inside MS and Sony studios, some at major 3p etc.)

Nothing about that aspect surprises me, and It's fair to trust them on their word at that. It doesn't mean PS5 will actually outsell at that ratio, and that studios will continue targeting it first all gen. That means they're doing so right now, because analysts (like Patcher) are telling them that's how it will bear out, now.

Regardless of power, they also have a fair point about the toolkits. It sounds like Sony's is straight forward, and things like what @BAMozzy was talking about last week are relevant there, where the devs can just brute force everything through the fast IO on PS5, where they have to optimize with fancy APIs designed to limit data use on the XB. From a dev perspective, yeah, they're going to like the high speed brute force approach that takes less work on their part. I think what matters there is how much things like DirectML are adopted in Windows development (or not) to see how well it translates directly into XBox ports. The one trick those devs may be missing is they sound like console guys, purely (both PS and XB, different years.) They may be hearing about specifically optimizing for PS5 because the studios are really planning to straight-port Windows games to XB with relatively minor tweaks compared to the deep optimizing they're thinking about. If that's the case than how well XSeX performs may come down to how much of a direct translation a port from PC to it is, and how well that runs compared to a build optimized around PS5.

It's all theory and speculation right now, of course. But it's definitely conceivable what they're saying is true regarding PS5 as lead for now because it's a projected install base lead, and if that continues, that development would continue prioritizing it. But it's also entirely possible that the toolkits are designed in such a way that porting from Windows to XB is more or less a straight conversion with only minor tweaks required and nobody needs to build "for" XB at all. A lot of that is going to depend on what happens in the Windows space going forward.

@NEStalgia you talk about 'install' base but the PS5 is ZERO right now and could well sell more than Series S/X BUT 'Xbox' isn't JUST the console anymore and hasn't been for a few years now. Microsoft Studio's does not 'exist' - they are ALL Xbox Studio's and Xbox is ALL of Microsofts gaming division - that INCLUDES the PC and Cloud gaming market too. That is a MASSIVE install base out of the gate.

Admittedly, Devs don't have to 'optimise' for PC as such. They make their games with a LOT of different setting options so customers themselves have to optimise the game to run on their particular configuration of hardware - although they do have to configure what EACH of those graphical settings do. Even simple things like Shadows for example may have LoDs attached - distances that determine maybe the 'resolution' of shadows, the point at which shadows are even rendered etc - and they may have 4 or 5 different settings to configure for each setting.

PC's too use DirectX so those 'API's' and Console features are all part of the toolkit for devs to use for their PC game development and thus should be relatively straight forward to transfer to the Console. As far as I am aware, all games start out being developed on PC - even if they have specific consoles in mind. It doesn't matter if a Console has some 'unusual' architecture not found in PC's, they will still develop on PC knowing what the end goal is. If they are 'limited' on cores/threads on a CPU or GPU, they will know what those limitations are and tailor the game through development to ensure that when it comes to porting, scheduling, assigning tasks etc that those do not exceed those limitations - and if they do go over a bit, can actually change the games design to work. For example, if their original design for the environment had some extensive views causing big frame rate drops, they can go back and put some 'obstruction' (a wall, a building, trees etc) to reduce that view.

On a multiplatform release, where they want to keep ALL the games layout and views as similar across the board, they don't want to have to put in that obstruction in one version if they can avoid it and may end up having to reduce the quality of assets used at distance (reduce LoDs), use more 2D billboards to make it look the same.

Anyway, the point is, the reason First Party games tend to work so well is because the Devs can go in and 'change' the design. Too many enemies in an area causing CPU bottlenecks, reduce them, Environment an issue, change it - no-one will know its NOT as it was originally conceived because its only on one platform. Unless its a major problem and easier to change for PC too without too much compromise to the vision, then its better to try and make the console versions work.

Xbox though is much more likely to have a bigger install base straight out of the gate as that is NOT just the console - and also all the features are part of DirectX12 - DirectX RT, DirectX ML, Direct Storage, Sampler Feedback Streaming, VRS, Mesh Shading etc etc are ALL part of DirectX 12 Ultimate and NOT limited to just the Series S/X console so a BIG incentive for Developers releasing on PC and Series S/X - as well as the big install base across both...

