Phil Spencer: Xbox Series X Being 'Held Back' Is A Meme Created By Console War Obsessives

That's what I and others have repeated on several threads. Xbox One and Series X run Windows and Microsoft have developed scalable development tools and that's why they have enhanced games for Xbox One X and for Series X so fast and easily.

There is only one thing that this gen adds that could induce a handicap for a dev that decides to target XOne: the hard drive speed. It’s not a graphical thing, but loading has to be predictable for a seamless no-loading game.

Having loading screens at all, even if they are 2 seconds, breaks immersion, if you need a 30s loading screen on the One, you will likely have that immersion breaking 2s screen on the XSX, although those could always be “masked”, the mask is even more likely to stretch any gameplay slowdown to be consistent in all consoles. (Corner squeezing for all versions of the same game, for example.)

But to be fair, most third party games will also target PC, so they will be held back by the fact most PCs still likely have at least one spinner drive, especially for the gigantic games library.

TLDR: graphics won’t suffer unless the dev is super lazy. Some game streamlining and loading situations might be held back. Not as extreme as neither camp makes it sound.

@Tharsman They'll choose to sacrifice Xbox One versions in every way, loading times, resolution and performance. See how many current-gen games run awfully on Xbox One and decently on Xbox One X. That's in the same generation, more so with a next-generation console available. Xbox One S is going to be the new victim of Digital Foundry's articles in 2020 and 2021. Nothing new, we've seen this with Xbox 360 and PS3 when Xbox One and PS4 arrived. Next-gen consoles won't be held back but current-gen consoles will struggle like last-gen consoles in 2013-2014 when cross-generation games were released.

@BlueOcean what I meant is, some game design sacrifices (relating to loading and streaming data) will be done to core game design, essentially “holding the game back.”

Graphics are easily scalable, so I have next to zero concern on games not looking fantastic on the XSX.

And of course, multi plat games will look best on XSX.

Phil Spencer is absolutely correct on this. The "held back" terminology is something I read a lot on PlayStation centered sites and with PS fanboy comments. It was clear from the start that Microsoft would be developing full force with full attention on the Series X. Its not like PS5 games are made on the console anyway... All games are made on Computers to start with in the first place.
Great of Phil to call out the nonsense fanboy talk at its worst.

@Tharsman I understood your message but I wanted to give a comprehensive answer and remember how it has been over the years. I agree about the SSD, no game will be designed around the SSD exclusively but will be a major feature that Xbox One and HDD PCs will not enjoy. The extra speed of PS5 SSD over Series X SSD will be almost anecdotal.

Well I have seen top end ultra pc run the same games as mid range pc and also with modding and the ultra pc stuff looked a generation a head, so it’s definitely possible if the time and effort is put in.
The only thing is the super fast SSD, if you really want to take advantage it and produce a game taking full advantage of it.

@BlueOcean agree but nitpick: It's possible that Scorn and The Medium will be designed with SSD in mind, since they are XSX exclusives. I can't think of a genre that would benefit more from instant loads than horror games, having you instantly teleport or entire environments morph on you... needless to say, I'm extremely intrigued by both those games.

It's also possible whatever that Initiative studio is working on wont see light of day for another 3 years, and been working with XSX specifically in mind. True that MS will make all their first party games available on PC, but they can always slap an "SSD required" to the minimum requirement list (its just not likely we will see such requirement yet from big multi-plat publishers.)

@pip_muzz If you read recent xbox wire blog, Halo Infinite is built natively for xbox series x.

Side topic that might be best for the forums (and might revisit there on a better thought-out post.)

At the start of the current generation, the PS4 was superior in every way the the X1, not only was the xbox launch botched by self-inflicted wounds, the hardware was simply inferior.

During that time, PS4 players bragged how they made the smartest choice: buy cheaper console, with fastest performance. Third party games running at 1080p on PS4 with the X1 version running at 720p. It was both, snobbish pride for us PS4 gamers and a very satisfying taunt at those that forgave Microsoft for all the horrible things they attempted to do to the industry. Childish, I know, but still.

