Topic: project scorpio

So what do you all think? I would say its a good time to be a Xbox gamer and i will be putting my money down!

I may be holding off in awhile, not sure. I may want an NX.

Christmas 2017 is a long way away yet. A lot can happen in this landscape in 18 months. At the MOMENT, theyve got my money, we'll see.

@crippyd: They've certainly laid down the gauntlet to Sony that's for sure! Plus with it being another 18 months down the line and fully compatible with the Xbox One it does feel like a solution that should please everyone. I'm even coming round to the notion of games coming to Windows 10 now that I've bit the bullet and gotten a laptop capable of running Forza, QB etc. It's a great eco-system they're building and I hope they keep it up. Colour me impressed

Waiting to learn more about PS4 Neo but right now, out of Neo, NX and Scorpio, MS has way more of my attention.

18 months is a long time and 6tflops to provide what they are promising is not a lot despite how powerful that sounds - the nvidia GTX 1080 is around 7tflops and runs games like the witcher 3, division etc at 4k 35-45fps so whether it would run Cyberpunk or some game like that at 4k, I don't know - Forza 8 (or whatever) yes. I guess like every game we get now, it depends on the settings - 4k/60fps could be possible in those game by turning down the shadow effects, the lighting, the reflection quality a bit etc etc until you reach a point that the frame rate is attainable and maintainable.

18 months though is a long time. I can see why MS announced now - for us XB1 owners - especially those who bought in the past year. Bringing out a much more powerful machine so soon after people had just bought an XB1 can cause anger - especially as the new machine is very likely to get its own software - No way will Oculus Rift run Fallout 4 VR on the XB1 - the XB1 has a tough job of running Fallout 4 at 1080/30 consistently - let alone 1200/90 and then add in the motion control for the headset too. Obviously all XB1 games, inc BC XB360 games will run on the Scorpio - Like 10,15 even 20yr old games run on a top of the range PC - its just PC - they don't have generations either. Xbox will end up being the same (at least that's the 'vision' at the moment) Games won't come with XB360, XB1 on the box but just Xbox and you will have to flip it over to read - min requirement Scorpio or above. I could be reading into a bit much but Scorpio could indicate their planned release window Oct22-Nov21 although I would be happy if that was 2016 not 2017.

The one thing that does concern me is that the Neo is expected a year before Scorpio. 12months!! It may not be as powerful - it doesn't have to be, Sony has stated its just a enhanced PS4. If it was as powerful as the Scorpio, in a few years, when games get difficult to run on PS4, they would run on Neo but then PS4 owners would be angry with Sony etc. A year after Scorpio, Sony can bring out PS5 - 5years after PS4 (I know its only 2yrs after Neo but Neo is just an enhanced PS4 remember) that is a lot more powerful than the Scorpio. MS will yet again be stuck for at least 2-3yrs behind Sony in terms of 'most powerful' - running games at 4k/60 with all the bells and whistles etc.

If MS really wanted to put the pressure on Sony, the Scorpio would launch a lot closer to Neo. Will people wait 18months for a more powerful Xbox when Neo is delivering 1080p+, VR etc now and the XB1 is 720p? (Frostbite 3 runs at 720/60 on XB1 - games like Mirrors Edge, Battlefield 1, Titanfall 2 - Mass Effect will most likely be 30fps and 900p but could be 1080/60 on Neo) Will MS bring the launch forward if Slim and XB1 sales are still behind PS4 and Neo is selling even better? Would they reconsider if sales drop off when NX launches - another 6months+ of being the lowest selling console? Its all well and good offering 4k streaming and a 4k UHD Bluray Player but if Neo offers that and much better gaming experience for a £100 more (maybe the same price as the 2TB model but has a 500GB HDD) then what is the reason to buy the Slim?

18 months is a long time...

@BAMozzy As you say, 18 months is a long time. Surely MS will be keeping a close eye on the market and make the Scorpio as good as it can when Sony launch the Neo so that it comfortably kicks it out the park and then have plenty in reserve to compete against the next PS?