@LexVVTi

So you are a PlayStation fanboy with nothing better to do in his life than come to an Xbox website to troll? That’s sad & hilarious at the same time.

I guess you Ponies don’t have enough games on your PS4 to keep you busy? Luckily, us Xbox fans don’t have that problem. 👍🏻

@BAMozzy To be clear the "install base" being discussed is what the corporate board rooms at the major publishers are planning on based on the projections of analysts. Yeah, I know, analysts aren't worth their weight in lead. But Yves, Bobby, and Andrew are going to shift their billions based on it anyway....and apparently, have already done so. Of course if the tables turn and we're looking at a much bigger install base, that's different.

Also, we're talking software optimization not the XBox brand's install base (I forgot, they changed the name from MSGS to XBGS? Silly, but whatever, it's a trademark ) So it's about where the console lead development goes. xCloud (GP Cloud...whatever....it's a trademark ), and Windows are completely separate, a "third pillar" in that. The windows development is its own thing, but that's not factoring into where the console resources are diverted. Obviously PC is the "lead" in general.

I agree in general and am aware of much of the rest, and the most important part will be how all the XB DX functionality translates directly to the Windows functionality. The particular conversation with devs over on PS did have some commentary on how the popular thinking about taking the PC game and fitting it to console is more popular fallacy than anything...but I don't not know from what current experience that view extends or if it's outdated thinking based on past experience with 360 - I'm not sure what, if any involvement the individual has had with X1. 360, PS3, PS4 involvement, yes. X1, I don't know.

Both, in the conversation agreed that for early games XSX will have the advantage based on current game designs. They're thinking is based more on what will happen over years, with the expectation there's more leeway with the PS hardware once some tricks are applied.

It's hard to say at this time. What we do know is that the individuals involved are definitely "somebodies" in the industry ,but anonymously participating, we don't get more than that (one did more or less confirm being ex-Rare and involved in the Conker Reloaded or B&K N&B projects....and not liking MS's environment much at all.... Seems to be a higher-tier somebody than "costume artist #12". Seems very probable to be somebody that we've seen on stages or interviews. There's a few bits one can put together, but I'm unwilling to speculate beyond there out of respect for anonymity. His commentary is an asset to the discussion and it's worth leaving there and appreciating. )

My view, mixed with what we've heard there from the industry, though, remains that studios right now, the corporate level, believe PS5 will massively outsell XSeries. Doesn't mean it will, it means it's what the board rooms believe right now and are therefore shifting their planning to focus on PS5 first. At least for now. Yes, I realize PC and cloud and the like means MS as a company has a large footprint, but that's a separate platform, they're talking specifically about the hardware implementations, not the OS adoption or market footprint of the PC build. Considering GP Cloud, Stadia, Luna, even PS Now should be sharing the PC architecture, I think that's really the big money anyway. So from there, I think a lot of what it comes down to is by how much PS5 sales verify to outsell (or not) XSeries, and how little tuning is required to take a build from PS to XSeries and hit the market with a well optimized game, while PS5 is definitely going to require specialized optimization to keep up, versus both of them needing significant optimization, or different design techniques.

On paper I think all of us, including them, agree XSeries has the advantage based on current design. But they're thinking in terms of some of the methodologies being looked into now paying of in several years. But I also think that varies depending on the ease of just build and go from PC on Series.

@LexVVTi

Yes I am here too. I own an Xbox & am a fan of Xbox. You don’t see me over on a PlayStation website wasting my time trolling like you are here. Pathetic.

And yes, I will bring up games. Microsoft hasn’t had a hit since Gears on the 360 eh? Are you high? Clearly, you have no idea what you are talking about & know nothing about Xbox.

And if you have all those great games to play on PS4, what are you doing on this website? Oh maybe because the only games Sony makes are one & done, single player 3rd person, action/adventure games with little to no replay value & crap multiplayer or no multiplayer at all.

At any rate, I’ll just hit that “ignore” button as arguing with you is like arguing with a 4 year old. 😂 👋

These were funny at first but now they are just a bit boring. The fact that this is even news just shows there's not much else going on...

I mean there's revenge which they did well with the first couple but now they look like they are sat watching Sony's feeds.

Post more gameplay videos and less shade MS!