@Banjo- Exactly, like nobody would object to an ff dark action subseries. And traditional series is far from dead, and a fresh square IP to complete with from soft and dragons dogma would be welcome. I just can't imagine why they went with totally upending the main series like that. Then again they already did that with 2 mmos so they were broken long ago.
"Xv isn't dark" idk, it gets pretty dark and then everyone dies 😂. But I know what you mean it was the usual ff flare if whimsy and depressing all at once rather than game of thrones grim dark and fountains of blood.
I do think, unfortunately, that using the ff name brings more sales than a new IP, at least at first. It's also popular that a spinoff or new IP can end up being bigger than the original IP (persona/smt) but considering they liquidated half the company to get out of the red they were probably more concerned with today than tomorrow. Short term they get more people buying in because it's a famous name. Long term they could have had 2 famous ips rather than just replacing one with another and calling it the same.
@NEStalgia I agree, especially with the last part. FF is not about happy stories but the stories are deep and well crafted and don't throw impactful moments in your face out of the blue like other developers do but rather build the story throughout the game and that's why I can relate to it. I haven't played them all but X, for instance, starts like I couldn't care less about what I'm seeing on the screen and by the end of the game I'm totally trapped and affected. XVI, I think, starts already dark, discarding the whimsy and beauty of other titles like VII or X.
@Banjo- From the pr stuff it does have beautiful environments later on but yeah it doesn't look like it has the trademark whimsy to balance it, just pure HBO. I guess we can't know for sure because we've only see the intro, but dev comments implies no. I'm worried they'll do the same with dq as well. Heck he said it has the moogle bits because the assistant director insisted on it even though they didn't want to.
I think one of two things happened. Either they made a focus tested game to follow trends, Sony's partnership on"how to make hits for dummies" etc to just make "what's popular with the kids today" and brand it ff, and financially I guess that worked... Or..
yoship wanted to make a new IP and had some idea for a dark fantasy Platinum style game and either management said "no, you're going to make more ff" or he was clever enough to know they'd say that, because that's exactly what they did to the Xeno guys who are now monolith, so he made his game and called it ff with a handful of ff elements to please management that really has no clue anyway.
And it could be awesome but could have been a big new IP rather than trying to ride the ff name. Like with kh where Nomura said it was never supposed to be ff x Disney they just did that for marketing to ride the ff name. It's kinda sad, and it's kind of sad it works with the masses that just sticking a label on it is the difference between good and bad. But it does. This game wouldn't have the super fans it does if it were a new IP, but would still have a big hype cycle regardless because like you said "new dark fantasy Platinum-like ip from Square" is kind of a head turning e3 teaser.
@NEStalgia As you all say, it's not just the tone but the gameplay. I haven't played VII Remake but people complain about it. In XV, gameplay is also real-time and the AI makes it almost impossible to use magic without damaging your allies but I found it fun to map spells to the front buttons, fire to red A button, ice to blue X button, thunder to yellow Y button, and not just use brute force but as much strategy as possible. The game runs smooth on Xbox One X and better on Series X. On the other hand, XVI looks less Final Fantasy and more hack and slash, doesn't it?
@Banjo- I thought FF7 Remake was sh*t but everyone else seemed to love it 🤣 every change they made was for the worse imo. I wasn’t a huge fan of the combat in FF7 Remake but I will say it felt better to me than 16’s.
Anyone know when FF16 reviews are dropping? Games out this week so must be soon. I’m very interested to see how this will score.
@Banjo- well it’s reviewing well surprise surprise. I have no faith in mainstream reviewers. A game with brain dead button mashing summon battles and QTE’s is getting 9 and 10’s.
@NEStalgia Would you believe the reviewers are saying the RPG elements are shallow? You know, kinda like we told everyone from the start. But hey, we're just raging gatekeepers, what do we know?