Anyone expecting the Scorpio to be 'iterative' - like the Neo, I think will certainly be disappointed. There is NO WAY you bring out a 4x the power machine and restrict it to playing the same games, the same content etc that the vastly inferior machine can cope with, 4 years after the release of that console that, lets be honest here, is already 'struggling' to deliver a full HD (full being 1080p) and consistent yet minimum 30fps - with games already having to run at 720p now. You don't bring out an 'enhanced' console that late into the lifecycle, with that much power and limit it to games/content that MUST also run on the XB1. What ae MS going to do, say to a developer we have this amazing high powered console that can tun your game beautifully but you can't release it because it won't run on the XB1?? Of course not!!!

The way I envisaged it working (and the way they seem to suggest in the video) was the same game would work on all 3 systems. On Xbox One you'd (for example) get 720p/30 and on the Scorpio you'd get 1080/60 but the underlying game would be the same... (like Min PC specs vs Recommended). If they don't do something like that then they will fragment the market and limit the potential sales of new games.

@stylon: I'm with you on this. It is likely that min/Max specs on games will be current xbox one (min) to Scorpio/scorpio+ in the future for the same game with 4k or vr enabled

Do you honestly think that MS would tell a developer they can't release a game on Scorpio if it can't run on XB1? Its 4 years into the lifecycle of the XB1 by the time this comes out and maybe for the first year or 2 the games will be on both but their is no chance that MS will limit the Scorpio's library because games can't run on the much inferior hardware. No chance will the Oculus Rift run on the XB1 not well enough to be worth playing so that whole set of games will be available on one system but not the other. I guess they could have a Samsung Galaxy Gear type headset and run a very scaled down version but then that would obviously have to change the coding to utilise some form of gyroscopic accelerometer for movement - Kinect is far too laggy to use and could of course be detrimental to VR if it can't run games well enough! If you can add VR games to one system, then you can add non-VR games too - why not? Do you think Developers would want sub 720/30 games being released or having to scale back their vision for both systems just because their original vision would only run on Scorpio? It will be like DVR, 'yes we said thats what we envisioned but we are not prepared to sacrifice the games to that degree or sell you a product that will not run as intended'. At this point in time, probably every game will run on both but 18 months down the line, with developers actually having all this new technology in their hands - the new chips, tools etc that haven't even released to the public, the games 2-3years are certainly going to struggle. I don't see 6tflops being sufficient for what they are claiming. That's OK if you are not being ambitious, cutting corners etc (like Forza 6 does on XB1), creating games in the same way as XB360 era but just upping up the resolution with basic lighting, shadows etc but 3rd party developers, developing games that will push the high end PC's that will struggle to run in 4k with the settings turned up - (the best GPU available is the GTX1080 and that's a beast 7tflops, lots of CU's Shaders etc but that can't run the Witcher 3 at 4k/60 but around 38fps) so how will it cope with Cyberpunk which is supposed to be bigger, more densely populated etc etc - I bet that will drop below 30fps at 4k unless you drop all the shadows, reflections, particle effects etc down to try and boost frame rate performance.

It may be good PR to say we are not leaving anyone behind but as soon as the XB1 launched, it left the XB360 behind. MS said they are not interested in making 'iterative' consoles so at some point the XB1 is going to get left behind - it doesn't have the power to last. What will MS do then? Say to developers you have to release an XB1 version - even if it is terrible and pi$$ off the XB1 owners? Stop them releasing games on Scorpio and pi$$ off the Scorpio owners? of course not PC owners with the same level of GPU/performance as the XB1 are already getting left behind - they can't admit that the Scorpio will have its own software etc - not before they launch the Slim and want 18months of XB1 sales!!

I am honestly more excited for this then Sony's stupid VR. I will be keeping a close eye on it.

@Tasuki:
It definitely feels like there is an even split between those who are intrigued by VR and those who want nothing to do with it. I'm in the no thanks camp myself. If Sony is going to throw around money it really cant afford to lose I'd have preferred they go all out on a machine lke MS is with this.

@Gamer83: I will say that its interesting seeing gaming companies now trying to diversify rather then let's just do what the other guy is doing. Yeah I know that MS will come out with their own VR flash in the pan gimmick and Sony is bringing out the PS Neo or whatever its called but it seems like those two examples they are just doing it cause the other guy is doing but not like in the past if that makes sense.