Anyways, eventually MS released the X1X, and Sony released the PS4Pro... and the Pro was slower than the X1X, and louder... and could not play 4K blurays... and they both cost the same...

The tune among PS4 players changed. Most simply going on how "graphics are not everything". I never considered myself a hypocrite, I did get a X1X to play 4k blurays but rarely played it for many other reasons. After all, most those older games didnt get enhancements to run at higher res on either the X or the Pro.

Now we about to do a full gen leap, and its no longer ambiguous, the XSX is superior, and louder than ever, the PS4 players are screaming how 3D audio and fast loading are what maters, how 30fps is all anyone ever will need... And I feel like... really guys?

I meant it when I felt games were better on the PS4, and I still mean it, and that is why I now play any game (released in the last 2 years) on the X1X, will be buying an XSX at launch, and play all cross-plat games on that device.

Edit: Unless I really feel playing from the toilet enhances the experience, in that case, Switch all the way.

@Tharsman I posted that a few days ago, I think I was answering you but I'm not sure. The Initiative's big game, if they're making more than one, will be a Series X exclusive and will not run on Xbox One. I think that you may be right and those Series X exclusives will have the SSD requirement for the Windows version. Series X exclusive games might be designed with SSD as a defining feature.

@Tharsman Because they are hypocrites. The 3D audio is also a Series X feature with a different name and the extra speed of the SSD will be anecdotal since the SSD of Series X is fast enough and has Velocity Architecture built in with no bottlenecks.

They say, however, that the variable and lower clocks/CUs of the CPU and GPU of PS5 that share a common and limited power pool won't matter. Really?

What do you think they would say if PS5 was more powerful than Series X? The opposite, exactly what they said about PS4, when they were right. The most ridiculous thing I've heard is that 30 FPS is all that any gamer would probably need and they don't criticise it because it's an artistic decision or some other ridiculous excuse. One of them wrote that only Digital Foundry's analyses can see the difference between 30 and 60 FPS. I must be an alien.

If they choose PS5 because they can't enjoy anything else, that's fine, but reading all that nonsense is cringeworthy.

No one believes these people and their marketing.

@Tharsman Before the PS4 and Xbox One launched so are plenty of people pointing to the fact that the Xbox One had a ESRAM and a 0.15 faster CPU as compensating for the faster ram in the PS4. Of course when the Digital foundry type analysis hit it was clear which one was better. A lot of that disadvantage was caused by reserving power for the camera and features like apps snapping whilst playing games. We are still in the phase where enough things haven’t been clarified that people can hope things that probably won’t have a huge impact to make the difference.

@BlueOcean If the game is scaling between 4, 6 and 12 Teraflop GPUs and between Jaguar and Risen CPU‘S A little bit of fluctuation in clock rates in what will remain the second most powerful system isn’t going to have a huge impact.

Caught up in device competition? I do agree with him that people get caught up in it but it's the companies that stoke the competition, and recently none more than Microsoft.

@Ryall PS5 will probably be fine running most games but that's not what we were discussing but how suddenly all that really matters about PS5 is the SSD and "Tempest" audio while overlooking the CPU and GPU disadvantages. At the very least, it's hypocritical.

@pip_muzz @BlueOcean

Exactly. I’ve been preaching this in these comment sections for awhile now too. Glad to see Phil confirm it.

Not sure why some people can’t wrap their head around the fact that this has been going on in PC gaming since.....well forever, basically. And these consoles are like mini PCs.

I think it depends on the PC scene, when HDD PCs are fully replaced for gaming by SSD PCs that would be when XB1 holds back Series X. But I'd imagine by that point XB1 support will have already been dropped.