@Fenbops@SplooshDmg Yes, I noticed that all the reviews have been released. Among the praises, these are some more negative but specific bits I found on Metacritic:
"If you don’t think MMO-style fetch quests are the pinnacle of game design, you’re probably going to feel the same way." (GLHF on Sports Illustrated)
"Final Fantasy XVI tells a fantastic and entertaining story but many of the gameplay systems are quite frankly very dull." (Gamer.no)
"Final Fantasy 16 is a rich, visually arresting spectacle with engrossing set pieces let down by a bloated story and stifled combat." (Videogamer)
"The new combat system only becomes good after many hours and the fetch quests are an insult." (The Enemy)
"A smart combat system straining under the weight of a characterful but ponderous pseudo-medieval soap opera, with some of the grandest bosses and dullest sidequests in Final Fantasy history." (Eurogamer)
"Final Fantasy XVI delivers on the 'action' side of its action-RPG formula." (Digital Trends)
EDIT: Interestingly, some praise the story while criticising the gameplay and vice versa.
@Fenbops@Banjo- In reality, I'm sure it's a quality game for what it's trying to be. However, NES and I have been pretty critical that this game really was never an RPG, and apparently it isn't. Is that a problem? Maybe. It's more just... Weird. Seeing a huge legacy franchise just toss away basically all of its RPG credentials and set out on a quest to just be something different. To me, it's just disappointing. Robert Ramsey even said in the comments on Push, "It really depends on whether you like action games — that's the bottom line" and really, I don't enjoy action games. I can tolerate action RPGs, but the DmC/Bayonetta/Ninja Gaidens of the world are a hard pass for me. Not trying to crap on the game, but I just can't shake my frustration with the series change in direction.
@SplooshDmg I’m the same. My other problem is from the impression I got from the demo, which I know is only a small slice of the game, the gameplay didn’t feel especially good and that’s what this game hinges on. Those boss battles in the demo especially are incredibly dull to play, visually nice but the gameplay was awful. From the reviews I’m seeing they’re spectacular and thrilling. Didn’t feel it to me. I’ve seen other games criticised for QTE’s and watching more than playing, but for some reason it’s celebrated here. The normal battles just felt like any other action game, nothing special, to me anyway.
I dunno man. Sometimes I wonder am I burnt out or is the bar just lower now? Are big games like this even for me anymore. I’ll play something like this and think it’s nothing special then look around online and everyone seems to be gushing about it and reviewers are awarding 9’s and 10’s.
@Fenbops Beats me, I'm still stoked for tons of new games, but I just have a really hard time biting on the 'games as movies zomg action' thing. Starfield has me so fired up for a new 'actual RPG' that I've decided to fire up Pillars of Eternity again. Now this... This is peak gaming. This is just everything an RPG can and should be, and recommend you play it if you never have. So, really truthfully, I don't want to take away from the people that are loving FFXVI, more power to them. However, it gets old when you have valid criticisms of a legacy franchise's new release, and the masses on the internet just point you to the nearest nursing home.
@SplooshDmg@NEStalgia It seems that that's what the game really is. I was expecting a switch to action and a dark theme but the lack of depth is an additional disappointment.
@Fenbops I have realised how pointless professional reviews have become and I don't mean just this game because I haven't played it but Breath of the Wild and its sequel are a great example of exaggerated and ridiculous praise.
@Banjo- I feel if this was on Xbox it wouldnt have scored so well. I think they’d say something like linear generic action game with outdated game mechanics fails to move the franchise forward 🤣 that’s just the conspiracy theorist in me though…..
@Fenbops Well, look at the hate Starfield is getting from certain people. What would they say if it was a Sony or a Nintendo exclusive? 😁 Those considering Tears of the Kingdom a more worthy candidate for Game of The Year have me scratching my head 🫤. Wasn't that indie cats game a Game of the Year candidate while it was a PS exclusive? 🤪 I believe that Xbox players are less noisy, anyway. Sometimes, it seems that we don't exist but they are millions of us playing on Xbox and on Game Pass.
Update: Microsoft just confirmed at Microsoft FTC trial that Sony paid Square Enix to keep Final Fantasy XVI away from Xbox, if there was any doubt about the reason why it's not on Xbox.
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Topic: PXB gamers, what do we think about the FF16 demo?
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