@BAMozzy: I do. I think developers won't be able to abandon the One until the Scorpio is succeeded. Then it'll fade into irrelevance until it is retired. I think this is the new cycle: All consoles, on the same architecture, with infinite backwards compatibility, and 2 generations of ensured support. And I'm happy with it.

@Tasuki: Everyone's doing VR potentially save Nintendo, and Sony's doing a refresh too. If anything, I think they had a slightly better lineup this E3. Now the software on the other hand...

@Vincent294:
I think we've kind of had this discussion before Project Scorpio was made official but I believe you mentioned you game on PC. So as a PC gamer, are you on board with Project Scorpio or are you just going to stick with the X1 until it's finished and then stick with just a PC?

@Gamer83: I'm cool with Project Scorpio, no need to go all-in and build a PC in addition to my laptop. Now if they opened the flood gates and let developers abandon the One I'd go PlayStation. If everyone decided consoles should only last 3 years, I'd definitely abandon them too. As I've always said, without guaranteed support, consoles are walled-garden PCs (maybe a little less so with mods now). The only thing to keep me at that point is exclusives, though that might not be too big a deal for Microsoft with Windows Play Anywhere.

@Vincent294: Lets be honest. Phil Spencer has said that MS isn't interested in iterative hardware. If this was a more powerful XB1, like the Neo is to the PS4, why wait until next holiday? If its just a more powerful XB1, bring it out this holiday and compete with the Neo. It doesn't matter if some games aren't 'enhanced' it just an XB1 - maybe the developers can patch in some higher settings - maybe not outputting to 4k but 1440 - that's going to look a lot different to the current games at 900[p and 720p. Why wait til the XB1 is coming up to it's retirement age - consoles are expected to last 5yrs - this is at yr4. What will happen at yr6 when the Scorpio is just 2yrs old and games won't run smoothly at 720/30 on XB1 - not release the game on Scorpio? What a waste!

I don't think 'consoles' will last just 3-4yrs in the future. I think that the technology leapt much quicker over the past 3yrs that made the current gen age much quicker. Sony/MS had to release their PS4/XB1 to play the upcoming games - games like Watchdogs, Witcher 3 etc but that was before all the new technology was ready or its specs/capabilities known. We heard a lot about DX12 (API) but that hasn't really benefited the XB1 because the old hardware isn't designed for it. VR was very much in its infancy too so its hardware requirements were unknown. More and more people are getting 4k TV's too. The new 14/16nm FinFET chips have been designed with much better architecture, more efficiency and with these things in mind. All of this has pushed the gaming technology further than the previous 5-6 years. its the fact that technology from a lot of different areas (Software, internal and external hardware) all advanced in a very short time. DX12 for example is a much bigger revolution than DX11 was from DX10. The Chips which are used in CPU/GPU's are designed with this (and similar like Vulcan) in mind and of course VR has come along now which again has pushed technology into the next phase. In the next 5-10yrs, its difficult to see technology 'jump' as much as it has in the previous 3yrs. DX13 is, I expect likely to be a more refined DX12, HBM2 will probably replace GDDR5x which will speed up the data transfer and VR is likely to get more resolution and possibly smaller, lighter headsets - maybe even wireless but the point is, its not the 'jump' and all at once like the last year or so. I can't see the need for greater resolution than 4k happening in the next 10ys from a console perspective either so that's going to set the next standard and therefore the next 'gen' of consoles could last longer than 3-4yrs

Why would a manufacturer upgrade a console if they can deliver 4k/60 and full VR? If the games get to the point of 'dropping' in visuals/frame rates significantly below the competition, then manufacturers will upgrade. Lets say PS5 and Scorpio are both delivering 4k gaming at the same visual level but the PS5 is more powerful, Why would MS upgrade? Games look and play identically so no need. Its likely that MS would need to upgrade sooner because when games push the technology to the limit, the lower powered console will struggle first but whilst its not struggling then there is no need! Hence I don't see that consoles will constantly require a 3-4 year cycle.

A really interesting interview to Phil Spencer about Xbox One S and Scorpio:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-06-15-xbox-boss-phil-s...