@SuperNintendoMii in the past, sure. I disagree now. I mean there’s the regular competition things but all three companies have be rather respectful compared to the past. Sony admitted Nintendo was necessary because it has a younger starting age demographic, MS published on Nintendo and had bee been big proponents this gen for crossplay. Sony is using Microsoft’s cloud servers and helping share tech for MS. Sakurai actually told people to get an Xbox to play Banjo. I just don’t see it like before.

@zane547 I agree. Besides which all three companies kind of operate in a different space these days. And that’s good makes for great innovations and customer friendly practices

@zane547 Who said Sony? We mean Sony fanboys 😅, the same that worshipped PS4's superiority. Of course, Sony is going to minimise the weaknesses of PS5 and that's not hypocritical, it's business and marketing.

So Capcom is lying or Phill is in Damage Control mode?

As if I couldn’t love Phil any more lol! The smug superiority of a lot of Sony fans is indeed tiresome. They never miss an opportunity to spread FUD about anything Xbox, even with clear pro consumer moves like the ones Xbox is making. The goal posts are always moving to suit them. They care more about being in an exclusive club than video games.

They’ve only said they’ll support Xbox One for the next year, maybe two. That’s it. Yet somehow this is going to hold back next gen? Laughable. If a game has the ability to work on Xbox One, why deny gamers that don’t necessarily have access to the latest hardware for a certain amount of time? Games rarely take full advantage of new hardware for the first couple years anyways.

@mousieone well yes they have kinda mellowed compared to the past but the last few months Microsoft has really been trying to get people's attention with '120/60fps, 4k, reduced load times, worlds most powerful console'. Sony, in comparison, has been rather mute.

As for Nintendo, they just do their own thing. They never even bother to mention the other two.

@zane547 No problem. Most of them are ignorant, anyway. They don't have any idea what they're talking about because they haven't played on other consoles and haven't done any research about other consoles' features, services, specifications, games, etc.

@OtterX They don't give some thought to what happens every generation with cross-gen games.

@SuperNintendoMii well yes but that’s just their gimmick, so they are going to push it. You’ll hear a a lot about Sony’s dual sense controller in the coming months too. That’s a bit different than the old console wars of the past, yes?

As for Nintendo, as I said Sakurai actually mentioned Xbox so they do mention other consoles. And Nintendo and Sega are really the ones that started the console wars in the first place. Yes, Nintendo’s changed a lot since then, but let’s not forget it’s Nintendo’s own arrogance and blind devotion to form factor that cause PlayStation to enter the market in the first place.

These days they are all in different places as kind of chasing different goals. I think it’s pretty awesome how they’ve evolved, but it seriously took each one of them to have a failed console over the past two generations to really figure it out.

@mousieone
That's true! All of it.

@Makina Capcom, based on what we have been told, is looking to leverage the SSD for a completely load-screen-free game with RE8, something they cant do atm on a PS4 or X1. I do wonder if they will also require an SSD of specific speed on PC, though.

@Tharsman I think that point of "Develop with SSD in mind" is something that only full exclusive titles will have, since multiplatforms that intent to be released on PC will have to be optimized for regular HDDs, so I don't think this is somehing that Xbox One is holding back, but devices with HDD in general are, including PCs.

@duhsoares21 Games released for PC that want to capture as wide a market as possible. But it is not out of the question for a game dev to limit its market by requiring SSDs. For decades we have had PC games that will not run unless you have very expensive video card configurations. A fast SSD requirement actually would be cheaper than most video card requirements.

@Tharsman Cyberpunk will require DirectX 12. I wouldn't be surprised to see PC games with SSD as a requirement very soon because upcoming third-party games will be for Windows, Series X and PS5.

@duhsoares21 Anyone who built a gaming PC after 2019 without using an SSD as the boot drive has got their priorities wrong.

@Ryall a lot of people these days buy their gaming PCs pre-built, and a non-insignificant portion of those are laptops with decent but not great dedicated CPUs, and either spinner HD or a very small SSD for the OS and a spinner for most else.

@Tharsman I was looking for a laptop this year but I'm going to wait because of money and all the good laptops I checked have SSD.